Hi to All
Just wondering if anyone has successfully fitted an HID conversion for the dipped beam to a 2003 revision MR2?
As the nights are closing in, I feel the need for better lighting. Usually would go for Osram Silverstars as I know they are very good, but as the '2 has projector dipped beams, an HID kit would make sense.
If anyone has done it, what kit did you go for?
Chris
Ummmm...
CLICKY (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13444&highlight=)
I'm also thinking of upgrading my 03 to HID - Dave's deal looks like a good one.
I'd imagine the light setup would be very similar to the celicas and I know for a fact many celica's have been HID'd
Quote from: "red_leicester"Ummmm...
CLICKY (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=13444&highlight=)
I know, I know....
The question was has anybody successfully doent the conversion, my next question being how well did it work lighiting wise. The second thing is they are selling 6000K kits, I wanted 4300K - 4700K, the higher colour temp kits are not as bright.
The kits I have seen are at JBR performance. Dont know how good they are, but marketed as H7 replacement. I assume the prolex kit has a bulb that just plugs straight into the lamp housing? Some kits I understand have wires off the back of the bulb and wont fit the MR2 as it has an adapter for bulb positioning accuracy. With these (and I think the JBR ones are this kind) I would need to make an adapter for each housing, so going for the Prolex opnes (if they will do the lower colour temp bulbs) could be a better option.
Chris
Hi Chris.
I have fitted my 2 with a HID conversion just as you describe. My car is a preface lift so I first changed the old style lights to the new and then converted over to HID. Therefore, my starting point for the wiring will be different to yours as the prefacelift used H4 bulbs.
However, the most difficult part of the whole exercise is to get a sufficiently clean and strong power supply to the HID units to make them ignite, first time every time.
I went for 6000k bulbs and they produce a brilliant blue white very close to the colour of BMW / Audi / Merc standard fittment. The light output is fab and so much clearer and stronger than standard bulbs and HID last much, much longer than say PIAA competition bulbs which do look quite close to HID in colour but not in overall performance.
BUT, and this is a situaution I am currently trying to resolve, under EU regulations which are covered in our "MOT" test, cars fitted with HID headlamps must also have headlamp washers and have automatic headlamp leveling - neither of which the MR2 has. Bewarned, while a "friendly" garage or dealer may turn a blind eye (or may not even spot the problem) the police will know and so will your insurance company!!
Chris, if you still want to go ahead, please pm me and I can give you some more guidance if you want. - David.
Quote from: "davidhowson"Hi Chris.
I have fitted my 2 with a HID conversion just as you describe. My car is a preface lift so I first changed the old style lights to the new and then converted over to HID. Therefore, my starting point for the wiring will be different to yours as the prefacelift used H4 bulbs.
However, the most difficult part of the whole exercise is to get a sufficiently clean and strong power supply to the HID units to make them ignite, first time every time.
I went for 6000k bulbs and they produce a brilliant blue white very close to the colour of BMW / Audi / Merc standard fittment. The light output is fab and so much clearer and stronger than standard bulbs and HID last much, much longer than say PIAA competition bulbs which do look quite close to HID in colour but not in overall performance.
BUT, and this is a situaution I am currently trying to resolve, under EU regulations which are covered in our "MOT" test, cars fitted with HID headlamps must also have headlamp washers and have automatic headlamp leveling - neither of which the MR2 has. Bewarned, while a "friendly" garage or dealer may turn a blind eye (or may not even spot the problem) the police will know and so will your insurance company!!
Chris, if you still want to go ahead, please pm me and I can give you some more guidance if you want. - David.
Hi David
Thanks for the information. I am guessing that the ingniter units are sensitieve to electrical noise and need a big start current? I would just reject a setup that did not work from the normal power circuits of the car as being unsuitable for use under the sale of goods act. Out of curiosity, which kit did you get?
Are the H7 replacement HID bulbs directly compatible with the MR2 headlight shell and bulb mounting or did you need to do some fudging?
Lastly, HID lamps must be accompanied by washers and levelling device for type approval. If one choses to modify the vehicle it no longer qualifies for type approval, however, it should not fail an MOT. The MOT merely checks headlights for correct colour and aim as far as I know. Could be a tricky area.
A car with no load area and projector lamps should be an ideal candidate for the HID conversion as it is not subject to weight in the boot messing with the headlight alignment.
May just give up and go for Osram Silverstars instead, but do want to check out the possibilities.
Chris
Chris
The ignition of the HID units is a very occasional problem and may be more problematic to my set up as I had to convert from pre face lift wiring to start with. I only use the existing lighting circuits to fire a signal to a set of relays which then in turn provide the main power to the lights. HID need a big initial current to light them up but then only a normal current to run them. That said, I am not aware of any fuse blowing problems either, so that kind of counters that argument a bit!
I bought a kit from HID-lights.com who are based in the states, good value but remember to add import duty! But still, at nearly 2 dollars to the pound....and the bulbs are a direct replacement for the standard ones.
The wash / auto level is an odd one. You're right that MOT should only check the aim and illumination, but someone may use it as a reason for a fail, probably the insurers would be more interested as a non standard item? I agree and can testify that the auto level is not a problem as the suspension just doesn't move that much! Plus any load is in the front, too.
The change over is really worth it for the extra visability if you can get to grips with the wires! Best of luck - David.
Right -so you wire the relays into the existing light circuit - this provides the switch on signal as such.
You also presumably wire the relays directly into a +ve feed to provide the power to the Bulbs. Was this feed taken from a nearby loom or did you have to wire it directly from the battery.
Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick - I only have a basic understanding of car electrics.
The power feed was taken from the loom off the fuse box at the front. A better idea would be to run an independent feed from the battery, but I have never found the time to do it! After all I have said, I have very little trouble with the bulbs igniting, it is just very occaisionally the left hand lamp fails to light first time, but switch off and back on and it always works. When I contacted the supplier they told me that the power feed needs to be 100% or this "fault" may happen.
The old wires in the car just provide the signal to the relays so there is no additional stress on the existing wires or switches.
- David.
Thanks David - very useful info s:D :D s:D
Well I just got photos through of the HID kit bulbs that I am considering and they seem to have a carrier supplied that looks remarkably similar to the MR2 standard carrier.
David, regarding the igniter issues, you may have a marginal relay suffering a little contact bounce or resistance. May be worth swapping relays L to R (if it is a twin relay setup) or replacing relay. If the issue is circuit noise, a filter may be in order. I have seen these for sale on a coule of HID kit suppliers websites at around £30. Google the suppliers and you should find one.
Looks like I am going for a Bi - Xenon setup. I know that the mains are going to be subject to more switch ons, thus bulb life will be reduced, but then mains are on much less than dipped anyway, so should work out reasonably well. The supplier reckons that the kits have instant switch on and that he has quite a few customers using them as main beams with no problems.
Chris
Great to hear, Chris! My only other advice is to buy the kits with the combined ballast & starter rather than the older kits which have two separate units. And don't be tempted to go for more than 6000k colour or you seriously affect the light output. The bi-xenon is a brave move, but I'm sure it will be fine. Which supplier are you thinking of using?
So it's not necessary to run an independent power source from battery to the HIDs? Any chance of messing up your electrical system and frying wires if you don't?
The HID's do need a separate 12volt supply in my opinion, as I would hesitate to put that load down the original wire, although the HID kits often say to simpy plug and play the new bulb / ballast arrangement into the existing connections.
I have used the existing wires to provide a signal to a relay that clicks in to power the HID units, and I have put a relay on each side, but then as I said in my post earlier, I have converted from a preface lift H4 arrangement so the wiring loom is different too.
- David
Quote from: "davidhowson"The HID's do need a separate 12volt supply in my opinion, as I would hesitate to put that load down the original wire, although the HID kits often say to simpy plug and play the new bulb / ballast arrangement into the existing connections.
I have used the existing wires to provide a signal to a relay that clicks in to power the HID units, and I have put a relay on each side, but then as I said in my post earlier, I have converted from a preface lift H4 arrangement so the wiring loom is different too.
- David
So it's just a matter of running a single wire, probably under the car, from the lights to the battery? Sounds like an extra 5-10 minutes of work that will save you from possible headaches down the road.
Yes, is the short answer! It would need to be something like 30 or 45 amp rated and take the shortest run possible to avaoid voltage drop.
Quote from: "davidhowson"The HID's do need a separate 12volt supply in my opinion, as I would hesitate to put that load down the original wire, although the HID kits often say to simpy plug and play the new bulb / ballast arrangement into the existing connections.
I have used the existing wires to provide a signal to a relay that clicks in to power the HID units, and I have put a relay on each side, but then as I said in my post earlier, I have converted from a preface lift H4 arrangement so the wiring loom is different too.
- David
Hi David
While I can sort of understand what you have done, assuming the original wiring was configured main or dipped, not simultaneous, I wondered why you have doubled up on relays, ie l/r pairing rather than one big relay for both sides? Where did you get the 45A rating figure from?
As for current load, the HIDs may draw a bit more on startup, but if they work with the original fuses in, they should be fine wired from the existing headlight supply. When running, these systems draw less current than the standard bulbs, so cant see the problem. Halogens have a pretty high start current demand until the filament warms up (only a few hundreths of a second) but the thing that really heats wiring up is continuous high current. Also, arcing may present problems on startup, but a capacitor across the relay reduces this by holding the voltage drop near zero for a few milliseconds while the contact move apart.
Chris
Quote from: "davidhowson"Great to hear, Chris! My only other advice is to buy the kits with the combined ballast & starter rather than the older kits which have two separate units. And don't be tempted to go for more than 6000k colour or you seriously affect the light output. The bi-xenon is a brave move, but I'm sure it will be fine. Which supplier are you thinking of using?
Hi David
The kits are combined ballast and starter type. As for bulb colour, I am trying to decide between 4300K and 6000K. 4300K gives higher light output, but 6000K gives more natural colour. Question is, do I go for slightly less light with better colour rendition or more light with slightly less good colour rendition. I am leaning on the side of the 6000K bulbs as the advantage of a better colour rendition to the headlight illuminated areas would quite possibly outweigh any advantage a few extra lumens will give.
Supplier is xenon lights direct. These have been recommended by someone on another forum.
Chris
I'd personally go for the more natural colour. For me this is the major advantage of HID over halogen.
I wouldn't go above 8k though as these are getting too blue.I've seen 12k kits for sale - these really look daft - almost purple.
Chris - The only reason I had to put in more relays was because the polarity on the nearside headlamp dip beam switches over between high and dip....somethine I cannot get my mind around! As the ballast / starter unit is polarity sensitive this is why I had to do this. Another strange querk is that the offside bulb only works when there is a bulb present and plugged in on in the nearside headlamp! Work that one out. Toyota must have made some major changes to the wiring loom for the 2003+ models so in your case, the wiring should be a lot easier.
The only reason behind the over-rated 12 volt feed, is to minimise the voltage drop from the back to the front of the car, if the battery had been the in front, it would not have been such an issue.
Colour wise, I would go for the 6000k as you loose very little in light output, but gain a lot in terms of appearance. - David
Typically how long do the bulbs and ballasts last on these HID kits?
Quote from: "mkawada"Typically how long do the bulbs and ballasts last on these HID kits?
Absolutely no idea. Kit comes with 12 month warranty.
Working out startup current in a standard setup when you switch them (the standard 55w H7 halogen OE bulbs) on they draw a spike of 60A ber bulb at 12V s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Obviously this is only a momentary draw as the filament temperature rises they settle down to a steady 4.6A. The HID kits typically draw 3.5A and peak at 10A max, so I am not too worried about needing uprated wiring. Most ballast units accept down to 9V as well. Will try and wire off standard loom first and see how it goes.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"As for bulb colour, I am trying to decide between 4300K and 6000K.
