MR2 2ZZ engine failure on track

[Alex Knight]

Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).

The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.

I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?

I'm using the MWR dipstick tube:

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/

[thetyrant]

Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).

The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.

I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?

I'm using the MWR dipstick tube:

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/

Now im confused as they say that is for use with a 1zz dipstick in a 2zz engine swap but you said your using 2zz dipstick ?  the 2zz stick is shorter so you would be overfilling if used with this tube, that is if its longer than 1zz tube like it should be if made specifically to use for the 2zz swap and 1zz dipstick like they are saying.

[Alex Knight]

Would a simple solution not to be to just use a 2ZZ dipstick?
That's what I'm doing, and also using an EP sump (not that that should matter at all).

The correct dipstick for the correct engine will always read correctly.

I didnt think you could as it puts it around front of engine so hard to access when stuffed into back of an MR2 ?

I'm using the MWR dipstick tube:

https://www.monkeywrenchracing.com/product/mwr-dipstick-tube-mr2-spyder-2zz-swap/

Now im confused as they say that is for use with a 1zz dipstick in a 2zz engine swap but you said your using 2zz dipstick ?  the 2zz stick is shorter so you would be overfilling if used with this tube, that is if its longer than 1zz tube like it should be if made specifically to use for the 2zz swap and 1zz dipstick like they are saying.

Sorry sorry sorry!

I've had a look, and I am actually using the 1ZZ dipstick and the MWR tube.

Memory is a little hazy, as it's been 6 years since I did the 2ZZ swap!

[JB21]

I'll just be sticking with the current 1ZZ set up and spacing it correctly this time. If you want something doing...

[Dift]

How long till it's back on the road?

[JB21]

How long till it's back on the road?

Not long, just putting it all back together this week. Timed it up last night and got half the ancillaries swapped over.

[JB21]

Its alive, its alive 😁

Dropped a teaspoon of fresh oil down each cylinder to lubricate the pistons. The smoke shown a nice crack in the back box.

Few minutes idling and some metal putty on the back box and all was well.

[Dift]

Happy days!

Good to see it alive again

[JB21]

So after a 100 mile low-medium rev period it was time to see how it performed at lift :-)

[JB21]

Check out where 5L of oil comes up to on the dipstick, my fingernail. Rogue Motorsport really did f**k this up with the build as they didn't bother to space the dipstick and this is 100% why the bottom end went. When reading full it only had 3.5L in it, surprised it didn't go much, much earlier.

You cannot view this attachment.

[Chilli Girl]

I do like the lifesavers when crossing lanes. Biker perhaps? Good observation

[Chilli Girl]

So after a 100 mile low-medium rev period it was time to see how it performed at lift :-)

I keep playing this over and over again, I love it.

[Gaz2405]

Check out where 5L of oil comes up to on the dipstick, my fingernail. Rogue Motorsport really did f**k this up with the build as they didn't bother to space the dipstick and this is 100% why the bottom end went. When reading full it only had 3.5L in it, surprised it didn't go much, much earlier.

You cannot view this attachment.

Wow, I surprised it lasted amount of time too with just that much in!

From now on I'd just do a full change before each track day and do a physical measure of whats gone in rather than going off the dipstick!

[JB21]

Check out where 5L of oil comes up to on the dipstick, my fingernail. Rogue Motorsport really did f**k this up with the build as they didn't bother to space the dipstick and this is 100% why the bottom end went. When reading full it only had 3.5L in it, surprised it didn't go much, much earlier.

You cannot view this attachment.

Wow, I surprised it lasted amount of time too with just that much in!

From now on I'd just do a full change before each track day and do a physical measure of whats gone in rather than going off the dipstick!

I've crimped the wire where my thumbnail is in the pic as I'll still need to account for usage throughout a track day and top up accordingly. The EP sump is supposed to hold 5.7L so as long as I keep it on or just above the crimp mark it should always have 5L in there.

[thetyrant]

Good to see its back on the road    ...im surprised Rogue have missed this dipstick issue as they must of done the most of anyone of these 2zz conversions in UK!  at least your back up and running ready for this years track fun

[JB21]

Good to see its back on the road    ...im surprised Rogue have missed this dipstick issue as they must of done the most of anyone of these 2zz conversions in UK!  at least your back up and running ready for this years track fun

I'm surprised too, and if I'd paid £5700 for the conversion as the previous owner did I would have demanded they supply and fit a new engine. Just so happens they wanted nothing to do with it being the car had been sold on...

I wouldn't touch Rouge with a barge pole due to the dealings I've had with them.

[Gaz2405]

Good to see its back on the road    ...im surprised Rogue have missed this dipstick issue as they must of done the most of anyone of these 2zz conversions in UK!  at least your back up and running ready for this years track fun

I'm surprised too, and if I'd paid £5700 for the conversion as the previous owner did I would have demanded they supply and fit a new engine. Just so happens they wanted nothing to do with it being the car had been sold on...

I wouldn't touch Rouge with a barge pole due to the dealings I've had with them.

It's difficult, most likely not done on purpose and purely missed by one of the techs doing the job. Could have had swap over of techs during the build or anything.


I can see where both parties are coming from, I run a construction company unfortunately can't be everywhere at once to check on the works people are doing. I suppose the construction industry does have more checks in place now, similar to manufacturing processes with Inspection and test Plans etc.


I know more garages and workshops now have work signed off by two people to double check small items that could have been missed. Like this for instance just a small spacer missed on a dipstick tube and has casued engine failure.


Look on the brightside, you now know it been done properly and no doubt learned a load about your car as well!

[1979scotte]

Good and bad everywhere.

Have seen previously poor work by rouge and some good.

Like wood sport some people have a good experience but all the ones I've seen in Mk3 are poor imho.

Buyer beware both eyes open and all that.

Im not a 2zz swapper not my cup of tea bit I've been into modified 2s for years now and it was only last year I learnt of this issue. 🤔🙄

[Dev]

Sorry to see this happened.
In fairness it's no ones fault as the fault as exists everywhere. I mentioned this issue in multiple boards and even commissioned someone to make a revised dipstick that reads correctly and it did not sell very well because no one cared as they were more interested in larger sumps or the 1ZZ sump. 
It will continue to be overlooked but realisticly a 2ZZ that is just used for street with the stock pan should not encounter any issues.
 
One other thing to note which is important is when you decide to lower your pick up tube which is a good idea but it comes with its own risks. If you are lowered and hit a rock or curb which has happed to owners you will take out your engine. There is a plate available for the stock pan that you can weld in for extra safety incase it gets crushed. 

[shnazzle]

Reading so much about 2zz failures makes me glad I couldn't afford to do my swap. xD If I had the money I'd probably go for 2gr swap from Camry, for low and mid-end grunt, instead - I pretty much never drive over 5k RPM, much less 6k.

It's all about the quality of the swap and the state of the engine when it went it. 

It can be a very reliable swap

[1979scotte]

Reading so much about 2zz failures makes me glad I couldn't afford to do my swap. xD If I had the money I'd probably go for 2gr swap from Camry, for low and mid-end grunt, instead - I pretty much never drive over 5k RPM, much less 6k.

It's all about the quality of the swap and the state of the engine when it went it.

It can be a very reliable swap

It can but for people who want torque or don't like to rev things to death you can't beat a V6.

Although tbh you need to rev a stock 1zz to death to make decent progress imho. Although I'm sure @Ardent would disagree.
Even my turbo liked revs although not entirely necessary your honour 😇

[shnazzle]

Reading so much about 2zz failures makes me glad I couldn't afford to do my swap. xD If I had the money I'd probably go for 2gr swap from Camry, for low and mid-end grunt, instead - I pretty much never drive over 5k RPM, much less 6k.

It's all about the quality of the swap and the state of the engine when it went it.

It can be a very reliable swap

It can but for people who want torque or don't like to rev things to death you can't beat a V6.

Although tbh you need to rev a stock 1zz to death to make decent progress imho. Although I'm sure @Ardent would disagree.
Even my turbo liked revs although not entirely necessary your honour 😇

Absolutely. 

Unfortunately displacement (or fake displacement) is the only road to torque. N/A 1.8 petrol are never going to be torquey.

Supercharger is the only unknown hope for me. Tried turbo. Not for me. Tried 2zz. Not for me. Tried highly modded 1zz, getting there. Tried highly modded 2zz...so far top of my list. 

Once Carolyn's SC is roadworthy I'm going to have to convince her to give me a go That HAS to be the sweet spot.

[JB21]

So glad to have this back to full health after the rebuild.

That sound!!!

Unfortunately I'd forgotten to reset my SJCAM after messing with the EV settings the night before so exposure is shocking through the windscreen 😫

[thetyrant]

Good to see its back out doing what it does best   sounds excellent!