Inspired by the entries from
@Petrus regarding weight savings and general improvements in battery tech. I consulted Mr. Google to find something that may be of use when new battery time comes around.
A few
https://www.qualitysource.co.uk/collections/lifepo4-li-ion-hd-series/products/12v-50ah-lithium-battery-lifepo4-series < probably overkill and certainly eye wateringly expensive
https://www.averysmotorcycles.com/products/shido-lithium-battery?variant=18193506992201¤cy=GBP&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2019-02-19&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=CjwKCAjwj6SEBhAOEiwAvFRuKONQp-XH5DV1NJoMj9Ke3EJKj7vP3c5WbN6wRoyfplvwHBcfwrTmUhoC9BAQAvD_BwE < big enough?, need terminal adaptors
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultramax-LI36-12-LiFePO4-Phosphate-Performance/dp/B084BQQ8LM/ref=rtpb_2?pd_rd_w=FkBSH&pf_rd_p=5a5e3976-5d4e-46fd-b875-6aae78355b0a&pf_rd_r=YAHXBER24VRCQ72G3CB3&pd_rd_r=24a9afa9-0f73-4189-a097-9a879b962db1&pd_rd_wg=z15Ee&pd_rd_i=B084BQQ8LM&psc=1 < looks very 'tall' but just maybe the right sort of minimal spec at the right price?
Some of the most important features of any of the lithium iron phosphate batteries is having a built in BSI circuit. This will balance the cells and prevent problems. Another good feature that some of the new ones have is a auto disconnect if the battery goes below a certain voltage.
These batteries are not good for very cold climates as the cold cranking amps is greatly diminished. Because of parasitic losses from the battery due to the ECU and radio you can flatten this battery easily and when that happens it will be forever damaged.
The other issue is if the battery has been depleted but you are still able to start then the charging amps from the alternate is too high and can shorten the life of these batteries.
I constantly have this battery hooked up to a specific lithium iron battery charger that maintains it in my garage. I know people that tried to use these batteries the same as lead acid and they didn't last once they went below a certain charging state. It is an expensive way to find out.
The technology is improving but we are still not there yet.
Have been using mine like a lead-acid replacement into it´s fourth year now.
Been run flat 6 or 7, maybe 8 times, all but 1 plain user stupidity.
Started with jumper cables.
Is subsequently charged by the alternator at 14.3 V almost immediately dropping to 14.2 and eventually 13.9 - 14.0 V.
Sofar not noticed any reduction in sub zero starting or capacity. Not bad for a 0.8 kg. mini.
I took Petrus's advice and bought a LifePo battery in January and no issues so far, nice weight loss. I bought the biggest one I could find on Tayna for about £110.
Quote from: Mark A on April 30, 2021, 14:41I took Petrus's advice and bought a LifePo battery in January and no issues so far, nice weight loss. I bought the biggest one I could find on Tayna for about £110.
A Shido battery Mark?
all currently unavailable if the case
https://www.tayna.co.uk/motorcycle-batteries/shido/p3/
Can you give me a clue as to what you bought otherwise
Found this
https://www.gobatteries.co.uk/product/manufacturers/shido/ytz14s-shido-lithium-motorcycle-battery-lifepo4-ltz14s/
states it needs a lithium battery charger, would my CTEK MXS 7.0 be suitable/not?
edit
it doesn't it needs something like this
https://www.gobatteries.co.uk/product/battery-chargers/motorcycle-battery-chargers/ctek-ct5-powersport-with-lithium-12v-2-3-amp-battery-charger/
No decide on an Exide https://www.tayna.co.uk/motorcycle-batteries/types/ytx20-bs-lithium/
The YTX20 had reasonable CCA at 380, when I was searching they had very few in stock so got lucky with Exide as they had a few delivery.
Quote from: Gibla on April 30, 2021, 15:07Found this
https://www.gobatteries.co.uk/product/manufacturers/shido/ytz14s-shido-lithium-motorcycle-battery-lifepo4-ltz14s/
states it needs a lithium battery charger, would my CTEK MXS 7.0 be suitable/not?
edit
it doesn't it needs something like this
https://www.gobatteries.co.uk/product/battery-chargers/motorcycle-battery-chargers/ctek-ct5-powersport-with-lithium-12v-2-3-amp-battery-charger/
That charger might not be suitable if it has a lead acid profile which has a sulfating mode which can damage the lithium cells.
I use the CTEK 56-926 which is for lithium batteries of this type as it has the right charging profile and monitor that has error codes on the health of the cells. I leave mine connected all the time.
Quote from: Mark A on April 30, 2021, 15:11No decide on an Exide https://www.tayna.co.uk/motorcycle-batteries/types/ytx20-bs-lithium/
The YTX20 had reasonable CCA at 380, when I was searching they had very few in stock so got lucky with Exide as they had a few delivery.
Hiya Mark, very useful link
Asking what isn't meant to be a silly question
How do you overcome the square motorcycle battery fitments to fit the round car battery leads? An idiots guide linky to some product would be helpful.
I asked if Tayna sold anything like that adaptor ....nada
Quote from: Gibla on May 6, 2021, 15:05Quote from: Mark A on April 30, 2021, 15:11Asking what isn't meant to be a silly question
How do you overcome the square motorcycle battery fitments to fit the round car battery leads? An idiots guide linky to some product would be helpful.
On mý car the cables were connected to the battery clamps with screwed down connectors.
All I had to do was take the car batter claps of and connect the eyelets to de LiFe directly.
Coud not have been simpler.
@Petrus have you had to use a special(lithium) charger at any stage? if so any recommendations?
@Dev quoted CTEK in an earlier post (which I use the lead-acid variety of product very happily on my trad batteries)
Irrespective, have just placed my order for the Exide as mentioned in an earlier post by
@Mark A
Not that I am thinking of doing this myself but I have to say that swopping to this battery saves over 10kg in weight for approx £60 more than a standard battery. (Even if you were to carry an emergency power pack "just in case" like I do for my GT86).
That has got to be one of the most cost effective weight saving changes (other than just ripping stuff out of course!).
'Even if you were to carry an emergency power pack "just in case" like I do for my GT86' <
@Topdownman pray tell what, presumably not just another battery?
Quote from: Gibla on May 6, 2021, 15:12@Petrus have you had to use a special(lithium) charger at any stage?
Nope.
And yes
@Topdownman, it is as cheap as weight saving gets with a better battery as bonus.
Quote from: Gibla on May 6, 2021, 15:12@Petrus have you had to use a special(lithium) charger at any stage? if so any recommendations?
@Dev quoted CTEK in an earlier post (which I use the lead-acid variety of product very happily on my trad batteries)
Irrespective, have just placed my order for the Exide as mentioned in an earlier post by @Mark A
It depends on what you are looking for in a charger.
Lithium iron battery chargers are optimized for these kind of batteries as they have a different kind of charing profile which can monitor, test and even recover a battery. This will prolong the longevity of this kind of battery.
Some of these batteries do not like constant trickle charging from a standard charger. Where this comes into play is if you use your car occasionally and would like to have a battery charger connected all the time to make sure it doesn't go flat by sitting or from some parasitic loss. Cteck is what they call a smart charger where it will stop charing once the cells are full and then monitor and pulse a charge to keep the cells optimized but it will not charge the battery to full capacity which is bad for lithium battery storage.
If you substitute a lead acid battery charger instead it will not have an optimum profile but it will work however if it has a sulfating mode which raises the charge by exceeding a certain voltage it will damage the lithium cells. The sulfating profile is done to lead acid batteries to break up any lead sulfate crystals.
If your car stays outside and is not garaged kept I wouldn't worry about a specific battery charger as long as you drive the car often but if it goes flat and you have to jump start it that is where the batteries become damaged. You can get away with it a few times but eventually the battery will lose its capacity and just fail catastrophically. Lead acid batteries are far more durable in this regard.
Quote from: Gibla on May 6, 2021, 16:32'Even if you were to carry an emergency power pack "just in case" like I do for my GT86' < @Topdownman pray tell what, presumably not just another battery?
I have one of these in the boot of the 86;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-External-Automotive-Motorcycle-Flashlight/dp/B01DVSSCG6
As the 86 is an auto and the battery gets run down by the keyless entry, it has got me out of trouble many times! One time, I drove to the supermarket and came out after shopping for the car not to start and quickly used the jump pack to get it going. Also gone to drive to work in the morning only to found it wont start so out with the pack! An amazing bit of kit that actually works like it is supposed to.
Not sure if using one of these is OK for a lithium battery though?
Yes, a very useful under any circumstance, lightweight addition.
Far easier using that than having to disconnect a battery, take inside, charge, etc, and then do the reverse. I have 4 cars left outside all year round so something along these lines will be very handy .....along with the obligatory jump leads :-)
Quote from: Gibla on May 6, 2021, 17:56Yes, a very useful under any circumstance, lightweight addition.
Far easier using that than having to disconnect a battery, take inside, charge, etc, and then do the reverse. I have 4 cars left outside all year round so something along these lines will be very handy .....along with the obligatory jump leads :-)
It the UK alarm runs the battery down, than fitting a quick dsconnect is an easy solution.
They do have a newer type battery they sell here that goes by the name of antigravity. The BSI circuit will disconnect the battery if the voltage drops too low so the cells do not get damaged and so you can start your car.
If and when you notice your car is flat you press a button on the battery and it will allow you to start it.
I plan to get this battery once mine dies, its been about five years so far.
Can anyone say which of these is the right one to get?
https://www.antigravitybatteries-uk.co.uk/re-startoem-batteries.html
Quote from: jvanzyl on May 27, 2021, 23:20Can anyone say which of these is the right one to get?
https://www.antigravitybatteries-uk.co.uk/re-startoem-batteries.html
At minimum I would want anything over 480CCA in that series. After that you need to figure out how to mount it and then choose the one that has the dimensions that will work. I bought a battery mount that fits the dimensions of my current lithium battery and then had it mounted on the factory battery tray which made things very easy.
Resurrecting an old post
I have a total of 3 Exide lithium-ion batteries in use now, with the occasional idiot blips of discharging the batteries from silly user error, like leaving headlights on after stopping the car :-(
Portable battery packs have been used for this eventuality < now onto my 3rd, the 1st one was excellent, but ultimately packed up + refused to charge. The 2nd one would only give 1 quick boost + then needed recharging before it could be used again. 3rd one (Noco) looks like a far better piece of kit, but unused as yet. Also, have bought a Noco lithium-ion battery charger which rapidly charged a 'dead' loose battery in about 1hr.
The point + purpose of this post is what method other users employ to secure their battery into the car ...I have used cable ties which satisfy an MOT inspection, but it isn't a very satisfactory method imo. << so advice/guidance reqd please << along with piccies if possible
@Gibla May take some scrolling, but fairly sure
@Petrus put some pics of his in his southern belle thread.
Mine came with a cage I could then attach to the existing battery tray.
Pics in my thread- probably best to use the search
Quote from: Topdownman on May 6, 2021, 17:32I have one of these in the boot of the 86;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Starter-External-Automotive-Motorcycle-Flashlight/dp/B01DVSSCG6
As the 86 is an auto and the battery gets run down by the keyless entry, it has got me out of trouble many times! One time, I drove to the supermarket and came out after shopping for the car not to start and quickly used the jump pack to get it going. Also gone to drive to work in the morning only to found it wont start so out with the pack! An amazing bit of kit that actually works like it is supposed to.
Not sure if using one of these is OK for a lithium battery though?
Just as an update to my recommendation, I am finding that the pack does not hold its charge so long as it used to so it may be that they only last for a couple of years before they start to deteriorate so not as good as I had hoped! Need to remember to keep it charged up and probably would only get one start out of it now without recharging.
This is the latest battery pack I bought < not had to use it yet, but spec + appearance put it into a way different league than previous packs
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385594003962?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=385594003962&targetid=1814673647222&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045506&poi=&campaignid=19089547614&mkgroupid=142438599285&rlsatarget=aud-1657461039748:pla-1814673647222&abcId=9303859&merchantid=6995734&gclid=CjwKCAjw6vyiBhB_EiwAQJRopqqn9zoyrfy-H6dZCrK6kCAQJQ8yn23o2JXSS4W0X9IbdhXmLez9KRoCBoUQAvD_BwE
Re securing the lithium battery , would this suffice? https://www.screwfix.com/p/cambuckle-tie-down-straps-2-5m-x-25mm-2-pack/87355?fbclid=IwAR33TY0acnqC3S5clNJ17Ph8mqA9MhIAET-mCMIu41nbAiN4qWo9Z1CgUEE
or maybe
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195645069391?hash=item2d8d5ad84f:g:pVoAAOSwbJJjA6cz&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4LD6HZj0cscc5GDMcMKnxSnWaRBP7NTxbNoaeHEBYFlno6HPMcsBOwfRXv%2FKbDcuEIo2rtGQIrztLV9KW%2FIMRc2OldZLgjKnsDSS4S3laMQkXvYPyVJphLF7%2FnrN%2F7Or5FQy%2FhokKcb1ZHI0NqYq37WXTbl6ePw9hadIUon8na%2Fn%2F80rD96JTV16n%2BAFFuQoWcxOvHT4I1WjksNZt%2FefIbjCJnNQwNutSW1WuyTHEN4%2FHNgqaU6DJNTdNBOl1pLr0AYbbypm27r%2Bqbt%2F0oTmoHxQowoTG63v2ew1uCQ1jU%2BP%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6yDyseCYg
Those both look like overkill for what you want. Could you get reusable large cable ties?
A "Search" on the www shows various ( adjustable) car battery clamps similar to the OE.
Cheers
@Joesson +
@Topdownman advice taken + acted upon