I am now onto no.3 in 100,000miles.
This is the one I've just taken off the car
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0045.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff299/yingmcding/IMAG0215-1.jpg)
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff299/yingmcding/IMAG0214-1.jpg)
Basically you could just poke it with your finger and break bits off!
Is that the bit you see when you look directly down st the rear of the engine? Mine, as was others I looked at was grey, do they come out if the factory in grey regardless of the colour of the car?
Yes,they were all grey. This one looked fine from above but was rusted from the inside out.
I was concerned as my local garage told me it must have been replaced as it was grey, then I looked at Barney bears (possibly the cleanest car I've ever seen) which was grey too and I stopped worrying s:D :D s:D
Mines grey and looks pretty mint. s:D :D s:D
Mine was replaced by previous owner at 135k as car failed the MOT due to it being rusted through.
I think the only true way to at least keep the risk to a minimum, is to buy a new one, get it chemically stripped and then have an E coat applied - (the same as the shell), then get it painted and wax injected, expensive but at least you know the starting point of the crossmember.
It's heat from the exhaust that does not help forming condensation on the inside of the chassis, certainly during winter. I have fitted some heat matting to the chassis to stop at least some of this happening.
Rob
Gee this is worrying look at the level of rust present!
norman
Does anyone have a part number and price for the part?
Is it something that could be blasted, repaired and powder-coated or would that be a false economy.
The one on Nic's car was previously powder coated, we thought that this would prevent the ingress of corrosion but it appears not s:( :( s:(
If you are taking the trouble to strip it back to bare metal, you may as well galvanise it.
Chris
51206‑17040
MEMBER SUB-ASSY, REAR SUSPENSION
£236 EX VAT
I obtained mine 2nd hand from a breaker for £60 delivered.
Powder coated for £50
Fully internally treated with Dinitrol rust converter and wax £50
Sealed all openings bar the drain holes with Sicaflex sealant
The one you see here rusted was an earlier replacement I had powder coated too, but not internally treated.
The rust had broken through and looked for all the world like a crack and small hole. When I poked it after removal it just started to cave in. This area is directly behind the idle drive joint on the back of the engine and the beam seems to get constantly wet from it.
This map gives an indication of the corrosion areas of Britain and yes, I live in one of the higher areas!
m http://corrosion-doctors.org/AtmCorros/mapUK.htm (http://corrosion-doctors.org/AtmCorros/mapUK.htm) m
I have seen these repaired, but the repairs were pretty ropey and seemed to attract even more corrosion s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
I would solidly recommend anyone with a car that is approaching high mileage, doesn't have a garage to pull the rubber plugs on their beams and treat the interior with a spray applied rust converter then a wax treatment.
Sorry Rob, but as your car sees nothing like the mileage or all-year-round weather then your hard work doesn't prove what you do protects the car at all. It may be nice & clean but it's no demonstration of what works.
For info, the experts recommend acid strip and e-coat, fabulously expensive s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Galvanizing is not an option and not recommended as it can twist the beam and considering your rear suspension is attached to it you need to make sure everything is the shape it's supposed to be! I did explore this option. s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Sorry Rob, but as your car sees nothing like the mileage or all-year-round weather then your hard work doesn't prove what you do protects the car at all. It may be nice & clean but it's no demonstration of what works.
For info, the experts recommend acid strip and e-coat, fabulously expensive s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Galvanizing is not an option and not recommended as it can twist the beam and considering your rear suspension is attached to it you need to make sure everything is the shape it's supposed to be! I did explore this option. s:? :? s:?
Well Nic I understand what you are saying, but if you remember I did tell you that powder coating is porous and will allow corrosion to build up underneath the coating - just like what happened to your beam (I have seen complete sections of powder coating peel off and leave the base metal rusting underneath - this was at JCB), combine that with the none coating of the internals then you end up with what you have got - a big hole. A good powder coating should be put on top of a phosphated coating (similar to E coat process), which is what I had done to my chassis on my Spitfire, 20 years later it's still like new even though it's not being used it's been subject to many different ambient conditions over the years
It's the first time I've been called an expert, but if you are thinking of keeping the car then it's a consideration (E coat), I've gone a different route as I already know the condition of the crossmember, nylon (which is used for coating internals of valves in the water industry) chemically bonds to the base material unlike powder coating which just covers the crossmember.
I've had a lot of time to mess about with coatings (26 years on the Spitfire), so although my car does not see the conditions of most vehicles I understand which is the best method of protecting it in the long term.
Rob.
Actually considering what you've said Rob, the coaters used a zinc primer on mine this time too s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"Actually considering what you've said Rob, the coaters used a zinc primer on mine this time too s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
That will certainly help Nic.
The thing is although my car may look shiney it's not the only reason I've done what I have, I look at the long term prospect of keeping the car and certainly the crossmember is a weak point and therefore I made a decision to do something about it early on in the cars life, the problems that we see happening now are a result of most members buying cars from previous owners (not all I will add) who had no real consideration for the long term prospects of keeping the car, it's a fact I'm afraid.
Rob
Here's another one that doesn't look too bright (and the coated beam that ultimately replaced it). X reg 90k, happily used!
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg196/scaled.php?server=196&filename=crossmember.jpg&res=landing)
This had been through a successful MOT the previous month. Either a bent or blind tester s:shock: :shock: s:shock: . Same area of damage as Nic's with a tatty Mig repair and a little extra ventilation adjacent to the offside driveshaft/CV.
As Nic says, check your crossmembers .... and certainly don't tell yourself that a 12 month ticket means you shouldn't bother.
Indeed mine had passed MOT only a couple of months beforehand ... but the initial hole was well hidden from view. I only spotted it when replacing the alternator.
The last car I stripped was one of the first registered. Didnt even have bin lids behind seats. Cross member was near perfect!
Is replacement just a bolt-off, bolt-on operation, or do you need to re-align suspension etc afterwards? - Any other parts attached to it, that are going to be seized or similarly knackered, that need replacing at the same time?
Quote from: "kentsmudger"Is replacement just a bolt-off, bolt-on operation, or do you need to re-align suspension etc afterwards? - Any other parts attached to it, that are going to be seized or similarly knackered, that need replacing at the same time?
It is all bolted in place, the suspension arms bushed can be seized in place, so worth watching out for.
There is a gearbox "engine mount" attached which just unbolts too.
The abs wire holders are bolted at each end too.
You WILL need a realignment afterwards.
I managed to get mine out without removing the exhaust .. but it's fiddly s:scared: :scared: s:scared: (i.e. lots of swearing)
The tie bar bolts can be siezed into the crossmember, particularly the camber bolts. If you apply too much force its easy to twist the metal of the crossmember. Only important if youre putting it back! Worst case, new bolts required, about £15 each.
Rear geo will need to be done afterward.
Just one thing to remember, when undoing the the bolts which hold the arms to the chassis, undo the bolt head and not the nut as this has a securing lugs built in which lock it into the chassis, that's why sometimes it's difficult to spot a loose bolts as the nut head will not move. Same goes for when you torque them up again - bolt head.
Rob.
One of the problems with these beams is that they have open orifices on the ends next to the wheels.
All the wet (and salt in winter months) gets sprayed around there and it stands to reason some will get into the beam.
It is actually still rare for this kind of damage to occur ... it seems to affect cars that live outside 100% of the time, and Skipton is a fairly damp environment most of the year s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Might be worth noting that the crossmember got modified at facelift time. Additional bracing was fitted and holes to capture fixing bolts created. Its therefore important if you have a later car, to get the later member.
For early cars, any xmember will do the job.
I've certainly seen a lot of holed crossmembers (aka rear sub-frame). As D!ck points out, if you're replacing one the track arm bolts (I'm sure that's what he meant as opposed to camber bolts s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) are often seized and generally impossible to remove without destroying them so it may be best to get the track arms with the replacement member.
MOT stations generally can't see it when the undertrays are on which might explain why it shows up on some tests and not others. (These days, having the undertrays on at MOT is an advisory notice pointing out that they cannot see components covered by them!).
That said, I reckon Nic's experience of having to replace it three times is not typical, but I certainly agree that checking it and doing what you can to arrest any corrosion that might be present (specifically the area where the exhaust passes) is a vital step.
Quote from: "MattPerformance"I've certainly seen a lot of holed crossmembers (aka rear sub-frame). As D!ck points out, if you're replacing one the track arm bolts (I'm sure that's what he meant as opposed to camber bolts s:wink: :wink: s:wink: ) are often seized and generally impossible to remove without destroying them so it may be best to get the track arms with the replacement member.
MOT stations generally can't see it when the undertrays are on which might explain why it shows up on some tests and not others. (These days, having the undertrays on at MOT is an advisory notice pointing out that they cannot see components covered by them!).
That said, I reckon Nic's experience of having to replace it three times is not typical, but I certainly agree that checking it and doing what you can to arrest any corrosion that might be present (specifically the area where the exhaust passes) is a vital step.
Im just quoting Toyotas own parts list, Bolt, Camber Adjust, part number 48190-32010. s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "dick2ski"I'm just quoting Toyotas own parts list, Bolt, Camber Adjust, part number 48190-32010. s:? :? s:?
It's a
cam bolt that adjusts the track. Must be a translation thing?!?! Glad it wasn't your error though D!ck s:P :P s:P
For info my first crossmember was damaged while trying to remove corroded toe adjustment bolts. Apart from that it was in good shape.
As Matt says it's worth getting diwn there with a torch and check it out, it is a vital part of the rear suspension.
Sent from a planet somewhere nearby
Just been under the rear of my car this morning as the paint had started to peel off the rear ant roll bar, so decided to treat it with Hammerite Kurust and Black Hammerite Smooth. Whilst there and with the nappy off I checked out the crossmember from underneath & above. Quite a lot of surface rust but otherwise everything looks solid and no holes or 'bendy' bits - from above it looks fine, so you do need to get under the car. Treated the exposed rusty bits with the Kurust & sprayed everything with WD40. Obviously this won't help at all if it's rusting from the inside out. s:( :( s:( Car only done 40K & kept in a garage since new, so hoping the crossmember will last for some years to come. s:D :D s:D
I just ordered a new crossmember from CTP and new toe link bolts. I wondering about modifications before fitting, seems silkaflex it all sealed up from the top, leaving drain holes obviously a good idea. Maybe weld an extra layer of steel over the area by the exhaust to act as a heat shield? Fill it with waxoil.
Personally I'd fill it with expanding foam then out some heat shield over the area by the exhaust.
Why expanding foam?
so you don't leave a void for condensation to occur? Fill it with foam, nowhere for moisture to gather. Probably wrong but no harm in having a guess! s:) :) s:)
Could be, but isn't expanding foam a bit like a big sponge? Open to suggestions as want my new one to stay like new as long as possible.
m http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=323732 (http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=323732) m
Found this researching - not builders foam, special expensive stuff.
the infiniti Q45 stuff and other products sounds a lot better than the stupid priced BMW stuff... that could be well worth a look, people talking $100 which in the scheme of things is peanuts... s:D :D s:D
Trouble is we only think of these things once the rot has set in s:( :( s:(
If you're buying a new cross member then it's worth protecting it as much as possible.
Yeah I agree, definitely worth protecting! I haven't looked at mine (haven't looked at the car in months as it's parked with a blown engine) but before it goes back on the road I'll be checking and replacing the crossmember if required - I'll have doubled the power so probably best to have a nice positive location for the rear end!!
I was amazed how much mine had gone - to the extent by the toe link on the exhaust side I wouldn't pass it if I was an mot man. Above exhaust all holler as well. Rest of it looked like new, from the top and a blemish.
New crossmember arrived today :-) :-) :-) Tight arse Toyota though, I ordered new camber bolts as don't want to use rusty old ones and all that was in the packets were the bolt bit not the nut bit! Who orders one half of a camber bolt???
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230813%20rear%20crossmember%20mr2.jpg)
One new cross member :-) :-) :-) so, I'm definitely going to paint it again as paint on the welds is flaking off from new.
Decided to do a full over haul so have full rear CHE arms to go on.
(http://www.steve-bowen.co.uk/steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/230813%20CHE%20bars%20mr2.jpg)
Plus Speed source engine mounts, I got some extra mounts and have fitted the new bushes in them ready and BC Coilover are on order :-) :-) :-)
Really need to decide on ride height and geometry now in addition to cross member rust proofing. Any handy hints and tips for when I do the work, actually replacing all these bits?
Slightly related had car on ramps today removing rear bumper noticed general rust i was thinking of wire brushing then adding some sort of rust prevention then potentially spraying in plasticote good or bad idea? Any other advise welcome.
That'd be better than ignoring it Tom s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Not sure about Plasticote to finish it off though. There are probably better products out there to seal and protect exposed and treated metal.
As with most things though, its all about preparation. Get a good surface for paint to key to and you'll get a longer lasting result.
Aii its not to bad underneath just im one person who has never liked rust, might have a more specified look at cross members but from memory they were pretty good. Id like to prevent further rusting. Maybe have a good scrat around the net on my few days off this week.
If you can get to an HM Dockyard - Have a word with a Dockyard worker or Sailor to supply you with 1 gal. of Red Admar (Paint used to deter rust on HM Warships) - " Proper Job !! " s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Going to pm you something haha
Quote from: "steve b"http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=323732
Found this researching - not builders foam, special expensive stuff.
Just noticed this - Look like interesting stuff for several reasons
I was changing my exhaust manifold today for a stainless one with no cat as I was paranoid of the dreaded cat material breaking up and wrecking my engine. I saw some holes in my cross member while I was under there so decided to remove it as it would make things easier anyway. I was wondering if if is worth getting welded or is replacement always the best option? It has a small hole on top, on one side and a largish one underneath. Inspecting inside doesn't look too bad. I've attached a picture of the large crack/hole. Thanks in advance.
(http://i.imgur.com/hlVMiIG.jpg)
I've seen much worse get welded up and through a couple of years of MOT. If its done well its probably worth having it done, but then there's always that nagging thought in your mind which'll take the edge off any spirited driving.
We've also seen some really shoddy flat plate weld jobs done on these - probably while they're still on the car. The fact that you've got it off is a bonus for ease of repairing.
Tough call though, and I'd say that if you're into '2 ownership for the duration, replace it. A quality welding job would cost a fair chunk of the £250 to replace with a shiny shiny.
That is deffo a replacement needed!! (The weld would be the strongest point!!)
Thanks very much for the input. I plan to have the car for a while, so a replacement may be in order. I might get it welded just now while I save a bit for the new beam in a couple months.
Might also be worth contacting some these guys breaking cars in the private sales section night find a gem for alot less than new, might be worth the punt.
Can a person kindly draw on the above picture
And exsplain what goes where when the subframe
is attached.
This is for my own refrences very nice pictures
And well worth that cash.
The subframes seem to be one of the most
Inportant part of the car and i want to understand
It reason why it there, i am guessing suspention to wheels.
To me the subframe like above put on a car makes that
Car new agin from any major mot fails and safty.
Might be wrong here.
The mr2 sems to come apart and easly replace
Even main parts, maybe that was the design of the car
Easy replacement of parts and track day addons.
Regards john.
Ps. I am just trying to understand my car properly
So i no what what cheers thank you . John
[Moved from Wanted Ad thread to keep the sale on topic]
John, I've moved your enquiry over to here as its probably a better place for it.
A few posts up, you'll see that steve b is replacing his crossmember (a.k.a. subframe) and suspension components. I'm sure that more pictures will follow to help figure out what is what.
For info, the crossmember holds the inner ends of the toe arm and both trailing arms, along with the rear engine mount. On facelift models, the additional support bracing is also connected there.
Aside from that, there are a few other attachments, such as ABS cable brackets, airbox inner heatshield and the nappies at the point where front and rear sections interlock.
Thankfully, I don't believe we've seen a catastrophic failure of the crossmember yet, and I hope we don't. Its a little worrying to see the state of some crossmembers that have passed through an MOT because they've been obscured from a thorough visual check by the nappies. Like this one, posted earlier in the thread:
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg196/scaled.php?server=196&filename=crossmember.jpg&res=landing)
So, if we can't always rely on the MOT tester......as Nic says: " Check your crossmembers"!
Checked today while there was rust on the bolts rest was fine did have a good dig at it with a screw driver to make sure
Did paint mine a few years back with Hammerite then had it wax oiled last year but gave it another spray all over
Also took the top heat shield off and rubber plugs out and sprayed a can of wax oil in the holes so fingers crossed
Big phew but will be checking myself more often than the yearly MOT
Great post as its stopped me worrying for a month or two now I've had a look and more to the point because of the great pictures knew what to look for and where
Thank you for the compliment Smarty nice to see its noticed s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
While my baby's down at Dr Matt's, I asked him to check mine, whacking great hole in it apparently, so getting a replacement in there too.
I said he should gather all the reccently discarded defunct subframes, get the oxycet kit out and make a sculpture as a 2 tribute s;) ;) s;)
So I received my new crossmember from CTP today to replace my old rusty one. However, I can't for the life of me remove the lower suspension arms from the old crossmember. The nuts are off the bolts and the arm is loose in the crossmember but I can't get the bolt out either side. Is there some trick to it as they have weird shaped camber type washers on them and grooves down the side of the bolts? Or do they just rust into the arms horribly?
Thanks.
Common problem really, the bolts rust into the tubes running through the rubber bushes.
It's touch and go whether you can get them loose, lots of to&fro work with plusgas being liberally sprayed in sometimes saves them.
Otherwise is't cutting tim and replace the bushes and bolts for the arms.
Ok thanks Wabbit. Great help. The bolts should just come out straight? No need to have them at a certain angle due to the channel running along them?
No, they should come straight out, the channels are cut just to get the adjustment plates the same position at each end of the bolt.
I remember the first time we did this, we ended up setting fire to the rubber to get the thing apart s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
You never know this is going to happen until you try taking it apart, you could order the bolts and bushes (after market) but then not need them, or you could wait till you're trying to dismantle and then end up waiting for the order to be delivered.
Quote from: "Wabbitkilla"No, they should come straight out, the channels are cut just to get the adjustment plates the same position at each end of the bolt.
I remember the first time we did this, we ended up setting fire to the rubber to get the thing apart s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes:
You never know this is going to happen until you try taking it apart, you could order the bolts and bushes (after market) but then not need them, or you could wait till you're trying to dismantle and then end up waiting for the order to be delivered.
Yeah the new crossmember is on the car, and I can't get the arms out the old one at all. So If I ordered new arms they wouldn't have the bushes already in? I can't seem to find a price for new arms anywhere online.
Sounds like cutting/burning the old bushes out and getting after market bushes adn new bolts might be the way to go.
What are the options for after market suspension arms? Do they come with bushes? Costs?
Thanks again and hope I'm adding to the thread and not highjacking it.
When you order arms they come with bushes, that's the way they're made. Or you can cut the bolts and press the bushes out then fit with aftermarket bushes and fit with new bolts from Toyota.
There are also adjustable arms from TopSpeed Pro1 (Che).
Most people just get second hand arms from breakers.
So I managed to get the bolts out the arms after some wd40 and smashing them with a large hammer so thanks for your help rabbit.
The new cross member is fitted now. One thing I've noticed is that where the heat shield bolts to the crossmember there are 7 threaded holes but only 3 are used for the heat shield. Water will obviously drip in through the other unused holes so I've put 4 appropriate sized bolts in the open holes to seal them.
Also at each 4 corners of the beam there are open gaps to the inside of the beam due to the way the beam is constructed. I'm fairly confident water will be spraying up from the wheels right into these gaps gathering in the beam, so I have siliconed them up. I can see no benefit to the gaps here so I'm trying to keep moisture out the beam as much as possible.
I have also repainted all the welds as another member pointed out the factory paint comes off the welds leaving exposed metal.
I hope this all prevents the rot for a while.
Fitted mine on Saturday, seem sealed and ACF50'd it and then painted with Hammerite.
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20new%20subframe.jpg)
Silkaflexed
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20old%20and%20new%20subframe.jpg)
Old and the new
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20exhaust%20no%20subframe.jpg)
View of exhaust without subframe - easy to do the job with exhaust in place.
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260813%20Elise%20parts%20sump.jpg)
View from the bottom with no subframe, can see my nice old Elise Parts sump that's kept this engine safe.
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20new%20subframe%20on%20with%20CHE%20toelink.jpg)
CHE toelinks & BC coilovers and new subframe on.
(http://www.steve-bowen.com/mk3%20mr2/260913%20BC%20coilovers.jpg)
BC coilovers on, worth noting that you should leave shocks in place when fitting new subframe as they support the hubs and drive shafts when you undo the trailing arms, control arms and toelinks.
Need a geo now and test it all out on track mid next month.
Got second hand Xmember last night and hubby took into work this morning and sandblasted, painted and cavity waxed it. Looks like a new part so now ready to go on Oldie!! Just to get her taxed at the end of the month too as she is SORNed at the moment.
I've bought a new crossmember from CTP and had a quote of £140 plus VAT to acid dip and electroplate coat. Can those in the know tell me if it is worth it? My thinking is that is isn't on the basis the current one has been on the car 10 years and the car is unlikely to still be going in another 10 years. s:? :? s:?
I guess it depends how many miles you cover.
Mine is a daily driver, so i opted to have the 'works' done to it.
I take your point about it outlasting the life of the car in it's standard form.
Currently around 5k miles a year but expect that will reduce in future years as the car is about to be retired from the daily driver to a weekend toy/track car.
Poss not worth it then. Especially if you can avoid the salt in the winter.
So, if I looked from above today, and saw a nice new looking, uniform grey crossmember....
Does this mean it sounds like mine was replaced not too long before I bought it?
Do I need to check further? There were no signs of any sort of rust/damage that I could see anywhere on the whole length of it.
From above mine looked perfect, from below it was scrap. Need to look by the exhaust and tierod mounts.
Thanks. I'll have a good look down there next time I'm scrambling in the dirt with my nappy off!! s:) :) s:)
Recent news....
It appears Toyota have extended a 10 year warranty for the Cross member.
This is conditional on full Toyota service history as far as i can tell so far.
Can you reveal your source Nic?
Not that it would have made any difference to me, car was over 10 years old. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
PS. Was a little bit worried that your had failed again. Glad that wasn't the case. :-) :-) :-)
Facebook update from a nice chap called Dave Robson;
QuoteWell my 53 reg passed its mot. It was then retested and failed, as when they were completing the 10year service they noticed severe corrosion to the subframe. This can be replaced under a toyota issued 11 year warranty apparently but only to cars that have failed mots, the manager of my toyota dealership said after he'd rang toyota uk.
Quotereplacement has been authorised. Its on a case by case basis, history of car, condition , and how persuasive the service manager can be. Looks like staying loyal to my main dealer has payed off for once:-)
I've asked if Dave can get hold of written terms and conditions from the dealership, and I'll update when he gets back to me
That is interesting. My 04 crossmember has seen better days, and I am on very good terms with my local parts manager!
Well, let's wait and see what actually happens and what the T&C's are before people start jumping in.
I'm not going to name the dealer yet to avoid crashing the whole deal.
Is there any further news on the possibility of getting the rear subframe replaced under warranty? I have been informed that my facelift 03-plate MR2 will fail the next MoT unless it is replaced, so I've been on the phone to the local Toyota dealer who have told me that "under vehicle" components only have a 3 year anti-corrosion warranty, so wouldn't be covered.
As an aside, does anyone have good suggestions for where to get a (used) replacement rear subframe?
Many thanks.
Not yet sorry, hopefully soon.
I need to change the rear crossmember soon on mine, who are CTP
Cheap toyota Parts in the affiliate section.
Hi, it's Dave.
