2nd Hand Apexi Power FC?

[evileye_wrx]

If I buy a second hand Apexi Power FC that has been used on a Mitsubishi Evo can I then get it re-tuned to run my '2?

Also, have read thru numerous mentions of the PFC using search. One thing I noticed was that it may invalidate Toyota warranty by having one of these fitted. If so would it be easily removable and replaced with the stock ECU for servicing etc. Would this cause any engine problems doing this?

Phil

[markiii]

can't comment as to wether this particular model will work on teh roadster,

but generally yes it's easily removeable,

wether this sia good idea depends on what engine mods you have.

[Anonymous]

A Mitsubishi Power FC won't work on a Toyota engine.  You need the specific model for 1ZZ-FE.

[Jap GT300]

Not even 1ZZ and 2ZZ models will work with each other.

[Tem]

Not even 1ZZ and 2ZZ models will work with each other.

I've been wondering about that lately. Say you have a 1ZZ PFC and a 2ZZ. Couldn't one make it work?

1ZZ PFC won't control lift, so you'd have to trigger that some other way, but other than that, why not? It'll need some wiring and completely new tune, but since it's basically just a programmable ecu, it should be doable, right?


I do realize it's not plug&play and you meant that, but just thought I'll steal the topic from here  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

I've wondered about that, specifically using a 2ZZ PFC with a 1ZZ.  I would think all you would need to do is wire some things differently.

[kanujunkie]

couldn't you use a pressure switch to control the lift, wether it be oil or vacuum?

[Anonymous]

Lift is not allowed to engage if water temp is below 140 degrees F, so you should have that input to a circuit in addition to a "window switch" (enable lift at X RPM and above, disable lift at X-offset RPM and below).  Window switches are typically used to control NOS.  MSD sells programmable ones.  I think they are programmable by resistor choices.  It would make more sense to make a 2ZZ PFC work with a 1ZZ, that way if you ever decided to swap the engine for a 2ZZ you'd be good to go.  A 1ZZ-FE PFC has ignition leading and trailing maps (which you can make the same)  whereas a 2ZZ just has one ignition map.  2ZZ PFC uses just one O2 sensor whereas 1ZZ PFC uses 2 (the one after the cat has no affect on 1ZZ or 2ZZ PFC).  There is a difference in knock detection, too.  In one you can set the threshold (I think that's the 2ZZ) and in the other you can't, IIRC.  But the main problems to be solved that I know of are:

(a) lift engage/disengage,
(b) making sure the ignition timing works, and
(c) O2 sensors.

I have not looked at the wiring, but do know that there are some differences (same as stock ECUs).  Even if all that was worked out, I'd be very careful due to "unknown unknowns".

[Tem]

(a) lift engage/disengage,
(b) making sure the ignition timing works, and
(c) O2 sensors.

I was thinking of some simple approach to (a), like an rpm triggered switch from external rev limiter, shift light or alikes. If one has a habit of revving above 6k with a cold engine, he might want another toggle switch to (dis)arm it manually or with the water temp, but I wouldn't need one.

I would add fuel and ignition to (b). I'm not sure where either gets the signal for timings, but I'm sure it can be figured out if it isn't the same.

O2 sensors...I don't use them anyway  s8) s8)

I have not looked at the wiring, but do know that there are some differences (same as stock ECUs).  Even if all that was worked out, I'd be very careful due to "unknown unknowns".

Yeah, I was assuming they have the same wiring differences as the stock 1ZZ/2ZZ. And yes, it would be best to try it first without actually running the engine, just in case  s8) s8)

[Anonymous]

The 2ZZ ECU & PFC may be checking other things before allowing lift to engage, like low oil pressure.  I think the low oil pressure input to the ECU is a ground when pressure is too low (indicating a problem).

You'd want to use 2ZZ maps, of course.  You'd be able to set the rev limit as high as you want, but I wonder about the translation of RPM to map index.  With 2ZZ PFC the cells are 500RPM wide (0-10000 RPM), with 1ZZ PFC the cells are I think 400RPM wide (0-8,000RPM).  I don't know how you could change that, but you'd want to, otherwise what would happen when you revved over 8000?  Workaround, perhaps, would be to change the RPM input to the ECU, but that would be a little hard to do because of the type of signal it is... and it could cause undesired side-effects.

Take a look at all the Settings tabs in FC Edit and see if there is a way to change RPM to map index (column) translation.   I can't remember.

[kanujunkie]

out of interest guys whats the max rpm the 1ZZ can handle, in theory?

[Anonymous]

I've been told 7300 on a good engine.  I had mine set that way and hit the rev limit a number of times at autocross (for maybe 10 seconds at a time, bouncing off the limit).

Settings Tab 3 has Map Reference with two columns of data, so you can put in whatever you want for "Boost" (AKA "pressure", which is actually calculated from airflow with a MAF sensor Power FC) and RPM.  You can make whatever divisions you want and they don't even have to be equally spaced.

[Tem]

I've had my rev limiter at 7.5k for two years now, without noticing any issues. I'm not saying there isn't any, just that if there is, I haven't noticed it. The first year was N/A with minor mods, so it really didn't make power up there anyway and I hardly ever revved it there, mainly just on one curve at one track, where I didn't want to change. The 2nd year was charged and the car was still happily boosting there and every shift during spirited driving was up there. That's with internally stock 1ZZ.

With 2ZZ PFC the cells are 500RPM wide (0-10000 RPM), with 1ZZ PFC the cells are I think 400RPM wide (0-8,000RPM).  I don't know how you could change that, but you'd want to, otherwise what would happen when you revved over 8000?

You can change the rpm and load spacing through Datalogit  s8) s8)

They don't even have to be even, so you may normally have 500rpm cells and 100rpm cells where you need more precise control.

[Anonymous]

Yup, see the post right above yours.   s8) s8)

[Tem]

Yup, see the post right above yours.   s8) s8)

Oops, somehow I missed that  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

So are you going to do this, Tem, go 2ZZ with a 1ZZ Power FC?

[Tem]

So are you going to do this, Tem, go 2ZZ with a 1ZZ Power FC?

I don't know yet  s:? :? s:?  

I'm very interested in going 2ZZ, but I can't make up my mind  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[aaronjb]

I'm very interested in going 2ZZ, but I can't make up my mind  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Turbo or NA 2ZZ?

[Tem]

I'm very interested in going 2ZZ, but I can't make up my mind  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Turbo or NA 2ZZ?

Well...I already asked LR about making a manifold to fit the TS kit to 2ZZ  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[aaronjb]

Well...I already asked LR about making a manifold to fit the TS kit to 2ZZ  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Well I didn't know that  s:P s:P   s;) s;)

Go on.. do it! (I may be living vicariously through other people's mods here..  s;) s;) )

Has anyone done it already, btw? I should search SC, I suppose, but I'm feeling lazy..  s;) s;)

[Anonymous]

CeeDapp has a Hass-powered 2ZZ over on SC, IIRC.

You lazy git.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[aaronjb]

You lazy git.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

*mutters*  s:P s:P

(And ta  s;) s;) )

I'll go do a search for power levels  s;) s;)

[Tem]

CeeDapp has a Hass-powered 2ZZ over on SC, IIRC.

I believe CeeDapp has a 1ZZ SMT (with the Hass turbo).

22XY has a Hass turbo on a 2ZZ:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24212 m

And he's not even the only one:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=25801 m

[aaronjb]

22XY has a Hass turbo on a 2ZZ:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24212 m

And he's not even the only one:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=25801 m

Thanks Tem  s;) s;)

(Far more useful than that Dan bloke  s;) s;)   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

[Anonymous]

Meh, I was close.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink: