Interesting video on air intakes.

Started by Dev, July 29, 2021, 14:02

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Zspeed

Quote from: Dev on August 23, 2021, 15:36
Quote from: Zspeed on August 23, 2021, 07:11
Quote from: Dev on August 22, 2021, 21:51Its good to see he finally figured it out and abandoned the vent tube.
However the placement of the air filter could be better. It would be interesting to see how much of a difference it made.



When I look along the car I can understand about the low pressure point.

It doesn't look like air would be particularly forced in like if they were at the front of the car. 

Have you ever looked into whether the extended side scoops actually create much more pressure so you might get a ram effect?

 The amount air that is required and the speed necessary for it to happen makes it a near impossibility. Not just for adding anything to our car but for most cars and motorcycles that have it in their design as its mostly a gimmick or it kind of works but at very high speed and the amount of power is not much considering the displacement of the engine. You would also need a very large opening many times the size of the intake tube so the volume of air can be compressed to be useful. Pressure is no good if you don't have volume.
 
When the aftermarket industry uses the term short ram air intake it is purely for marketing. What they are actually describing is a less restrictive intake making it easier for the engine to suck in air however you are only as good as what comes after it meaning a free flow exhaust system.

 The only thing that is of concern is creating a pocket of cold air from where the intake can draw from without mixing too much of the hot air from the engine bay. This is true with the OEM intake as there is a good reason why there is a port hole on the side of the fender rather then the OEM having a duct directly I the path of air pressure. This is so you do not bring in more dirt and contaminants directly.

 When we add our aftermarket intake directly the path of this cold air it will require more servicing but its really not that bad.
 



I did wonder. Appreciate your info
Mostly Silver 04 Roadster. 2zz MAF, Decat Manifold, Zero Sports Cat Pipe.

Zspeed

Quote from: Dev on August 23, 2021, 15:36
Quote from: Zspeed on August 23, 2021, 07:11
Quote from: Dev on August 22, 2021, 21:51Its good to see he finally figured it out and abandoned the vent tube.
However the placement of the air filter could be better. It would be interesting to see how much of a difference it made.




When I look along the car I can understand about the low pressure point.

It doesn't look like air would be particularly forced in like if they were at the front of the car. 

Have you ever looked into whether the extended side scoops actually create much more pressure so you might get a ram effect?

 The amount air that is required and the speed necessary for it to happen makes it a near impossibility. Not just for adding anything to our car but for most cars and motorcycles that have it in their design as its mostly a gimmick or it kind of works but at very high speed and the amount of power is not much considering the displacement of the engine. You would also need a very large opening many times the size of the intake tube so the volume of air can be compressed to be useful. Pressure is no good if you don't have volume.
 
When the aftermarket industry uses the term short ram air intake it is purely for marketing. What they are actually describing is a less restrictive intake making it easier for the engine to suck in air however you are only as good as what comes after it meaning a free flow exhaust system.

 The only thing that is of concern is creating a pocket of cold air from where the intake can draw from without mixing too much of the hot air from the engine bay. This is true with the OEM intake as there is a good reason why there is a port hole on the side of the fender rather then the OEM having a duct directly I the path of air pressure. This is so you do not bring in more dirt and contaminants directly.

 When we add our aftermarket intake directly the path of this cold air it will require more servicing but its really not that bad.
 



What about a velocity stack?

I think I remember Danny mentioning the hybrid filter that produces the best result features a v stack. Do you they really do much here? I believe the claim is it reduces turbulence but surely the filter will do this with the flow management it does anyway.

Mostly Silver 04 Roadster. 2zz MAF, Decat Manifold, Zero Sports Cat Pipe.

Dev

Quote from: Zspeed on August 23, 2021, 20:22
Quote from: Dev on August 23, 2021, 15:36
Quote from: Zspeed on August 23, 2021, 07:11
Quote from: Dev on August 22, 2021, 21:51Its good to see he finally figured it out and abandoned the vent tube.
However the placement of the air filter could be better. It would be interesting to see how much of a difference it made.




When I look along the car I can understand about the low pressure point.

It doesn't look like air would be particularly forced in like if they were at the front of the car. 

Have you ever looked into whether the extended side scoops actually create much more pressure so you might get a ram effect?

 The amount air that is required and the speed necessary for it to happen makes it a near impossibility. Not just for adding anything to our car but for most cars and motorcycles that have it in their design as its mostly a gimmick or it kind of works but at very high speed and the amount of power is not much considering the displacement of the engine. You would also need a very large opening many times the size of the intake tube so the volume of air can be compressed to be useful. Pressure is no good if you don't have volume.
 
When the aftermarket industry uses the term short ram air intake it is purely for marketing. What they are actually describing is a less restrictive intake making it easier for the engine to suck in air however you are only as good as what comes after it meaning a free flow exhaust system.

 The only thing that is of concern is creating a pocket of cold air from where the intake can draw from without mixing too much of the hot air from the engine bay. This is true with the OEM intake as there is a good reason why there is a port hole on the side of the fender rather then the OEM having a duct directly I the path of air pressure. This is so you do not bring in more dirt and contaminants directly.

 When we add our aftermarket intake directly the path of this cold air it will require more servicing but its really not that bad.
 



What about a velocity stack?

I think I remember Danny mentioning the hybrid filter that produces the best result features a v stack. Do you they really do much here? I believe the claim is it reduces turbulence but surely the filter will do this with the flow management it does anyway.



I do believe velocity stacks do help. How much I don't really know. My Cobb intake has a large velocity stack where the filter attaches. Unlike other filters I have used in the past the Cobb required one with a very large mouth to go over it.  I was very happy with the design and I think if you cut out the 2ZZ MAF tube it wouldn't hurt trying to find a filter with an integrated velocity stack. 

Zspeed

Quote from: Dev on August 20, 2021, 20:16Make sure that the intake sits behind the battery and is by the port hole closest to the fender.

Well it's in. 

I still have my exhaust problem unfortunately, but with the Ramair Enclosed Air filter and 2zz maf setup it seems power delivery is a bit smoother.  This maybe just be due to current conditions though as the weather has now turned.

The Zero cat pipe should finally be with me next week, so will be looking to set this asap.
Mostly Silver 04 Roadster. 2zz MAF, Decat Manifold, Zero Sports Cat Pipe.

Iain

#79
Quote from: Zspeed on August 29, 2021, 21:13
Quote from: Dev on August 20, 2021, 20:16Make sure that the intake sits behind the battery and is by the port hole closest to the fender.

Well it's in. 

I still have my exhaust problem unfortunately, but with the Ramair Enclosed Air filter and 2zz maf setup it seems power delivery is a bit smoother.  This maybe just be due to current conditions though as the weather has now turned.

The Zero cat pipe should finally be with me next week, so will be looking to set this asap.


I see there is someone else waiting on a zero cat pipe, im heading into my 7th week and beginning to get fed up waiting.

Dev

Quote from: Zspeed on August 29, 2021, 21:13
Quote from: Dev on August 20, 2021, 20:16Make sure that the intake sits behind the battery and is by the port hole closest to the fender.

Well it's in. 

I still have my exhaust problem unfortunately, but with the Ramair Enclosed Air filter and 2zz maf setup it seems power delivery is a bit smoother.  This maybe just be due to current conditions though as the weather has now turned.

The Zero cat pipe should finally be with me next week, so will be looking to set this asap.


 When you say enclosed air filter how is that done.  Do you have the filter inclosed in some sort of shied?


Zspeed

Quote from: Iain on August 29, 2021, 21:16
Quote from: Zspeed on August 29, 2021, 21:13
Quote from: Dev on August 20, 2021, 20:16Make sure that the intake sits behind the battery and is by the port hole closest to the fender.

Well it's in. 

I still have my exhaust problem unfortunately, but with the Ramair Enclosed Air filter and 2zz maf setup it seems power delivery is a bit smoother.  This maybe just be due to current conditions though as the weather has now turned.

The Zero cat pipe should finally be with me next week, so will be looking to set this asap.


I see there is someone else waiting on a zero cat pipe, im heading into my 7th week and beginning to get fed up waiting.

Blimey, that must be longer than me. I expect you will get yours at the same time next week as Kevin said he had decided to do a batch together once the cats had arrived. I assumed he was doing them for stock but maybe there are a few of us.
Mostly Silver 04 Roadster. 2zz MAF, Decat Manifold, Zero Sports Cat Pipe.

Zspeed

Quote from: Dev on August 29, 2021, 21:53
Quote from: Zspeed on August 29, 2021, 21:13
Quote from: Dev on August 20, 2021, 20:16Make sure that the intake sits behind the battery and is by the port hole closest to the fender.

Well it's in. 

I still have my exhaust problem unfortunately, but with the Ramair Enclosed Air filter and 2zz maf setup it seems power delivery is a bit smoother.  This maybe just be due to current conditions though as the weather has now turned.

The Zero cat pipe should finally be with me next week, so will be looking to set this asap.


 When you say enclosed air filter how is that done.  Do you have the filter inclosed in some sort of shied?


It's like the bmc cda filter, the filter is inside a shaped sealed casing with the correct sized outlet for the maf to fit. 

It has a slightly larger inlet, about 80mm which you can attach a duct to, but I felt as I have managed to get the filter end right up against the oe duct there is no point after our conversation about the low pressure zone.

This way the whole filter casing is tucked behind the battery and will be exposed to the air flow so can't imagine much heat soak possible. I will see how it feels to the touch after a good drive. I think you could also wrap with heat reflective material without a problem.
Mostly Silver 04 Roadster. 2zz MAF, Decat Manifold, Zero Sports Cat Pipe.

Zspeed

@Dev for your info. I'll get a pic in situ if I get time to take the battery out again.
Mostly Silver 04 Roadster. 2zz MAF, Decat Manifold, Zero Sports Cat Pipe.

Dev

If it works great.  I have tried something like that with a shield that incases the air filter.  It does reduce temps however I found in my use case that it was restricting. After removing the incasement the filter was able to draw in more air and the car felt more powerful. Even though the intake temps were higher it made better power because it was not restricted. My car is a 2ZZ which takes in more air so it could be different with the 1ZZ.
 
The best way to log intake temps is though a ODB2 device.






Zspeed


 
The best way to log intake temps is though a ODB2 device.






[/quote]
I just realised I have one already but the instructions are a little bit light. Is there a technical term that they may have used instead for air intake temp?
Mostly Silver 04 Roadster. 2zz MAF, Decat Manifold, Zero Sports Cat Pipe.

Dev

Quote from: Zspeed on September 26, 2021, 22:08The best way to log intake temps is though a ODB2 device.






I just realised I have one already but the instructions are a little bit light. Is there a technical term that they may have used instead for air intake temp?
[/quote]

 Each one does it differently. I remember one of them had the abbreviation of IA.
 The best way to know is to observe values when you are driving. If they go up when you are at a stop and then gradually go down its probably that one especially if the values look like typical temp values. The one I have has intake temp programed into the skin.


Gannumay

It's great that you're also planning further experiments; real-world tests like these offer invaluable insights for the community. If you're considering documenting these experiments, recording your process could be helpful to others. A good resource for capturing your screen and audio simultaneously while running your tests is available here: https://www.movavi.com/learning-portal/record-screen-windows-10-with-audio.html.

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