This is pretty much what Graeme (toyota dealership service manager, Knaresborough 01423867456) said after my car failed its mot
"I remember reading something ages ago about an extended warranty issued by Toyota on the subframe, so when yours failed I rang them to check. There is an 11 year warranty on this part, but ive had to take pictures not only of the corroded part but of the condition of the car in general. Its gone back and forth between us over a few days but they have now agreed to supply and fit a new subframe under this warranty. It does not however cover any bolts etc, just the part and labour, so they may be a charge for the bolts. We will always try and reuse the bolts already on your car but after 10 years some of them might be seized."
I must say though I've never taken nicer pictures of a nicer mr2. It looks totally mint especially on the inside."
So after picking up my car after it was fixed (and no charge for bolts) , I asked Graeme whether we could see the terms and conditions of this warranty. I explained I was a member of roc, and that this part being replaced under warranty is not something that has been widely reported. This is what he said.
"Its pretty much on a case by case basis. The car must have decent service history, decent mileage, be in good condition generally. The main condition of the warranty is that it must be a mot fail on the subframe, it will not apply if it doesn't. Your members should be able to get this from any Toyota dealership, but remember its not the service manager that decides but the warranty people at Toyota themselves. I have a good relationship with them, i've been a service manager for over 10 years, and you have looked after your car. I am happy to do the same thing for your roc as i've done for you, if they are worried about their subframes and their cars are less then 11 years old then I will happily MOT them for £30 and take the pics and have the same conversations with the warranty people.
Hopefully we can get a few more subframes out of them "
My views on this, all businesses become more successful by having great relationships with their customers.
Background points that may be relevant..
I've been at that dealership since I bought my blue in 2006, I bought my aygo from them in 2008. I have a 5 year service plan on my sable since 2012.
My 53 reg does not have full Toyota service history, 2 out of the 10 services were done at a local garage before I owned it, but it has only covered 49000 miles.
The car did also need a new water pump and aux belt, a fitted charge of £331. The subframe cost would have been £707. So I did of course say before the warranty claim was authorised that I would wait to see the outcome of that before I paid for the other works to be done.
Graeme did say that if the warranty claim wasn't upheld it could be welded, but they don't offer that service at the dealership. But he could sort somewhere out.
But there definitely is an 11 year warranty on the subframe s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "robsonic"This is pretty much what Graeme (toyota dealership service manager, Knaresborough 01423867456) said after my car failed its mot
"I remember reading something ages ago about an extended warranty issued by Toyota on the subframe, so when yours failed I rang them to check. There is an 11 year warranty on this part, but ive had to take pictures not only of the corroded part but of the condition of the car in general. Its gone back and forth between us over a few days but they have now agreed to supply and fit a new subframe under this warranty. It does not however cover any bolts etc, just the part and labour, so they may be a charge for the bolts. We will always try and reuse the bolts already on your car but after 10 years some of them might be seized."
I must say though I've never taken nicer pictures of a nicer mr2. It looks totally mint especially on the inside."
Cheers.
I may be getting somewhere with my local dealer. They are still adamant that it won't be covered, but have agreed to look, take photos and ask Toyota. Its unfortunate that it seems you _have_ to go through the dealer rather than being able to contact Toyota directly though, so you're pretty much at the mercy of how helpful the dealer feels like being.
I'm a little curious about which bit of the warranty this is covered by. I've dug out my warranty information and it seems there are 3 sections:
1. Comprehensive (3 years / 60K miles)
2. Surface rust and paintwork (3 years)
3. Corrosion perforation of bodywork (12 years)
The dealer claims that the "corrosion perforation" warranty doesn't cover any parts that aren't painted the car's colour. The information I have doesn't say that, but does define "bodywork" as "sheet metal body panel including such parts as engine bonnet, doors, boot lid and floor panel, but excluding parts attached to the body, such as mouldings, bumpers and hinges." I would think that since the crossmember is structural it should be considered "bodywork", but the dealer says no.
Another sticking point is that for the past few years I've carried out my own servicing (having found the dealer to be both expensive and rubbish), so they may complain about that.
Would highly recommend waxoil and additional external paint but personally would not start welding bits on.
Quote from: "robsonic"3. Corrosion perforation of bodywork (12 years)
Taken from Toyota brochure
three year paint warranty and a 12-year,
corrosion or perforation warranty. Full after sales support is available through Toyota's extensive and highly trained European dealer network.
You missed the {or} out
Mine came up on the mot as an advisory this time, first time ever. 52 plate preface lift with 137k miles. Thanks to this thread I had inspected it before hand and it is solid, just some surface rust.
However I believe the only reason it was highlighted this time is because previous years all the under trays have been fitted, but are all now removed.
I don't think this new Warranty we are discussing is anything to do with the original Manufacturer's Warranties since it is apparently an 11 year Warranty.
It appears to be a little like the 7 year Warranty they suddenly gave on the engines after they found the OCR problem caused the precats to break up and kill engines s:( :( s:(
An update on this:
I called Toyota customer services (0800-1388744) and they confirmed that the subframe has had its warranty extended to 11 years in certain specific conditions (but they wouldn't go into detail regarding what the conditions were). They gave me a reference number for the warranty extension: 649255.
Local dealer booked it in to have a look - they needed to take photos, see the MoT failure certificate and the service record book. After about a week I got a call to say the warranty had been approved and that they would replace the subframe at no cost. So my car's just come back from the dealer, a week before it's 11th birthday - new subframe and rear control arm bushes fitted (only took them 3 hours, which I was amazed at given how rusty everything was!). Looks like they've used a combination of new and old bolts and haven't charged me for anything so I'm pretty pleased.
Some interesting points:
- My car doesn't have an engine under tray on it (the screws rusted up and sheered off a few years ago and I never bothered to put it back on). They noted that it was missing on the "visual safety report", but it didn't seem to affect the warranty claim.
- The service book doesn't have many Toyota stamps in it since I do my own servicing, although I do note the dates and mileages of the services in it.
- This is a facelift 03-plate MR2.
- The new subframe is painted - I'm not sure if the old one was originally (its so rusty that you can't tell).
So definitely worth chasing Toyota if you've got a rotten rear subframe and your car's under 11 years old.
Nice feedback, thanks for posting the results.
More importantly... happy motoring with a new shiny subframe. s:-D :-D s:-D
Just as a reminder Ste and I were prepping Radu's car for a new cross member today and were shocked by the state of the old one.
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0039_zps28m2dabq.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0044_zps44fo4zv1.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0038_zpsgr1zavuy.jpg)
(http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr299/wabbitkilla/DSC_0043_zpslpz5thrr.jpg)
Christ! I'll be inspecting the two I've got when they come off their respective cars.
Both look fine from what I can see, although one is carrying significantly more surface rust than the other.
I swapped mine out a couple of weeks ago. Not a horrendous job but I had the pleasure of leaving the old arms on the cross member as I was fitting all new items
Quick heads up. Currently on special offer, so if you're in need now's the time:
Pre-facelift (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m5b0s2417p123022/TOYOTA_OE_GENUINE_PARTS_-_Rear_Suspension_Subframe_-_Toyota_MR2_1_8_ZZW30_1ZZFE)
Facelift (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m5b0s2417p123021/TOYOTA_OE_GENUINE_PARTS_-_Rear_Suspension_Subframe_-_Toyota_MR2_1_8_ZZW30_1ZZFE)
That's a healthy saving you have found there Ste. s:-D :-D s:-D
Quote from: "spit"Quick heads up. Currently on special offer, so if you're in need now's the time:
Pre-facelift (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m5b0s2417p123022/TOYOTA_OE_GENUINE_PARTS_-_Rear_Suspension_Subframe_-_Toyota_MR2_1_8_ZZW30_1ZZFE)
Facelift (http://www.camskill.co.uk/m5b0s2417p123021/TOYOTA_OE_GENUINE_PARTS_-_Rear_Suspension_Subframe_-_Toyota_MR2_1_8_ZZW30_1ZZFE)
Excellent spot!
Just ordered thank you very much. Just spotted this at the weekend
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3882/14695971471_1cba5d079d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ooCGjt)IMG_20140720_145913 (https://flic.kr/p/ooCGjt) by cptspaulding64 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
Probably repairable but for the time & cost of the repair (I don't have any welding capability). With a new replacement I have time to fill the sucker with waxoyle etc & give it the paint job required before hopefully doing a straight swap with minimal faff.
Got a rather big job (for me) coming up shortly (gulp)
How can you tell if it needs replacing if there aren't actually any holes like that?
have a poke around, it should be solid everywhere. if its weak, replace.
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"I swapped mine out a couple of weeks ago. Not a horrendous job but I had the pleasure of leaving the old arms on the cross member as I was fitting all new items
Hi, I've got to do mine soon, what arms did you get that made the job easier? Did you use a manual or did you all ready know what to do?
Also planning to use this stuff (http://www.rust.co.uk/8-epoxy-mastic-rust-proofing-paint/t6/) as protection on the new crossmember
Quote from: "gaffer1986"Quote from: "Meeerrrk"I swapped mine out a couple of weeks ago. Not a horrendous job but I had the pleasure of leaving the old arms on the cross member as I was fitting all new items
Hi, I've got to do mine soon, what arms did you get that made the job easier? Did you use a manual or did you all ready know what to do?
Hi, I fitted a set of hard race adjustable arms, but the meaning behind my comment was that because I had new (replacement) arms to fit to the new cross member, I didn't have to fight to get the old ones out; as they were corroded in, like a lot of these cars suffer from.
Just made the job a lot easier. There is a thread some where on here which has the info needed to replace, but it really is very simple.
Fitting instructions l viewtopic.php?t=50071 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=50071) l
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Fitting instructions l viewtopic.php?t=50071 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=50071) l
Thanks for your help, I probably don't need the special adjustable arms so will probably try and fit the existing, no one on here seems to report the arms snapping or being in poor condition so I'm assuming they will be in good order.
This seems like a great forum, I will have a read of the link.
What's the correct terminology of both the arms that connect to the crossmember? I imagine I will have to get new bushes and bolts for the arms when I replace the crossmember so I need to know what they're called to order the correct bushes. From my research so far, I'm guessing I will need some exhaust gaskets. Where do people get there parts from?
I've just ordered the crossmember from camskil so should have it Friday.
Gaskets need to be from a Toyota supplier (or our CTP affiliate). At a push you can re-use the large Cat to Exhaust gasket and just need the single-use pair of manifold to cat gaskets. Worth getting the three nuts for the mani-cat joint too. They gnarl up something rotten at this age when you wind them off ..... and they may take the mani studs with them too (or shear them off, which is a pain).
Cat-Exhaust spring bolts can be re-used if they're not totally fubarred. They tend to rust to a point from the tip and squeal like a pig during removal, so if the threads are damaged, replace them. PlusGas is your friend for getting this stubborn stuff apart.
The arm comes with a bush well and truly fitted. To fit aftermarket bushes requires getting the old one pressed out.
Toyota listing for the arm is Arm Assembly, Rear Suspension No.1. aka No.1 Lower Suspension Arm
Toyota listing for the cam adjust arm is Arm Assembly, Rear Suspension No.2 aka No.2 Lower Suspension Arm
(For completeness, the one to the front of the crossmember, running between Car Body and Hub, is the Strut rod. You can leave this one alone).
I've discovered that ball joint nuts on the No.2 arm can strip their threads quite easily, so if you're shopping you may want to get some new ones in, just in case. At the other end, you may want to replace your cam bolts if the old ones put up a fight during removal from the old crossmember.
Quote from: "gaffer1986"Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Fitting instructions l viewtopic.php?t=50071 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=50071) l
Thanks for your help, I probably don't need the special adjustable arms so will probably try and fit the existing, no one on here seems to report the arms snapping or being in poor condition so I'm assuming they will be in good order.
This seems like a great forum, I will have a read of the link.
Agree the arms are overkill but my point is that the connecting bolts at the cross member end seize into the bush of the arm and can be impossible to get out, that's what started all this for me, I tried to take it for alignment and they couldn't adjust it.
Also remember the nuts have little locking teeth in the back, so it's the bolt head which you need to undo, rather than the nut.
The bolts are expensive, I replaced all of the fixing hardware and it came to about £110!
As said the cheaptoyotaparts section on here are about the same price as your local dealer, albeit more convenient probably
Thanks, I will send CTP and email.
I've sent an email to CTP, are the cam bolts arm no 1 or 2?
Inner ends of arm no.2. CTP Chris'll know the ones.
Just seen this and ordered a new crossmember
great saving ,thanks
Dom
Quote from: "spit"Inner ends of arm no.2. CTP Chris'll know the ones.
I thought that's what you meant. Is it possible to remove the crossmember without removing the ball joints of arm 2, I'm assuming the ball joint on arm 2 connects to the hub, I was planning to leave the arms connected to the hubs and just remove the arms from the crossmember, is this not possible? Is it worth getting the crossmember bolts/nuts that connect the crossmember to the rest of the chassis?
Thanks again for your help, I'm quite surprised how expensive nuts can be..
I didn't replace the main connecting bolts I just gave them a clean and copper grease before refitting
Its true you don't absolutely need them, but if any of the four inner fixings don't come out you're absolutely stuck without them!
I'm all for re-using stuff where possible. I've only mentioned these things because they can cause grief and I know how infuriating it can be to get so far and find out you need to order something in. If you have time, work through and buy as you need.
Of course, if the bolts don't come out, you're looking at major surgery if you want to save the arm for re-use.
Quote from: "gaffer1986"Is it possible to remove the crossmember without removing the ball joints of arm 2, I'm assuming the ball joint on arm 2 connects to the hub, I was planning to leave the arms connected to the hubs and just remove the arms from the crossmember, is this not possible?
Yes, you can do it that way providing the inner four bolts come out OK..... and it'll help you decide what fixings you can re-use and what you need to replace.
It requires a bit more effort. The front strut will have to be detached, and possibly the shocks too so that the hub moves freely enough to let the arms out of the old member and into the new one. The CV joints allow enough movement for you to do it though, so at least you don't have to furtle with them.
Having done it both ways, I favour the detach-at-hub method because its less taxing on the swear box! if the inner bolts on the crossmember have seized into the bushes, there's a much better chance of getting them out when the crossmember is on the floor in free space. Generally, those outer hub bolts are a dman sight easier to shift
in situ!
Either method will work. Your choice.
One good solution to help you decide is to do a dry run ahead of time and see if you're going to be able to remove the inner four before you crack on for real. Don't be fooled if they turn OK......they tend to seize to the inner bush and the whole package turns so they won't come out. If you can get them out by more than 1cm you're good to go.
QuoteIs it worth getting the crossmember bolts/nuts that connect the crossmember to the rest of the chassis?
The bolts are fine thread and I know of one member who needed to replace a gnarly one, but thats not a common thing. Again, you could get under and have a go ahead of time and then you'll know for sure. Keep 'em dead square and lubed when replacing and you should be OK.
This all sounds like very good advice to me, I had no Idea you would struggle to detach and reinsert the arms to the crossmember without detaching them from the hub.
Is there two arms either side because one does the camber and the other does the toe?
Also is it worth getting replacement fittings for all four arms at both the crossmember and hub sides so that's 8 fittings on total or is that overkill? I've noticed you haven't mentioned Lower Suspension Arm 1 as needing bolts/ball joints, does that mean people rarely have problems remove arm No 1?
I also forgot I have a TTE exhaust so the gaskets Chris quoted me are probably wrong.
If it is just a back box, The gaskets are most likely the same actually
Quote from: "gaffer1986"I had no Idea you would struggle to detach and reinsert the arms to the crossmember without detaching them from the hub.
Nearly. If you go with your original plan you won't be detaching arms 1 & 2 from the hub..... but the strut rod and other gubbins tend to limit the hub's range of movement and are better off out of the way because the arms need to move outwards to disengage from the crossmember.
All in all (and from bitter swearing experience), life is easier if you remove 1 & 2 from the hub and worry about the crossmember ends when the old one is off. Doing it this way you'll need a ball joint splitter for no2. outer end.
Or .... you could mix and match - detach no.1 at the outer (hub) and no.2 at the inner (cam bolts). You have options! Up to you.
QuoteIs there two arms either side because one does the camber and the other does the toe?
Yes and Nearly. There are two arms each side. No.1 is fixed (inner is bushed, outer is bolted through the hub's bush), so it contributes to hub/wheel alignment but has no adjustment.
On a stock setup the only rear adjustment is toe, performed thru' no.2's cam bolts.
QuoteAlso is it worth getting replacement fittings for all four arms at both the crossmember and hub sides so that's 8 fittings on total or is that overkill? I've noticed you haven't mentioned Lower Suspension Arm 1 as needing bolts/ball joints, does that mean people rarely have problems remove arm No 1?
No.1 inner bolts are generally easier than the no.2 inner cam bolts but not a dead cert by any means. The no1 outer bolt rarely causes grief and the no2 outer ball joint nut is low-torque and will come off OK .... but you need that joint splitter to free the arm from the hub.
I'd be reluctant to advise you to spend loads of dosh on all new fittings when there's a good chance you can clean and re-use anything that comes off OK..... which is why I'd recommend a reconnaisance session prior to install to figure out what is going to be peachy and what isn't worth the angst. Its also a great opportunity to get stuff sprayed up and ready for the big swap s:D :D s:D
Must-have gaskets are 2x manifold-to-cat. You won't need to disturb the TTE exhaust and tips, so you don't need the TTE tip sealing rings and clamps from Chris.
The single cat-exhaust donut gasket is pricey. Its entirely optional. They generally reseal OK if you're reassembling the same parts. Only really a problem if you're changing either the cat or the exhaust, which you're not! My advice would be to leave the old one on the cat - on the offchance that it doesn't seal you can replace it later without too much grief.
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"If it is just a back box, The gaskets are most likely the same actually
I think it is just a back box, although it sounds pretty good, amazing how much difference a couple of pipes can make. I will probably try to reuse the gaskets for the CAT to exhaust as they are already pretty well mated.
Thank you Spit for your advice, it's really helpful and I appreciate your time. I did not reply earlier because I have been unable to log in since my last post Friday. All working now though.
Apparently I will be getting the crossmember delivered on Mon as Camskill are currently out of stock. I will get the fittings as advised which will help my girlfriends father (a royal mail mechanic) do the work, although I will probably lend a hand for the experience.
Just beware that if you split the ball joint arms from the hubs you are very likely to see a good bit of grease squeeze out from the joints. Mine have done this on two separate cars this week!
Depends what type of splitter you use s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "Meeerrrk"Depends what type of splitter you use s:) :) s:)
2 of my 3 disagree! s:D :D s:D
Maybe I was lucky, I tapped the end of the nut with it partially undone (with a dead weight hammer) - and they were ok. That said I wasn't keeping them so I didn't really care
Until today I hadn't bothered trying to check the crossmember as I assumed you couldn't see it, but turns out if you're willing to hug the ground the visibility is quite good.
I was quite surprised at what good condition it is in, considering I was told it wouldn't pass the next MOT there is only a little rust. See the pics, what do you think?
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14773465546_ea73f1f513_o.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5588/14609939477_c199c91d83_o.jpg)
In all honesty, I would probably replace it. The hole you can see in the centre of the picture, was very similar to how mine looked. When it was taken out, the slightest of pushes on the area made it crumble to pieces. They rust from the inside out.
For reference, this was Radu's Xmember a couple of weeks ago just before it was binned. Exactly as it came off a car that had sailed through the MOT. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/794x476q90/905/GhLyOw.jpg)
Rear toe bar could be displaced by hand and was almost completely free.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/794x476q90/743/eYlowS.jpg)
Can't really say this enough times: Check your crossmembers. Please don't assume that a 12 month ticket means your car is safe to drive.
Quote from: "gaffer1986"Until today I hadn't bothered trying to check the crossmember as I assumed you couldn't see it, but turns out if you're willing to hug the ground the visibility is quite good.
I was quite surprised at what good condition it is in, considering I was told it wouldn't pass the next MOT there is only a little rust. See the pics, what do you think?
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14773465546_ea73f1f513_o.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5588/14609939477_c199c91d83_o.jpg)
Mine wasn't that bad - I replaced it.
You should plan to replace in the next few months.
Quote from: "spit"For reference, this was Radu's Xmember a couple of weeks ago just before it was binned. Exactly as it came off a car that had sailed through the MOT. s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/794x476q90/905/GhLyOw.jpg)
Rear toe bar could be displaced by hand and was almost completely free.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/794x476q90/743/eYlowS.jpg)
Can't really say this enough times: Check your crossmembers. Please don't assume that a 12 month ticket means your car is safe to drive.
Holy shi.....
That's the worst I've seen. They are covered by the nappy but not even an advisory? Poor show.
That's terrible, I can see the crossmember quite clearly even with the nappy on. I have every intention of replacing it, it just wasn't as bad as I imagined. I've already bought a new one but found out that the inner nuts and bolts for all arms, outer ball joints for arm 2 and cat gaskets are £69, in two minds whether I should order them as there are hundreds of nuts and bolts in the workshop and I'm wondering are they really special sizes or would any nuts and bolts the same size will work.
There is a good used, blasted and powder coated one for sale in the forsale section. It's for a face lift but that is fine for a preface lift car
Quote from: "spit"(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/794x476q90/905/GhLyOw.jpg)
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:crazyeyes: :crazyeyes: s:crazyeyes: s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
It is a wonder how the car went in a straight line.
Quote from: "gaffer1986"..... found out that the inner nuts and bolts for all arms, outer ball joints for arm 2 and cat gaskets are £69, in two minds whether I should order them as there are hundreds of nuts and bolts in the workshop and I'm wondering are they really special sizes or would any nuts and bolts the same size will work.
The inner no2 bolts are profiled to work the cams, so you'll need to use the genuine article for those. You'd be lucky to find a generic match for the others too.
£69 is significant though. Think I've already suggested this - if you have the time, assess what you can re-use. Cleaned up, the old stuff works fine. You just need to be sure it comes off OK.
Quote from: "spit"Quote from: "gaffer1986"..... found out that the inner nuts and bolts for all arms, outer ball joints for arm 2 and cat gaskets are £69, in two minds whether I should order them as there are hundreds of nuts and bolts in the workshop and I'm wondering are they really special sizes or would any nuts and bolts the same size will work.
The inner no2 bolts are profiled to work the cams, so you'll need to use the genuine article for those. You'd be lucky to find a generic match for the others too.
£69 is significant though. Think I've already suggested this - if you have the time, assess what you can re-use. Cleaned up, the old stuff works fine. You just need to be sure it comes off OK.
Thank you, I intend to have a proper look sometime this weekend, also want to check the pre-cats. I've already seen the inner bolts and they definitely need replacement. I will just have to buy them I think.
They sell the ball joints separately for the rearmost arms? Didn't realise they came off.
Don't believe they do?
Never seen them taken off and Toyota don't list them separately.
Obviously misunderstood what the ball joints mentioned in gaffer's post were for.
I thought they were the ball joints that appear to be permanently attached to the lower arm closest to the rear of the car. My crossmember was finally delivered today after nearly 2 weeks wait. Paul (mechanic) has had a good look and says I don't need to buy new bolts, he will take a laser cutter to the crossmember near the inner bolts and press the bolts out and he can use the original ball joint. I'm surprised the ball joint still works, it all looks so rusty.
The ball joint definitely looks fixed to me.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3846/14659506599_be94bafc75_o.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5591/14659523688_18300063ae_o.jpg)
Fellas, for us less mechanically minded, could you explain where to look and how to inspect a cross-member on the car? These pictures of corroded ones are great (and worrying) but perhaps someone has a wider picture of the underside of an MR2 they could just draw an arrow on so we know what we're looking for?
Ta!
Best place to start is opening the engine cover, and look down past the exhaust manifold. The 6 inch or so wide piece of metal that runs left to right at the bottom is the cross member.
The black bar running left to right in the picture below.
(http://i694.photobucket.com/albums/vv308/mxcum167/MR2/IMG_1423_zpsf1623924.jpg) (http://s694.photobucket.com/user/mxcum167/media/MR2/IMG_1423_zpsf1623924.jpg.html) This photo was taken looking down through the engine bay.
Legend. Thanks