Hi,
I'm thinking of getting a hardtop for my MK3 and have read that many people think it "completely transforms the car." Other than being quieter and looking better, surely an extra 50kg so high up detracts quite severely from the car's performance? I'd be interested to hear what others have found before I go and spend a load of cash - even secondhand ones aren't cheap.
Many thanks
Al
Depends on how you interpret performance. Yes its adding weight, but its very effective at tightening the car up and improving the handling. Not sure about the aerodynamic advantages but it has to be an improvement on softop or top-down motoring.
I've been adding bracing steadily over the past couple of years, but any time the hardtop has gone on its been a very noticeable improvement on the twisties and more stable at motorway speeds.
Adding the hardtop after driving around all summer without it definitely makes mine feel different. It seems to roll a bit more in the corners with the weight higher up (my '2 is bone stock). Yes, it is quieter, and arguably a bit stiffer, though the roll in a stock set up may work to counteract any additional stiffness as a result of putting the lid on. With the '2 feeding back as well as it does, there's certainly the feeling of something 'different' going on, so I feel as if I have to slightly modify my driving style initially to cope with the change - though I suspect that's probably more my imagination than anything else.
Thats a good point Phil ... it does change the characteristics of the car and requires a bit of learning when you switch.
Oh, & as for weight, I think you'll find its 50lbs (22.7kg) not 50kg. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "spit"Oh, & as for weight, I think you'll find its 50lbs (22.7kg) not 50kg. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
For a minute I thought I'm strong, lifting 50kg around myself...but you just had to spoil it! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
Quote from: "alexcday"Hi,
I'm thinking of getting a hardtop for my MK3 and have read that many people think it "completely transforms the car." Other than being quieter and looking better, surely an extra 50kg so high up detracts quite severely from the car's performance? I'd be interested to hear what others have found before I go and spend a load of cash - even secondhand ones aren't cheap.
Many thanks
Al
Hi, Hard top it so good in the winter your think you got two car's and no change to the performance at all and looks very good to.
just think you got, hard top, soft top or no top
Gary stone
i'v just taken mine off this week as the sun seems to visit occasionally.
must admit the driving feels very different.
hardtop = very stiff setup, little more roll in the corners.
softtop = less body roll in the corners, more vertical feeling through the car, ie suspension going up and down.
no top = more independent suspension feeling i.e even with the FSB i feel the suspension over bumps get judders through the steering etc.
not as clear as i could be been a long day, this is about as much as i feel like writing. hope this makes sense.
definitly yes! get one! it does improve the cars handling and i think looks kool aswell s8) 8) s8) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
they should have made it a standard part for all 2's
thumbs up!
I love the hardtop on the car but what I was thinking is on the track would it be better on or off ?
its one of the things i love about the 2, its like owning 3 different cars.
with the roof on it feels more planted,
but with soft top on it feels more communicative
for tracking i wouldn't have the top down, unless you had some serious bracing under the car.
saying that i've never been on a track and could be miles off, i'm sure someone more track experienced will correct me.
you might not be that far off!
alot on the guys on SC that do the autocross dont use hardtops, i think it is less is more!
you can get the same handling effects as haveing a hardtop on the 2 with braceing. the TTE underbody brace with some form of braceing at the top of the car will give you a similar effect. Personally i have a one piece davids bars and a corkies plate, works well
I totally agree with Stu, I have the TTE underbody, and Cusco FSB and notice no difference with the hard top being off. It didn't roll much with the top on , as I have uprated ARBs, but the weight distribution must be slightly better. On a B road blast on saturday it felt so well balanced.
We talk a huge amount about getting more power on here, that is good too, but the advantages of a sweetly set up 2 should not be under estimated.
Bracing improves the 2 so much, it has to be worth quite a few horses, certainly nicer and easier to drive imho. s:) :) s:)
Do you want a red one - I have one for sale!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
you guys have no scrupals,
any oportunity to sell something to some one, and there is the gratuatus plug. (not using any names liz and phil) s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
by the way, i'm saving up for some stuff for the car and wandered if anybody wanted to buy the following items,
-my soul
-my body
-my mind
-my DNA
open to offers
(or if the vultures are coming name what you want s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
We already have your soul , it belongs to the club. ( said in a spine tingling Vincent Price voice) s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
true,
and the club also seems to have my wallet as well,
so still selling my body and mind! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
body and mind should be able to afford a new valve cap then s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
got those already s:D :D s:D
thats a bit mean thought i might at least be able to afford a new TRD radiator cap
sorry could'nt resist and your right i was mean im sure body and mind is worth more than a valve cap s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Good points:
Hardtop stiffens up the car a lot.
Vibration through the steering wheel is significantly reduced.
The windscreen doesn't shake as much (something you only really notice after taking the hard top off).
Steering feels more precise.
Stock exhaust sounds much better in the car with the hardtop on.
Performance wise, I was neck and neck at Elvington with a softtopped 2 (which also had a Unichip) so not much in it.
The reason why it feels like it rolls more with the top on is because the body isn't flexing as much, which is absorbing some of the stress.
I can see the impact on steering from my track day videos. With the softtop down, I can see me adjusting my steering going into a corner, with the hardtop on I look a lot smoother. It's the result of less body flex.
Downsides
The car can seem more clinical with the hardtop on. With the softtop there seems a tad more fun messing around with lifting off the throttle. I think it's because there is a delay as the chassis stops flexing so it feels like it's reacting more.
I always want to take it off if it's not raining.
the only reason you should want a hard top for your 2 should be for the winter months not for better handling the whole point of the 2 is its a convertible i think you should look else were for handling performance like springs and chasis braces etc then even with the top down you will still be able to enjoy exellent handling , the tte chassis brace may even provide as much extra stiffening as a hard top
very true fire power,
i got mine for the winter to protect the soft top from frost and other nasty stuff.
took mine off at the weekend, now back to soft top. i foundover the winter their were several days when i wanted to drive home from work with the roff down but couldn't cos i had the hardtop.
the only other time i would put the hardtop on would be for security if i was going somewhere i didn't know and thought it a dodgy area. wouldn't want my soft top slashed by some opertunist pikey, who wanted to try my car for free.
(used to live in coventry, believe i was in the highest insurance bracket in the country at the time CV1) (used to leave the car bare when packed in the comunal carpark, cos if you left something in it, it wouldn't be there in the morning. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Quote from: "firepower"the only reason you should want a hard top for your 2 should be for the winter months not for better handling the whole point of the 2 is its a convertible i think you should look else were for handling performance like springs and chasis braces etc then even with the top down you will still be able to enjoy exellent handling , the tte chassis brace may even provide as much extra stiffening as a hard top
I believe that WoodenDummy[1] removed his soft-top in favour of a permanent hard-top because he thought the improvements were worth having. Horses for courses, I suppose.
[1] Used to post here lots, but I think has moved on to a VX220 so hasn't been seen here for a while
Some of us bought an MR2 because it was a good handling car, cheap to run, and rear wheel drive. Being able to take the roof down is an added bonus.
The hardtop improves the chassis strength no end and is not just for winter.
Having said that, I didn't put mine on at all this winter. I would have done for the Bedford track day though (had it not been cancelled).
A bad thing about the hardtop is feeling how wobbly the car is after you take it off.
Quote from: "filcee"I believe that WoodenDummy[1] removed his soft-top in favour of a permanent hard-top because he thought the improvements were worth having. Horses for courses, I suppose
my views exactly!
why buy a convertible and then fit a hard top just to improve chassis and handling you may as well buy a coupe. the whole point of a convertible is so you can easily drop the top when the good weather comes, fit some good chassis braces and have the best of both worlds s:D :D s:D
TBH i never bought the car for that reason and it never entered my head when buying the car!
i always thought convertibles were for poses and i still do s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
i loved the low down feel of the ride plus i thought at the time it was a nippy car and i liked the look! it was all about vanity! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
yes and the best way to pose is with the top down which is difficult to do with the hard top fitted s:D :D s:D
im not saying not to buy a hard top all im trying to say is that the hard tops main purpose is security and comfort in the winter anything else it provides is secondary so if you require a better handling car you should approach the mod differently
on the other hand the main purpose of chassis braces is to provide a more rigid chassis and better handling
Mines looking good with the roof on at the moment. A bit more jap style.
Still need to work on my dad for this years storage arangements s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I think the softop is so good, leak free and easy to use, that the only reason I would consider a hard top is for security purposes. The car is quite stiff anyway - have a quick drive of a Renault Megane Convertible and you will soon feel real scuttle shake - like driving a trifle on rollerskates.
I really like the fact that without a hard top you can put the top down at a moment's notice -- on a couple of really cold bright days mid Jan I did this - hat, scarf and gloves, heater on full - fantastic.
Mind you, I did initially want one with a hard top, but now not too bothered that I haven't got one. There is also the storage problem to consider.