Chris, in case this helps in any way here's a shot of the retro fit 6300K HIDS I have on my e36 328:
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/896574/xenon1.jpg)
Taken before I fitted the shroud over the stock reflector s:oops: :oops: s:oops: but it gives you an idea of the colour & quality of the light.
The e36 guys pretty much all have equipment made by the same company but unfortunately they don't do fitments for the 2. I take it that Prolex are the only company that do?
Well the kits finally arrived. Problem 1 is that they have not got the correct adaptor at the base of the bulb, so I need to modify a set of te existing black plastic adaptors / connectors if I am to fit the kit.
I am sitll undecided wether to keep the kits or send them back as I had photos from the supplier showing a kit type that had the correct adaptor. I guess his supplier changed the spec. The kits are labled HID Cool. Anyone had experience of these?
Does anybody know where I can get the dipped beam plug / spacer seperately? My local Mr T reckons they come with the headlight shell and are not available seperately.
Chris
How do you know what cars need the bulb base adapter? Why in the world are there two different H7 bulb bases?! s:? :? s:?
Can any facelift Spyder owners confirm which brand kits they have that required no base modify? s:?: :?: s:?:
Quote from: "mkawada"How do you know what cars need the bulb base adapter? Why in the world are there two different H7 bulb bases?! s:? :? s:?
Can any facelift Spyder owners confirm which brand kits they have that required no base modify? s:?: :?: s:?:
Hi
There is only one bulb base for H7. The adapter is a fitting that the bulb plugs into to help locate it in the headlamp shell. I think some VAG cars use the same sort of arrangement.
It would appear that some HID kits have the adapter already inclided and others dont. IT would also appear that suppliers are a bit variable so some kits have and soe not from the same manufacturer. Headahche for me at the mo.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Hi
There is only one bulb base for H7. The adapter is a fitting that the bulb plugs into to help locate it in the headlamp shell. I think some VAG cars use the same sort of arrangement.
It would appear that some HID kits have the adapter already inclided and others dont. IT would also appear that suppliers are a bit variable so some kits have and soe not from the same manufacturer. Headahche for me at the mo.
Chris
Is the adapter part of the base, or separate?
Is the adapter necessary, or just to help to "better" position the bulb? What a pain.
Quote from: "mkawada"Quote from: "ChrisGB"Hi
There is only one bulb base for H7. The adapter is a fitting that the bulb plugs into to help locate it in the headlamp shell. I think some VAG cars use the same sort of arrangement.
It would appear that some HID kits have the adapter already inclided and others dont. IT would also appear that suppliers are a bit variable so some kits have and soe not from the same manufacturer. Headahche for me at the mo.
Chris
Is the adapter part of the base, or separate?
Is the adapter necessary, or just to help to "better" position the bulb? What a pain.
In my experience of aftermarket HID kits then yes, this adapter would be required.
If for no other reason than to secure the bulb and eliminate the intensely annoying flicker given off by bulbs that aren't located firmly in the headlamp. Even the vibration of a car at tick over is enough to shake the bulb and distort the light produced, a case of a tiny amount of movement being amplified a thousand times unfortunately.
Thanks. I've been browsing eBay for HID kits for a while. There does seem to be a difference in the pictures for some kits. Some H7 bulbs have an extra piece (looks like it can slide up and down the wires) at the base.
How unfortunate that we Spyder owners can't simply install the "universal fit" kits because of this issue.
Quote from: "mkawada"Thanks. I've been browsing eBay for HID kits for a while. There does seem to be a difference in the pictures for some kits. Some H7 bulbs have an extra piece (looks like it can slide up and down the wires) at the base.
How unfortunate that we Spyder owners can't simply install the "universal fit" kits because of this issue.
There are some kits that do have the adapter (it is seperate to the normal H7 bulb and is part of the headlamp assembly) and some kits that do not. The Ebay supplier I bought from photographed a bulb for me which had the adapter, but when he actually supplied, the kit did not have it. I assume his supplier changed what was in the box on the new batch he bought. (box is branded HID Cool).
I was going to adapt, but as the supplier has sent me goods not as advised, (and the wrong colour temp too) I am probably going for a refund.
Chris
This may be of interest to anyone with a post facelift who wants to upgrade to HID
HID kit GB over on spyderchat. It seems quite a few people have fitted these to their cars in a plug and play fashion with no need for major surgery.
http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36287&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
They look OK, but (and this is a big BUT) they are old kits with separate starters and ballast units, although the starter is decribed as a safety relay??. This is where I started and found the starters were trouble and prone to failure.
My recommendation would be to go for the newer and much neater combined starter & ballast.
The price isn't that good either at $195. Shop around and you can find better kits.
David
Just thought it might be of interest as it is known to fit our car unlike most other kits due to the mounting plate/bracket/thing problem
BTW Chris, is this the kit you have got:
The SuperVision II 6000K HID Kit for $199
http://www.hid-lights.com/
Since my last post, I purchased the PILOT 4300 H7 kit off eBay for my 2003. Total cost was US $195 with the special H7 base (which you MUST specify). However, even with the special base, it required slight modification to properly fit. Without the special base, you'd have to completely fabricate your own base though.
The kit consists of an integrated starter/ballast. No relay. It plugs directly into the OEM connectors.
The HIDs have not given me any problems *knock on wood*. I always start the car and THEN turn on the lights a few moments later--someone said if you turn them on before starting the car the ballast will make a horrible noise. Anyway, it takes maybe 30 seconds to fully illuminate (from blue to white). There is NO blue whatsoever once warmed up (these are 4300, not 6000).
The light appears significantly brighter on the rear bumpers of the cars in front. If you stand directly in front of the car the reflection of the light off the lower part of the headlight is almost blinding. This is probably the light that illuminates signs directly above and in front. I am fairly sure it doesn't blind oncoming passengers!!
One problem: My right-side (US passenger-side) headlight had a broken tab (now fixed with Plast-Aid) so the beam pattern is a little off. A slight adjustment should take care of that.
Quote from: "mkawada"However, even with the special base, it required slight modification to properly fit.
Do you have an ebay link and what do you mean by slight modification - just a little shaving of plastic or minor surgery?
m http://stores.ebay.com/pipi-stuff168 (http://stores.ebay.com/pipi-stuff168) m
The seller informed me that the bulbs are Japanese and the ballasts/starters are Chinese. Seller's communication is extremely quick!
Regarding the slight modification: it was very minor (requires a blade/scissors). The parts that made the kit water-resistant had to be removed so it could properly fit into the housing. Takes a couple minutes to modify it.
Bummmmpfff
where did you guys get your supply from on the front of the car??
i only want to try them ensure it works
Spoke to a mate who does this full time and he was saying parts for 2 H4 setups are about £250, seems an expensive mod to me. Bulbs have a good life span seems power packs can be more of a problem.
normanh
I was not able to source a direct fit kit and also found out quite a few potential pitfalls of aftermarket HID kits. As a result, I ended up fitting Philips Xtreme bulbs in the H7 dipped beam units. These made a significant improvement in light output. For mains I fitted toshiba HIR 9011 bulbs. These needed slight modification to fit, but the light output is amazing. Way brighter than 130W bulbs I have used in other cars, but standard current draw.
Upgraded lighting with no hassle s8) 8) s8)
This is a thread for the past!
I have been running with my HID kit for best part of three years with not a single problem. It took an age to fit and I remember having to do something with the base of the bulb to make it fit properly but as to what I did, I can't recall and I'm not prepared to go looking in case I foul up the settings!! Sorry.
I friend of mine has just bought a set of the slim-line ballast HID's of ebay for his C70 Volvo and he paid £70 for them; I have to say that it is a fantasitc kit and works very well on his super fussy Volvo. I will ask which seller he got them from.
-David-