E153(MR2 Turbo) - Gear Box Swap - Plus other Options

Started by Gaz2405, January 12, 2023, 11:53

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Gaz2405

I'm in two minds about what to do with my gearbox.

I'm currently running an unknown power figure on my built 2zz turbo until I get to a rolling road, but thought to be north of 300bhp, with my high boost map aiming for over 400hp. Torque should be around 275ftl at this.

Currently I'm on the standard 6 speed FL Roadster box.

I was playing with the idea of an Evora Box, but I've since let that box go.

Options are:

1. SSC or Jubu gears in my box. Should take upto around 295ft/lb Budget cost around £1500
2. E153 Gearbox, but two ways of doing it:

a) MWR Kit (includes, driveshafts that fit normal roadster hubs(1000hp rated), flywheel, gearbox mounts, cable mount, bell housing adapter plate)

Costs excluding Gear Box £5k including importing £6k in total say. Straight bolt in option.

b) MWR flywheel and adapter plate (£1k) Make my own mounts (£100), E153 Hubs and drive shafts (£1000), modify Adjustable arms for the rear to suit (£750).

Total excluding Gearbox £2850. But considerably more modification required.

3. DSG Conversion: Box (say £750 to £1200, depending on DQ250 OR DQ500), Bell housing adapter (£500) I'd look to buy a cheap one for another similar size block then make my own. Custom shafts (£750), flywheel/crank adapter (£500). My ECU has the capability of running the DSG side of things. I'd probably have to add another £1k as contingency on this I think.

Budget cost including Box and contingency £3,950.



Is there anything I've missed? has anyone else ran anything similar or selling and E153 kit........

1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Nvy


JB21

Could you not fit a sequential designed for the 2ZZ Elise/Exige?

Gaz2405

Quote from: JB21 on January 12, 2023, 12:28Could you not fit a sequential designed for the 2ZZ Elise/Exige?

I'd looked into that, but you're talking £8kish and they don't provide a power rating.
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Petrus

Quote from: Gaz2405 on January 12, 2023, 11:53I'm in two minds about what to do with my gearbox.

I'm currently running an unknown power figure on my built 2zz turbo until I get to a rolling road, but thought to be north of 300bhp, with my high boost map aiming for over 400hp. Torque should be around 275ftl at this.

Currently I'm on the standard 6 speed FL Roadster box.



What is the lfe expectancy of that box with your power?
I remember that you were happy with the gearing?

Is it in any way feaseable to get a reserve set up and swap when something goes? Would be by FAR easiest and cheapest.

JB21

Quote from: Gaz2405 on January 12, 2023, 12:32I'd looked into that, but you're talking £8kish and they don't provide a power rating.

Yeah just had a look myself, very expensive. Could you not somehow mount K20 box on there?

Gaz2405

Quote from: Petrus on January 12, 2023, 12:42What is the lfe expectancy of that box with your power?
I remember that you were happy with the gearing?

Is it in any way feaseable to get a reserve set up and swap when something goes? Would be by FAR easiest and cheapest.

Unknown a few have run them at that for a while in the states, not very long on track I'd have thought.
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Gaz2405

Quote from: JB21 on January 12, 2023, 13:06Yeah just had a look myself, very expensive. Could you not somehow mount K20 box on there?

This had crossed my mind, but again similar cost.

One thing to consider which I haven't put above is the cost of an LSD for the DSG.
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Nvy

K20 box is weak too, I want to mount dsg but I cant source one locally? Where did you get your pricing from?

Gaz2405

Quote from: Nvy on January 12, 2023, 13:14K20 box is weak too, I want to mount dsg but I cant source one locally? Where did you get your pricing from?

It would be a second hand unit, eBay and breakers.
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Petrus

Quote from: Gaz2405 on January 12, 2023, 13:07Unknown a few have run them at that for a while in the states, not very long on track I'd have thought.

Since you have to look for anu alternative anyway, would not hurt to look into this too no?!

Gaz2405

Quote from: Petrus on January 12, 2023, 13:29Since you have to look for anu alternative anyway, would not hurt to look into this too no?!

Yes, I intend to run mine until it gives up anyway, but want to start looking into alternatives.
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Petrus

Quote from: Gaz2405 on January 12, 2023, 13:31Yes, I intend to run mine until it gives up anyway, but want to start looking into alternatives.

Seems sensible. When/if at that point you can still decide but with first hand experience.

threepot

This might sound a tad boring.... and I'm not "dull at parties" etc - With your ECU Master, you can have 2 boost modes on a switch, and all sorts of other stuff.

Maybe run 1 mode - I'll call it "show off" mode.... loads of boost, quick blast round the block in the dry weather etc - oh my, isn't it fast and bordering lethal  :)) lets keep it pointing windscreen pointing forwards.... my passenger just stained the seat.

But then 2nd Mode - "realistic" mode.... bring the boost in softer so its not a transmission buster, keep it all sensible, and it would be loads more drivable on the track trying to put power down on the way out of the turns. Less tyre munting, less going home at 11am because this or that shizzle broke this time.

Buy your spare gearbox, open it up, make sure its not a money box before you start... when the original gearbox pops, take the buster apart and see exactly which part let go... maybe get someone to make you a hardcore shaft of gear etc to bandage that issue.

