The nearly an Elise Project

[Chilli Girl]

Brilliant - I've been lucky of late to watch some great racing from you guys - well done Dan and thank you for sharing.

[Alex Knight]

Mega driving. Car looks so planted.

What final drive do you have?

[Danny Scarbro]

Brilliant - I've been lucky of late to watch some great racing from you guys - well done Dan and thank you for sharing.

Pleased your enjoying the updates Chilli Girl....will be plenty more to come!

[Danny Scarbro]

Mega driving. Car looks so planted.

What final drive do you have?

Thanks Alex, It feels really good at the moment, I thought it may want some stiffer springs but not so sure now!

Its a DC5 gearbox so shorter 4/5/6 gears and a 5.417 FD. Its about perfect on the tracks around me and isn't 'Too Bad' on the road.

Dan

[Danny Scarbro]

As promised some pictures from the last Cadwell visit.

[Danny Scarbro]

Decided to put the ITBs on hold as it sounds great already and I just want to enjoy it without faffing too much, its working well as it is.

So the hold came off... 

After so much deliberating about them I realised over the years I have now purchased 6 sets of ITBs for the Honda K series engine and and have never fitted them!!!

A ridiculous stat and one I thought I need to amend. I have a weekend off so I went for it, first of all bulkhead cut. Wanted to give as much room as possible around them to work on and then be able to create some good cool air feeds from the side scoops.

So everything cut out, my goodness it makes things so much nicer to work on!

ITBs all mounted up, got them running and idling nicely however it needs tuning before I can really drive it in any fashion.





I now need to get the cams/springs/retainers fitted on my next weekend off and it's booked to be mapped on the 10th September.

After the mapping I'm then having a firewall re-fabricated with removable panels and then it will be time to make some noises on track again.

I can't wait to drive it again! It felt so good last time, so an extra 20/30hp, some extra revs and even more sound it's going to be a hoot.

Just hope the cams aren't tooooo much of a bastard to fit 

Dan

[Danny Scarbro]

Update time...Power upgrades Part 1.

So how did the cam fitting go....It was a PITA!

Getting to the cams themselves was fine, but getting to the tensioner and bits to get the cam timing and chain right was pretty tricky. Very little visibility or room to get to it. But we got there.

Used the technique of attaching the chain to the garage door frame to keep tension on so it doesn't slip off the bottom pulley whilst switching cams.

The springs and retainers was actually quite a satisfying job to do especially when you got the hang of it. However had abit of a nightmare with the tool I specifically purchased, I went to do the job one night, unpackaged my new tool to find out it was missing a crucial part! Luckily I found a chap fairly local that I could borrow it from.

So cams/springs/retainers all fitted, next was the 4piston oil pump to allow for a few more revs. Nice and simple to fit and been an uprated oem part just bolted straight up.

Ready for dyno day then....Tested the car up and down the road and allthough not very healthy it was working, the night before I got the car all packed up and thought I'd just check it starts....it didnt.

Tried a few things but to no avail, so its 8;30 pm. Im booked on the Dyno tomorrow and the car isn't running at all, Fudge.

I knew the cam timing was right, car had fuel pressure, was cranking over but just not starting. Tried numerous things but to no ovail. When I whipped out the plugs it was was clear they were soaked, I had fitted the bigger RDX injectors in the ITBS and without changing the map it was just flooding the spark.

Its now half 10, I've been at work all day, im tired and pretty annoyed but I desperately don't want to mess the Dyno people about and haven't got any other spare days for a while. I still have the old inlet manifold and injectors so I decided, Ill put it back to how it was, get a really early start then swap back to the ITBS at the dyno tomorrow.

Nipped to the shops to buy an energy drink and a few mars bars.

Half 1 came round, old inlet was back on, re-wired back to original injectors etc and I gave it a very quick fire up, it started but I didn't want to run it any longer been silly aclock. So tired but now knowing I had a plan and a running car I was also relived!

