Looks like i am going to be stripping the engine down to find my persistant stalling problem this weekend. Changed the sparks now going to look at the injectors. Has anyone done this? Looking for some advice on removing the injectors - what to remove to do this safely and without petrol everywhere.
Also does anyone know the size and make of the Hass injectors - Sean, Dan, Mark?). Does anyone know of a good testing place to get them cleaned or checked and also a good place to get replacements if needed.
Our fuel rail doesn't seem to hold a huge amount of pressure - when we did Dan's we just undid the couple of bolts that hold the rail (and wiring above it, IIRC) on and pulled the rail upward - you'll want a towel or two down there to soak up what dribbles out, though s:) :) s:)
That is good to know. Would it be worth removing the relay to the fuel pump or EFI(where ever that is).
or the STB and PCV?
Tommy,
As you havent posted previously on the subject of the stall, can you perhaps give us some more detail of when this happens?
I managed to make my Hass do this when I disconnected the recirc BOV control line - the car would start and idle, but if the throttle was closed whilst on boost and the revs allowed to drop to idle the engine stalled.
It's worth noting that I have the older setup with the MAF pre-turbo, whereas Mark has the retro-fitted the post-turbo MAF pipework and is running his car with the atmos BOV blanked (or disconnected - not sure which). Mark's car to my knowldege does not stall.
Where is your MAF located relative to the turbo?
some more info fro all
Toms kit is the old design with MAF preturbo
the Hass injectors are identical to those supplied by Monkeywrench (they are sold as 380cc) but rated at 420cc for our application due to the effective of our fuel pressure.
Aarron is correct ref teh fuel rail.
some more info on the stall itself would be useful.
have you tried injector cleaner?
looked for air leaks around teh MAF?
cleaned teh maf?
checked the plugs?
if your haven't already I'd check the black hose connecting teh BOV to teh intake, it gets quite brittle with heat and has a habit of splitting.
Mine was unnoticeable without close inspection.
It is one of the original pre turbo MAF setups. Its a problem I've had for some time, but very intermittantly. The car has been performing very well and then the next day it wont start, or it does start and then stops dead a mile away from home. I'll go back to it a day later and it starts again fine and then works perfectly until i need to fill it up with petrol. After which it will run fine, but the next day not start again. I have tried all the fuel, injector cleaner i can be bothered with. i have no obvious air leaks or loose connections, so want to look at the injectors. Also i had a big rather large bang the last time i started up and thought it may be a leaking injector or that the o ring had gone.
Yep, cleaned the MAF and just put some new plugs in too
Tom this is teh same problem you had way back after we fitted it?
Since you hadn't mentioed it since I assumed all was well.
I suggest you disconnect the VSV solenoid from teh vaccum pipe, pluh the pipe with a bolt and cable tie it.
and seeif that helps.
teh fact that your reporting it seeming fuel related and it's after a fill up make this worth checking.
The bang occurs due to the way the eManage cycles it's outputs at power-on - basically all of coil-packs get energised, then disconnected, causing a spark in each of the cylinders. If there is any residual fuel in the cylinders it will be ignited - not good if an intake valve is open and the throttle body is closed = poss shattered intake manifold.
**TIP - Before turning the ignition key, open the throttle, turn to second position, close throttle then start.
Quote from: "SteveJ"**TIP - Before turning the ignition key, open the throttle, turn to second position, close throttle then start.
aren't you glad I thought to tell you about that s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Mark, sorry can you explain which the VSV solenoid is
Think the reason it went bang was because i had turned the key to start but had to wait for someone, then turned the key fully and BANG. Turned off everything in shock then tried starting again and heard a nastly rattly sound from the engine. Have tried again since and the rattly sound seems to have almost dissappeared but same stalling or no start problem. just dont tell me I've fried the engine s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
trace the boost pipe from the turbo wastegate it ends up at the left hand side of teh engine block about 6 inches further to teh back of the car than the oil cap
it has an in, an out and is a chunky piece of plastic dark tourquoise and red in colour.
It has an electrical plug connections and 2 hoses. one hose connects into teh boost reference pipe and teh other goes to teh hard pipe that runs around teh top edge of teh engine bay.
disconnect it from the boost pipe and plug teh empty hole in teh pipe.
the connection from teh valve can be left open in teh short term
Quote from: "TommyD"Think the reason it went bang was because i had turned the key to start but had to wait for someone, then turned the key fully and BANG. Turned off everything in shock then tried starting again and heard a nastly rattly sound from the engine. Have tried again since and the rattly sound seems to have almost dissappeared but same stalling or no start problem. just dont tell me I've fried the engine s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
if teh bang was too big you could have blown a hole in teh plastic intake manifold, thats exactly what Sean did.
was the bang before teh stalling problem started? or just coincidental?
Purely coincidental. Ah the plastic manifold.....I remember that now.....where can I see that. Isn't that in a bad place?