Unfortunately I live in a world of MQB platform VAG trash for a daily living. What ever you think you could possibly solve with a DSG gearbox, you will find it will bring a whole collection of new problems along with it. But if you need any contacts who specialise in DSG rebuilds, I have quite a few business cards in my drawer of guys who just do that all day everyday with about 6 weeks of backlog cars outside in the queue!

Gaz2405

Quote from: threepot on January 12, 2023, 14:12This might sound a tad boring.... and I'm not "dull at parties" etc - With your ECU Master, you can have 2 boost modes on a switch, and all sorts of other stuff.

Maybe run 1 mode - I'll call it "show off" mode.... loads of boost, quick blast round the block in the dry weather etc - oh my, isn't it fast and bordering lethal  :)) lets keep it pointing windscreen pointing forwards.... my passenger just stained the seat.

But then 2nd Mode - "realistic" mode.... bring the boost in softer so its not a transmission buster, keep it all sensible, and it would be loads more drivable on the track trying to put power down on the way out of the turns. Less tyre munting, less going home at 11am because this or that shizzle broke this time.

Buy your spare gearbox, open it up, make sure its not a money box before you start... when the original gearbox pops, take the buster apart and see exactly which part let go... maybe get someone to make you a hardcore shaft of gear etc to bandage that issue.

Unfortunately I live in a world of MQB platform VAG trash for a daily living. What ever you think you could possibly solve with a DSG gearbox, you will find it will bring a whole collection of new problems along with it. But if you need any contacts who specialise in DSG rebuilds, I have quite a few business cards in my drawer of guys who just do that all day everyday with about 6 weeks of backlog cars outside in the queue!

Yes Ecu can have basic switch or a rotary switch for different boost levels.

I'm just in the process of setting it up, Ill most likely go with low boost (wastegate pressure) 15psi(ish) then a 20psi setting.

In all honesty I think the SSC or Jubu gears should should do me as the 2zz produces less torque than the equivalent 1zz turbo.

The C60's usually go on 3rd and 4th and sometime the final drive. So might just get them in, next time I'm feeling flush for when it does go.

All the other options (apart from the MWR E153 kit), will require changing hubs or custom shafts, which is time as well as money.
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Dev

It has been reported that the weak points of the transmission when adding torque above 180 in a sprint is the 3rd gear followed by the open diff. This was discovered by drag racers in Puerto Rico but it is mostly cumulative damage until it lets go. These guys reported that the transmission would hold up well even under high torque on a fresh transmission but eventually cumulative damage would occur until something breaks. They found it more economical to either fix the transmission or replace it when the event happened instead of addressing the issue but that was a long time ago when there were not many options.






Gaz2405

Quote from: Dev on January 12, 2023, 14:56It has been reported that the weak points of the transmission when adding torque above 180 in a sprint is the 3rd gear followed by the open diff. This was discovered by drag racers in Puerto Rico but it is mostly cumulative damage until it lets go. These guys reported that the transmission would hold up well even under high torque on a fresh transmission but eventually cumulative damage would occur until something breaks. They found it more economical to either fix the transmission or replace it when the event happened instead of addressing the issue but that was a long time ago when there were not many options.








Interesting, I may just start stock piling boxes!
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Dev

There were a few that were cryo treating the gears and other things but it was found out that all roads lead to a broken transmission eventually which made cheap used transmission a better alternative.
If you are not drag racing and have a strong enough LSD it's possible that you can get some practical life out of the transmission before it goes and still be economical by having a spare transmission in the ready instead of spending a fortune adapting one. There are several 2ZZ turbo cars that are in the 300hp range where the transmission is still holding up but I imagine its on borrowed time. 



threepot

Drag racing is a gearbox abuse sport, if you watch the shifts, they are as hard and fast as they can smash it.

Track driving is much smoother than that.. smoother calm driving is always faster than the angry stabbing pedal stompers.

I guess alot of it will come down to the condition of the used gearboxes your using.

Mechanical sympathy goes along way.

Gaz2405

Looks likes it going to be mechanical sympathy for a little while, until I've got some spare gears!
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0


Dev

Quote from: Gaz2405 on January 12, 2023, 21:06Just found these.......

https://www.motorsport-tools.com/quaife-toyota-mr2-spyder-celica-corolla-lotus-elise-exige-6-speed-dog-engage-gearkit.html?srsltid=AeTunco78szVTUJUFO6hEr2scsFTCSX1ARUtCgk-xlxEaR71YsBTm3r7W7g


It might be noisy but great find. I was actually going to suggest a Quaife LSD but the OEM one might be alright since it is the open diff that is reported to break with added power.


ChrisGB

I think those dog boxes need pretty regular rebuilds. They are probably harsh and noisy too!
Ex 2GR-FE roadster. Sold it. Idiot.  Now Jaguar XE-S 380. Officially over by the bins.

Gaz2405

Quote from: ChrisGB on January 13, 2023, 18:39I think those dog boxes need pretty regular rebuilds. They are probably harsh and noisy too!

Yeah, there's that to consider.

SSC gears are top of the list at the moment.
1zz turbo. Home built and home mapped.

Now 2zz turbo. Home built and home mapped

Build thread https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67004.0

Nvy

Quote from: Gaz2405 on January 13, 2023, 19:37Yeah, there's that to consider.

SSC gears are top of the list at the moment.

Let us know if you find these at a good price. Id like a set too, I refreshed my bearings but have a spare tranny to rebuild.