C2 Install & Pictures: 85,000 miles on

[spynish]

Hi man,

This is the way I have it. Have never hit it, well just once when going two people and going really fast here:

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=saltomr2toni34

But it was a very little scratch because of the jump and 2 people weight.  s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

But never more, and I have it lower than my exhaust tail pipes:



The thing is as it's behind the rear wheels, it's difficult to hit something as the whole car goes up and down before. There is always a risk with things that can go between both wheels, but have to be big things (like a big stone). In fact have passed through big stones thinking I was going to hit it and didn't.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[spit]

That's useful Spyni, thanks. It looks like the level of the centre of the exhaust tips is a good guide for the base of the IC, with the scoop angled down from there. The wheels lifting the car is a good point, but I'll have to be careful with some of the "speed cushions" around here....they can be like small mountains  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[kanujunkie]

a mate has a Caterham 7 VVC with a ground clearance of 2" and manages fine so i'd have thought you'll be ok with a bit of care

[spynish]

That's useful Spyni, thanks. It looks like the level of the centre of the exhaust tips is a good guide for the base of the IC, with the scoop angled down from there. The wheels lifting the car is a good point, but I'll have to be careful with some of the "speed cushions" around here....they can be like small mountains  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

That's what I meant saying that IC is behind rear wheels, you won't have problems with that "speed cushions", as wheels pass first, IC won't touch  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[spit]

Thanks for the tips, people. I've gone for low & angled - plenty of scope to lift it later if necessary (string line=ground level)

[LeeUK]

The scoop looks good there!  Good job.  You'll be soon known as the rabbit collector.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Just be carful not to have too much of an angle as you could cause damage to the kit by aerodynamics (I could be wrong though, negative air pressure and all that other stuff  s:? :? s:?    s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  )

[spit]

The scoop looks good there!  Good job.  You'll be soon known as the rabbit collector.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Just be carful not to have too much of an angle as you could cause damage to the kit by aerodynamics (I could be wrong though, negative air pressure and all that other stuff  s:? :? s:?    s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  )

Cheers Lee. Aerodynamics is a mystery to me, but I'll be sure to pick up the bits as they fall out of the back  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Tonight's job is to bury this oil leak once and for all. I think I may have found the reason why three separate (and all valid) attempts to seal the oil pressure sender to the aluminium block have failed. Yippee in advance! Will post the findings later.......

[dreambackup]

Thanks for the tips, people. I've gone for low & angled - plenty of scope to lift it later if necessary (string line=ground level)

Well... this IS low...

pay attention when on B roads... they're not flat...

I know because I am pretty low with the C1s and the WayDos and it scrapes when on attack mode... and this is even lower  s:? :? s:?  

kids love to see sparkles flying under cars but your heart might not  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[spit]

Well... this IS low...

Having looked again tonight, you might be right   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

I'll know for sure when the under-car oily grief is sorted and I can get off the ramps. Then we can all laugh at the next photo  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Strange: the IC scoop looks quite small off the car, but mounting at an angle it reaches down further than you think.

[Anonymous]

Watch out. I keep shredding the deflector on my Hass kit every time I hit cones at the autoX. Hard to tell from the pictures but it looks just as low, if not lower. Mine looks like twisted tissue paper now.

[spit]

Watch out. I keep shredding the deflector on my Hass kit every time I hit cones at the autoX. Hard to tell from the pictures but it looks just as low, if not lower. Mine looks like twisted tissue paper now.

Ow, painful.

Update as promised - the oil leak is fixed. My Dad (bless him) is a meticulous retired engineer with a "no fluff" brain and passion for detail. We talked through symptoms and options, and he concluded that the aluminium block thread probably hadn't been tapped out parallel, just with a primary tap. This was causing the taper thread on the sender to tighten but not seal against the taper point cut by the tap (if that makes sense!).

So, I tapped out the thread to completion and bingo - Car sounds great and no leaks:

(BTW, it gets very demoralising to see the word "Denso" when you've been under there four times to fix a leak  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  This could be my new username?)

So.....I can get cracking with the turbo air pipes at last  s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce:  

Back to the scoop height issue - off the ramps, from the front, it really doesn't look too bad:


From the back, I'm not too sure (cue the roadkill test):




I've left scope for adjustment upwards - this is as low as its gonna get!

[Anonymous]

NOOOOOO!!! SAVE ROLAND!!!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:


Glad you got that leak fixed buddy. You'll be there in no time now.

[Anonymous]

eyore is such a badass. the kit looks awesome.

[aaronjb]

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  That one made my day, thanks for that  s;) s;)  Took away the pain of getting a NIP for an SP30 a little.

