Well my bottom end went yesterday whilst at Oulton park. Car was running MWR billet oil pump gear set, EP baffled sump and Gulf competition 15w 50 oil. I topped it up before the session so maybe something just let go.
Need a replacement 2ZZ engine now if anyone knows of a decent one going.
Quote from: JB21 on September 22, 2019, 12:07Well my bottom end went yesterday whilst at Oulton park. Car was running MWR billet oil pump gear set, EP baffled sump and Gulf competition 15w 50 oil. I topped it up before the session so maybe something just let go.
Need a replacement 2ZZ engine now if anyone knows of a decent one going.
Man! That sucks. Its getting comically common now for these things to blow.
It really does look like you did everything you could to prevent this.
:( Proper crap
Re build yours at least you'll know its good. Another 2zz may give out after a couple of track days they've all lived hard lives.
Sorry to hear this.
Rebuilding it if possible does seem like the best long term plan.
Man that sucks sorry to hear it :( , out of interest how long since oil & filter was changed and how long into that session before it let go ?
These failures are one of things that makes be doubt doing 2zz conversion and im just trying to get a idea on possible contributing causes.
Im sure you will be back bigger and better :D
Quote from: thetyrant on September 22, 2019, 18:41Man that sucks sorry to hear it :( , out of interest how long since oil & filter was changed and how long into that session before it let go ?
These failures are one of things that makes be doubt doing 2zz conversion and im just trying to get a idea on possible contributing causes.
Im sure you will be back bigger and better :D
Engine had done 2k miles (500 track/1500 road) since last oil and filter change and was still golden in colour before yesterday's track day. Bottom end went 5 laps/10 minutes into the session.
I'm still not sure what to do rebuild or replace. All depends on the current damage and rebuild costs. My look into the K20 swap as well.
From memory the k20 swap is very expensive.
Definitely rare I've been in plenty of engine swapped 2s but not a k20.
Did you change the oil yourself ? what im curious about is the fill levels with these modified sumps and different dipsticks etc, as you had the parts that should prevent these problems I wonder if there simply wasn't enough oil in there due to sump /dipstick etc.
Ive looked into k20 swap and its expensive even if you find a good/cheap/used donor civic but the finished product if engine is good is way superior to a 2zz, but then so it should be at the cost which will be £4k+ from my research unless you have access to making all the custom parts needed.
EP sump isn't the best and have heard of failures of people using it on track, would have gone with a Moroso sump for the additional engine insurance.
Were you also running an accusump at all? Its on the list for mine to ensure that I have full oil pressure even on start up to ensure that there is always oil pressure.
Quote from: thetyrant on September 23, 2019, 07:14Did you change the oil yourself ? what im curious about is the fill levels with these modified sumps and different dipsticks etc, as you had the parts that should prevent these problems I wonder if there simply wasn't enough oil in there due to sump /dipstick etc.
Ive looked into k20 swap and its expensive even if you find a good/cheap/used donor civic but the finished product if engine is good is way superior to a 2zz, but then so it should be at the cost which will be £4k+ from my research unless you have access to making all the custom parts needed.
Unfortunately didn't change it myself so like you i'm thinking the same thing. Yeah the K20 is out of the question due to cost. Its either replace or strip for parts as after a bit of reading there's no point rebuilding the 2ZZ after bottom end failure especially after I had to drive over 2 miles to get it off track for recovery as the damage will be far to much to be rebuilt.
Doesn't take very long to drop the sump and pull some bearing caps.
Then you'll know what the deal is.
Cars have been driven much further than two miles with a spun rod bearing (or two) and the engine was still rebuildable.
I do think 500 track miles on the same oil is asking a lot. Depends on how hard you drive, of course. ;)
Quote from: Carolyn on September 23, 2019, 08:37I do think 500 track miles on the same oil is asking a lot. Depends on how hard you drive, of course. ;)
On basic oil maybe, but competition derived engine oil 500 miles is fine. As mentioned the oil was still golden in colour so hadn't broken down nor had it excessive oxidisation. I work in the oil and fuel additive industry.
