Disappointed with Alpine Head Unit...

crankshaft · July 21, 2004, 12:36

I just fitted a Genesis II amp to my 2, I have already fitted Focal 165V2s.

The standard 2 din Sony head unit sounds much better, there just seems to be no bass with the alpine head unit.

I have played with the Filters, The Input Levels and booseted Bass to max on the alpine EQ setup, but it still sounds all high and mid range.

Of course it is very sharp, but the lack in bass between the alpine and the sony head unit is VERY considerable and needless to say I am very disappointed.

I don't want to have to install a subwoofer to get an acceptable bass level as the focal 165s sound great with the original sony unit, any ideas on what to do ??

Is this typicl with alpine head units, i.e. that you HAVE to install a subwoofer to get an acceptable sound ??

Any help greatly appreciated !

Crankshaft

GSB · July 21, 2004, 13:26

Check you dont have the head units on board crossovers turned on, it could be that your bass frequencies are being diverted down an unused RCA cable.

Theres nothing wrong with alpines bass capabilities, so also check you dont have one speaker wired back to front, as this will also kill the bass.

crankshaft · July 21, 2004, 13:38

Hi;

Thanx for the suggestions, the Subwoofer is turned off on the head unit and I have already tried the speaker polarity and it is correct.

Swapping back the original sony unit back again provides beautiful rich bass which I simply cannot seem to achieve from the Alpine unit, so I am sure that the amp and speakers are fine ?!

Crankshaft

Anonymous · July 21, 2004, 15:21

I'd be surprised if the Alpine was at fault (generically I mean; it's possible you could have a duff unit); I had an Alpine in my Roadster, and a different one now in the Leon, and have been very impressed with both - they're generally very well regarded for audio quality (and no dancing dolphin screensavers...)

crankshaft · July 21, 2004, 17:01

Just tried going thru all the menus again, can't seem to find anything which will give me any bass s:-( :-( s:-(

Buster, can you walk me thru setting up an alpine head unit, genesis Ii amp and focal 165 speakers ?!

I'm sure their must be something I have overlooked as its all top and midrange and no bass punch whatsoever !

Thanx

Crankshaft

GSB · July 21, 2004, 19:16

Busters not been around of late, so I'll run few a few of the things that come to mind.

At times like this, its always best to check back from square 1. Check the door speaker crossovers are ok, and then double check all the polarities, Then, check the Head unit...

First off, in the setup menus, make sure the on board amp is turned off. You're using an external amp, so you dont need it.

Then go through and make sure the subwoofer function is disabled. There may also be a setting there that effectively compresses the audio signal for shit speakers. I think it has options like HI-FI, normal, etc. set it to Hi-Fi.

Next, ensure the HPF function is set to zero or flat, the LPF is disabled any when the sub-outs are deactived, but the HPF will rob you of bass if its on.

After that, Id recomend not using the MX button, and set bass to around +1 at a centre frequency of about 100Hz. I always found the combination of my MB Quarts and the Alpine was very bright indeed, so I always kept the treble turned down to -5 or -6, could be that that was an Alpine charachteristic, rather than the speakers though, although it never happened with the stock speakers.

On the amp turn the crossover down to 0, and turn any filters off. Turn the gain right down.

Back on the Head unit, turn the volume up to about 60%. Turn the gain on the amp up until your ears bleed, or it distorts. If it does the latter, turn it down again quick! The idea is that when you have the sounds cranked right up, neither the amp or the head unit should be running "flat out".

Other than that, I honestly cant tell you whats wrong....

markiii · July 21, 2004, 19:19

care to elaborate on bass centre frequency? that aklways confused me on mine?

GSB · July 21, 2004, 19:34

Quote from: "markiii"care to elaborate on bass centre frequency? that aklways confused me on mine?

On the alpines, (or at least on my alpine, they've updated the user interface since I bought mine,) you can adjust both Bass and treble up or down.

In addtition to that, you can select which part of the bass or treble you boost or cut.