The early alarm came round very quickly, got all set. Went to start the car and it spluttered and tried to start but wouldn't. Gosh darn it. Checked round a few bits but nothing obvious, whipped the plugs out and they still didn't look great. So I waited for my local part dep to open and luckily they had a set on the shelf ready to go. Back to the car, obviously running way late switched the plugs, car started but was hunting in a ridiculous manner with the EML light on and wouldn't rev up.

At this point I had to make the call, really annoyed to let them down but I had tried everything.

I was absolutely shattered and gutted at this point, locked the car up in the garage and didn't touch it for a few weeks!

Dan

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[jvanzyl]

Shucks man.. Sorry to hear about this.

Hopefully you'll feel better in a while and can try again when there aren't time constraints that rob the fun out of it.

[Danny Scarbro]

Shucks man.. Sorry to hear about this.

Hopefully you'll feel better in a while and can try again when there aren't time constraints that rob the fun out of it.

Thanks mate...I've been working on cars long enough to know these things happen! There is a part 2 though so its all good 

[Danny Scarbro]

Power upgrades Part 2.

So after a few weeks of doing anything but work on the car, I opened back up the garage door. Switched the Inlet back over to the ITBS again, switched the injectors etc and started it up. It ran but again I turned it off straight away as I knew that it would only run for a limited time till it flooded the injectors.

I then re-booked the dyno time and organised a transporter to take the car over (Should have just done this the first time).

Last Wednesday was D Day and I was super excited, I have a few track days booked later in the month so just wanted it to go smoothly, I always really worry when I have done anything to the engine, always fear I'll have not tightened something up correctly and it will just go pop on the first run. Not sure if other people feel like this or its just me, Ive had years of working on cars and thankfully never really had many issues so not sure why I feel like this.

Either way its not enough to put me off doing it myself!

It was taken to Street Racers in Leicester and my Dad came long too, so we had a stop at weather for breakfast and made a nice day out of it.

So how did it go....

On the whole really well, it didnt blow up    There wasnt any issues as at all apart from a slight leak from one of the injectors which we quickly fixed and the throttle was very slightly sticking closed so we need to look at that.

The car sounded so good!!

After quite a few runs he was happy with how it was behaving so I was relieved.

Did we get the power I wanted? Unfortunately not so I was a little disappointed, having looked at similar builds I was hoping for 260-270hp and I know the Dyno is a fairly optimistic one too.

The end number was 252bhp 8,900 rpm.

Which to be disappointed by over 250bhp from a NA 4 pot engine is crazy but these engines are just incredible.

Talking with Gordon about any places he thinks it could be limiting the power and the only area we could see is the exhaust manifold, its a PPE manifold however the primaries are really really small. Both him and someone who builds exhaust commented on it when looking in the engine bay and in comparison to the manifold I had on the Elise the difference is huge.

Will it be what's restricting it at higher rpm? Maybe....there's only one way to find out.

I'll be getting a larger bore one built up after the trackdays and then go back to see if there's any difference, would be nice just to find a little more but we shall see.

But chasing numbers in NA is a fools game, and an expensive one so for the time lets just enjoy it. The last map was 234bhp so its still a nice 18bhp more.

Stop talking about that Dan and tell us what it feels and sounds like.....

So the drive home, was interesting! ITBS 40cm behind the drivers seat, no bulkhead whatsoever. It was so so so loud, all the time! The hour and a half journey really took its toll and I really should have had ear plugs in.

I took it fairly steady but opened it up abit more when we was back at local roads I knew and my god it sounds incredible!!!

It felt quick too, it just felt smoother in the delivery and effortless revving higher. Now revving to 9k rpm it really does sing and feel special going through the gears.

I just cant wait to take it back to Cadwell and its first visit to Donny (Albeit Im abit worried about noise there!)

The car is now with a garage who is building up a new firewall with access panels to give some extra room around the ITBS and give lots of access.

Really really really hope its done in time for 19th but we will take the MX5 if not.

Next update will hopefully be on the 20th with some ITB Cadwell footage 

Dan









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[Danny Scarbro]

Next update will hopefully be on the 20th with some ITB Cadwell footage 

This sentence has not aged well........BIG update time!

Cadwell Park – 19/10/24

So the chap sorting the temp bulkhead didn't a brilliant last minute job finishing it the evening before Cadwell. Made a nice quick solution which give so much more space around the engine and also all panels are removable for access. It will be going back to him over winter to have a frame welded in so the panels are even easier to remove and everything neater.
Quick picture of the set-up;




Cadwell morning arrived and the day was started perfectly, turned up at the track, straight down to noise testing with a lumpy idle and snorts from the ITBS, she said what the heck is in that, I replied a Honda K20. She didn't believe me and thought it was something more exotic. Told her it reved to 9k and she said just give us 4 and abit...Lucky enough as it was 104db. Big grin on the face and super excited.

What was the weather like?



Says it all, wet, cold, slippery and most of all FUN! As always at cadwell there was plenty of running water across the track on both straights but its been a while since we have had a wet day and I'd forgotten how fun it can be as well as challenging.

Car was great fun and was performing faultlessly. It was the first time using the AO52 tyres and we were really really impressed with the grip in such bad conditions. The ITB's sounded absolutely brilliant however are way too loud with the trumpets been 30cm from your ears and a made up firewall. Between 7-9k rpm the noise just feels like it goes straight into your brain and that's with ear plugs and a helmet on!
In the afternoon the track started to dry and out and again we were really impressed with the grip from the tyres, can see why so many people use these as a fit and forget for all weather conditions.

So where did it all go wrong, on probably the last session of the day at half 4 Matt (My bro) was driving and I was watching from near the café. There was a red flag and I waited fingers crossed for a little black MR2 to come back round, but it never did. I shouted to the Marshall and asked what's happened? His reply 'It's a Black MR2 and its on fire at Mansfield.' Probably the worst sentence he could have said! With that I was off, like a greyhound running round to see where and what had happened. I sprinted, panted, nearly fell over on the wet grass and realised why I hate running so much worried and hoping Matt had got out of the car ok and the car wasn't going to be just a ball of flames. I was very relieved to see Matt out the car and ok, and the fire was just about out with just lots of smoke everywhere.

Needless to say not the end of the day we wanted, it was a spectacular engine failure with a hole in the block both sides causing the fire. We were all going for a meal that night so it was left at Cadwell and we went on about the evening.
I was gutted but these things happen, pleased it happened at the end of the day and I had a week off work so plently of time to crack on and get the engine out and taken to pieces. I cleared the garage out on the Sunday ready and me and Dad went and towed the car back on Monday, I then spent the next week taking the engine out, cleaning the foam from the extinguisher (its gets everywhere) and splitting the engine to try and work out went wrong.

Some photos of the car on track before turmoil;














Photos post turmoil;







A week of taking the car to pieces and stripping the engine revealing lots of damage...











So what happened, honestly I'm not really sure what we have found;
-The mixture colour on the head is all good
-The rods are all still attached to the rod fine which would indicate it wasn't oil starvation
-One rod is snapped in half and there is very little left of the piston

Feels like its just an old engine that's had a hard life that's then been put in the MR2 and had an even harder life, then the tolerances have been lifted again and its just said enough's enough.

Either way there's not much to be salvaged but at least it's the right time of year so I can crack on and get it sorted for next year.
Will be a few more updates with the plan in the next day or so.

Dan

[Chilli Girl]

Really sorry to have read this Dan.  At least Matt got out ok and the engine can be replaced ready for the next series of racing

[jvanzyl]

wow man... that's really unfortunate and sad to hear.. best wishes for the rebuild!

[Alex Knight]

Ah, really sorry to hear this.

As you say, it's exactly when you want an engine to fail if it does let go. Pretty spectacular failure mind.

Regarding engine replacement, if it were me, I'd try and get hold of the best possible replacement, and I'd treat it to the full works. Everything. Oil pump, chain, clearances, water pump, thermostat etc.

I'd then make sure I had a proper sump and use the BEST quality oil available. Proper, ester based true synthetic (if you weren't already).

[BahnStormer]

oh no.... it was eventually going so well too!!! all the best with the next phase!!

[thetyrant]

Ouch!   As ever an issue like this is good excuse for an upgrade though 

[Danny Scarbro]

Ah, really sorry to hear this.

As you say, it's exactly when you want an engine to fail if it does let go. Pretty spectacular failure mind.

Regarding engine replacement, if it were me, I'd try and get hold of the best possible replacement, and I'd treat it to the full works. Everything. Oil pump, chain, clearances, water pump, thermostat etc.

I'd then make sure I had a proper sump and use the BEST quality oil available. Proper, ester based true synthetic (if you weren't already).

Thanks Alex, we always try and give them the best possible chance; This one had new chain, tensioner, Uprated New 4piston oil pump, Clockwise sump baffle etc and oil's changed every track day with Millers competition oil.

One thing I want to sort before next time is keeping the oil temps down as although that oil is supposedly good at high temps it cant be good long term. Cant re-use the current oil cooler so an excuse to go to a water cooled one like you suggested!

Dan

[Danny Scarbro]

Ouch!   As ever an issue like this is good excuse for an upgrade though 

Exactly my thoughts mate, will write up the plans later as we already have already got the wheels in motion so to speak!

Dan

[BahnStormer]

I hear 2GRs are a bit more robust 

[Danny Scarbro]

So what is the plan for the replacement.

I've decided to switch to a K24 instead of the K20 this time, although I love the revs and feel of the K20 you just have to take the engine to alot higher strain to get a comparable power.

For example with in the Elise, We had a stock K24 with just breathing mods and a set of drop in cams which produced 275bhp.

With the K20 in the MR2 it need more aggressive cams, uprated valvetrain and alot higher rev limit to get to 252bhp on the same dyno.

So I have sourced a K24A JDM spec engine, its the RB3 so has the higher compression ratio as standard.

Fitted the following New Oem Honda Parts;
K20 Oil pump
Tensioner
Timing chain
K20 VTC cam gear

Along with some new Skunk2 Drop in Cams.

This is the exact same set-up I had in the Elise, Theory been if you know it works then why do anything else.

Have sold the uprated cams/valvetrain and ITBS from the old engine.

And going back to the same Skunk2 Ultra Intake manifold I had in the Elise too.

Only things I need to sort now is a new Sump baffle and going to try a different sump too with a larger oil capacity to try and help things.

A few quick pictures of the temp bulkhead;





Have got the engine/interior all cleaned up and luckily have another week off from the 18th so going to paint the interior and engine bay before hopefully getting the engine back in.







How the car sits now, and how the spare garage looks full of all the parts!

Dan

[Danny Scarbro]

I hear 2GRs are a bit more robust 

I did look at these but I've been a Honda man for years and just love these engines. Not to mention the gearbox on the Honda is so so so good, Particularly the one in mine with shorted 4/5/6 and final drive.

I think the experience with a 2GR would be quite underwhelming after the K's. Would be really interested to have a go in one to see though!

Dan

[Danny Scarbro]

Had a good few weeks getting cracked on with the MR2.

With the engine bay cleaned up I finished cutting back the bulkhead then prep'd and painted the engine bay and surrounding areas. Wanted it all matching with the new exterior panels. I will move onto the interior and front boot area once the engines back up and running.

All painted ready for engine;



Engine and box cleaned up and painted;



Engine back in;



Now have the following bits to fit;
Skunk2 Ultra Intake
70MM Tegiwa Throttle Body
Iconic auto design baffled steel sump
Brand new Tegiwa Red wrinkle rocker cover
Acuity Short shifter
Mishimoto Aluminium radiator

Going to put it back together with the current exhaust but then will be taking it to Giz Fabrication for a similar set up with larger primaries on the manifold and larger back box as at 94.7DB it is track friendly but on the edge.

The next challenge is the wiring, I'm hoping I don't need a new loom but need to strip it back and see if there's any damage from the fire. I will however be tidying it all up and taking my time to make a neat job of it whilst I can get around the engine bay easily.

Fingers crossed will have everything done early spring and can get it back on track March time.

In other news we did a day at Donnington and Oulton in the MX5 which was really good fun, forgot how much easy fun that thing is.

Have a day at Blyton on 29th December for Matt's bday too which should be fun.

Dan