Quote from: JB21 on September 23, 2019, 08:54Quote from: Carolyn on September 23, 2019, 08:37I do think 500 track miles on the same oil is asking a lot. Depends on how hard you drive, of course. ;)
On basic oil maybe, but competition derived engine oil 500 miles is fine. As mentioned the oil was still golden in colour so hadn't broken down nor had it excessive oxidisation. I work in the oil and fuel additive industry.
fair enough
Quote from: Carolyn on September 23, 2019, 08:37I do think 500 track miles on the same oil is asking a lot. Depends on how hard you drive, of course. ;)
Modern day oil is pretty dam good, I have never tracked a car but have been track riding bikes for many years, my 600 Kawasaki which is constantly hitting 15k revs has an oil and filter change every 3/4 trackdays which is about 4/500 miles
Rob
I am of the humble opinion that your (in my view) aggressive 2nd gear downshifts have possibly/probably caused the engine failure. You are buzzing 8,000RPM fairly regularly. It's not a mechanical over-rev per se, but I feel that some more mechanical sympathy would possibly have prevented this.
All in my opinion, you understand.
Quote from: shnazzle on September 22, 2019, 13:07[Its getting comically common now for these things to blow
I don't agree, personally.
Where are all the posts saying: "My 2ZZ is still working fine with no issues"?
To be fair, most failure posts are reporting by exception.
In the interests of balance, my hard-worked track 2ZZ is still fine with absolutely no issues.
I have personally done just under 40,000 miles on this engine, which is currently at around 123,000 miles at the moment.
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 27, 2019, 15:13Quote from: shnazzle on September 22, 2019, 13:07[Its getting comically common now for these things to blow
I don't agree, personally.
Where are all the posts saying: "My 2ZZ is still working fine with no issues"?
To be fair, most failure posts are reporting by exception.
In the interests of balance, my hard-worked track 2ZZ is still fine with absolutely no issues.
I have personally done just under 40,000 miles on this engine, which is currently at around 123,000 miles at the moment.
Perhaps a rather inflated statement on my part, but I do firmly believe that there seems to be a bit of a bottom end trend.
And what would be equally interesting is why yours and others haven't gone under heavy use. Which yours is
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 27, 2019, 15:08I am of the humble opinion that your (in my view) aggressive 2nd gear downshifts have possibly/probably caused the engine failure. You are buzzing 8,000RPM fairly regularly. It's not a mechanical over-rev per se, but I feel that some more mechanical sympathy would possibly have prevented this.
All in my opinion, you understand.
I respect your opinion but I honestly don't think that's the case. I've got a feeling the engine oil was to low even though the dipstick read full.
Most issues with over revving come within the valve train not bottom end. And the fact it went whilst hard cornering makes me believe even more it was oil starvation.
We'll soon see when I drop the oil and see how much I get out.
Quote from: JB21 on September 27, 2019, 16:24Quote from: Alex Knight on September 27, 2019, 15:08I am of the humble opinion that your (in my view) aggressive 2nd gear downshifts have possibly/probably caused the engine failure. You are buzzing 8,000RPM fairly regularly. It's not a mechanical over-rev per se, but I feel that some more mechanical sympathy would possibly have prevented this.
All in my opinion, you understand.
I respect your opinion but I honestly don't think that's the case. I've got a feeling the engine oil was to low even though the dipstick read full.
Most issues with over revving come within the valve train not bottom end. And the fact it went whilst hard cornering makes me believe even more it was oil starvation.
We'll soon see when I drop the oil and see how much I get out.
You'll KNOW when you pull a bearing cap.
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 27, 2019, 15:13Quote from: shnazzle on September 22, 2019, 13:07[Its getting comically common now for these things to blow
I don't agree, personally.
Where are all the posts saying: "My 2ZZ is still working fine with no issues"?
To be fair, most failure posts are reporting by exception.
In the interests of balance, my hard-worked track 2ZZ is still fine with absolutely no issues.
I have personally done just under 40,000 miles on this engine, which is currently at around 123,000 miles at the moment.
Alex, out of curiosity which sump are you running?
In the lotus world most 111R owners I know run the Elise Parts sump over the Elise spares one.
I'm with alex on this one. IMO you're downshifting to 2nd prematurely after only a brief hold in 3rd, you can hear the engine buzzing repeatedly. You're slowing the car on engine braking not friction braking!
I think you've cracked your oil pump from over revs and that's what's then starved the engine.
But a dismantling will find out! Hope you can fix it mate. So much fun when they're working. Until they're not. :(
Quote from: JoeCool on September 28, 2019, 01:06I'm with alex on this one. IMO you're downshifting to 2nd prematurely after only a brief hold in 3rd, you can hear the engine buzzing repeatedly. You're slowing the car on engine braking not friction braking!
I think you've cracked your oil pump from over revs and that's what's then starved the engine.
But a dismantling will find out! Hope you can fix it mate. So much fun when they're working. Until they're not. :(
So with a cracked oil pump you think I'd have been able to finish the lap back to the pits which is over a mile. Leave it sat for 2 hours in the garage then it'd start again to drive the 2.5 miles I drove off site to get recovered?
Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.
Quote from: JoeCool on September 28, 2019, 08:31Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.
Did you have billet gearset as well?
Quote from: JB21 on September 28, 2019, 09:12Quote from: JoeCool on September 28, 2019, 08:31Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.
Did you have billet gearset as well?
Was this the billet gearset that had issues?
Quote from: shnazzle on September 28, 2019, 09:34Quote from: JB21 on September 28, 2019, 09:12Quote from: JoeCool on September 28, 2019, 08:31Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.
Did you have billet gearset as well?
Was this the billet gearset that had issues?
No idea yet mate, everyone is just guessing.
Quote from: JB21 on September 28, 2019, 10:46Quote from: shnazzle on September 28, 2019, 09:34Quote from: JB21 on September 28, 2019, 09:12Quote from: JoeCool on September 28, 2019, 08:31Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.
Did you have billet gearset as well?
Was this the billet gearset that had issues?
No idea yet mate, everyone is just guessing.
No no, I mean that on Facebook there was a billet gear that was being distributed but apparently it had a factory fault that caused it to be noisy but "so far" showed no indication of causing damage.
Was that you
@Alex Knight? They did repair the malfunction but I just wonder if this was the same one you purchased.
They
@JoeCool has had plenty of experience of the 2zz on track and has broken one too so he's only trying to help you out
@JB21 most people on here are pretty friendly.
Hopefully stripping the engine will clear up the guess work.
Quote from: Dift on September 28, 2019, 12:52Hopefully stripping the engine will clear up the guess work.
Truth!
Quote from: Dift on September 27, 2019, 20:26Quote from: Alex Knight on September 27, 2019, 15:13Quote from: shnazzle on September 22, 2019, 13:07[Its getting comically common now for these things to blow
I don't agree, personally.
Where are all the posts saying: "My 2ZZ is still working fine with no issues"?
To be fair, most failure posts are reporting by exception.
In the interests of balance, my hard-worked track 2ZZ is still fine with absolutely no issues.
I have personally done just under 40,000 miles on this engine, which is currently at around 123,000 miles at the moment.
Alex, out of curiosity which sump are you running?
In the lotus world most 111R owners I know run the Elise Parts sump over the Elise spares one.
I'm running the Elise Parts sump. Terrifically expensive, but a nice piece of kit.
Quote from: shnazzle on September 28, 2019, 11:02Quote from: JB21 on September 28, 2019, 10:46Quote from: shnazzle on September 28, 2019, 09:34Quote from: JB21 on September 28, 2019, 09:12Quote from: JoeCool on September 28, 2019, 08:31Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.
Did you have billet gearset as well?
Was this the billet gearset that had issues?
No idea yet mate, everyone is just guessing.
No no, I mean that on Facebook there was a billet gear that was being distributed but apparently it had a factory fault that caused it to be noisy but "so far" showed no indication of causing damage.
Was that you @Alex Knight? They did repair the malfunction but I just wonder if this was the same one you purchased.
They
Nah. I just went for a brand new OEM pump.
Quote from: Alex Knight on September 29, 2019, 14:43Quote from: Dift on September 27, 2019, 20:26Quote from: Alex Knight on September 27, 2019, 15:13Quote from: shnazzle on September 22, 2019, 13:07[Its getting comically common now for these things to blow
I don't agree, personally.
Where are all the posts saying: "My 2ZZ is still working fine with no issues"?
To be fair, most failure posts are reporting by exception.
In the interests of balance, my hard-worked track 2ZZ is still fine with absolutely no issues.
I have personally done just under 40,000 miles on this engine, which is currently at around 123,000 miles at the moment.
Alex, out of curiosity which sump are you running?
In the lotus world most 111R owners I know run the Elise Parts sump over the Elise spares one.
I'm running the Elise Parts sump. Terrifically expensive, but a nice piece of kit.
Im sure it's worth the extra... plus it has an extra litre of oil capacity too... every little helps.
Ive got an Elise Parts sump im pondering selling :D
The reason the bottom end went on my 2ZZ. Less than 4L of oil came out. I let it drip all day removed the oil filter and let that drain into the bucket too. With the Elise parts baffled sump it should hold 5.8L full. A standard 2ZZ sump holds 4.8L. The oil level was topped up to the full marker the session it went at Oulton.
Rouge Motorsport who done the conversion at a cost of £5500 didn't bother to space the dipstick to the EP sump when swapping the MR2 dipstick over to the 2ZZ. Bit gutted really because if I'd done an oil change I would have picked up on it.
Oh shit. Gutted.
So the dip stick only needs spacing on 2zz's with the elise parts sump or 1zz as well?
Getting worried now as I'm running as elise parts sump on my 1zz.
Quote from: thetyrant on September 23, 2019, 07:14Did you change the oil yourself ? what im curious about is the fill levels with these modified sumps and different dipsticks etc, as you had the parts that should prevent these problems I wonder if there simply wasn't enough oil in there due to sump /dipstick etc.
.........
Seems like
@thetyrant got that spot on then.
Quote from: Joesson on November 10, 2019, 17:14Quote from: thetyrant on September 23, 2019, 07:14Did you change the oil yourself ? what im curious about is the fill levels with these modified sumps and different dipsticks etc, as you had the parts that should prevent these problems I wonder if there simply wasn't enough oil in there due to sump /dipstick etc.
.........
Seems like @thetyrant got that spot on then.
Indeed. Most logical explanation really. Think we can put to bed the over revving shouts now as the valve train looks fine, 2ZZ meant to rev!
I'm actually going to use the cams and rockers from the blown unit as the ones in the replacement head look a bit worn.
All in all this has been a worthwhile thread then :)
Did you check oil level on dipstick before draining oil out of interest? I know you said it was on max before you went out on track and it let go but curious to know what it was after when less than 4 litres came out, also how much less than 4 litres was it?
Changing sump alone to higher capacity doesn't change dipstick reading just means more oil to get it to that point, the important part is oil pickup position relative to dipstick readings, I'm not 100% sure what situation is 2zz swaps and dipsticks etc but sure I read somewhere that something needs to be changed to get correct reading, could explain a lot about some of these 2zz failures.
Quote from: thetyrant on November 11, 2019, 06:09Did you check oil level on dipstick before draining oil out of interest? I know you said it was on max before you went out on track and it let go but curious to know what it was after when less than 4 litres came out, also how much less than 4 litres was it?
Changing sump alone to higher capacity doesn't change dipstick reading just means more oil to get it to that point, the important part is oil pickup position relative to dipstick readings, I'm not 100% sure what situation is 2zz swaps and dipsticks etc but sure I read somewhere that something needs to be changed to get correct reading, could explain a lot about some of these 2zz failures.
The recovery guy pulled the dipstick when he turned up and it was on the lowest level but we then couldn't get it back in so can't take that reading as a benchmark really as something had obviously shifted in the bottom end.
What I'll do on reffitting the replacement engine is verify the gap between sump floor and pick up and space accordingly to around 4mm. I'll then space the dipstick properly to match the 5.8L capacity.
That's a shame would of been good to know, I did some searching looks like the 1zz dipstick in a 2zz reads approx. a fingers width (scientific I know!) too low, I would guess that's about 1/2 litre on stock sump to get to properly full but with the bigger sump could be upto a litre i guess.
Here is thread I found on it for ref - https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/serinas-2zz-spyder-dipstick.32932/
Ive also read elsewhere about lowering the pickup tube to sit lower into sump bowl which sounds like a good idea, I meant to look into that when I had my sump off last week but never bothered in the end, certainly something to think about, need to be careful not to get too close to bottom of sump of course.
Quote from: thetyrant on November 11, 2019, 07:34That's a shame would of been good to know, I did some searching looks like the 1zz dipstick in a 2zz reads approx. a fingers width (scientific I know!) too low, I would guess that's about 1/2 litre on stock sump to get to properly full but with the bigger sump could be upto a litre i guess.
Here is thread I found on it for ref - https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/serinas-2zz-spyder-dipstick.32932/
Ive also read elsewhere about lowering the pickup tube to sit lower into sump bowl which sounds like a good idea, I meant to look into that when I had my sump off last week but never bothered in the end, certainly something to think about, need to be careful not to get too close to bottom of sump of course.
You can get spacers from the US to lower the pick up. I've still got one from when I did my old Celica 190. You just use a piece of platercine on the lowest part of the pick up and refit the sump to see how much the plastercince has squashed, which gives you the gap. Think the 2ZZ with OE sump is around 8-10mm which is to high. You then add a 4mm spacer to one side of the pick up to lower it down.
At a guess as well I'd say there is 3.5L in the bucket.
We made 8mm spacers out of ally plate. You need one for the support bracket too.
Here's a couple of modes on a standard 1zz:
Ah the attachment function had died!! Doubtless our web wizards will fix it.
pics
Here's what came out, not much at all...2 red lines are the 5L and 10L marks.
20191110_131704.jpg
Crap from the magnetic sump plug...
20191110_121713.jpg
Quote from: thetyrant on November 11, 2019, 07:34That's a shame would of been good to know, I did some searching looks like the 1zz dipstick in a 2zz reads approx. a fingers width (scientific I know!) too low, I would guess that's about 1/2 litre on stock sump to get to properly full but with the bigger sump could be upto a litre i guess.
Here is thread I found on it for ref - https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/serinas-2zz-spyder-dipstick.32932/
Ive also read elsewhere about lowering the pickup tube to sit lower into sump bowl which sounds like a good idea, I meant to look into that when I had my sump off last week but never bothered in the end, certainly something to think about, need to be careful not to get too close to bottom of sump of course.
Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).
The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.
Quote from: Alex Knight on November 11, 2019, 17:28Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).
The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.
I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?
I just used 2zz tube and dip stick, a little bit of bending involved, job done
Quote from: thetyrant on November 11, 2019, 19:07Quote from: Alex Knight on November 11, 2019, 17:28Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).
The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.
I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?
I'm using the MWR dipstick tube:
https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/ (https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/)
Quote from: Alex Knight on November 12, 2019, 09:40Quote from: thetyrant on November 11, 2019, 19:07Quote from: Alex Knight on November 11, 2019, 17:28Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).
The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.
I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?
I'm using the MWR dipstick tube:
https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/ (https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/)
Now im confused as they say that is for use with a 1zz dipstick in a 2zz engine swap but you said your using 2zz dipstick ? the 2zz stick is shorter so you would be overfilling if used with this tube, that is if its longer than 1zz tube like it should be if made specifically to use for the 2zz swap and 1zz dipstick like they are saying.
Quote from: thetyrant on November 12, 2019, 09:54Quote from: Alex Knight on November 12, 2019, 09:40Quote from: thetyrant on November 11, 2019, 19:07Quote from: Alex Knight on November 11, 2019, 17:28Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).
The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.
I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?
I'm using the MWR dipstick tube:
https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/ (https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/)
Now im confused as they say that is for use with a 1zz dipstick in a 2zz engine swap but you said your using 2zz dipstick ? the 2zz stick is shorter so you would be overfilling if used with this tube, that is if its longer than 1zz tube like it should be if made specifically to use for the 2zz swap and 1zz dipstick like they are saying.
Sorry sorry sorry!
I've had a look, and I am actually using the
1ZZ dipstick and the MWR tube.
Memory is a little hazy, as it's been 6 years since I did the 2ZZ swap!
I'll just be sticking with the current 1ZZ set up and spacing it correctly this time. If you want something doing...
How long till it's back on the road?
Quote from: Dift on December 2, 2019, 10:43How long till it's back on the road?
Not long, just putting it all back together this week. Timed it up last night and got half the ancillaries swapped over.
Its alive, its alive 😁
Dropped a teaspoon of fresh oil down each cylinder to lubricate the pistons. The smoke shown a nice crack in the back box.
Few minutes idling and some metal putty on the back box and all was well.
Happy days!
Good to see it alive again
So after a 100 mile low-medium rev period it was time to see how it performed at lift :-)
Check out where 5L of oil comes up to on the dipstick, my fingernail. Rogue Motorsport really did f**k this up with the build as they didn't bother to space the dipstick and this is 100% why the bottom end went. When reading full it only had 3.5L in it, surprised it didn't go much, much earlier.
20200108_185902.jpg
I do like the lifesavers when crossing lanes. Biker perhaps? Good observation ;D
Quote from: JB21 on January 9, 2020, 13:30So after a 100 mile low-medium rev period it was time to see how it performed at lift :-)
I keep playing this over and over again, I love it.
Quote from: JB21 on January 9, 2020, 13:35Check out where 5L of oil comes up to on the dipstick, my fingernail. Rogue Motorsport really did f**k this up with the build as they didn't bother to space the dipstick and this is 100% why the bottom end went. When reading full it only had 3.5L in it, surprised it didn't go much, much earlier.
20200108_185902.jpg
Wow, I surprised it lasted amount of time too with just that much in!
From now on I'd just do a full change before each track day and do a physical measure of whats gone in rather than going off the dipstick!
Quote from: Gaz2405 on January 9, 2020, 20:22Quote from: JB21 on January 9, 2020, 13:35Check out where 5L of oil comes up to on the dipstick, my fingernail. Rogue Motorsport really did f**k this up with the build as they didn't bother to space the dipstick and this is 100% why the bottom end went. When reading full it only had 3.5L in it, surprised it didn't go much, much earlier.
20200108_185902.jpg
Wow, I surprised it lasted amount of time too with just that much in!
From now on I'd just do a full change before each track day and do a physical measure of whats gone in rather than going off the dipstick!
I've crimped the wire where my thumbnail is in the pic as I'll still need to account for usage throughout a track day and top up accordingly. The EP sump is supposed to hold 5.7L so as long as I keep it on or just above the crimp mark it should always have 5L in there.
Good to see its back on the road :D ...im surprised Rogue have missed this dipstick issue as they must of done the most of anyone of these 2zz conversions in UK! at least your back up and running ready for this years track fun :D
Quote from: thetyrant on January 10, 2020, 09:42Good to see its back on the road :D ...im surprised Rogue have missed this dipstick issue as they must of done the most of anyone of these 2zz conversions in UK! at least your back up and running ready for this years track fun :D
I'm surprised too, and if I'd paid £5700 for the conversion as the previous owner did I would have demanded they supply and fit a new engine. Just so happens they wanted nothing to do with it being the car had been sold on...
I wouldn't touch Rouge with a barge pole due to the dealings I've had with them.
Quote from: JB21 on January 10, 2020, 10:07Quote from: thetyrant on January 10, 2020, 09:42Good to see its back on the road :D ...im surprised Rogue have missed this dipstick issue as they must of done the most of anyone of these 2zz conversions in UK! at least your back up and running ready for this years track fun :D
I'm surprised too, and if I'd paid £5700 for the conversion as the previous owner did I would have demanded they supply and fit a new engine. Just so happens they wanted nothing to do with it being the car had been sold on...
I wouldn't touch Rouge with a barge pole due to the dealings I've had with them.
It's difficult, most likely not done on purpose and purely missed by one of the techs doing the job. Could have had swap over of techs during the build or anything.
I can see where both parties are coming from, I run a construction company unfortunately can't be everywhere at once to check on the works people are doing. I suppose the construction industry does have more checks in place now, similar to manufacturing processes with Inspection and test Plans etc.
I know more garages and workshops now have work signed off by two people to double check small items that could have been missed. Like this for instance just a small spacer missed on a dipstick tube and has casued engine failure.
Look on the brightside, you now know it been done properly and no doubt learned a load about your car as well!
Good and bad everywhere.
Have seen previously poor work by rouge and some good.
Like wood sport some people have a good experience but all the ones I've seen in Mk3 are poor imho.
Buyer beware both eyes open and all that.
Im not a 2zz swapper not my cup of tea bit I've been into modified 2s for years now and it was only last year I learnt of this issue. 🤔🙄
Sorry to see this happened.
In fairness it's no ones fault as the fault as exists everywhere. I mentioned this issue in multiple boards and even commissioned someone to make a revised dipstick that reads correctly and it did not sell very well because no one cared as they were more interested in larger sumps or the 1ZZ sump.
It will continue to be overlooked but realisticly a 2ZZ that is just used for street with the stock pan should not encounter any issues.
One other thing to note which is important is when you decide to lower your pick up tube which is a good idea but it comes with its own risks. If you are lowered and hit a rock or curb which has happed to owners you will take out your engine. There is a plate available for the stock pan that you can weld in for extra safety incase it gets crushed.
Quote from: mr2noob on January 11, 2020, 18:31Reading so much about 2zz failures makes me glad I couldn't afford to do my swap. xD If I had the money I'd probably go for 2gr swap from Camry, for low and mid-end grunt, instead - I pretty much never drive over 5k RPM, much less 6k.
It's all about the quality of the swap and the state of the engine when it went it.
It can be a very reliable swap
Quote from: shnazzle on January 11, 2020, 18:50Quote from: mr2noob on January 11, 2020, 18:31Reading so much about 2zz failures makes me glad I couldn't afford to do my swap. xD If I had the money I'd probably go for 2gr swap from Camry, for low and mid-end grunt, instead - I pretty much never drive over 5k RPM, much less 6k.
It's all about the quality of the swap and the state of the engine when it went it.
It can be a very reliable swap
It can but for people who want torque or don't like to rev things to death you can't beat a V6.
Although tbh you need to rev a stock 1zz to death to make decent progress imho. Although I'm sure
@Ardent would disagree.
Even my turbo liked revs although not entirely necessary your honour 😇
Quote from: 1979scotte on January 12, 2020, 01:09Quote from: shnazzle on January 11, 2020, 18:50Quote from: mr2noob on January 11, 2020, 18:31Reading so much about 2zz failures makes me glad I couldn't afford to do my swap. xD If I had the money I'd probably go for 2gr swap from Camry, for low and mid-end grunt, instead - I pretty much never drive over 5k RPM, much less 6k.
It's all about the quality of the swap and the state of the engine when it went it.
It can be a very reliable swap
It can but for people who want torque or don't like to rev things to death you can't beat a V6.
Although tbh you need to rev a stock 1zz to death to make decent progress imho. Although I'm sure @Ardent would disagree.
Even my turbo liked revs although not entirely necessary your honour 😇
Absolutely.
Unfortunately displacement (or fake displacement) is the only road to torque. N/A 1.8 petrol are never going to be torquey.
Supercharger is the only unknown hope for me. Tried turbo. Not for me. Tried 2zz. Not for me. Tried highly modded 1zz, getting there. Tried highly modded 2zz...so far top of my list.
Once Carolyn's SC is roadworthy I'm going to have to convince her to give me a go :) That HAS to be the sweet spot.
So glad to have this back to full health after the rebuild.
That sound!!!
Unfortunately I'd forgotten to reset my SJCAM after messing with the EV settings the night before so exposure is shocking through the windscreen 😫
Good to see its back out doing what it does best :) sounds excellent!