Paint repair help

[shnazzle]

Now I know there are a good few peeps on here that know how to spray stuff rather well. So I've got a idea. 

I've got a big bubbly rust spot on my door. Have had for years. 
Instead of having it repaired I figured why not give it a go? 

So here's the damage:
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I don't have a compressor and want to do it with the door on. 
Instruct me

1) Sand down to metal
2) angle-grind flat carefully 
3) bodywork filler it smooth
4) zinc primer for rust
5).... Spraying stuff. 

I'm lazy so I want ebay links to tools, fillers, sprays, etc
Color code is 1E3 for the lovely sable. 
Not just laziness. I reckon this is not an uncommon repair so handy to have in the archive.

Thanks!

[Topdownman]

I am no expert but for me, in my inexpert opinion, the main issue is that you cant get the same paint from an acrylic rattle can compared to the water based paint/lacquer finish from a professional. Lacquering rattle can paint doesnt always adhere well either. 

I would always start any project with a visit to a painter or two to get quotes. The cost of colour matched rattle cans etc soon mounts up and you may not save much/any money. The professional would just have to get a bit of your colour in and would have all the other stuff anyway.

Once you have put rattle can on your car, it would have to be taken off if you ever wanted to have professional work done (as the two paints react). Ask me how I know!

(PS Dont get halfords colour matched 1E3, ask me how I know).

If you are planning to get into home spraying though with compressor etc, thats a different story as you can use the same paint as the pro.

I do like rustoleum combicolour paint though if you fancy a whole car repaint, I did my VW T4 with this with a brush on my drive! Would be perfect for a track car I reckon.

My list would look something like this;

Remove all rust and loose paint using wire brush, sandpaper and chemical rust remover (angle grinder too aggressive for bodywork I would say)
De-grease then prime (anti rust primer recommended)
Flat back and fill if necessary (as little as possible)
Prime filler,blending into the existing paint level
Paint/colour sand/ polish

Stand back and admire/weep*  (*delete as applicable).

[shnazzle]

Thanks Simon. 

I've got a quote and it is in no way bigger than what I would spend, but it's one of those things...
As it's such a tiny area, I'm not too fussed about whether in the future it would need to be redone. 
The entire damage, excluding space for "blending" is only about 5cm from top to bottom and 2cm tops from edge of door inwards.

The idea is...can't really make it any worse than a bubbly rusty coldsore  

To be fair, I'd definitely consider a compressor (need one anyway). Especially if it meant building up to respraying my front bumper. Then bonnet...etc etc. 
Especially as I have a potential "workshop" in flight where such activities could take place.

But as this is such a tiny area, I figured attacking with some non-Halfords rattle can action would be sufficient. 
No? 

If so, one question I have is blending. You mention prime filler into the existing paint level. So you mean just to bring the sanded part up to the rest of the paint?
Would I not need to blend it in a bit? Or would that just be done by light sanding some of the surrounding area and essentially overspraying a bit?

[Topdownman]

I was meaning blending into the existing level and then spraying the whole door.

This is where the skill comes in!

If you are just patching it in then you need to leave a slight bit of room for the top coat to sit so that you can then flat it in to the existing paint height. If you just overlapped a bit, you would just then flat it all back as soon as you sanded it so lose all you had put on. The overlap you do has to be below the overall height so you will be taking off some of the lacquer on the "good" paint to give you the depth needed to feather in your repair.

Try doing a drawing of a section of the door repair with the different layers on and it and imagine the effect of flat wet & dry paper. Whatever you do has to accept the flat colour sanding before the final polish to bring back the shine.

I cant help thinking I am making this sound more complicated than it is though!

How much is a secondhand door by the way!!

[jvanzyl]

If I were you, I'd get some touch up paint in the little bottle with the brush. Prep it in the way you described but be VERY careful not to touch any of the paint that is good.

Then apply your touch up paint and apply laquer if needed, then live with the difference. I honestly wouldn't want to set aspirations that you can do some kind of spray job that would blend well with what's already there.. that way you'll be happy with what you do..

[shnazzle]

I think John is definitely thinking more on my level. 
I'm 100% definitely NOT respraying the whole door, or even a large part.
The aim of the game is to make it better than it is. 