For instance if you set you bass level to +3, you'd increase the level of the bass frequencies, if you then set the centre frequency at say 250hz, you increase the bass in a frequency band centred around 250Hz. For example from 100hz to 400hz, a range of 300hz, or 150hz either side of the centre frequency. If you then move the centre frequency higher to say 500hz, your boosted frequency range would move accordingly to 350hz - 650hz. On the alpine you can also alter the bandwidth, to extend or narrow the range of frequencies that you boost or cut, say from 300hz wide to 1000 hz wide...

Get it?

Incidentally Craankshaft, thats another thing you need to look at, make sure the bandwidth is set as wide as possible, and work from there.

crankshaft · July 22, 2004, 10:14

Hi GSB;

Very helpful, thanx for helping.

I can eliminate a couple of the possibilities you mentioned, I have the TDA7998R which does not have a built in amp, and the speakers & amp sound fine when I swap back the original Sony double DIN, so I am pretty sure the wiring is OK.

Later today I will try out the bass setup as you suggested, and hope it works.

As it stands now, I would much rather use the old sony in terms of sound quality, it sounds sooooo much better.

Will report back on the results

Cheers

Crankshaft

Anonymous · July 22, 2004, 10:21

Quote from: "markiii"care to elaborate on bass centre frequency? that aklways confused me on mine?

Grant's description is spot-on; think centre as in "the frequency around which I boost/cut", not centre as in "between left and right" s;)

s;)

Quote from: "GSB"I always found the combination of my MB Quarts and the Alpine was very bright indeed, so I always kept the treble turned down to -5 or -6, could be that that was an Alpine charachteristic,

Yep, I'd agree it's an Alpine characteristic; on both headunits I've had, on various speakers, have always sounded bright, for which I've had to trim the treble settings a bit.

Anonymous · July 22, 2004, 10:24

Quote from: "pmdye"
Quote from: "markiii"care to elaborate on bass centre frequency? that aklways confused me on mine?

Grant's description is spot-on; think centre as in "the frequency around which I boost/cut", not centre as in "between left and right" s;) s;)

Sorry to followup my own post, but thinking of geographic positioning things reminds me that my current Alpine (a CDA9812RR) has a whole raft of settings for "bass focus" and "time delay" stuff, all to do with gaining the (supposed) ideal stereo image from the drivers seat. Does anyone understand that, and can explain it in plain english to me?

markiii · July 22, 2004, 10:32

bass focus no,

time delay basically adjust the timing of teh signal such that left and right hit your ears (while siiting in teh drivers seat) at teh same time.

This compensates for teh fact that teh left hand speaker is further away.

It may of course makle teh sound worse for teh passenger, but cest la vie.

Alpines dedicated time processor used to use a micriophone to helop you set this up, I;m not sure what will be involved for yourhead unit.

GSB · July 22, 2004, 15:23

I've sone the maths for you already.

Its simply a system whereby you delay the sound coming from certain speakes so that the same sound from all the speakers hits you at once.

Say a bass drum is kicked on the track you are listening to, the sound will come out of both speakers at the same time, but because you are sitting closer to the drivers door speaker than the passenger one, the sound from the drivers side reaches you first. On the MR2, if you delay the front right channel by 1.2mS, you get perfect stereo imaging.

Its all maths, if anyone wnats to know how to work it out for other cars, including more complex 4 speaker set ups, then all you need to know is how far your ears are from each of the speakers.

Alpines Bass focus uses the same technology, by delayiong the output from the front speakers until the sound from the sub in your boot has had a chance to move forward.

Anonymous · July 23, 2004, 11:09

Ah, ok. I'd pretty much got my understanding of the time delay stuff right then, but wasn't aware that bass focus was the 'same for the sub'.

Now all I need to do is work out the maths for a 4-speaker setup (I recall there was a worksheet to do the maths in the manual).

GSB · July 23, 2004, 11:40

Go to the i-personalise section at Alpine USA's website, type in the distance from the driver to eache speaker, and it'll work out all the delay times for you.

m http://www.alpine-usa.com/ m

Anonymous · July 29, 2004, 18:07

if u still ahve this probelem let me know as im back s:lol: :lol: s:lol: