Which brace if you are only fitting one gives you most effect for the money ( thats available to buy at the moment). 53 plate FL car 65k miles no mods.
You want a mid brace. TTE Mat Corky are all out of production.
Not sure who is currently making them.
Most instant effect would be a front strut brace of welded construction.
The best is TRD but very hard to find.
JVanzyl has a decent one....
I'm currently making some Corky style breastplates, right now they are being anodised. Should be about a week or so untill they're done, by which time I can quote you a price. I'm located in the Netherlands though, so there would be some shipping costs should you be interested.
(https://i.ibb.co/LrL12X5/IMG-9145.jpg)
I'll also probably make a thread with some pictures of the finished article and pricing once everything is ready. I've now made 10 but I can make more if there's interest.
Quote from: Snelbaard on May 10, 2019, 06:59
I'm currently making some Corky style breastplates, right now they are being anodised. Should be about a week or so untill they're done, by which time I can quote you a price. I'm located in the Netherlands though, so there would be some shipping costs should you be interested.
I'll also probably make a thread with some pictures of the finished article and pricing once everything is ready. I've now made 10 but I can make more if there's interest.
Why, oh why; the list of wants néver ends this way (:< >:)
Looks realy good :)
I would not need them treated btw. The oxide coat aluminium gets from its own is quite good enough over here.
Quote from: Snelbaard on May 10, 2019, 06:59
I'm currently making some Corky style breastplates, right now they are being anodised. Should be about a week or so untill they're done, by which time I can quote you a price. I'm located in the Netherlands though, so there would be some shipping costs should you be interested.
(https://i.ibb.co/LrL12X5/IMG-9145.jpg)
I'll also probably make a thread with some pictures of the finished article and pricing once everything is ready. I've now made 10 but I can make more if there's interest.
Might be interested.
I would be interested in these braces too.
I have done my fair share of bracing and have driven other MR-S cars with some of the bracing I don't have like the big mid brace. I came to the conclusion that the best brace for me was the rear under brace from Tom's.
TRD and Cusco made two pencil like braces that support the control arm and subframe (previously had these) that don't do as much but the Toms was entirely different and substantial. It reinforces the subframe making it one solid unit to the chassis of the car.
Corky reproduced this brace in tubular aluminum opposed to the steel that the Toms uses and I think that makes all the difference.
It does add wight but it makes the rear end feel planted and almost no compliance when losing traction. The few times when I had to remove the brace for servicing I would do a before and after comparison and I could clearly tell how much difference it makes. My only gripe is how much weight it adds but I cant live without it.
Do you by any chance have a picture of that brace? It sounds like something to put on my list of wants
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-x8q-kXC3vuI/UIMN5RVseAI/AAAAAAAALao/jXryxMKIpeQ/s800/IMG_20121020_134614.jpg)
As you can see (only look at the X brace) it not only mounted to the frame its also connected to where the control arms are bolted to the subframe.
Hard to see in the picture but if you look closely there is an additional arm that connects the forward trailing arm mount to the X brace by using two nuts and bolts.
I strongly believe the rear subframe mounting points for the control arms are very weak and just this brace addresses badly needed structure.
The other braces are nice but they do add weight which can be bad however this brace makes the most difference because it addresses a major weak point in our cars.
Thanks for that detailed explanation! So the hunt begins..
Alright so they're now done! I just can't quote a price as of yet, because the anodising company didn't have an invoice ready for me yet. So that will come shortly. In the meantime some rather gloomy pictures of the finished article will have to do:
(https://i.ibb.co/pRvM6g1/IMG-9246.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/2hYyS80/IMG-9247.jpg)
Edit: They're now officially for sale! Right here:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67389.0
They look really good.
I'm interested too. Do these require drilling or do they bolt straight on?
They should bolt right on. longer bolts by the way (M8, 25mm, galvanised, 8.8 quality) and washers come with the brace. Here's a picture of a plastic prototype I lasered out earlier to test fitment.
(https://i.ibb.co/GMKrZTv/bp.jpg)
Tomorrow my own brace will be bolted to my car, and I am confident it fits. However, the holes in my breastplates are a bit narrower than the ones in the OEM brace. I did this for tautness. It may be possible that there's a bit of variance between different cars, so it might be necessary to widen the holes just a bit. But probably not.
By the way: Does anyone know which mods to contact about offering these breastplates for sale here on the forum? Such commercial sales need to be pre-approved.
@Shnazzle would be the man to contact I think about selling on the forum.
Quote from: Topdownman on May 21, 2019, 10:36
@Shnazzle would be the man to contact I think about selling on the forum.
Indeed.
If this is a one-off venture or sporadic "run" then by all means, you have our blessing.