The touch-up pens I have used before but I have found them much darker than my paint, so it stands out a mile.
Hence I thought a spray would be better as I could feather it in a tiny bit.

[Call the midlife!]

Prep it, paint it the best you can and then stick a go faster stripe over it. Sorted.👍🏻

[Rushy67]

I think John is definitely thinking more on my level.
I'm 100% definitely NOT respraying the whole door, or even a large part.
The aim of the game is to make it better than it is.

The touch-up pens I have used before but I have found them much darker than my paint, so it stands out a mile.
Hence I thought a spray would be better as I could feather it in a tiny bit.

If the touch up paint much darker, spray the rattle can into a "lid" and use that as touch up paint.

[jvanzyl]

I think John is definitely thinking more on my level.
I'm 100% definitely NOT respraying the whole door, or even a large part.
The aim of the game is to make it better than it is.

The touch-up pens I have used before but I have found them much darker than my paint, so it stands out a mile.
Hence I thought a spray would be better as I could feather it in a tiny bit.

If the touch up paint much darker, spray the rattle can into a "lid" and use that as touch up paint.

this is a good idea! the whole feathering thing is where things tend to go wrong... it's like scope creep and before you know it your sanding the whole door back as you "may as well"...

[shnazzle]

I think John is definitely thinking more on my level.
I'm 100% definitely NOT respraying the whole door, or even a large part.
The aim of the game is to make it better than it is.

The touch-up pens I have used before but I have found them much darker than my paint, so it stands out a mile.
Hence I thought a spray would be better as I could feather it in a tiny bit.

If the touch up paint much darker, spray the rattle can into a "lid" and use that as touch up paint.

this is a good idea! the whole feathering thing is where things tend to go wrong... it's like scope creep and before you know it your sanding the whole door back as you "may as well"...

I see what you mean. 

Well you know what. Worst case scenario I ruin it and it'll cost me 86 quid to get it fixed professionally
But, now I need a link to a decent rattle can. I can find professional stuff but it says it still needs a lacquer over it. 
Isn't there a non-Halfords "all-in-one"?

[jvanzyl]

Have a look at paints 4u on eBay. I got their primer, base and lacquer package..

[Topdownman]

Be prepared for that rust to have spread a long way underneath the "good paint".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4fBbhyzE9A

[deviantmr-s]

I have used fiona_mcgowan123 on ebay, although they are now charging delivery, whereas before the current situation delivery was free.

Toyota colours I have received from them have been spot on. Do not forget that the metallics do need a high gloss lacquer finish.

[Zxrob]

Topdownman is pretty much spot on

Depends what is acceptable to you

I have a compressor and good quality spray gun and get some good (imo) results, Iv'e painted many bike panels over the years. If you want a pro finish, pay the money at a paint shop, if you want a rattle can decent job then

Rub down to bare metal
Etch prime the bare metal
Filler if need be
Feather in surrounding area
Apply primer, light mist coats
Sand primer, 600 grit will be fine, making sure you feather surrounding area too
Apply 2-3 coats of colour (you can get your paint matched easily at any good automotive supplier, take your car and they will scan it
Apply 3 coats of lacquer, light drop coat and 2 wet coats, give a minimum of 3 days to cure
Colour sand and and polish

You can get good results by blending the paint and lacquer in the surrounding ares at each stage

You can get acceptable results with rattle cans, you can get 2k paint mixed, that will give you the best results, it can all add up cost wise, but if you want to play then have a go, you live and learn as they say

Rob

[shnazzle]

OK from the sounds of it it's not even really a case of giving it a go and doing a "that'll do". 
It sounds like I need to either farm it out, or give it  a proper go with compressor and gun, in which case I would get a 2nd hand panel and just practice practice practice. At which point I'd probably just do the whole car in parts. 

At some point this thing is going to need a respray. It's done over 100k hard miles and it looks worse for wear. Hence my thoughts to just go for it. 
I could indeed keep a lookout for a decent breaker. Or, swap doors with Helen when she's not looking. 

Thanks all

[Ozzy]

I've just spent the past few weeks during the lockdown painting and repairing loads of bad scuffs on my car and achieved a factory like finish without any signs of repair at all. All this was done using normal rattlecans. Nothing special like 2k or anything. I did similer as what ZxRob said...
 
-I sanded down with 280grit and fillered any bits that needed doing.
-Sanded it again with 280 and went over with 600grit to smooth it.
-Primered using a rattle can and wet sanding with 600grit.
-First paint layer only lightly misted on
-second and third layer layed down wet (heavy coats)
-Did the same with laquer but 4 layers this time. First layer light and the next three heavy.
-Wait 2 days (longer the better) for paint to cure and wet sanded with 2000grit
 Keep wet sanding until all the surface looks completely dull with no shiny spots. Keep cleaning the surface and checking.
-Used a DA polisher to compound and polish. Had to compound 3 or 4 times. It can be done by hand but will take ages and a lot of effort lol.
-Wait a few weeks for it all to cure and then youre free to wax or whatever

Once again, I did this all using rattle cans and achieved a perfect factory looking finish.
For the feathering/blending the paint, you only need to go around 4-5inches over. Each time you do a new paint layer, spray abit more everytime. When you wetsand the clear coat, all this will get flattened and blended it.

[Ozzy]

Orange section;
Mask off, except the panel you're working on.
Sand down to metal using 280grit and apply filler if needed
Sand filler to shape with 280grit
Do another layer and repeat if there's tiny holes in the surface
Wetsand filler again with 600grit
Wetsand with 2000grit this time but do a couple of inches from the repair area
Spray 2-3 layers of Primer and wetsand again with 600grit
Spray on your first layer of paint but only a light misting

Red section;
Spray your second layer of paint much heavier, going out abit further

Purple section;
Repeat again and spray another heavy layer going out further once again to the purple area in pic.

Blue section;
Light layer of laquer
Heavy layer of laquer going out abit further. More layers of laquer, the better as it gives you more room for sanding/flattening it all later.
Repeat previous step and let it cure for a few days.

Gray section;
Wetsand with 2000grit going up/down, then side to side until it's all dull, without any shiny spots.
Keep cleaning and repeating to see what sections need more sanding and make sure to use plenty of water, don't let the panel or sandpaper dry out.
Also sand over abit onto the original paint so it all smooths in together
Use a DA polisher/buffer to compound. I used Meguires compound and had to do 3-4 layers
Apply a layer or 2 of polish
Let it cure for a few weeks and then wax and apply sealants as much as you want.



Items used;
masking tape
bin liners/dust sheets (to cover panels)
Some cheapo bodyfiller I brought years ago from Wilkinsons
Matched paint, including primer and laquer from ebay seller paints4ucomltd for £25
Assorted sandpaper off ebay 180-3000grit (item number - 174001764495)
DA buffer/polisher
Meguires compound & polish

[jvanzyl]

 wow - that's a nice write up... saving that in the car file..

[Topdownman]

Plus a nice photo of what the repair will look like using halfords colour matched paint....

[Zxrob]

@ Ozzy

Perfectly illustrated on blending technique

Rob

[shnazzle]

@Ozzy you're a wizard.
Thank you so much! That actually seems quite doable indeed.

I think there's a lot of merit in what was said earlier but for my purposes and I guess as a tactical fix until the whole car gets done, that seems to be the ticket.

[jvanzyl]

@Ozzy you're a wizard.
Thank you so much! That actually seems quite doable indeed.

I think there's a lot of merit in what was said earlier but for my purposes and I guess as a tactical fix until the whole car gets done, that seems to be the ticket.

please take some footage of your attempt at blending... I look forward to it..

Love the subtle slip there. "until the whole car gets done"... good luck with that conversation!

[Chriss]

This might help.

[Zxrob]

Just cut back and polished my front bumper, this was sprayed with a gun and compressor, colour has matched up well and the metallic has dropped in nicely

Rob
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[shnazzle]

Just cut back and polished my front bumper, this was sprayed with a gun and compressor, colour has matched up well and the metallic has dropped in nicely

Rob
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That's very nicely done indeed. 

Any details on kit and sources of paint?