My engine sounds a bit like a diesel, is this bad?

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 09:50

Some of you may have seen some of my other posts about rear windscreen's. I fear a far worse problem has now evolved.

I've had the car a week so I am not sure if it is just me or not. But yesterday the weather was nice so we decided to go for a blat to the coast with the roof down as you do.

I noticed that as we made our way out to the countryside the engine sounded a bit diesely on gentle acceleration around 2.5 - 4 K on the revs, wierd knocking sound (a bit like when the tappets are knackered on the old ford engines), also the engine resembles the sound of a diesel.

Further on in the trip as I am taking a right hander with some grit and determination I notice the oil light flashes (not good). So I back the hell off and pull in to the next service station about 5 miles later.

I have only had the car a week and the garage that sold it to me claimed they serviced it before they gave it to me and stamped my book to prove it. However 2.5 litres of oil later and a lot of sitting around waiting for things to settle the oil is finally registering on the dip. Guessing the cockney dealer didnt service it after all.

The noise however is still there and to be honest it doesnt sound good. I am driving a 2 seater sports car not a frigging tractor, anyone have an idea to what this could be. The engine doesnt seem down on power and there are no trails of blue smoke coming from the back. Also on hard acceleration the noise doesnt exsist, it can also be heard on overrun (down hills or when your foot it just on the gas to keep constant speed) when the revs are around 2.5 - 3.5 K.

Please help, I dont really want to fork out a small fortune for this car after having it for only a week.

I came with an aftermarket 12 month warranty from the grarage I bought it from, but bearing in mind he cant service a car I am no keeping my hopes up for this.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

David

Slacey · January 22, 2006, 10:00

It does sound potentially like the dreaded precat destruction issue. Read up on the threads on here to get you up to speed on the actual problem, and get the precats checked out as a matter of course ASAP, that will at least give an indication of where to go next. Fingers crossed it isn't serious.

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 10:37

Ok,

So lets pretend that my precats are self destructing and bits of cremic are floating around my engine, what damage does it cause and how much would it cost to fix?

Sorry I am not mechanically minded.

Also the warranty covers this with regards to the engine, would this cover any potential damage?

Engine:
Rocker assembly including rockers, valves (Excluding burnt valves), springs and guides, cylinder head (Excluding cracks), and gasket, push rods, camsheft and cam followers, timing gears, chains and belts, (providing proof of manufacturer's recommendations for changing is provided) oil pump, pistons and rings, cylinder bores, con rods, gudgeon pins, crankshaft bearings, flywheel and ring gear.

Exhaust systems are not mentioned at all in the warranty.

Cheers

David

P.s. O2 sensor removal tool, where can i get one of these from? Anywhere thats open on a sunday???

Slacey · January 22, 2006, 10:41

Right, looking at your engine warranty cover yes, it would be covered. Basically the ceramic material scores the cylinder bores allowing excessive amounts of oil to burn off, this then leads (most commonly) to the failure of the crankshaft bearings due to oil starvation. Also what usually happens is that the main cat gets clogged up with precat material accelerating the above process - if this isn't swapped out on a rebuil the same problem happens again - and usually very quickly too.

Slacey · January 22, 2006, 10:44

Sorry, forgot the O2 tool - you want a 22mm tool and you may be lucky if you go to a decent motor factors, Halfords don't stock them. If you can't find one locally, search on here and you will find links to a couple of places selling them online.

kanujunkie · January 22, 2006, 10:56

this link for the tool £7.45 inc vat and delivery

m http://www.gendandirect.co.uk/product_DR55540.html m

Good luck

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 11:01

Oh B*gger,

I took a mechinacally minded friend out yesterday, who I spoke to this morning about the noise and he said it sounded like the crankshaft.

Right back to the garage we go.

Thanks for you help fo far I shall keep you posted.

Cheers

David

aaronjb · January 22, 2006, 11:41

Indeed - when I read the title I was all ready to say 'serpentine belt tensioner'..

But reading the story - that sounds like big or little ends, doubly so as the oil light came on (which doesn't come on until you only have something like 4psi of oil pressure.. By which time the engine is toast already) s:(

s:(

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 12:09

the oil light was not on perminantly, just a split second flash, and at the moment, we still running, but sounding a bit ropey.

oh well a trip to the garage will revel more

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 12:36

David,
I'd be looking into rejecting the car as you've only had it for one week.

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 12:39

Ok,

I see your point, can I do this, it is second hand, bought from a garage. Can you reject it?? What should I expect and what are my rights?

Anyone know what in litre's it is from 1/4 way up the dipstick to just on the bottom?

Cause thats the oil my car has done in about 80-100 miles.

markiii · January 22, 2006, 12:40

you should be able to reject under the sales of goods act, i.e not fit for purpose.

Liz · January 22, 2006, 13:27

Its not a Silver X reg is it, purchased from the Midlands area, a friend that I work with p/x'd his recently his pre-cats had gone?

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 14:24

no its a blue W reg with 41K bought in the South East

Liz · January 22, 2006, 14:41

Wel I hope that you get it sorted out - I am sure that the same thing happened to Richie and he got another car in the end.

Anonymous · January 22, 2006, 19:52

was just about to post - those are the exact symptoms that my first mr2 had, luckily with a few weeks of pursuing, i finally got a full refund for the car and bought another one privately.

Also, in my experience the warranties that non-franchise dealers give with the cars isn't worth its weight in 5h!t.

If I were you, I would print off GSB's precat thread, take it into the dealer with you and get your money back. hopefully as you haven't had the car long you should be lucky enough to manage a refund as it would be in both the dealers and your interest.

sorry 2 hear about your problem,

Richie.

Anonymous · January 24, 2006, 18:59

Update:

Not wanting to start in the wrong foot with the dealer he is going to collect the car tomorrow.

Initially he wanted me to drive it up and he still can't believe its done 2.5 litres of oil in a week (600 miles ish, its a new car what do you expect). He seems genuinley concerned over the state of the car so I am hopeful.

I had my solicitor (arn't family useful at times) check over the warranty and it seems to be almost water tight (in my favour) with no cap.

I havent mentioned the precat theory to the guy yet, just asked him to check them out. I dont have a O2 sensor tool but I did do the black rag test, it came out grey. I take it this is not a good sign.

Depending on diagnosis I am unsure of what I am going to do. One thing is for sure though a week of driving that car has me hooked. If its not going to be this particular '2 it will be another.

The dealer reckons the old computer diagnostics will lead him to the problem. What does the ECU record and self diagnose, I am guessing as this kind of fault (if it is precat failure) slips under Mr.T's nose the ECU may not be too helpful, hopefully it will give him a push in the right direction though.

Wish me luck

David

Anonymous · January 24, 2006, 19:05

Quote from: "u9dbg"I dont have a O2 sensor tool but I did do the black rag test, it came out grey. I take it this is not a good sign.

Sorry to go off topic, but what is this test? how's it performed and what does it check for?

cheers for the [anticipated] explanation and patience! s:)

s:)

Anonymous · January 24, 2006, 19:22

Hold a black rag over your exhaust while someone gently revs the engine. If you see lots of little white particles on the rag, then that's not a good sign.

It checks for little bits of pre-cat floating around the exhaust system (which probably means there's little bits floating around the engine).

Anonymous · January 24, 2006, 19:49

Quote from: "Ekona"It checks for little bits of pre-cat floating around the exhaust system (which probably means there's little bits floating around the engine).

PMI but AIUI theres a certain amount of overlap on crank timing so that the departing exhaust gases help pull through the fresh mixture, under what circumstances would an engine 'suck' through the exhaust porrts?

aaronjb · January 24, 2006, 19:55

Been discussed before (a search for EGR will probably throw up other posts on this):

The 1ZZ-FE uses valve overlap under cruising conditions to create an EGR effect - that is, it's designed to suck a portion of exhaust gasses back into the combustion chamber to be reburnt in order to reduce emissions (has a side effect of cooling the combustion chamber).

Other cars have a dedicated valve for that (that connects the exhaust to the intake) - 300ZX, some modern Vauxhall engines amongst others.

On our cars they simply dispensed with the valve & pipework and made the engine do the work itself.

Anonymous · January 30, 2006, 17:16

Finally heard back from the garage today about the car.

They say they have driven it and admit it sounds a bit rattly. They also say they have test driven it, but who knows. The first thing they said was that they checked the manual and that 1/litre per 1200 (750ish miles if my convesion is correct) kilometers is acceptable for these types of cars. And that the second litre will burn quicker than the first and the thrid quicker than the second, etc.

Is this true or should oil consumption remain constant regardless of the amount in the sump?

Does anyone know the manufacturers figures with regard to oil consumption on the '2.

I asked where we to go from here and they drew a blank, but on the plus side I should get a courtsey car tomorrow, whoo a corsa I can hardly wait.

Cheers

David

Anonymous · January 30, 2006, 19:50

toyota say that it can burn a maximum of 1 litre of oil per 1000 miles, however i don't know of any healthy engine that uses that much.

however, your car using 2.5 litres in a few days is way more than this maximum limit.

Also, I would assume the comment they made about the 2nd and 3rd litres of oil being used faster is untrue because the less oil you have in the engine, the the lower the oil pressure would be. This is only my assumption and im sure if i'm wrong somebody will come along and correct me shortly.

As for a way forward, I would tell the garage you don't think the car is fit for its purpose and that you want a refund. I would then go buy a better example.

Regards,

Richie.

Anonymous · January 30, 2006, 20:32

I am aware of the unfit for purpose line but I cant really go for this line until the garage makes a diagnosis for the problem. Also I am still undecided whether to do this or take e rebuild.

My budget is tight and I am now in a point where I cant afford to be without a car for weeks and weeks whilst I look for another one. Also whats to say that if I buy another for a similar amount then its going to have similar milage at a similar age, so whats to stop it developing the same problem. Where at least if the garage rebuilds, I have a car with a new bottom end (possibly full engine), and CAT with a guarntee covering the work. If the engine needs rebuilding or replacing its not going to be done by the garage (they dont have the equipment), so it should be a proper job, also the cost of any work done on the car isn't going to be footed by the garage either, and I seem to be fortunate enough to have a guarntee which covers everything uncapped.

One thing is for sure whether I get a refund or a rebuild those precats won't be remaining in the car new or old.

Anyway we shall wait and see what they say, if they try to worm their way out of the work it will be a refund.

But I would appreciate it if someone could clarify about oil burning rates.

leon_in_uk · February 15, 2006, 09:12

oh my god, yesterday driving along.... and noticed when gentle pushing down on the old gas, my car sounds like a diesel... and above 2.5k revs.....

is this the same problem? what do i do? do i leave it to see if goes away?