Check your crossmembers

[Anonymous]

Fitting instructions  l viewtopic.php?t=50071 l

[gaffer1986]

Fitting instructions  l viewtopic.php?t=50071 l

Thanks for your help, I probably don't need the special adjustable arms so will probably try and fit the existing, no one on here seems to report the arms snapping or being in poor condition so I'm assuming they will be in good order.

This seems like a great forum, I will have a read of the link.

[gaffer1986]

What's the correct terminology of both the arms that connect to the crossmember? I imagine I will have to get new bushes and bolts for the arms when I replace the crossmember so I need to know what they're called to order the correct bushes. From my research so far, I'm guessing I will need some exhaust gaskets. Where do people get there parts from?

I've just ordered the crossmember from camskil so should have it Friday.

[spit]

Gaskets need to be from a Toyota supplier (or our CTP affiliate). At a push you can re-use the large Cat to Exhaust gasket and just need the single-use pair of manifold to cat gaskets. Worth getting the three nuts for the mani-cat joint too. They gnarl up something rotten at this age when you wind them off ..... and they may take the mani studs with them too (or shear them off, which is a pain).

Cat-Exhaust spring bolts can be re-used if they're not totally fubarred. They tend to rust to a point from the tip and squeal like a pig during removal, so if the threads are damaged, replace them. PlusGas is your friend for getting this stubborn stuff apart.

The arm comes with a bush well and truly fitted. To fit aftermarket bushes requires getting the old one pressed out.

Toyota listing for the arm is Arm Assembly, Rear Suspension No.1. aka No.1 Lower Suspension Arm
Toyota listing for the cam adjust arm is Arm Assembly, Rear Suspension No.2 aka No.2 Lower Suspension Arm
(For completeness, the one to the front of the crossmember, running between Car Body and Hub, is the Strut rod. You can leave this one alone).

I've discovered that ball joint nuts on the No.2 arm can strip their threads quite easily, so if you're shopping you may want to get some new ones in, just in case. At the other end, you may want to replace your cam bolts if the old ones put up a fight during removal from the old crossmember.

[Anonymous]

Fitting instructions  l viewtopic.php?t=50071 l

Thanks for your help, I probably don't need the special adjustable arms so will probably try and fit the existing, no one on here seems to report the arms snapping or being in poor condition so I'm assuming they will be in good order.

This seems like a great forum, I will have a read of the link.

Agree the arms are overkill but my point is that the connecting bolts at the cross member end seize into the bush of the arm and can be impossible to get out, that's what started all this for me, I tried to take it for alignment and they couldn't adjust it.

Also remember the nuts have little locking teeth in the back, so it's the bolt head which you need to undo, rather than the nut.

The bolts are expensive, I replaced all of the fixing hardware and it came to about £110!

As said the cheaptoyotaparts section on here are about the same price as your local dealer, albeit more convenient probably

[gaffer1986]

Thanks, I will send CTP and email.

[gaffer1986]

I've sent an email to CTP, are the cam bolts arm no 1 or 2?

[spit]

Inner ends of arm no.2. CTP Chris'll know the ones.

[domtheplumb]

Just seen this and ordered a new crossmember
great saving ,thanks
Dom

[gaffer1986]

Inner ends of arm no.2. CTP Chris'll know the ones.

I thought that's what you meant. Is it possible to remove the crossmember without removing the ball joints of arm 2, I'm assuming the ball joint on arm 2 connects to the hub, I was planning to leave the arms connected to the hubs and just remove the arms from the crossmember, is this not possible? Is it worth getting the crossmember bolts/nuts that connect the crossmember to the rest of the chassis?

Thanks again for your help, I'm quite surprised how expensive nuts can be..

[Anonymous]

I didn't replace the main connecting bolts I just gave them a clean and copper grease before refitting

[spit]

Its true you don't absolutely need them, but if any of the four inner fixings don't come out you're absolutely stuck without them!

I'm all for re-using stuff where possible. I've only mentioned these things because they can cause grief and I know how infuriating it can be to get so far and find out you need to order something in. If you have time, work through and buy as you need.

Of course, if the bolts don't come out, you're looking at major surgery if you want to save the arm for re-use.

Is it possible to remove the crossmember without removing the ball joints of arm 2, I'm assuming the ball joint on arm 2 connects to the hub, I was planning to leave the arms connected to the hubs and just remove the arms from the crossmember, is this not possible?

Yes, you can do it that way providing the inner four bolts come out OK..... and it'll help you decide what fixings you can re-use and what you need to replace.

It requires a bit more effort. The front strut will have to be detached, and possibly the shocks too so that the hub moves freely enough to let the arms out of the old member and into the new one. The CV joints allow enough movement for you to do it though, so at least you don't have to furtle with them.

Having done it both ways, I favour the detach-at-hub method because its less taxing on the swear box! if the inner bolts on the crossmember have seized into the bushes, there's a much better chance of getting them out when the crossmember is on the floor in free space. Generally, those outer hub bolts are a dman sight easier to shift in situ!

Either method will work. Your choice.

One good solution to help you decide is to do a dry run ahead of time and see if you're going to be able to remove the inner four before you crack on for real. Don't be fooled if they turn OK......they tend to seize to the inner bush and the whole package turns so they won't come out. If you can get them out by more than 1cm you're good to go.

Is it worth getting the crossmember bolts/nuts that connect the crossmember to the rest of the chassis?

The bolts are fine thread and I know of one member who needed to replace a gnarly one, but thats not a common thing. Again, you could get under and have a go ahead of time and then you'll know for sure. Keep 'em dead square and lubed when replacing and you should be OK.

[gaffer1986]

This all sounds like very good advice to me, I had no Idea you would struggle to detach and reinsert the arms to the crossmember without detaching them from the hub.

Is there two arms either side because one does the camber and the other does the toe?

Also is it worth getting replacement fittings for all four arms at both the crossmember and hub sides so that's 8 fittings on total or is that overkill? I've noticed you haven't mentioned Lower Suspension Arm 1 as needing bolts/ball joints, does that mean people rarely have problems remove arm No 1?

[gaffer1986]

I also forgot I have a TTE exhaust so the gaskets Chris quoted me are probably wrong.

[Anonymous]

If it is just a back box, The gaskets are most likely the same actually

[spit]

I had no Idea you would struggle to detach and reinsert the arms to the crossmember without detaching them from the hub.

Nearly. If you go with your original plan you won't be detaching arms 1 & 2 from the hub..... but the strut rod and other gubbins tend to limit the hub's range of movement and are better off out of the way because the arms need to move outwards to disengage from the crossmember.

All in all (and from bitter swearing experience), life is easier if you remove 1 & 2 from the hub and worry about the crossmember ends when the old one is off. Doing it this way you'll need a ball joint splitter for no2. outer end.

Or .... you could mix and match - detach no.1 at the outer (hub) and no.2 at the inner (cam bolts). You have options! Up to you.

Is there two arms either side because one does the camber and the other does the toe?

Yes and Nearly. There are two arms each side. No.1 is fixed (inner is bushed, outer is bolted through the hub's bush), so it contributes to hub/wheel alignment but has no adjustment.

On a stock setup the only rear adjustment is toe, performed thru' no.2's cam bolts.

Also is it worth getting replacement fittings for all four arms at both the crossmember and hub sides so that's 8 fittings on total or is that overkill? I've noticed you haven't mentioned Lower Suspension Arm 1 as needing bolts/ball joints, does that mean people rarely have problems remove arm No 1?

No.1 inner bolts are generally easier than the no.2 inner cam bolts but not a dead cert by any means. The no1 outer bolt rarely causes grief and the no2 outer ball joint nut is low-torque and will come off OK .... but you need that joint splitter to free the arm from the hub.

I'd be reluctant to advise you to spend loads of dosh on all new fittings when there's a good chance you can clean and re-use anything that comes off OK..... which is why I'd recommend a reconnaisance session prior to install to figure out what is going to be peachy and what isn't worth the angst. Its also a great opportunity to get stuff sprayed up and ready for the big swap   s:D s:D

Must-have gaskets are 2x manifold-to-cat. You won't need to disturb the TTE exhaust and tips, so you don't need the TTE tip sealing rings and clamps from Chris.
The single cat-exhaust donut gasket is pricey. Its entirely optional. They generally reseal OK if you're reassembling the same parts. Only really a problem if you're changing either the cat or the exhaust, which you're not! My advice would be to leave the old one on the cat - on the offchance that it doesn't seal you can replace it later without too much grief.

[gaffer1986]

If it is just a back box, The gaskets are most likely the same actually

I think it is just a back box, although it sounds pretty good, amazing how much difference a couple of pipes can make. I will probably try to reuse the gaskets for the CAT to exhaust as they are already pretty well mated.

[gaffer1986]

Thank you Spit for your advice, it's really helpful and I appreciate your time. I did not reply earlier because I have been unable to log in since my last post Friday. All working now though.

Apparently I will be getting the crossmember delivered on Mon as Camskill are currently out of stock. I will get the fittings as advised which will help my girlfriends father (a royal mail mechanic) do the work, although I will probably lend a hand for the experience.

[bluesmoke]

Just beware that if you split the ball joint arms from the hubs you are very likely to see a good bit of grease squeeze out from the joints. Mine have done this on two separate cars this week!

[Anonymous]

Depends what type of splitter you use  s:) s:)

[bluesmoke]

Depends what type of splitter you use  s:) s:)

2 of my 3 disagree!   s:D s:D

[Anonymous]

Maybe I was lucky, I tapped the end of the nut with it partially undone (with a dead weight hammer) - and they were ok. That said I wasn't keeping them so I didn't really care

[gaffer1986]

Until today I hadn't bothered trying to check the crossmember as I assumed you couldn't see it, but turns out if you're willing to hug the ground the visibility is quite good.

I was quite surprised at what good condition it is in, considering I was told it wouldn't pass the next MOT there is only a little rust. See the pics, what do you think?

[MartinC]

In all honesty, I would probably replace it.  The hole you can see in the centre of the picture, was very similar to how mine looked.  When it was taken out, the slightest of pushes on the area made it crumble to pieces.  They rust from the inside out.

[spit]

For reference, this was Radu's Xmember a couple of weeks ago just before it was binned. Exactly as it came off a car that had sailed through the MOT.   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  



Rear toe bar could be displaced by hand and was almost completely free.



Can't really say this enough times: Check your crossmembers. Please don't assume that a 12 month ticket means your car is safe to drive.