If this becomes a regular commercial vebture with multiple products, happy to discuss that at a later date :)
Quote from: Snelbaard on May 21, 2019, 07:28
They should bolt right on. longer bolts by the way (M8, 25mm, galvanised, 8.8 quality) and washers come with the brace. Here's a picture of a plastic prototype I lasered out earlier to test fitment.
Thanks, I'm very interested then.
QuoteIndeed.
If this is a one-off venture or sporadic "run" then by all means, you have our blessing.
If this becomes a regular commercial vebture with multiple products, happy to discuss that at a later date :)
The former will be the case, so does that mean I should place my thread in the 'private sales' section or rather the commercial one?
Quote from: Snelbaard on May 21, 2019, 11:50
QuoteIndeed.
If this is a one-off venture or sporadic "run" then by all means, you have our blessing.
If this becomes a regular commercial vebture with multiple products, happy to discuss that at a later date :)
The former will be the case, so does that mean I should place my thread in the 'private sales' section or rather the commercial one?
Create a thread in Commercial Sales within Marketplace. If you have no access I'll sort you out
Thanks Shnazzle.
They're now officially for sale! Right here:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67389.0
Does anybody make the lower rear X brace in Dec's picture?
Quote from: Mark A on May 22, 2019, 19:26
Does anybody make the lower rear X brace in Dec's picture?
I have suggested to Boris to have a look at the ´dog bones´; the subframe spacers. Imo those make for a better connection between frame and subframe and as such adding rigidity, without adding weight or reducing ground clearance.
I've been researching where to get the X-brace that Dev's posted about. They're a bit nebulous but I found a parts number:
(https://i.ibb.co/VJg1RX5/toms-52297-tzw35-01.png)
A mate of mine knows Japanese so if we manage to find a bunch of them over in Japan, I'll let you guys know.
Quote from: Snelbaard on May 25, 2019, 12:21
I've been researching where to get the X-brace that Dev's posted about. They're a bit nebulous but I found a parts number:
(https://i.ibb.co/VJg1RX5/toms-52297-tzw35-01.png)
A mate of mine knows Japanese so if we manage to find a bunch of them over in Japan, I'll let you guys know.
That'd be brilliant
Quote from: Snelbaard on May 25, 2019, 12:21
I've been researching where to get the X-brace that Dev's posted about. They're a bit nebulous but I found a parts number:
(https://i.ibb.co/VJg1RX5/toms-52297-tzw35-01.png)
A mate of mine knows Japanese so if we manage to find a bunch of them over in Japan, I'll let you guys know.
Man that's totally something I'd want...
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
If I'm able to get just one (which in itself is a big if), I'll look into making reproductions of these, too
I have to say this brace is proving rather difficult to find..
Well it looks like I'm not going to be able to source them from Japan (or anywhere for that matter). I contacted Tom's and they really went above and beyond to contact retailers to inquire if any of them had any braces left. Apparently none did. I checked and I do have some tube that looks really similar to what the Tom's brace is made of. I'll fire up my welder and see if I can cook something up.
[edit: If all goes well, I'll be able to make an announcement the day after tomorrow]
Right so I've managed to find and purchase this lot in Japan:
(https://i.ibb.co/K2pQPGL/i-img1200x675-1549007140dfdhea186939.jpg)
It cost me an arm and a leg but I'm well chuffed, and it means that I'll be able to make new ones that are properly true to the original. I'll also make a version that will work with the Moroso pan.
Sadly there's still a looooong wait untill the package arrives.
Quote from: Snelbaard on June 11, 2019, 18:17Right so I've managed to find and purchase this lot in Japan:
(https://i.ibb.co/K2pQPGL/i-img1200x675-1549007140dfdhea186939.jpg)
It cost me an arm and a leg but I'm well chuffed, and it means that I'll be able to make new ones that are properly true to the original. I'll also make a version that will work with the Moroso pan.
Sadly there's still a looooong wait untill the package arrives.
Success! Very nicely done.
Can't even imagine how much it cost....
That's some next level perseverance for some bracing. Justsayin'
Unfortunately half of that won't fit on mine because of the V6 but would love the rest.
Well done.
This is really interesting me and very very well done on sourcing that lot!
Thanks guys! The TRD front strut bar is no use to me as my car is LHD and I recently got one anyway. That, as well as the Cusco breast plate will probably be sold here when everything arrives. Even though I also sell, you know, far superior ones ;)
Just being silly ignore
wow! You managed to get the Toms X brace!
Nice one...
I'm looking forward to the reproductions of those!
That is an impressive amount of bracing, I have a TRD one ordered from Toyota, hope it is a right hand drive one and I did not mess up the serial number. I will be interested in what you make from these.
Good to see that you were able to get the Toms rear under brace.
