MR2 2ZZ engine failure on track

[JB21]

Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.

Did you have billet gearset as well?

Was this the billet gearset that had issues?

No idea yet mate, everyone is just guessing.

[shnazzle]

Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.

Did you have billet gearset as well?

Was this the billet gearset that had issues?

No idea yet mate, everyone is just guessing.

No no, I mean that on Facebook there was a billet gear that was being distributed but apparently it had a factory fault that caused it to be noisy but "so far" showed no indication of causing damage. 

Was that you @Alex Knight? They did repair the malfunction but I just wonder if this was the same one you purchased. 
They

[1979scotte]

@JoeCool has had plenty of experience of the 2zz on track and has broken one too so he's only trying to help you out @JB21 most people on here are pretty friendly.

[Dift]

Hopefully stripping the engine will clear up the guess work.
 

[shnazzle]

Hopefully stripping the engine will clear up the guess work.
 

Truth!

[Alex Knight]

[Its getting comically common now for these things to blow

I don't agree, personally.

Where are all the posts saying: "My 2ZZ is still working fine with no issues"?

To be fair, most failure posts are reporting by exception.

In the interests of balance, my hard-worked track 2ZZ is still fine with absolutely no issues.
I have personally done just under 40,000 miles on this engine, which is currently at around 123,000 miles at the moment.

Alex, out of curiosity which sump are you running?

In the lotus world most 111R owners I know run the Elise Parts sump over the Elise spares one.

I'm running the Elise Parts sump. Terrifically expensive, but a nice piece of kit.

[Alex Knight]

Yep. Drove mine an equivalent distance with no oil pressure.

Did you have billet gearset as well?

Was this the billet gearset that had issues?

No idea yet mate, everyone is just guessing.

No no, I mean that on Facebook there was a billet gear that was being distributed but apparently it had a factory fault that caused it to be noisy but "so far" showed no indication of causing damage.

Was that you @Alex Knight? They did repair the malfunction but I just wonder if this was the same one you purchased.
They

Nah. I just went for a brand new OEM pump.

[Dift]

[Its getting comically common now for these things to blow

I don't agree, personally.

Where are all the posts saying: "My 2ZZ is still working fine with no issues"?

To be fair, most failure posts are reporting by exception.

In the interests of balance, my hard-worked track 2ZZ is still fine with absolutely no issues.
I have personally done just under 40,000 miles on this engine, which is currently at around 123,000 miles at the moment.

Alex, out of curiosity which sump are you running?

In the lotus world most 111R owners I know run the Elise Parts sump over the Elise spares one.

I'm running the Elise Parts sump. Terrifically expensive, but a nice piece of kit.

Im sure it's worth the extra... plus it has an extra litre of oil capacity too... every little helps.

[thetyrant]

Ive got an Elise Parts sump im pondering selling

[JB21]

The reason the bottom end went on my 2ZZ. Less than 4L of oil came out. I let it drip all day removed the oil filter and let that drain into the bucket too. With the Elise parts baffled sump it should hold 5.8L full. A standard 2ZZ sump holds 4.8L. The oil level was topped up to the full marker the session it went at Oulton.

Rouge Motorsport who done the conversion at a cost of £5500 didn't bother to space the dipstick to the EP sump when swapping the MR2 dipstick over to the 2ZZ. Bit gutted really because if I'd done an oil change I would have picked up on it.

[Gaz2405]

Oh shit. Gutted.

So the dip stick only needs spacing on 2zz's with the elise parts sump or 1zz as well?

Getting worried now as I'm running as elise parts sump on my 1zz.

[Joesson]

Did you change the oil yourself ?  what im curious about is the fill levels with these modified sumps and different dipsticks etc, as you had the parts that should prevent these problems I wonder if there simply wasn't enough oil in there due to sump /dipstick etc.
.........

Seems like @thetyrant got that spot on then.

[JB21]

Did you change the oil yourself ?  what im curious about is the fill levels with these modified sumps and different dipsticks etc, as you had the parts that should prevent these problems I wonder if there simply wasn't enough oil in there due to sump /dipstick etc.
.........

Seems like @thetyrant got that spot on then.

Indeed. Most logical explanation really. Think we can put to bed the over revving shouts now as the valve train looks fine, 2ZZ meant to rev!

I'm actually going to use the cams and rockers from the blown unit as the ones in the replacement head look a bit worn.

[shnazzle]

All in all this has been a worthwhile thread then

[thetyrant]

Did you check oil level on dipstick before draining oil out of interest? I know you said it was on max before you went out on track and it let go but curious to know what it was after when less than 4 litres came out, also how much less than 4 litres was it?

Changing sump alone to higher capacity doesn't change dipstick reading just means more oil to get it to that point, the important part is oil pickup position relative to dipstick readings, I'm not 100% sure what situation is 2zz swaps and dipsticks etc but sure I read somewhere that something needs to be changed to get correct reading, could explain a lot about some of these 2zz failures.

[JB21]

Did you check oil level on dipstick before draining oil out of interest? I know you said it was on max before you went out on track and it let go but curious to know what it was after when less than 4 litres came out, also how much less than 4 litres was it?

Changing sump alone to higher capacity doesn't change dipstick reading just means more oil to get it to that point, the important part is oil pickup position relative to dipstick readings, I'm not 100% sure what situation is 2zz swaps and dipsticks etc but sure I read somewhere that something needs to be changed to get correct reading, could explain a lot about some of these 2zz failures.

The recovery guy pulled the dipstick when he turned up and it was on the lowest level but we then couldn't get it back in so can't take that reading as a benchmark really as something had obviously shifted in the bottom end.

What I'll do on reffitting the replacement engine is verify the gap between sump floor and pick up and space accordingly to around 4mm. I'll then space the dipstick properly to match the 5.8L capacity.

[thetyrant]

That's a shame would of been good to know, I did some searching looks like the 1zz dipstick in a 2zz reads approx. a fingers width (scientific I know!) too low, I would guess that's about 1/2 litre on stock sump to get to properly full but with the bigger sump could be upto a litre i guess.

Here is thread I found on it for ref - https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/serinas-2zz-spyder-dipstick.32932/

Ive also read elsewhere about lowering the pickup tube to sit lower into sump bowl which sounds like a good idea, I meant to look into that when I had my sump off last week but never bothered in the end, certainly something to think about, need to be careful not to get too close to bottom of sump of course.

[JB21]

That's a shame would of been good to know, I did some searching looks like the 1zz dipstick in a 2zz reads approx. a fingers width (scientific I know!) too low, I would guess that's about 1/2 litre on stock sump to get to properly full but with the bigger sump could be upto a litre i guess.

Here is thread I found on it for ref - https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/serinas-2zz-spyder-dipstick.32932/

Ive also read elsewhere about lowering the pickup tube to sit lower into sump bowl which sounds like a good idea, I meant to look into that when I had my sump off last week but never bothered in the end, certainly something to think about, need to be careful not to get too close to bottom of sump of course.

You can get spacers from the US to lower the pick up. I've still got one from when I did my old Celica 190. You just use a piece of platercine on the lowest part of the pick up and refit the sump to see how much the plastercince has squashed, which gives you the gap. Think the 2ZZ with OE sump is around 8-10mm which is to high. You then add a 4mm spacer to one side of the pick up to lower it down.

At a guess as well I'd say there is 3.5L in the bucket.

[Carolyn]

We made 8mm spacers out of ally plate.  You need one for  the support bracket too.

Here's a couple of modes on a standard 1zz:

Ah the attachment function had died!!  Doubtless our web wizards will fix it.

[Carolyn]

pics

[JB21]

Here's what came out, not much at all...2 red lines are the 5L and 10L marks.
 
You cannot view this attachment.

[JB21]

Crap from the magnetic sump plug...

You cannot view this attachment.

[Alex Knight]

That's a shame would of been good to know, I did some searching looks like the 1zz dipstick in a 2zz reads approx. a fingers width (scientific I know!) too low, I would guess that's about 1/2 litre on stock sump to get to properly full but with the bigger sump could be upto a litre i guess.

Here is thread I found on it for ref - https://www.spyderchat.com/threads/serinas-2zz-spyder-dipstick.32932/

Ive also read elsewhere about lowering the pickup tube to sit lower into sump bowl which sounds like a good idea, I meant to look into that when I had my sump off last week but never bothered in the end, certainly something to think about, need to be careful not to get too close to bottom of sump of course.

Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).

The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.

[thetyrant]

Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).

The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.

I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?

[KRAMSNEHPETS]

I just used 2zz tube and dip stick, a little bit of bending involved, job done