[kanujunkie]

i suggested to someone else on here who was dooing this that they put a mesh rabbit catcher over the front face of the scoop, dont know what you think, this wouldn't effect the airflow at all, just think of the cost if one does go through??



bad luck Aaron  s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

[aaronjb]

i suggested to someone else on here who was dooing this that they put a mesh rabbit catcher over the front face of the scoop, dont know what you think, this wouldn't effect the airflow at all, just think of the cost if one does go through??

A pretty good idea I reckon - good for stopping flicked up stones etc too, as you wouldn't want one of those puncturing an IC, let alone any roadkill hitting it.

[spit]

i suggested to someone else on here who was dooing this that they put a mesh rabbit catcher over the front face of the scoop, dont know what you think, this wouldn't effect the airflow at all, just think of the cost if one does go through??

A pretty good idea I reckon - good for stopping flicked up stones etc too, as you wouldn't want one of those puncturing an IC, let alone any roadkill hitting it.

Excellent suggestion, gents - thanks. I'll add it to the expanding shopping list  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

I'm thinking that something mounted from scoop edge up to the front of the chassis cross member will work well (& it'll angle stuff down & clear at the same time).

[spit]

Another update - managed a whole 2 hours graft since the last post!

First up, Dan, you'll be pleased to know that no animals were harmed etc.... (turns out they're machine washable too!):


OK. Air pipes. I've had trouble aligning these because of the diagonal chassis brace, but here's the Apexi finally in place, with "reasonable" clearance all round. I've shortened the recirc pipe by 20mm to be in with a chance of getting to it:


First effort with the compressor to IC tube was misguided & useless - I just got it all wrong   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  - pipe too close to the chassis brace & exhaust (:shock:), everything under tension, and no chance with the BOV. "DOH!":


Twist it and everything falls into place....and plenty of scope for shielding the air pipes from the exhaust:


Looking at the BOV pipes in the last photo, I'm in with a chance of connecting them with a flexible hose behind the brace (the BOV is already sitting in the top hole (CAI side). Tonight's questions:

1. Is there a downside in using a long-ish hose (c. 20cm)?
2. Does it matter which end the BOV is fitted? (assuming its the right way round of course  s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )

[Two's Company]

I've been around to see Spit today while he let me use his garage and helped me change my oil. Cheers mate.   s8) s8)  

The kit looks excellent especially with it's lovely black coated finish, it is nearly there now and I'm looking forward to seeing it when it is complete.

Ste is taking time and care with the install, making sure that any problems are ironed out as he goes along, the feedback he is giving to Gas will make it much easier for anyone else who goes down this route in the future.

Now I just need to look down the back of the sofa to find enough spare change for the kit!!!   s:? :? s:?

[spit]

Firstly, my thanks are overdue to Stu, Mark, Ian, Sean, Alberto, Gas, Aaron, Dan, Tem, Russ, Steve, Liz, Lee, Barking, Dream & all of the other thread contributors. Its pretty clear to me that without such a comprehensive network of support and encouragement offered by MR2ROC I wouldn't have a cat in hell's chance with this project. Its thanks to you lot that its even got this far.
  s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:  

Just a quick update today. I'll start with the progress & finish with the questions.......heeeelp!

BOV is sorted. Rather than faff about with a kinked straight hose  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  , I've put a Samco 45 elbow in:



IC to TB is now installed too, with MAF in place:

This bit of the kit fits really well, but I had to ream out the MAF holes slightly to accommodate the allen bolts.

Plugs are swapped for a colder set, gapped at 0.8mm. The ones that came out were gapped in ft and inches!!! (note to self - check plugs a bit more often  s:oops: :oops: s:oops: ):  


I'm leaving the stock injectors for the moment - as you've probably gathered by now, this project isn't exactly being rushed, and there are some issues to sort out about the map and tuning plans.


OK, a couple of questions..... I'll stick with the engine bay stuff for the moment - there are plenty of EManage issues still to come  s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:  & I'll bore you with these tomorrow.

The C2 solution for BOV and Actuator reference lines differs from the Hass. Numerous PMs (thanks guys) are steering me towards the "keep it simple" principle of taking a tee from the VSV line to go to the BOV and then running on with another tee to the actuator.

1) will this work, or is there a better solution?

2) does it matter where in the line a boost gauge is tapped in? (I'm hoping not).

If you want a picture of a woefully grubby car to scribble your thoughts on.....


The only other under-bonnet thing to sort is the crankcase ventilation hose. Gas has kindly sent a baby filter, so I'll be venting to atmosphere & plugging the TB - the catch can idea is nice, but its a long way to travel to get back to the intake on the C2!

Thats it for now. Any specific pictures you want before the heatshields go on, let me know.

Ste

[Tem]

1) will this work, or is there a better solution?

2) does it matter where in the line a boost gauge is tapped in? (I'm hoping not).

1) I have the same with the TopSecret kit for BOV and it works.

For the actuator/wastegate/controller I'd get the boost right after the turbo, before IC or anything else and definitely before the throttle plate.


2) Well, there are different boost levels in different parts of the intake. The boost is a bit lower after every obstacle, like IC, MAF, TB. You're probably interested in the boost entering the engine, so you'll want to get it from the intake manifold or thereabouts.
(my gauge it teed from the same VSV hose where the BOV gets the boost)

[Anonymous]

The only other under-bonnet thing to sort is the crankcase ventilation hose. Gas has kindly sent a baby filter, so I'll be venting to atmosphere & plugging the TB - the catch can idea is nice, but its a long way to travel to get back to the intake on the C2!

Thats it for now. Any specific pictures you want before the heatshields go on, let me know.

Ste

Hey Spit nice work!
Dont forget to plug the bigger hole on the throttle body that leads to the valve cover. That would blow air into the engine.
The smaller one that goes to the back of the valve cover is fine as it has a valve.
I am not sure but did you get a "festo" adapter? if yes the use a small rubber hose (8mm black,5cm long in the kit). push the hose into that throttle hole and screw the festo in the rubber. This case you get the source for the BOV. lice in the pic:

[Tem]

The smaller one that goes to the back of the valve cover is fine as it has a valve.

It does have a valve, but it will NOT hold boost. The repair manual procedure to check the valve is:
(a) Blow air into the cylinder head side, and check that air passes through easily.
(b) Blow air into the intake manifold side, and check that it has a little difficulty for the air to pass through.

It works as a "one way" valve only under vacuum conditions. Boost will flow through it.

[spit]

The smaller one that goes to the back of the valve cover is fine as it has a valve.

It does have a valve, but it will NOT hold boost. The repair manual procedure to check the valve is:
(a) Blow air into the cylinder head side, and check that air passes through easily.
(b) Blow air into the intake manifold side, and check that it has a little difficulty for the air to pass through.

It works as a "one way" valve only under vacuum conditions. Boost will flow through it.

I was going to post on EManage tonight  s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:  , but I think its important to get my head around this first.

We're talking about the two vent pipes going into the valve cover. On the intake side is a large pipe that links before the throttle plate. This is no use as a vacuum source so I plug the TB hole and put a filter onto the pipe. I'm OK with it so far.....

On the exhaust side is a smaller pipe (deceptively largened because of a rubber jacket!). This connects behind/after the throttle plate, so this is where you (Gas) suggest I source the BOV and Actuator reference lines, yes?

So what do I do with the open end of the smaller pipe? Do I just leave it open?

If I understand you right, Gas, the pipe is OK because the cover is now only vented to atmosphere through the filter on the larger pipe. Is it really as easy as this, or am I missing something?

[markiii]

Ste,

I'm not really following you, so I'll start from scratch.

looking at teh car from teh rear.

the cam cover has 2 pipes coming from it, one to teh left and one to teh rear.

The one to the rear is teh cranckcase breather and connects to the throttle body itself.

You should cap this at teh throttle body, and preferably put a filter on teh crankcase end to stop any shit from being sucked in.

Next up is teh one to teh left.

there is a PCV valve screwed into teh can cover, attached to this is a hose that feeds to teh intake manifold.

The PCV allows crankcase vapours to be sucked out of teh cranckcase and burnt, this only actuates when teh intake manifold pressure is less than teh crankcase pressure. i.e when teh intake is under vaccuum.

However since your now boosted the intake manifold will spend most of it's time under positive pressure. (boost)

As Tem said the PCV is actually a 2 way valve and can open in reverse when under boost.

now if you hadn't already disconnected teh breather hose, what would happen is that under boost your crankcase would pressurise and force oil to piss out wherever the path of least resistance is.

We know we did it with Seans (thanks Jay for teh shit instructions)

however since the breather is disconnected you can leave the PCV feed in place. Now under vacuum vapours are evacuated as normal but under boost and pressure will blow straight out oif teh breather port.

Wether this is prefferable is up to you Sean, Dan, and I (I beelive Tem as well) have purchased Krankvents to solve this issue. We discussed them on here so a quick search on Krankvents here or on SC should explain it.

On teh Hass kit the vacuum reference for teh Profec, BOV and Wastegate are all teed of the pipe leading from the PCV. So far no issues.

hope that helps.