Just to add a little more desire for this brace, there is this road with a sharp low speed corner where I can kick the rear out if I force it and loose traction in the rear smoothly at the same time I can punch the accelerator pedal and spin out the rear to bring the car back in line.
Before this brace the rear would be swaying like fine steps.
The two for my insight on vehicle handling most insighful books are
Motorcycle Design and Technology: How and Why - Gaetano Cocco
Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design: The Art and Science - Tony Foale
Although about more complex single track vehicles, all is applicable to cars. Even in motorcycles rigidity is a double edged sword.
A degree of flex matched in harmonics is ´the art´ mentioned.
Concerning the MR2 Spyder it strikes me how much braces are availeble and no less than three types of which are dubbed the most important, with Dev´s spacers thrown in as a bonus important stiffner.
Makes me wonder where the balance is. Even more so if we add stiffer springs/dampers into the equasion.
If the two above mentioned books teach óne thing than it is; it is all connected. Change one thing and the effect of the rest changes too.
Note that TRD was quite conservative with their mods. in the Sportivo kit. Even though they stiffened the springs a bit and also both arbs, they only!! added a front strut brace whereas they did take the trouble for the dog bones.
Bear in mind that adding braces reduces chassis compliance which is also beneficial for road holding on less perfect tarmac or a narrow twisty road with a pronounced crown to give but two examples.
It is not all about crisp turn in. Compliance is at least as important, with that compliance being balanced; predictable.
I suspect we once again get into the area made obtuse by conflicting requirements, use, circumstances, matching or not other mods. The latter totally is the flex and harmonics; the art.
Remember the issues Schnazzle created by fitting Dev´s door braces; even the driver is part of the harmonics. Way less so than on a motorcycle but still a part.
Note that I am nót writing that braces are useless. I ám writing that they need to fit in the whole with that whole fitting the use.
Having built motorcycles for professional racing, I can say that chassis technology for 2 wheels is VERY different than for 4. Only a few things apply, such as the impact of damping curves on keeping the tires on the ground (somewhat), but when a motorcycle is leaned over, at least some of the suspension is from chassis flex. Moving the "center" of flex front or back can have a huge impact on handling.
If you want to learn about chassis design for cars, stick to books on car chassis dynamics, particularly race car technology.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on June 13, 2019, 12:10Having built motorcycles for professional racing, I can say that chassis technology for 2 wheels is VERY different than for 4. Only a few things apply, such as the impact of damping curves on keeping the tires on the ground (somewhat), but when a motorcycle is leaned over, at least some of the suspension is from chassis flex. Moving the "center" of flex front or back can have a huge impact on handling.
If you want to learn about chassis design for cars, stick to books on car chassis dynamics, particularly race car technology.
Of course there are fundamental differences; we are comparing cone steering with perpendicular. Nevertheless quite a lot is very much applicable.
When a car corners the centrifugal forces make the chassis flex and at least some of the suspension... That suspension by chassis flex is indeed the crux of my observation.
Took me some time to find it again but here a photo illustrating why the Matt TTE replica was a total NoNo for me.
Snelbaard´s copy is a neat compromise for me: Just a tad more rigid than Toyota intended with the two OEM braces, lightweight end no loss of ground clearance.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4389/36887619045_ab8792c755_k.jpg)
Quote from: Petrus on June 14, 2019, 00:34Took me some time to find it again but here a photo illustrating why the Matt TTE replica was a total NoNo for me.
Snelbaard´s copy is a neat compromise for me: Just a tad more rigid than Toyota intended with the two OEM braces, lightweight end no loss of ground clearance.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4389/36887619045_ab8792c755_k.jpg)
Fact of the matter is, the TTE brace really does work.
What I'd like to know is how the Snelbaard Corky replica compares.
@jvanzyl said that adding the Snelbaard to the TTE made a big difference. So I wonder whether its overriding the TTE, or complimenting it
THe TTE design shoúld work as it x-braces the outer corners of the floor pan.
You can see that it is mostly aimed at working in a flat plane; it keeps the floor ´square´.
The ham question is whether it is worth the weight penalty and for mé the loss of ground clearance is jaw dropping.
The Corky/Snelbaard connects the footwells and will have an effect of resisting torsion of the central spine.
Quote from: Petrus on June 14, 2019, 08:25THe TTE design shoúld work as it x-braces the outer corners of the floor pan.
You can see that it is mostly aimed at working in a flat plane; it keeps the floor ´square´.
The ham question is whether it is worth the weight penalty and for mé the loss of ground clearance is jaw dropping.
The Corky/Snelbaard connects the footwells and will have an effect of resisting torsion of the central spine.
My car is lowered a fair bit and I can honestly count the amount of times I've dinged the TTE brace on one hand in about 4 years
Quote from: shnazzle on June 14, 2019, 09:46Quote from: Petrus on June 14, 2019, 08:25THe TTE design shoúld work as it x-braces the outer corners of the floor pan.
You can see that it is mostly aimed at working in a flat plane; it keeps the floor ´square´.
The ham question is whether it is worth the weight penalty and for mé the loss of ground clearance is jaw dropping.
The Corky/Snelbaard connects the footwells and will have an effect of resisting torsion of the central spine.
My car is lowered a fair bit and I can honestly count the amount of times I've dinged the TTE brace on one hand in about 4 years
I've never grounded mine. Mine car isn't lowered, but I
do live in the pot-hole capital of the entire universe! I was very sceptical of this brace, but I got one so cheap, I simply had to give it a go. It did make the car much smoother over the bumps. I wouldn't be without it now.
I am happy to read that you can live without a downside and thus simply enjoy the stabelising effect on the floor.
I live in a different part of the world. Not only with 300 days of sun/year but also mostly empty well maintained B-roads that have generally no smoothed off/on at road side stops whether mirador, picknick area, restaurant or most side roads.
Because it cán poor down rather hard here and more importantly it is a moutainous country, the roadside drainage is quite acute, meaning that accesses to driveways and such usually have a fairly deep ´ditch´ meaning that getting back onto the main road is a challenge with limited ground clearance.
Toutched ground Sunday underway to Jerez getting back on the main road from a roadside restaurant parking lot. That was going carfully and at an angle.
Even grounded it twice with it higher on the springs than OEM.
The TTE design would make my car .... useless.
The rural zone where I live is more extreme still because much of the network of local roads is unmetalled. Well maintainded, that is not the issue but the connections with tarmac are basically, literally unsurmountable with the MR2.
Thé most popular mod to not SUV cars here is ... a metal sump guard.
Bottom line is that it is driver´s heaven here but beware of the ground clearance when going off the black stuff.
Quote from: shnazzle on June 14, 2019, 09:46Quote from: Petrus on June 14, 2019, 08:25THe TTE design shoúld work as it x-braces the outer corners of the floor pan.
You can see that it is mostly aimed at working in a flat plane; it keeps the floor ´square´.
The ham question is whether it is worth the weight penalty and for mé the loss of ground clearance is jaw dropping.
The Corky/Snelbaard connects the footwells and will have an effect of resisting torsion of the central spine.
My car is lowered a fair bit and I can honestly count the amount of times I've dinged the TTE brace on one hand in about 4 years
You don't scrape on stock suspension.
With lowering springs you will only catch on separated speed bumps.
With coilovers on the V6 with a 40mm or more drop it would catch on everything which is why I took it back up to around 25mm. Lowering more than 30mm is just stupid on a road car IMHO.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 14, 2019, 12:18Lowering more than 30mm is just stupid on a road car IMHO.
Have you seen/measured by how much the TTE brace ´lowers´ the car?! That was my point. That ánd the art of the compound flex/harmonics of suspension and chassis. One of the things I like so much about the car is how .... euhmmmm... expresssive it is about even small. Like Dev´s door braces leading to various percepcions ánd illustrating that the driver too is part of the system. Lóve it.
Quote from: Petrus on June 15, 2019, 10:05Quote from: 1979scotte on June 14, 2019, 12:18Lowering more than 30mm is just stupid on a road car IMHO.
Have you seen/measured by how much the TTE brace ´lowers´ the car?! That was my point. That ánd the art of the compound flex/harmonics of suspension and chassis. One of the things I like so much about the car is how .... euhmmmm... expresssive it is about even small. Like Dev´s door braces leading to various percepcions ánd illustrating that the driver too is part of the system. Lóve it.
Yes as I've had 2 of them and much prefer the car with than without.
Sorry if that disagrees with your science.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 15, 2019, 10:36Quote from: Petrus on June 15, 2019, 10:05Quote from: 1979scotte on June 14, 2019, 12:18Lowering more than 30mm is just stupid on a road car IMHO.
Have you seen/measured by how much the TTE brace ´lowers´ the car?! That was my point. That ánd the art of the compound flex/harmonics of suspension and chassis. One of the things I like so much about the car is how .... euhmmmm... expresssive it is about even small. Like Dev´s door braces leading to various percepcions ánd illustrating that the driver too is part of the system. Lóve it.
Yes as I've had 2 of them and much prefer the car with than without.
Sorry if that disagrees with your science.
You´re missing the point; I can´t do with their hanging that low. Háve you measured?
So if lowering >30 mm is silly for the road...
Or not reading; they work I wrote.
I also indicated why the TTE works differently than the Corky/Snelbaard and that thus combining also works.
Infact most braces work. It is however ever so brace too much for the rest of the set up and create a wórse to drive car that also lugs needless weight.
But hey, no offence intended and it´s lovely weather here. The car having a fold down top is thé usp on days like this, regardless of braces. Have a nice day!!
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 15, 2019, 10:36Quote from: Petrus on June 15, 2019, 10:05Quote from: 1979scotte on June 14, 2019, 12:18Lowering more than 30mm is just stupid on a road car IMHO.
Have you seen/measured by how much the TTE brace ´lowers´ the car?! That was my point. That ánd the art of the compound flex/harmonics of suspension and chassis. One of the things I like so much about the car is how .... euhmmmm... expresssive it is about even small. Like Dev´s door braces leading to various percepcions ánd illustrating that the driver too is part of the system. Lóve it.
Yes as I've had 2 of them and much prefer the car with than without.
Sorry if that disagrees with your science.
I'm with Scotte on this one. I put the brace on before I did any other "handling" mods and to this day it's the first modifications I would add to any MR2.
The only question I have at the minute is Snelbaard/Corky vs TTE. Which one?
Quote from: shnazzle on June 15, 2019, 13:17I'm with Scotte on this one. I put the brace on before I did any other "handling" mods and to this day it's the first modifications I would add to any MR2.
The only question I have at the minute is Snelbaard/Corky vs TTE. Which one?
As, for mé, the TTE is not op option because of ground clearance and lack of homologation docs. (the TTE will get frowned upon by TüV, ITV if not entered in verhicle specs.) thus Snelbaard/Corky for mé.
If the above is not an issue, then the choice is really not a choice either: Both have a different effect but the Corky/Snelbaard only improves upon
already fitted braces whereas the TTE adds a function, so TTE type it is.
Remains a specifc measurable; how much lower is the TTE type, the mid section sheet, under the floor?
If you imagine the two higher sides of the tub, so, where the TTE attaches, the brace sits about 1cm lower than that
Meaning it is quite neatly tucked up between the two chassis rails. Almost on par with lowest of the front bit of the rear pastic.
I can imagine it not being too much of a hindrance up north.
Just the mid section being 4 / 5 cm. ? lower than the OEM brace, that would ground me; literally, to the point of not being able to get home.
Quote from: Petrus on June 15, 2019, 16:08Meaning it is quite neatly tucked up between the two chassis rails. Almost on par with lowest of the front bit of the rear pastic.
I can imagine it not being too much of a hindrance up north.
Just the mid section being 4 / 5 cm. ? lower than the OEM brace, that would ground me; literally, to the point of not being able to get home.
Yes I can imagine if you need that clearance down the middle of the car to get down the farm tracks, then putting somethinf there would scupper you
My own track stopped me at the entry when I brought it home from buying. Had to sort it first :-*
Most of Andalucia is quite hilly, not to say mountainous (up to 3500 meter!) and even road side restaurants can catch you out.
The one last Sunday I had to leave over the entry at a very shallow angle and I still scraped the plastic; the passenger did it >:D
It really is drivers´ paradise but off (literally) the provincial A-roads you need to be aware of the space underneath.
The MR2´s ´long´, relatively speaking, wheelbase is a thumbs up with a caveat.
I´ll try take a snapshot of the access to the local B-road from the hamlet just beyond our access. It is a perfect real world example as it is not even extreme.
It was only when town hall repaired and put tarmac over that previously broken up concrete access road that a more sporting car could be consídered.
From our path, over the bridge, the new tarmac access road.
Past the hamlet you can see that the access to the B-road is from the outside of a cambered corner.
The access is now simply pérfect.
It used to be an accute ridge like the first house has to the parking; the layer of tarmac now makes it smóóth and accessible!
(https://myalbum.com/photo/kZnuF6fMUWJ4/1k0.jpg)
(https://myalbum.com/photo/bEgj5S83wLtG/1k0.jpg)
(https://myalbum.com/photo/GffPdXwKc5Za/1k0.jpg)
(https://myalbum.com/photo/PVigujCvK3DU/1k0.jpg)
Family have owned property on the Costa Blanca for 30 years and I can honestly say that the roads there used to be awful. Dirt roads all over just off the main drag.
Now it's tarmac paradise.
Shame we don't have tarmac paradise in this country. Driving from Somerset into Wiltshire today, Somerset roads were so much better!
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 15, 2019, 22:01Family have owned property on the Costa Blanca for 30 years and I can honestly say that the roads there used to be awful. Dirt roads all over just off the main drag.
Now it's tarmac paradise.
I live in the mountains; ´the interior´. The road network is áwesome. The Junta and ayuntamientos have used the European funds for infrastructure, rural development and conectability of remote regions to perfection and thén some by making it work.
Where Í live the network of caminos is exceptionally well maintained because the governing party is not politically ´coloured´; it´s independant and only for the region´s interests.
Andalucía is truely drivers´ paradise.
Am now underway to Madrid and taking the Spanish route nacional and it´s a true joy.
I have done two years of ralley with my son, all over the back roads of the entire peninsula. About 4000 kms/year of which soem 2500 kms of camino. That apart from crisscrossing Spain on leasure trips over national routes and B-roads with charming company.
I find it one great joy. Good roads through a stunning, varied country, with véry little traffic. The only ´but´is hat one needs to take care as the governing bodies do expect you to have and use common sense. One example is not to blindly crash off/ontp tarmac. The country is HÚGE so they cannot make a nice smooth ramp for lowered MR2s éverywhere.
North of Madrid now. Took áges, despite lack of traffic or traffic lights, but that is both the reward and price of enjoying national/regional roads.
Between Montoro and Ciudad real we met two British coiuples travelling in an MGA (twin cam) and MGB from the UK to Málaga off highways. They were ab-so-lu-te-ly lýrical about the roads, scenery and almost absolute lack of other traffic. Yes, they were véry careful exiting/entering the road again ;D
It's been a while, but my first Japanese bit came in today! I'll start fabbing up a jig soon. So now there's two projects simultaneously as you can see.
(https://i.ibb.co/SPNFfnv/IMG-9474.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/PFkw6Hk/IMG-9473.jpg)
baby steps..
(https://i.ibb.co/xC4YtvY/IMG-9498.jpg)
Quote from: Snelbaard on July 8, 2019, 16:57baby steps..
(https://i.ibb.co/xC4YtvY/IMG-9498.jpg)
Hey, don't knock it. It's progress! Appreciate the effort
Today all the braces finally arrived! Progress on the smaller brace is coming along nicely as well.
(https://i.ibb.co/ssqRKzk/IMG-9674.jpg)
As I alluded to earlier, the braces that I will not be using are for sale here: https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67916.0
Quote from: Snelbaard on July 8, 2019, 16:57baby steps..
(https://i.ibb.co/xC4YtvY/IMG-9498.jpg)
Where does that brace go?
Quote from: jonbill on August 10, 2019, 12:42Quote from: Snelbaard on July 8, 2019, 16:57baby steps..
(https://i.ibb.co/xC4YtvY/IMG-9498.jpg)
Where does that brace go?
Rear subframe.
If not front subframe.
From a few pages back:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-x8q-kXC3vuI/UIMN5RVseAI/AAAAAAAALao/jXryxMKIpeQ/s800/IMG_20121020_134614.jpg)
Quote from: Snelbaard on August 10, 2019, 13:22From a few pages back:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-x8q-kXC3vuI/UIMN5RVseAI/AAAAAAAALao/jXryxMKIpeQ/s800/IMG_20121020_134614.jpg)
Interesting. Thats the mounts for the rear toe arm isn't it? Surprised there's anything worth bracing there!
Yeah in all honesty I can't really see how it would contribute much of anything, but apparently Tom's thought it would..
The only thing with that part of the toms brace setup is that ultra racing do a version as well (not the x brace which is going to be great) I don't know if you've seen their version and if the economics would work out for you?
Do you mean this one?
(https://i.ibb.co/5sMYpbj/s-l500.jpg)
I've seen them go for about 170 dollars. I can beat that price.
Yup that's the one!
Actually saw it fitted today on marks car... That's cool if you can do it for less and in aluminium..
Well, it is going to be in steel. Dev, who has experience with Tom's steel bracing and Corky's aluminium reproductions has a preference for the former. A bit heavier, but also much stiffer. And I can weld them myself which is a clear pro.
On a side note I'm rather intrigued by this lower front brace, also made by Tom's Racing:
(https://i.ibb.co/ggqQfYK/brees.png)
There are really very few pictures I can find of it, and none where it's mounted to a car. Does anyone here have this brace?
Steel is the better material IMHO
Whoa never seen that before... Btw I'll be in Tokyo next month and might be able to find some time on the Sunday to actually go and see/do stuff...
Any recommendations?
I've never been so I wouldn't know, but sounds like a great adventure! Protip: go to a breakers', purchase a set of Sportivo struts and tuck them away in your suitcase. They're really quite common and cheap in Japan!
Quote from: Snelbaard on August 11, 2019, 19:36On a side note I'm rather intrigued by this lower front brace, also made by Tom's Racing:
(https://i.ibb.co/ggqQfYK/brees.png)
There are really very few pictures I can find of it, and none where it's mounted to a car. Does anyone here have this brace?
We bought the last one in the US almost 10 years ago, and still have it on the car. It really does stiffen the front. We hit a rather large deer some years ago which wiped out the radiator, radiator crossmember and much of the front bodywork, but when the chassis was put on a jig, it was still square, and the alignment was still correct. The body shop attributed it to the brace. It looks like part of it is missing as there is a crossmember that bolts to the side rails that would bolt to the bottom of the brace in the picture
I don't have any pictures of it mounted, but will see if I can get some pictures next time I have the car up on a lift
Lucky you! There was also one on Croooober a while ago but I missed out on it. You're right, there's a part missing in the picture above. I cropped that picture and the part just fell out of frame.
Pictures would be appreciated! I'm pretty sure I'll never find one of these so I might end up just fabricating something similar.
Tom's and Corky have also made this RLCB (Rear lower cross brace). To anyone in the know: does it make much of a difference? I fear that at some point you'll just be adding a fair bit of weight for diminishing marginal returns.
(https://i.ibb.co/rdpD1DB/rear-lower-cross-brace.png)
All these braces! Makes you think the basic car must be rubbish. 😜
Quote from: Snelbaard on August 23, 2019, 11:06I fear that at some point you'll just be adding a fair bit of weight for diminishing marginal returns.
Worse still, eliminating flex from the chassis reduces conformation with the road surface.
On a track where the surface is relatively smooth, that is not a draw back, on real world roads it is. So the returns are imo probably detrimental on the road.
Imho a road car needs as much compliance as possible while retaining directional stability. That is a compromise.
I prefer a bit wallowy car adhering to the road over a thight one loosing traction.
For this same reason the spring rate and damping for the road need be looked at with different needs in mind than track goodies.
I have a front strut brace, Dev´s door spacers and your belly brace. This I consider giving more feedback without costing too much conformation.
Any more I consider to be too much stiffness at the cost of adding weight.
Quote from: Petrus on August 24, 2019, 11:33Quote from: Snelbaard on August 23, 2019, 11:06I fear that at some point you'll just be adding a fair bit of weight for diminishing marginal returns.
Worse still, eliminating flex from the chassis reduces conformation with the road surface.
On a track where the surface is relatively smooth, that is not a draw back, on real world roads it is. So the returns are imo probably detrimental on the road.
Imho a road car needs as much compliance as possible while retaining directional stability. That is a compromise.
I prefer a bit wallowy car adhering to the road over a thight one loosing traction.
For this same reason the spring rate and damping for the road need be looked at with different needs in mind than track goodies.
I have a front strut brace, Dev´s door spacers and your belly brace. This I consider giving more feedback without costing too much conformation.
Any more I consider to be too much stiffness at the cost of adding weight.
This +1
Once I make up my mind what I want to do with my suspension, these coilovers are coming off. I've removed a fair bit of flex out of the body. Now I need the suspension to match for daily driving.
Quote from: shnazzle on August 24, 2019, 14:50Once I make up my mind what I want to do with my suspension, these coilovers are coming off. I've removed a fair bit of flex out of the body. Now I need the suspension to match for daily driving.
With my lightend car, the springs could be shortened a little, going to júst under OEM static hight, nut maintaining the OEM dynamic ride hight becasue shortening the springs in effect makes them stiffer if even so little. Carolyn pointed me to some insightful info about the latter.
Also the lower unsprung as well as sprung weight could do with less damping, resulting in the OEM damping being relatively that much ´harder´ while remaining the same in respect to the springs.
The stiffened tub/chassis gives more responsiveness, the compliant suspension conforms with the road surfac.
The combination results in a more responsive yet very well conforming car. Wáy too soft for the track, gréat for B-roads.
You're really going to be hard pressed to tell mine apart from the original once it's coated :)
(https://i.ibb.co/4gL8QZr/IMG-9960.jpg)
Well done!
In two words:
Im pressive.
Seriously; faultless remakes.
Thanks guys, it's really a pleasure to see it all coming together. These are now done, today I also bent the tubes for the main brace.
(https://i.ibb.co/yhzHYfR/IMG-9971.jpg)
Good stuff! Please let me know costs etc when ready.
Will do! When everything's ready I'll make a dedicated thread with all the relevant information.
I wonder: Would there be any demand for front under braces? I have a TRD one and could easily make similar braces, only improved of course. Would people here be interested in those?
I'm talking about braces similar to these:
(https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/resources/accessory-images/TPD/large/19_10536_275x180.jpg)
I'd be interested as long it was compatible with the TTE style brace.. which I'm sure it would be!
To be honest I can't answer that with absolute certainty, as I haven't yet been able to find a picture of a car sporting both a TRD front brace and a TTE/Matt's midbrace. But if a TTE style brace can be combined with a TRD front brace, it can be combined with mine as well. And I'm pretty sure they can be.
[EDIT: scratch all of the above, someone on Spyderchat has been able to combine the two, so there should be no problems at all]
Quote from: Snelbaard on October 9, 2019, 16:28To be honest I can't answer that with absolute certainty, as I haven't yet been able to find a picture of a car sporting both a TRD front brace and a TTE/Matt's midbrace. But if a TTE style brace can be combined with a TRD front brace, it can be combined with mine as well. And I'm pretty sure they can be.
I have both. The front brace had to be modified to work with the TTE.
the lugs at the side had to be cut off and re-welded.
Ah I see, that's a shame. Do you by any chance have a picture of this? That way I could possibly make my braces such that no modification is needed.
You would need to include a spacer to take up the space occupied by the TTE brace, for those who don't have one.
I'll be making a small run of TTE type braces btw.
Oh I see. Do you know the thickness of the bit of angle iron of the TTE brace mounting brackets?
Quote from: Snelbaard on October 9, 2019, 16:47Oh I see. Do you know the thickness of the bit of angle iron of the TTE brace mounting brackets?
I'll measure when I next have her on the lift.
I'm very happy with my MegillianMotorsport ones... :)
So recently I bought a TRD front under brace and because I couldn't help myself, I strengthened it somewhat:
(https://i.ibb.co/k1VPfv1/IMG-9983.jpg)
If I'm going to make my own braces, they're going to be of a slightly different design. To give you a bit of a preview of what they'd look like, I spent a million hours in paint with the following result:
(https://i.ibb.co/TRDfR6W/LMR-voorbeugel.png)
PS:
@Carolyn, have you had a chance to take a look at those brackets yet?
Not yet, I'm afraid.
OK... 3 mm on the one I have.
They're now almost all done, off to the powder coater's on tuesday!
(https://i.ibb.co/x7GWh4z/IMG-9998.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/bNQHcKV/IMG-9999.jpg)
Quote from: Snelbaard on October 19, 2019, 19:00They're now almost all done, off to the powder coater's on tuesday!
(https://i.ibb.co/x7GWh4z/IMG-9998.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/bNQHcKV/IMG-9999.jpg)
Any ideas on pricing? I want one for sure.
That's great to hear! I'm going to have to get back to you on that, I still have to calculate it all. Won't be long.
Looks great, loving your work!
any update on this?
Yes, they're for sale here:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=68434.0
Quote from: Snelbaard on April 25, 2020, 12:57Yes, they're for sale here:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=68434.0
when I click on the link it says "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."
Maybe I can't access it since I am a new member?
Is there an email that I can contact you through?
I'll PM the relevant information.
Quotewhen I click on the link it says "The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."
Maybe I can't access it since I am a new member?
Is there an email that I can contact you through?
I'll PM you with the relevant information
Stumbled on a foto from the engine bay of the last version of the Spirit car.
Look at the rear strut brace they went back to....
(http://speedhunters-wp-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/12030043/Tsukuba-Super-Battle-14-48-1200x800.jpg)
Quote from: Petrus on May 5, 2020, 18:26Stumbled on a foto from the engine bay of the last version of the Spirit car.
Look at the rear strut brace they went back to....
(http://speedhunters-wp-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/12030043/Tsukuba-Super-Battle-14-48-1200x800.jpg)
I've run with, without, with different one, with different + stock... Guess how much difference I noticed?
Makes sense. Stock one does the job fine and doesn't block as much access to engine
Quote from: shnazzle on May 5, 2020, 20:15Quote from: Petrus on May 5, 2020, 18:26Stumbled on a foto from the engine bay of the last version of the Spirit car.
Look at the rear strut brace they went back to....
(http://speedhunters-wp-production.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/12030043/Tsukuba-Super-Battle-14-48-1200x800.jpg)
I've run with, without, with different one, with different + stock... Guess how much difference I noticed?
Makes sense. Stock one does the job fine and doesn't block as much access to engine
It obviously works, it´s light, it´s simple; what´s not to like.
Unlike the front the rear struts are already connected by the body extremely close so I've never seen the advantage of a rear strut brace
I have heard it suggested that the rear brace may be there to stiffen up the firewall to help with the roof mechanism operation.
No idea if its true but the brace is so flimsy that I can see the reasoning.
Quote from: Topdownman on May 6, 2020, 12:25I have heard it suggested that the rear brace may be there to stiffen up the firewall to help with the roof mechanism operation.
No idea if its true but the brace is so flimsy that I can see the reasoning.
There have been and still are bicycles with thin wire cables as the major load bearing part of the frame.
´Flimsy´ on itself says nothing.
Quote from: mr9 on May 6, 2020, 12:00Unlike the front the rear struts are already connected by the body extremely close so I've never seen the advantage of a rear strut brace
They don´t brace the struts.
The engine bay is like a square box without bottom or top. The engine does nothing as it hangs in rubbers and the subframe sits forward.
The X-race effectively stiffens up the box and take the forces together in both compression and extension in their 2D plane as that is the only plane the box will flex in.