Did a search but didn't find what I want to know. So I will never drive on a track. I live in a super quiet bit of England with empty roads- E Cumbria. I've just put Yoko AD08Rs on last summer and they have made the car a bit stiffer. What do folk suggest that will stop the roll without making my fillings drop out?
Stiffer front anti-roll bar? Or have your shocks done the mileage that you think they need replaced?
Thanks Gaz, which roll bar do I buy? And do you mean just replace the shocks before the MOT says so? I'm a bit thick technically.
If the suspension has never been replaced, there's your "issue".
Two factors;mileage and age. Your car won't be newer than 13 years. So unless it's low mileage and always been garaged, it's due replacement.
Other cars manage ages on stock suspension but mr2s are a lot more sensitive to suspension.
From all accounts so far (including mine, but on coilovers), refreshing stock suspension seems to have the "it's like a new car" effect. And "best 800 ever spent" kind of thing.
Roll bar will just mask and paradoxically accentuate weaknesses in the rest of the suspension
That is really helpful. It is a December 05 car with about 45K on it so I guess it is all original. I'd prefer to keep it like that as I'm trying to renew the car but keep it original. Recently changed the front lights and had the body done.
Suspension refresh and a quality geo after.
Quote from: MVV on December 19, 2019, 08:45That is really helpful. It is a December 05 car with about 45K on it so I guess it is all original. I'd prefer to keep it like that as I'm trying to renew the car but keep it original. Recently changed the front lights and had the body done.
45k is definitely not too bad. I bought mine at 45k and by about 55k I had a leaking strut, which is why I changed. But if yours looks in good state, then the stiffer tyres may well just be accentuating the natural "give".
First suggestion I would have is a center brace. Roll bars, in my humble opinion, change the dynamics too much. The center brace really solidifies the car, without any loss in comfort but make the car feel much more planted. "Matt's brace", "tte brace", Snelbaard on here does one, and Carolyn has developed a monster center brace recently
If the struts and springs look done, then a suspension refresh is definitely for you.The defacto standard is KYB Excel-G shocks and springs can be anything from stock to H&R. All quite cheap (relatively) and not lowered. If the car is in good nick, you may not need new topmounts. So the whole thing may only set you back about 600 or so.
As others have said making sure everything you currently have is working correctly will be first thing, i found with my car it was all basically ok but still wasnt happy with floaty feeling, fitted Tein springs which helped a lot but showed up dampers were past best and while still functioning were struggling with a little extra spring rate, then fitted some Koni Sport dampers and now it rides and handles brilliantly :)
Im in Penrith cumbria if you ever want a ride in mine to compare :)
Like Ian above, I'm going the Koni route. Some people with a lot more knowledge than me have praised them, but you need to use the original strut housings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXSnNZt3NiI
If you get new front top mounts, go with quality parts like KYB. I originally ran ROCA top mounts with Tein springs, and the bearings were completely shot in under 20,000 miles.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on December 19, 2019, 20:11If you get new front top mounts, go with quality parts like KYB. I originally ran ROCA top mounts with Tein springs, and the bearings were completely shot in under 20,000 miles.
Are the KYB fronts readily available? I ended up with the Japanparts ones (and they fixed my vibration at 70mph so the old ones were truly shot).
Was fairly easy to find KYB rear top mounts online but struggled to find vendors for the fronts.
People suggested Avensis ones which admittedly look similar but wasn't a risk I was willing to take.
The KYB part # is SM5215 for the front mount. It is readily available in the US from many sources, but I don't know about the UK. Some US companies like RockAuto (https://www.rockauto.com/) ship international with reasonable rates. The KYB Europe website catalog only lists the rear mount SM5799. Oddly enough, the rear mount doesn't seem to be available in the US!
I got the top mounts from 'Autodoc'. O/E fronts are open ballraces with a rubber 'dust cover'. The ones from Autodoc have sealed Japanese-made bearings.
Take it that 'autodoc' is ok then.
Always been a little suspicious,
Is delivery an issue?, as in, can take a while.
Quote from: Ardent on December 21, 2019, 19:58Take it that 'autodoc' is ok then.
Always been a little suspicious,
Is delivery an issue?, as in, can take a while.
Delivery was quite prompt. There is a delivery charge, but even with that they were best-priced. It looks too that the bearings are replaceable, so if they do wear, replacing may be aption.
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on December 21, 2019, 17:14I got the top mounts from 'Autodoc'. O/E fronts are open ballraces with a rubber 'dust cover'. The ones from Autodoc have sealed Japanese-made bearings.
Same ones I've fitted then; Japanparts/Ashika are one and the same. As you say, a slightly different design to the stock ones.
Whiteline ARB helped a lot with body roll.
I sold my Meisters as I'm not doing as many track days at the moment... and got to say going back to OEM suspension on the road - it's so much better! I think if anything I've got more grip than with the coilovers.
Quote from: james_ly on January 8, 2020, 11:11I sold my Meisters as I'm not doing as many track days at the moment... and got to say going back to OEM suspension on the road - it's so much better! I think if anything I've got more grip than with the coilovers.
Thanks for that real world observation!
No one's mentioned it, but your bushes are old.
Replacing them makes the car feel tight and controlled - you know what all the wheels are doing. I highly recommend doing this along with your suspension refresh.
Quote from: jvanzyl on January 8, 2020, 11:49No one's mentioned it, but your bushes are old.
Replacing them makes the car feel tight and controlled - you know what all the wheels are doing. I highly recommend doing this along with your suspension refresh.
For those of us that aren't very clued up, which bushes specifically are the most important to replace? From what I can tell, a full set of suspension bushes is indeed a lot of bushes!
Quote from: househead on January 8, 2020, 12:39Quote from: jvanzyl on January 8, 2020, 11:49No one's mentioned it, but your bushes are old.
Replacing them makes the car feel tight and controlled - you know what all the wheels are doing. I highly recommend doing this along with your suspension refresh.
For those of us that aren't very clued up, which bushes specifically are the most important to replace? From what I can tell, a full set of suspension bushes is indeed a lot of bushes!
For reference I'm using the polybush diagram below:
IMG_20170530_124443468.jpg
Your droplinks (7R) will get replaced as a matter of course with your suspension refresh as you'll likely end up cutting them off.
ARB flex will be reduced with replacement of 7S and 7W and it's a relatively easy job to do - you could start with these and the drop links & see what the difference is.
7P and 7Q can be replaced by simply buying new control arms - we benefit from sharing a lot of components with the Yaris so you can buy replacements via this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-Toyota-Yaris-1999-2006-Lower-Front-Wishbones-Suspension-Arms-Pair/332659560803?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Now when it comes to the rear 7T, U & V these can be sourced from here hopefully it's a full set.
https://www.euspares.co.uk/parts-catalog/arm-bushes-10672/toyota/mr-2/mr-2-iii-zzw3/14535-1-8-16v-vt-i-zzw30
replacing all these bushes will mean that you'll need a full geo correction, you could also put some camber bolts on the rear if you wanted. And in case you wondered bushes are past their best circa 100 000 miles or 10 years.
In terms of whats the most important... well I would actually venture to say that's divided into two categories:
1 - Stability at speed. You know this is a problem when your sphincter starts to clench the faster you go because you just don't feel "connected" or certain as to what's going on. I would say that the rear bushes (TUV) will correct this.
2 - Exact cornering - These are going to be the front (P&Q) one's.
The crazy thing with all this is that you don't know what you're missing till you drive a car with a refreshed bush setup, going back to your old setup feels vague and worrisome but you don't realise it till you try something that's been fixed. Don't get me wrong, an MR2 with knackered bushes still corners better than most cars, but there is an incredible difference.
Doing things like adding braces make a great difference to stability and reduction of "crashiness" but it's a cumulative thing. The cars handling is made up the shocks, springs, bushes, bracing and tyres. Fix one and you'll feel an improvement and more stress will be placed on the other areas. Keep going and things just get better and better.
So it's up to you as to what you "feel" is most important at this time to fix.
If I had my time to do it again, I'd replace everything as stock (suspension struts and springs etc the whole unit), fit Yoko's, and fit a front strut brace and mid under brace (TTE/Carolyn plus Snelbaard) and replace all the bushes! THAT my friend will make it as good as it can get.
For reference I'm polybushed with TEIN coilovers and EDFC2, with Toyo Proxes tyres in the summer. The Toyo's are what lets my setup down I think (sometimes anyway... except when I get a puncture. Then I'm glad I cheaped out with the toyos instead of the yoko's...)
Thanks
@jvanzyl that's super informative and helpful! My front drop-links were done by previous owner when he put the Teins on, but it's likely they need doing again if they'll bu cut off! I'll definitely look into the rest, makes sense to do the bushes if new springs and (potentially) new dampers are going on. The full geo shouldn't be too expensive and will be worth it to have everything bang on.
Thanks again for taking the time to explain the various bushes!
Quote from: househead on January 8, 2020, 14:24Thanks @jvanzyl that's super informative and helpful! My front drop-links were done by previous owner when he put the Teins on, but it's likely they need doing again if they'll bu cut off! I'll definitely look into the rest, makes sense to do the bushes if new springs and (potentially) new dampers are going on. The full geo shouldn't be too expensive and will be worth it to have everything bang on.
Thanks again for taking the time to explain the various bushes!
No worries hey - just want everyone else to enjoy the upgrade as much as I did!
@jvanzyl , Thanks for that John, the bushes in the link you provided seem to be rubber as opposed to the poly material often referred to for replacements.
Whenever I've read reports about the poly bush replacement and subsequent ride it is generally considered to be firm. I'm guessing that these rubber bushes will be nearer to OE, that would better suit me.
Quote from: Joesson on January 8, 2020, 17:17@jvanzyl , Thanks for that John, the bushes in the link you provided seem to be rubber as opposed to the poly material often referred to for replacements.
Whenever I've read reports about the poly bush replacement and subsequent ride it is generally considered to be firm. I'm guessing that these rubber bushes will be nearer to OE, that would better suit me.
Yeah I think going with rubber in this instance is better as it's a road car. Having been down the poly route it's terrific having the responsiveness and telemetry - but if it were a bit more compliant to the road that'd be even better.
@jvanzyl I admit i need to re-read properly and follow the links.
But to echo
@Joesson, can you confirm the "polybush" set is actually rubber and not the much firmer "poly"
I have not desire for bone jarring ride, but would love to freshen up 15? year old bushes.
Mr T do not sell the bushes, need to buy the whole arm/bar/strut whatever they called.
If what you ref to is stock like. I'm in.
As I understand it, the poly bush set is polyurethane. The OEM bushes are rubber. I think John was just using that diagram so he could explain what bushes go where?
I read it as the poly bushes are a "like for like" replacement. Same size, same bushes, just a different (harder) material, right?
I would expect sets of bushes in both materials to be available, though I gather Toyota might not sell all of them and we might have to use aftermarket suppliers.
Have gone back and re read it slower.
Got it now.
@househead Yes, the pic is for location purposes. The link is meat on the bone. 1st time I have come across these.
Be nice if simply did a kit with the lot.
Kit A inc front arms/bushes
Kit B sans
My understanding is that the bushes 7P and 7Q can be replaced by complete replacement of the (Yaris) wish bones. The bushes alone may or may not be available from EU as the link, dimensional details of the OE wish bones and of the bushes would be necessary, but would you want the trouble of pressing them in and out and refurbishing the wish bone rather than replacing?
7R are the drop links, which as John says, are usually scrap and need replacement.
7T and 7V are the control arms and again the bushes from EU may or may not fit, dimensions need checking.
7S and 7W the anti roll bar bushes are out of stock on the EU site!
Unfortunately, as is often the case life is not straightforward.
Diagram was purely for reference.
I'm advocating using rubber bushes over polys- but you'll need to shop around to find them. It's not the end of the world to use polys over rubber. And different suppliers can provide different levels of stiffness.
For £40 it's totally worth replacing the front control arms as a whole unit as they come with the bushes.
Have a look at super pro and white line.
I have always held off replacing the front Arms on the basis, if I replaced the front, I need to sort the rear and it has always been the rear that has caused the most problems through lack of replacement bushes.
This years project perhaps.
Maybe this guy can shed some advice. He's a popular seller of poly stuff on the MR2 Facebook group. Lou Brooks.
https://www.facebook.com/Brooks.BRD/?eid=ARAc_cCZ74tNLoo60ntJK48x6WBuWRi3ib5o762-VvzuBZAa_WSI4WtKTicVfOYrXdxR60ONZZbnY2vI&timeline_context_item_type=intro_card_work&timeline_context_item_source=100000176728544&fref=tag
Will have to leave that to someone else.
Not on FB.
Quote from: Ardent on January 8, 2020, 20:52Will have to leave that to someone else.
Not on FB.
............ https://www.brooks-brd.co.uk/products.html
Cheers
I couldn't get the link for the wishbones to work.
Have found this
https://www.energizedcustoms.co.uk/for-toyota-yaris-1999-2006-lower-front-wishbones-suspension-arms-pair-68041.html#prodreview
They are UK based and offer a pair for £43.95. Not sure of any delivery cost.
What was price in the other link?
Quote from: Joesson on January 8, 2020, 22:21I couldn't get the link for the wishbones to work.
Have found this
https://www.energizedcustoms.co.uk/for-toyota-yaris-1999-2006-lower-front-wishbones-suspension-arms-pair-68041.html#prodreview
They are UK based and offer a pair for £43.95. Not sure of any delivery cost.
What was price in the other link?
There is a bit of me that thinks who cares. Whatever the delivery, it has got to cheaper and quicker than ordering from the states where some have had to go. (as i understand)
Well found Sir. Cap duly doffed.
Edit
In the non too distant past, I had bit of a hang up about, will the sure or shure rating of the rubber bush be correct.
I'm past that now.
I'm now, more of the opinion, fresh, will be better than 15 years old.
Ok. Here we go again.
Caveat - I am not doubting validity of the parts in question.
But.
In the pursuit of information - clarity - knowledge etc.
The Yaris part = 48069 - 09040
The 2 Part = 48069 - 19156
So what is the difference? Is there a difference? Is it simply to help Toyota differentiate? (doubt it)
Is the size all matching but difference is the sure/shure rating of the rubber?
Alway more questions than answers.
Is a yaris heavier than a 2?
If so, would that make the yaris bushes stiffer to account for the extra weight?
If that is so, would that go some way to making the 2 taughter, if still rubber a bit stiffer without the full fat poly option?
.
The Yaris part = 48069 - 09040 according to a Chinese manufacturer is suitable for use on the following vehicles.
Toyota Urban Cruiser
Toyota Verso S
Toyota Yaris
I will check the weights of these vehicles, but it would seem that the vehicle weight is not a critical issue for this component.
One has to understand that much of the Roadster is a 'parts-bin' car. Many components, including little ones, like the engine, are common to an international range of cars. I put American Scion A-arms on my car, and they are great. The same A arms do for other cars as well, including the Yaris.
I can't imagine that Toyota went to the expense of ordering up different rubber specs for different small cars.
Parts for our cars that are very specific, are ones dictated by the mid-engine layout, the power steering for instance.
Quote from: Joesson on January 8, 2020, 22:21I couldn't get the link for the wishbones to work.
Have found this
https://www.energizedcustoms.co.uk/for-toyota-yaris-1999-2006-lower-front-wishbones-suspension-arms-pair-68041.html#prodreview
They are UK based and offer a pair for £43.95. Not sure of any delivery cost.
What was price in the other link?
I fitted the EnergizedCustoms ones last year. Been fine. On their eBay outlet (free postage) they had two types, one of which was about £8 more expensive (I paid £39.55 according to my emails). Ordered the cheaper ones and they arrived with the sticker / part number of the more expensive ones. Seems a lot of eBay sellers have multiple listings and just hope you 'buy now' on the first one you land on.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/332659560803
I've fitted Energised Custom Yaris arms, ebay anti roll bar bushes and new drop links from ebay (they probably won't come with the middle washer so you'll need to use the original)
All fit well but it's still in the unit so haven't driven it yet
There's a groupon deal at the minute for a garage round the corner from me that will do a 4 wheel alignment for £20 so am going to give them a go - if they're rubbish it's not the end of the world at £20
Quote from: tets on January 9, 2020, 12:54I've fitted Energised Custom Yaris arms, ebay anti roll bar bushes and new drop links from ebay (they probably won't come with the middle washer so you'll need to use the original)
All fit well but it's still in the unit so haven't driven it yet
There's a groupon deal at the minute for a garage round the corner from me that will do a 4 wheel alignment for £20 so am going to give them a go - if they're rubbish it's not the end of the world at £20
Which roll bar bushes did you use? cheers!
Which roll bar bushes did you use? cheers!
[/quote]
I used these ones Carolyn
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-NEW-J72049YMT-YAMATO-FRONT-ANTI-ROLL-BAR-STABILISER-BUSH-KIT-I-OE-REPLACEMENT/401611143673?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Quote from: MVV on December 18, 2019, 23:24Did a search but didn't find what I want to know. So I will never drive on a track. I live in a super quiet bit of England with empty roads- E Cumbria. I've just put Yoko AD08Rs on last summer and they have made the car a bit stiffer. What do folk suggest that will stop the roll without making my fillings drop out?
Going back to the original post:
Just went for a 100 km. fun drive over B-roads through the andalucian mountains under a clear blue sky.
With sub zero nights and the olive harvest at full bore, the roads cán be a bit tricky with black ice in perma-shade and dry mud in just about any corner.
Also, although generally roads are very well maintained, there are tarred over croack and ruts, patched frost damage either, sometimes the patch part gone again.
Bottom line; GRÉAT roads with real world circumstances.
Had charming company in the passenger seat so the crutches juggled behind the seats. Pushed them tight so they wouldn´t rattle.
Standard OEM, as innever replaced anything. Just the springs cut down a bit to compensate for the lighter car; lowering it to stock ride hight again.
As for bracing, only the front struts, belly pan and Dev´s.
Yes, the lighter Enkeis, those dó make a difference.
Ok, so did not flóg it, kept it sensible on the straight bits, but did seriously push it through corners; on the traction limits of warmed up AD08s.
Goes like stink, tracks true. No rattles, no complaints about comfort from the passsenger. Mind, that is with the grp race buckets!
No problem with ´roll´.
My question to the original poster is what problem he percieves with ´roll´. Weight transfer on initial turn in, body lean mid corner, wallowing or float at speed, or?
Quote from: tets on January 9, 2020, 13:09Which roll bar bushes did you use? cheers!
I used these ones Carolyn
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-NEW-J72049YMT-YAMATO-FRONT-ANTI-ROLL-BAR-STABILISER-BUSH-KIT-I-OE-REPLACEMENT/401611143673?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
[/quote]
Those look a bit different to my poly bushes.. can anyone say what the difference is compared to oem? Heck if they work then no worries, it's just that I'd assume there'd be a lip that the collar would fit within to keep it in place.
Quote from: jvanzyl on January 9, 2020, 13:36Quote from: tets on January 9, 2020, 13:09Which roll bar bushes did you use? cheers!
I used these ones Carolyn
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-NEW-J72049YMT-YAMATO-FRONT-ANTI-ROLL-BAR-STABILISER-BUSH-KIT-I-OE-REPLACEMENT/401611143673?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
Those look a bit different to my poly bushes.. can anyone say what the difference is compared to oem? Heck if they work then no worries, it's just that I'd assume there'd be a lip that the collar would fit within to keep it in place.
[/quote]
It does say it's a generic pic in the ad - I can't rightly remember but I definitely don't remember thinking anything odd about them
Ah right- missed the generic pic bit..
Spotted this... https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/car-brands/spare-parts-toyota/yaris-scp9-nsp9-ksp9-ncp9-zsp9/19256/10671/steering-links-control-arm-trailing-link-diagonal-arm.html
Quote from: Ars1e on August 14, 2020, 22:32Spotted this... https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/car-brands/spare-parts-toyota/yaris-scp9-nsp9-ksp9-ncp9-zsp9/19256/10671/steering-links-control-arm-trailing-link-diagonal-arm.html
Another good source of cheap parts. Cheers
Still not sure about the cheapies I have in the garage and whether to bother fitting them
I would like to ask advice and for your opinions:- I want to improve the dampers (shocks) but don't fancy lowering that much, the choices are not great for the MR2, I like the KONI's with standard springs or maybe some stiffer but not that lower (I know someone that may be able to do these) but what puts me off is the fitting of them in the old rusty damper bodies, I would have to wire brush and paint or send for coating, either way it turns a 2-3 hour job into a major overhaul, (even if you do spray them the same day you still have to wait for them to dry etc).
If you look at the price of koni sports for other cars some are cheaper and they have the strut and spring mount welded on, they could have brake line and abs mounts on one of those adjustable mounts you get with coilovers, this in itself puts me off them. I could buy 2 2nd hand dampers, cut them and have them coated first but the cheapest ive seen are 30+20 post each plus aprox 30 powder coat plus £144 is £224 each side without springs, If I do all 4 i'm into £900. Then I start thinking should I just buy some coilovers with adjustable ride height ?
I wish Bilstien just made some B6's for this car.
There are loads of coilover kits from £600-£1800 I get the idea that us drivers want to improve our handling, but the main aim of the coilover manufacturer is just to sell somthing that lowers the car, stiffens the damping and that looks good when you get it out of the box but in reality the quality is no better if not worse than the standard dampers, I'm only going off what I have read but most of the coilovers are not matched pairs and the adjustments are mostly useless.
Sorry I'm just having a rant. But would still value your opinions. Thank you.
Kong are probably your best bet unfortunately. Although don't look past stock KYB going to be better than what's been on the car for the last 14 years.
The cheaper coilover kits aren't for everyone. I like my meister R but they're not for everyone especially on poor surfaces.
Maybe Tein would be better but they're even more money.
Agreed is a shame bilstein or ohlins don't do something for our cars.
It is annoying Koni only make inserts for these cars and not complete bolt on units, like the Konis i have on my BM and previous ones as well, however i guess we should just be thankful they make anything at all as there seem so little out there that is decent for these cars now.
Quote from: thetyrant on November 19, 2020, 14:39It is annoying Koni only make inserts for these cars and not complete bolt on units, like the Konis i have on my BM and previous ones as well, however i guess we should just be thankful they make anything at all as there seem so little out there that is decent for these cars now.
https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/uprated/koni-sport-suspension-kits/toyota/mr2.html
@toyodaI believe it was
@1979scotte that pointed these out recently.
As was observed fresh KYBs are a world of improovement over tired ones.
Also it is a doddle at very little expense to have your own springs made to spec in the UK by several specialists.
Last year, I replaced my springs and shocks with KYB and OEM springs. The improvement was massive- I discovered how one of these must have felt when it was factory-fresh, and it was good!
Sometimes 'uprating' is not an improvement?
Quote from: Petrus on November 19, 2020, 14:56As was observed fresh KYBs are a world of improovement over tired ones.
Also it is a doddle at very little expense to have your own springs made to spec in the UK by several specialists.
Let's try getting some made up to Sportivo spec then. Maybe try with Koni inserts.
Just got some Yaris wishbones for our Yaris, which has been no bother n a cracking car tbh with its 130k miles, cost me £44 and mot advisory for slight play, so is a no brainer. I'm thinking I'll change these and use the Toyota old ones after a rebush on the mr2. My question is, can someone recommend a supplier of the bushes, perhaps poly ?? Thanks
Quote from: Mr2paul on November 19, 2020, 16:26Just got some Yaris wishbones for our Yaris, which has been no bother n a cracking car tbh with its 130k miles, cost me £44 and mot advisory for slight play, so is a no brainer. I'm thinking I'll change these and use the Toyota old ones after a rebush on the mr2. My question is, can someone recommend a supplier of the bushes, perhaps poly ?? Thanks
That's TCB on here who supply SuperPro
Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 14:51https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/uprated/koni-sport-suspension-kits/toyota/mr2.html
@toyoda
I believe it was @1979scotte that pointed these out recently.
Bit deceiving that as while it looks like a complete kit you only get inserts to go into your cut struts, plus a set of springs but its not complete bolt on units as you might think from looking at pictures.
Fitting the inserts is not difficult but it is more work than just swapping complete damper units of course.
Quote from: thetyrant on November 19, 2020, 16:40Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 14:51https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/uprated/koni-sport-suspension-kits/toyota/mr2.html
@toyoda
I believe it was @1979scotte that pointed these out recently.
Bit deceiving that as while it looks like a complete kit you only get inserts to go into your cut struts, plus a set of springs but its not complete bolt on units as you might think from looking at pictures.
Fitting the inserts is not difficult but it is more work than just swapping complete damper units of course.
Quote from: thetyrant on November 19, 2020, 16:40Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 14:51https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/uprated/koni-sport-suspension-kits/toyota/mr2.html
@toyoda
I believe it was @1979scotte that pointed these out recently.
Bit deceiving that as while it looks like a complete kit you only get inserts to go into your cut struts, plus a set of springs but its not complete bolt on units as you might think from looking at pictures.
Fitting the inserts is not difficult but it is more work than just swapping complete damper units of course.
Well, if that is right they should be shot for misrepresentation, this is part of the text with that offer:
"Koni Sports Kits come with four adjustable (yellow) Sport shocks and a matching set of H&R lowering springs. Koni Sports (yellow) shocks are ....."
Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 16:45Well, if that is right they should be shot for misrepresentation, this is part of the text with that offer:
"Koni Sports Kits come with four adjustable (yellow) Sport shocks and a matching set of H&R lowering springs. Koni Sports (yellow) shocks are ....."
I looked at these, you really do have to read the description, it does say that they are for use with original struts though, the problem sometimes is terminology.
Rob
Quote from: Zxrob on November 19, 2020, 17:10Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 16:45Well, if that is right they should be shot for misrepresentation, this is part of the text with that offer:
"Koni Sports Kits come with four adjustable (yellow) Sport shocks and a matching set of H&R lowering springs. Koni Sports (yellow) shocks are ....."
I looked at these, you really do have to read the description, it does say that they are for use with original struts though, the problem sometimes is terminology.
Rob
Your certainly not wrong, caveat emptor, an excellent example!
I suppose what they are suggesting is that the shocks will be yellow, if you paint them!
Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 17:17Quote from: Zxrob on November 19, 2020, 17:10Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 16:45Well, if that is right they should be shot for misrepresentation, this is part of the text with that offer:
"Koni Sports Kits come with four adjustable (yellow) Sport shocks and a matching set of H&R lowering springs. Koni Sports (yellow) shocks are ....."
I looked at these, you really do have to read the description, it does say that they are for use with original struts though, the problem sometimes is terminology.
Rob
Your certainly not wrong, caveat emptor, an excellent example!
I suppose what they are suggesting is that the shocks will be yellow, if you paint them!
Would have been so easy to advertise as " adjustable damper and springs", problem is, folks see the term "shock absorber" and take it as the complete kit
Rob
Quote from: Zxrob on November 19, 2020, 19:28Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 17:17Quote from: Zxrob on November 19, 2020, 17:10Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 16:45Well, if that is right they should be shot for misrepresentation, this is part of the text with that offer:
"Koni Sports Kits come with four adjustable (yellow) Sport shocks and a matching set of H&R lowering springs. Koni Sports (yellow) shocks are ....."
I looked at these, you really do have to read the description, it does say that they are for use with original struts though, the problem sometimes is terminology.
Rob
Your certainly not wrong, caveat emptor, an excellent example!
I suppose what they are suggesting is that the shocks will be yellow, if you paint them!
Would have been so easy to advertise as " adjustable damper and springs", problem is, folks see the term "shock absorber" and take it as the complete kit
Rob
You are too kind and forgiving!
Who else sells
diy shock absorber/ dampers (call them what you will) ?
I find it difficult to believe that there is not some attempt to deceive, there is a "generic picture/ not the actual product" that looks suspiciously like a complete assembly. The worded description actually describes the colour!
I confess I had bookmarked these for possible consideration, I really would have been very unhappy if I had bought that box of bits.
Thankfully you have your eyes very wide open.
Quote from: Zxrob on November 19, 2020, 17:10Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 16:45Well, if that is right they should be shot for misrepresentation, this is part of the text with that offer:
"Koni Sports Kits come with four adjustable (yellow) Sport shocks and a matching set of H&R lowering springs. Koni Sports (yellow) shocks are ....."
I looked at these, you really do have to read the description, it does say that they are for use with original struts though, the problem sometimes is terminology.
Rob
I was alerted by the blurp about the photos not neccessarily representing the actual product. The photos of the áctual product make it totally obvious.
I felt rather ´tricked´ at first too.
Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 20:13I find it difficult to believe that there is not some attempt to deceive, there is a "generic picture/ not the actual product" that looks suspiciously like a complete assembly. The worded description actually describes the colour!
You are spot on there, you first see the pics, you think,hmm, you then read the product description, not quite what it appears
Rob
What the big print. Giveth.
The small print taketh away.
@toyoda You asked a question and I apologise if I have muddied the waters, but
@Zxrob cleared them again. It does highlight the problem of today in that we do not see what we pay for as so much is done via the www. But looking at that positively without this Forum, that lives in the middle of that web, I would be none the wiser about the Kone INSERTS! And maybe it's highlighted that for some other readers also.
A good reseller will let you know on point of ordering about the insert situation in case you missed it in the advert as its not always clear, things like that sorts the good ones out from the race to the bottom box shifters who just want you money and dont give a stuff!
This is the problem with www shopping and why we dont have a online shop at work, to do it right and get all the details i feel you should have it takes a lot of time and effort, i much prefer my customers to contact me via email/phone so i can discuss their requirements and find a product to suit, rather than let them just hit a button on a webshop and then possibly buy the wrong thing for their needs :)
On the flip side you get those people who ask your advice then ignore it anyway, and buy what they clearly had in mind already. So frustrating!
Quote from: Carolyn on November 19, 2020, 15:20Last year, I replaced my springs and shocks with KYB and OEM springs. The improvement was massive- I discovered how one of these must have felt when it was factory-fresh, and it was good!
Sometimes 'uprating' is not an improvement?
Good morning. Can you please tell me where you perchased your shocks and springs please?
Quote from: Smithy on November 20, 2020, 10:49Quote from: Carolyn on November 19, 2020, 15:20Last year, I replaced my springs and shocks with KYB and OEM springs. The improvement was massive- I discovered how one of these must have felt when it was factory-fresh, and it was good!
Sometimes 'uprating' is not an improvement?
Good morning. Can you please tell me where you perchased your shocks and springs please?
I bought the shocks from different suppliers on EBAY. I was quite patient, waiting for the best price to pop up. I think it ended up just over £60 per shock.
Springs, hmmm as I recall I got one set from a member who had sold his car and was left with spares he hadn't used, and the other from TCB, I think.
Quote from: AdamR28 on November 20, 2020, 10:42On the flip side you get those people who ask your advice then ignore it anyway, and buy what they clearly had in mind already. So frustrating!
"Advice" in some areas is regulated! I remember in the early 70's there was some sort of diktat concerning the giving of advice and experienced a private electrical goods retailer's understanding of it. We wanted a replacement vacuum cleaner and thought a Henry would be a good purchase. The guy said he could not advise, nor recommend the product but instead emptied an ashtray or something similarly messy on the carpet of the shop floor. He then Henry'd it up. We bought one, with a metal container, it was used for general domestic cleaning and also some serious work when we renovated or decorated the house, it lasted decades.
When Henry finally expired I telephoned the company and told them of his passing, that guy was a credit to his Company and agreed that they had had some success with their product. We bought another!
One sale was face to face the second was based on a telephone conversation.With that established confidence I would likely buy another Henry, of necessity via the www, but I believe I may have to wait a long time.
Quote from: Carolyn on November 20, 2020, 11:24Quote from: Smithy on November 20, 2020, 10:49Quote from: Carolyn on November 19, 2020, 15:20Last year, I replaced my springs and shocks with KYB and OEM springs. The improvement was massive- I discovered how one of these must have felt when it was factory-fresh, and it was good!
Sometimes 'uprating' is not an improvement?
Good morning. Can you please tell me where you perchased your shocks and springs please?
I bought the shocks from different suppliers on EBAY. I was quite patient, waiting for the best price to pop up. I think it ended up just over £60 per shock.
Springs, hmmm as I recall I got one set from a member who had sold his car and was left with spares he hadn't used, and the other from TCB, I think.
thank you.
I have just fully refreshed the suspension on my 55 SMT Turbo - full set of shocks from Paul at TCB, set of nearly new lowering springs from Dick, and front/rear ARB links plus polybushes for the ARB to chassis brackets.
It has transformed the handling. Still fine on the road, deals with potholes / crinkles well, but very little body roll now and sticks to the inside of roundabouts like glue - even in boost. Also slightly oversized Toyo TR1s (205 frt / 225 rear) which are excellent and much better than the old T1Rs they replace. Car was fitted with RE040s all round and the Toyos are noticeably better, especially traction under boost.
Car is a 55 SMT Turbo approx 247WHP / 260Lb Ft at 11-13psi with 31k miles. GTX2860RS, DW 440 Injectors, homebrew w/a chargecooler, Malian downpipe, manifold and single 2.5" catless system.
I'm very surprised what an OEM refresh plus upgraded polybushes has done to the handling. I have yet to fit the polybushes in the rear suspension links yet - that's a job for winter!
Quote from: lancs_lad on November 25, 2020, 15:02I have just fully refreshed the suspension on my 55 SMT Turbo - full set of shocks from Paul at TCB, set of nearly new lowering springs from Dick, and front/rear ARB links plus polybushes for the ARB to chassis brackets.
It has transformed the handling. Still fine on the road, deals with potholes / crinkles well, but very little body roll now and sticks to the inside of roundabouts like glue - even in boost. Also slightly oversized Toyo TR1s (205 frt / 225 rear) which are excellent and much better than the old T1Rs they replace. Car was fitted with RE040s all round and the Toyos are noticeably better, especially traction under boost.
Car is a 55 SMT Turbo approx 247WHP / 260Lb Ft at 11-13psi with 31k miles. GTX2860RS, DW 440 Injectors, homebrew w/a chargecooler, Malian downpipe, manifold and single 2.5" catless system.
I'm very surprised what an OEM refresh plus upgraded polybushes has done to the handling. I have yet to fit the polybushes in the rear suspension links yet - that's a job for winter!
260 ftlb at the wheels?
Who mapped it and what ecu?
Didn't fancy something with bit more grip like AD08R or 595rs?
I would hope the TR1 would be better than RE040 they've been out of production for a good while now.
Never liked 205 on the front personally. Made the steering heavy.
How's the gearbox and clutch holding up?
Fresh stock suspension. Takes some beating.
Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 14:51Quote from: thetyrant on November 19, 2020, 14:39It is annoying Koni only make inserts for these cars and not complete bolt on units, like the Konis i have on my BM and previous ones as well, however i guess we should just be thankful they make anything at all as there seem so little out there that is decent for these cars now.
https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/uprated/koni-sport-suspension-kits/toyota/mr2.html
@toyoda
I believe it was @1979scotte that pointed these out recently.
Yes these are the KONI's and it lokks like you get 4 proper Mcpherson struts and springs, but notice it says for original shocks only, that means they are inserts, (you have to saw the tops off your dampers and drill ahole to bolt the insert in. The picture lies.
Quote from: toyoda on November 26, 2020, 22:19Quote from: Joesson on November 19, 2020, 14:51Quote from: thetyrant on November 19, 2020, 14:39It is annoying Koni only make inserts for these cars and not complete bolt on units, like the Konis i have on my BM and previous ones as well, however i guess we should just be thankful they make anything at all as there seem so little out there that is decent for these cars now.
https://www.dcperformance.co.uk/uprated/koni-sport-suspension-kits/toyota/mr2.html
@toyoda
I believe it was @1979scotte that pointed these out recently.
Yes these are the KONI's and it lokks like you get 4 proper Mcpherson struts and springs, but notice it says for original shocks only, that means they are inserts, (you have to saw the tops off your dampers and drill ahole to bolt the insert in. The picture lies.
Thank you, I am aware of that now. I was interested for future reference, but this discussion will hopefully make others aware that " The picture lies" and the comment " for original shocks only" would not get a " Crystal Clear" award if it was a financial document.
The accompanying text also refers to the colour as being blue and yellow just to compound the lies.
Strange, as those that have used this system generally seem pleased with the result.
Not for me however.
Look what I found on Yahoo auctions,
i-img1200x675-1606134966fef2mq219356.jpg
Bilstein Ennepetal with swift springs and cusco top mounts.
I priced them up as they are 120000 yen, which is only £862.
Price to JDMDistro is £1545 landed in Ireland so prob £1600-1700 by the time they get to Yorkshire.
I will not be buying unfortunately, (due to price, christmas, daughters new bed etc), but just to let you know if you wanted anything importing its my first try and I did not know what I was doing so I watched some u tube videos and then contacted 4 well known companies about getting these and only one company replied, in fact I sent the email late tuesday night and they replied before I woke on wednesday morning with a price and date of arival.
Thank you Sean.i-img1200x675-1606134966fef2mq219356.jpg
Quote from: toyoda on November 26, 2020, 22:37Look what I found on Yahoo auctions,
Bilstein Ennepetal with swift springs and cusco top mounts.
NÍCE find!!
That is about the best set you can buy for this car.
With the caveat ´whích Swift springs as they make from 3 to 10 kg ones for this application. Swift also made the TRD Race springs.
That said, they are definitely overkill if you don´t drive the car on the limits of high grip rubber hoops.
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Quote from: 1979scotte on November 25, 2020, 15:11Quote from: lancs_lad on November 25, 2020, 15:02I have just fully refreshed the suspension on my 55 SMT Turbo - full set of shocks from Paul at TCB, set of nearly new lowering springs from Dick, and front/rear ARB links plus polybushes for the ARB to chassis brackets.
It has transformed the handling. Still fine on the road, deals with potholes / crinkles well, but very little body roll now and sticks to the inside of roundabouts like glue - even in boost. Also slightly oversized Toyo TR1s (205 frt / 225 rear) which are excellent and much better than the old T1Rs they replace. Car was fitted with RE040s all round and the Toyos are noticeably better, especially traction under boost.
Car is a 55 SMT Turbo approx 247WHP / 260Lb Ft at 11-13psi with 31k miles. GTX2860RS, DW 440 Injectors, homebrew w/a chargecooler, Malian downpipe, manifold and single 2.5" catless system.
I'm very surprised what an OEM refresh plus upgraded polybushes has done to the handling. I have yet to fit the polybushes in the rear suspension links yet - that's a job for winter!
260 ftlb at the wheels?
Who mapped it and what ecu?
Didn't fancy something with bit more grip like AD08R or 595rs?
I would hope the TR1 would be better than RE040 they've been out of production for a good while now.
Never liked 205 on the front personally. Made the steering heavy.
How's the gearbox and clutch holding up?
All good so far - just dropped the gearbox oil after 3k and all good. Build details in the 1zz FI section - but its an AEM EMS4 home mapped then tweaked by Wayne at Chipwizards for max torque under the curve. He also tweaked the boost curve a bit to help fill in the holes. Clutch is an Exedy Stage 2 organic rated to 240+ and is a great match for the SMT system.
I've nearly finished refreshing a set of 4 16" rear stock rims - I might put AD08Rs on just for summer use. Used the TR1s because they are cheap, good year round tyres, and I really need to get a 4 wheel alignment done and didn't want to take the chance of ruining an expensive set of tyres. And they are brilliant for the price.
Seemed a relevant post....
I've been having lots of back/forth with BC today over email.
I asked whether they do a rebuild service. They do.
24gbp for a strip down and analysis per corner and then they come back to you with their recommendation. You can then pick/choose.
Did say a new damper is almost always required after shocks of my age (says a lot doesn't it.. 50k?). That's 110 per corner.
Best case scenario, 134x4=536? Only 100 off from what I paid originally. Granted I know I got them for a steal so I have to discount that.
Putting it against the alternatives. Going full KYB/stock, as I'd need everything, looking at what, 850?
Other coilies; 900-1400 (or higher obviously).
Koni+H&R; same as full stock but slightly more. Say 1000.
So then a rebuild doesn't sound too bad... And they can do whatever valving I want, suited to the springs and car.
Hmm..
BC parts seem to be taking about a month to arrive just so you are aware.
Quote from: shnazzle on April 15, 2021, 15:55Seemed a relevant post....
I've been having lots of back/forth with BC today over email.
I asked whether they do a rebuild service. They do.
24gbp for a strip down and analysis per corner and then they come back to you with their recommendation. You can then pick/choose.
Did say a new damper is almost always required after shocks of my age (says a lot doesn't it.. 50k?). That's 110 per corner.
Best case scenario, 134x4=536? Only 100 off from what I paid originally. Granted I know I got them for a steal so I have to discount that.
Putting it against the alternatives. Going full KYB/stock, as I'd need everything, looking at what, 850?
Other coilies; 900-1400 (or higher obviously).
Koni+H&R; same as full stock but slightly more. Say 1000.
So then a rebuild doesn't sound too bad... And they can do whatever valving I want, suited to the springs and car.
Hmm..
Koni or stock mate would be my choice these days.
What he said^!
I think £850 for stock is a bit worse case? I would always go for lowering springs myself but thats just me!
Plus your BCs would be saleable?
Got my stock kyb springs an shockers for about £350. When they come up on offer on ebay theres quite a savings to be had.
Im going to risk my original top mounts, these can be pricey but i think your £850 is a tad high. 👍
Quote from: Iain on April 15, 2021, 21:23Got my stock kyb springs an shockers for about £350. When they come up on offer on ebay theres quite a savings to be had.
Im going to risk my original top mounts, these can be pricey but i think your £850 is a tad high. 👍
That's good to hear. If I can find a deal on a fresh-ish set of struts, the Koni+H&R is definitely something I'd consider
Edit; didn't see my latest email. Quoted at 675 excl shipping for refurb of my shocks. That's a no.
He did recommend the DS series. At 999...no.
So, back to square 1 :)
Stock is no my bag. As much as I like Helen's car, I just don't like the wallowy nature of the stock suspension. Not after 5 years of coilovers. Most likely candidate is koni+H&R then
We have been running Koni and H&R and find it a very nice combination. We ran Tein-S springs for a number of years, but the H&R work a bit better. They don't lower quite as much, seem slightly stiffer, and match the Koni's very well. We started with new KYB with the Tein springs, but the damping didn't work well with the stiffer springs.
If you are concerned about longevity, I bought a set of struts with used Koni's that had over 90,000 miles. The fronts had significant rod wear, but we ran the rears for almost 10,000 more miles before they were replaced by new ones. The difference was almost insignificant
Quote from: shnazzle on April 15, 2021, 21:32Quote from: Iain on April 15, 2021, 21:23Got my stock kyb springs an shockers for about £350. When they come up on offer on ebay theres quite a savings to be had.
Im going to risk my original top mounts, these can be pricey but i think your £850 is a tad high. 👍
That's good to hear. If I can find a deal on a fresh-ish set of struts, the Koni+H&R is definitely something I'd consider
Edit; didn't see my latest email. Quoted at 675 excl shipping for refurb of my shocks. That's a no.
He did recommend the DS series. At 999...no.
So, back to square 1 :)
Stock is no my bag. As much as I like Helen's car, I just don't like the wallowy nature of the stock suspension. Not after 5 years of coilovers. Most likely candidate is koni+H&R then
How old are the struts on Helen's car?
Quote from: Carolyn on April 16, 2021, 08:23Quote from: shnazzle on April 15, 2021, 21:32Quote from: Iain on April 15, 2021, 21:23Got my stock kyb springs an shockers for about £350. When they come up on offer on ebay theres quite a savings to be had.
Im going to risk my original top mounts, these can be pricey but i think your £850 is a tad high. 👍
That's good to hear. If I can find a deal on a fresh-ish set of struts, the Koni+H&R is definitely something I'd consider
Edit; didn't see my latest email. Quoted at 675 excl shipping for refurb of my shocks. That's a no.
He did recommend the DS series. At 999...no.
So, back to square 1 :)
Stock is no my bag. As much as I like Helen's car, I just don't like the wallowy nature of the stock suspension. Not after 5 years of coilovers. Most likely candidate is koni+H&R then
How old are the struts on Helen's car?
My thought exactly
Rears are quite fresh fronts less so.
But I thought the same of the SP240 we had. That was very low mileage and TTE springs
Quote from: shnazzle on April 16, 2021, 12:46Rears are quite fresh fronts less so.
But I thought the same of the SP240 we had. That was very low mileage and TTE springs
Yeah but that had oodles more power.
Wasn't in the best of nick either was it?
Quote from: 1979scotte on April 16, 2021, 12:58Quote from: shnazzle on April 16, 2021, 12:46Rears are quite fresh fronts less so.
But I thought the same of the SP240 we had. That was very low mileage and TTE springs
Yeah but that had oodles more power.
Wasn't in the best of nick either was it?
Regardless of power (couldn't use it anyway). The cornering was wallowy. Suspension was in absolutely fine nick. Rest of the car not so much...
Anyone running vmaxx lowering springs on oem shocks? if so what's the ride like for road use?
Anyone know a good place to get replacement rubbers from? The only options I can find are purchasing the full component from Toyota with the bushes in them or going poly which I'm not really looking to do with the added stiffening...
@EJMK3 Is a real problem. If you find anything do let us know.
I would like to replace mine, with fresh stock. But either full arms from Mr T. Or poly/superpro.
Don't fancy either. Stock is hard to beat on these cars.
Quote from: Ardent on July 10, 2021, 17:05@EJMK3
Is a real problem. If you find anything do let us know.
I would like to replace mine, with fresh stock. But either full arms from Mr T. Or poly/superpro.
Don't fancy either. Stock is hard to beat on these cars.
I'll keep you updated, waiting to hear back from Paul at TCB, I think he is our only hope here!
Quote from: Ardent on July 10, 2021, 17:05@EJMK3
Is a real problem. If you find anything do let us know.
I would like to replace mine, with fresh stock. But either full arms from Mr T. Or poly/superpro.
Don't fancy either. Stock is hard to beat on these cars.
I think I mentioned this before. Don't fear the Superpro poly. They are every bit as good as the original rubber and they hold their composure for a very long time with no squeaks. I am against many aftermarket replacment parts because there is always some sort of drawback that is not OEM quality but with these they were done right and are replacement bushings not performance ones. The only stiffness that will be appreciated will be from going from worn bushings to new.
I would never get aftermarket arms because either they have poor quality. The OEM are expensive but worth it and that is why I will always buy used a low millage part many times over buying aftermarket new.
For the folks who have meisterr crd on their 2s - what stiffness/ clicks do you use for fast road use (from softest i.e.)?
Also if anybody had whiteline ARBs I would love to hear how stiff did you set them up for mentioned use.
Cheers
Do some search-term tries. I have Meister but haven't used the full set together, but thought the spring rate was stupidly-high. I reckon they improve after a few hundred miles bedding-in though.
For road-use I would think in combination with the Meister the softest setting on the Whiteline would be enough. It's supposedly about 25% stiffer than o/e.
Rear..? Can make it too stiff, I've read. A lot of racers don't use any rear antiroll bar. Perhaps a stripped-out car behaves differently?
Quote from: FredyCro on January 29, 2022, 08:28For the folks who have meisterr crd on their 2s - what stiffness/ clicks do you use for fast road use (from softest i.e.)?
Also if anybody had whiteline ARBs I would love to hear how stiff did you set them up for mentioned use.
Cheers
I think mine are about 5 clicks from soft on the front and 10 at the rear. I wouldn't want it much firmer for road use. They definitely mellow over the first thousand miles although I think it's the springs that get softer rather than the damping.
Quote from: FredyCro on January 29, 2022, 08:28For the folks who have meisterr crd on their 2s - what stiffness/ clicks do you use for fast road use (from softest i.e.)?
Also if anybody had whiteline ARBs I would love to hear how stiff did you set them up for mentioned use.
Cheers
For road use, I always keep it in the softest setting. For the track on the other hand, I try to set it up as hard as the track allows it, with 3-5 clicks at a time. (short bumps or changes in the surface)