Quote from: "markiii"if the bang was too big you could have blown a hole in the plastic intake manifold, thats exactly what Sean did.
The bang was indeed big and loud, but it fortunately didn't hole the intake manifold - it blew off one of the small vac feed pipes right at the back of the manifold. Mine wouldn't run at all after that though.
if you want to inspect the manifold the only real option is from below, and even then it's more toucjh than see
fine if you have a pit or a ramp, but bloody awkaward otherwise.
I'm not sure how sean got to his in the end
Quote from: "markiii"6 inches further to the back of the car than the oil cap
Sounds like an awkward one to get to
Quote from: "markiii"if you want to inspect the manifold the only real option is from below, and even then it's more toucjh than see
fine if you have a pit or a ramp, but bloody awkaward otherwise.
I'm not sure how sean got to his in the end
If there is a bit of plastic blown out or rattling around there, I guess it's best not to drive it until i can be sure
If the car won't idle at all now, start with checking the vac connections on the intake manifold - get a torch round the back there and have a good look. If all are present and correct, start from the throttle body and work back along the IC piping looking for split / loose connections. If all still seems OK, then the plastic manifold is probably the issue - there have been a couple shatter in the US. As Mark mentioned, with the car on ramps you can get to enough of it from underneath to feel your way round for any holes.
Quote from: "TommyD"Quote from: "markiii"6 inches further to the back of the car than the oil cap
Sounds like an awkward one to get to
nah really easy
stand at teh back of teh car
look to teh left of the block and 6 inches closer to YOU
Car starts and idles ok at the mo (though this hasn't always been the case), it seems to be when you want to move more that 100m that the spluttering and stalling occurs
Quote from: "markiii"Quote from: "TommyD"Quote from: "markiii"6 inches further to the back of the car than the oil cap
Sounds like an awkward one to get to
nah really easy
stand at the back of the car
look to the left of the block and 6 inches closer to YOU
Sorry mis-read you there thought you meant behind the oil cap
So what does the VSV do?
Quote from: "TommyD"Car starts and idles ok at the mo (though this hasn't always been the case), it seems to be when you want to move more that 100m that the spluttering and stalling occurs
OK, the manifold isn't holed then - it wouldn't idle at all if it was.
Quote from: "TommyD"So what does the VSV do?
It recirculates the petrol fumes from the fuel tank back into the intake (via the charcoal cannister) - this can be left to vent to atmosphere if needs be.
Which is pretty much how turbosteve's car is: The VSV is totally disconnected IIRC.
How would this effect the running then?
It doesn't. Technically, it makes the car run a bit dirtier with regard to emissions, but not so that you'd ever notice (or would fail an MOT). Tbh I never got round to asking Thor exactly why they removed it, but it never did me any harm.
When you say totally disconnected do you mean removed altogether or what Mark is suggesting?
in Dans case disconnected totally
if this solves the issue, we can disconnect it completely if you wish
I'll try it and see. So how would this help the running of the car and put an end to stalling/not starting?
I'm thinking ref the comment that it seems to be more of an issue after you have filled up.
the VSV vents fuel vapour on start up, and there will be diffeerent levels when you fill up teh tank.
likewise although Jay leaves this in place, I wonder if Thor know something we don't? perhaps this solenoid doesn't like living with boost pressure on it's outlet when it wasn't designed that way?
out of teh all teh Hass kits, I reckon yours has done teh most miles in teh UK so it may just teh first to see an issue?
Update: Well I took the injectors out at the weekend and checked them all out, visually - ok, no o-ring probs. I did notice that the fuel rail bolts had worked a little loose, so maybe that was the problem I thought. I took the boost off from the VSV as mark suggested and plugged it. Put it all back together and hey presto ran like a beauty. 2 hours of driving not a hitch. Parked up for the night and went to go for a spin in the morning and nothing, wont start again. Had it been a little smaller the car would have been thrown out the window at this point. So I think I have now ruled out the VSV, pugs and injectors. My next thought is dodgy connection on the emanage or the fuel pump or relay is going. Any ideas as to where the relay is?
bugger was hoping that would fix it
when it won't start does it do anyting?
starter motor?
ignition splutter?
or just dead as a dodo
Ignition splutter, not completely dead
What gets me is that it will start completely fine another time - which leads me to think it is something electrical.
your still running at wastegate pressure?
if so disconnect the emanage and run without it for a week
it will run pig rich but will be safe
see if it still does it
Still running wastegate. I guess it will be best to stay off boost as much as i can s:D :D s:D
Quick update. After the removal of the emanage - not an easy job with the sat-nav positioned over the 2 rear bins. The car started up first time. Idle was smooth (seemed smoother than with the emange). Anyway I only took a short trip to fish/chip shop and under 3500K. Engine seemed smooth and quiet. mmmmm