Wideband O2 sensors?

[JB21]

Just found myself an Apexi FC for my 2zz swapped roadster but want to fit a wideband o2 before taking it for mapping.

Whats the deal with this? Does the wideband fit directly into the current OE pre cat narrow O2 bung, or do I have to drill the exhaust and weld in a new bung and have 2 pre cat sensors retaining the narrow band sensor?

If I can just fit into the current pre cat bung what kits out there are a direct fit?

[Gaz2405]

I'm not sure on the 2zz pfc, but on my 1zz pfc I just used one of the original O2 sensor holes, as I had O2 feedback turned off in the pfc,. It had the wideband 0-5v feed connected soni could see my afr values on datalogit.

[Call the midlife!]

Forgive me if I sound like I don't think you know what you're doing, it's not the case, I'm assuming you only want the wideband sensor for monitoring, not controlling?
I didn't think the Power FC could run off wideband inputs, only the standard O2 sensing?

[JB21]

Forgive me if I sound like I don't think you know what you're doing, it's not the case, I'm assuming you only want the wideband sensor for monitoring, not controlling?
I didn't think the Power FC could run off wideband inputs, only the standard O2 sensing?

For monitoring only.

[AJRFulton]

There are 2 OEM on my manifold.

[Dev]

 The Power FC implements the narrow band function poorly compared to the OEM ECU at least from my experience. 
 The Innovate Wideband that I used for narrow band simulation also was not very good. What I eventually did when I was no longer logging and turning using an autotune program is physically switch out the wideband for the narrow band.

[JB21]

The Power FC implements the narrow band function poorly compared to the OEM ECU at least from my experience. 
 The Innovate Wideband that I used for narrow band simulation also was not very good. What I eventually did when I was no longer logging and turning using an autotune program is physically switch out the wideband for the narrow band.

That's what I thought as PFC doesn't use the narrow band once tuned.

[AJRFulton]

Some wide band controllers have "narrow band emulated output" that you can use as the input for the ECU's closed loop input. Thus you could then ditch the narrow band sensor. Having both is good though for sanity checks as the widebands can get distorted with oil contaminates then misread.

Those Apexi FCs are a bit neolithic in todays very cheap aftermarket ecu market place. They lack loads of helpful modern features. If I were to jump to an aftermarket EFI system I'd go with something far more contemporary. I've never tried to tune one but I think they are pretty awkward and not overly loved by the rolling road tuning shops for these reasons.

Great for their day, and still perfectly functional... but I suspect you may find you jump ship again at some point in the future.

But if you do want to roll with an ApexiFC there is some software called FC-Edit that you really want to get into, which you can wire your wideband into the FC-Box then do proper real time datalogging while tuning to get a proper tabled out overview of the AFRs while doing pulls. Just watching a gauge is pretty useless, I have tried that in the past.

Pretty much my experience with the PFC.

It offers tunability, my last engine (Mahle pistons + cams + flat valves) peaked at 204bhp if I wanted it to and with a much improved torque curve (I detune peak horse power for competition class purposes - its power to weight, so detuning puts me right at the top of a lower class - going for max power puts me near the bottom of the next class up).

Certainly for somebody using the car as a track car primarily, and definitely if you've got to the point where track days are as much about times as they are fun - the PFC is a significant upgrade on OEM. Through some tuning should - quite easily - be able to unlock 0.5s of time around a typical lap. Cams and a PFC unlocked about 1.5 seconds around Knockhill for me, and that was with the car tuned to less peak horse power than OEM.

However, it is older tech now. There are better options out there, and as you said that's why I've sold mine (to JB21) and looking to upgrade to the ECU Master Black, on the recommendation of my tuner. Simply because of the increase in functionality.

[Jay]

No experience with PowerFC but I would use a Innovate wideband for some barnyard road tuning amongst the fleet.

The exhaust manifold will possibly be too hot.  You should place the sensor around a meter downwind of the action.  They don't like heat or vibration so a bad position can reduce lifespan.

You could use an EGT sensor in that position for the same purpose though?

EDIT - thought you might be using a pre-cat sensor hole in the manifold but have probably misread it!

[Dev]

That's what I thought as PFC doesn't use the narrow band once tuned.

From what I was told by a tuner it needs to be configured to work well otherwise it works poorly but on the whole it is not as good as the OEM ECU. It is there to help with fuel efficiency and emissions with changing conditions.
In my case I turned off the function. The car ran just fine without it.

   

[JB21]

Pretty much my experience with the PFC.

It offers tunability, my last engine (Mahle pistons + cams + flat valves) peaked at 204bhp if I wanted it to and with a much improved torque curve (I detune peak horse power for competition class purposes - its power to weight, so detuning puts me right at the top of a lower class - going for max power puts me near the bottom of the next class up).

Certainly for somebody using the car as a track car primarily, and definitely if you've got to the point where track days are as much about times as they are fun - the PFC is a significant upgrade on OEM. Through some tuning should - quite easily - be able to unlock 0.5s of time around a typical lap. Cams and a PFC unlocked about 1.5 seconds around Knockhill for me, and that was with the car tuned to less peak horse power than OEM.

However, it is older tech now. There are better options out there, and as you said that's why I've sold mine (to JB21) and looking to upgrade to the ECU Master Black, on the recommendation of my tuner. Simply because of the increase in functionality.

Main reason for purchasing the PFC is to sort the AFR's as mine runs rich, plus smooth out the power band to reduce the cam kick which isn't ideal on track.

Chris at EFI parts who will tune it knows his stuff, so I wouldn't be surprised to see 200hp. Can use my recent dyno result of 190hp as a proper benchmark.

You do lose OBDII functionality to read fault codes, but I can just plug in my OE ECU if I see a light.