Hi folks,
I need/want more power!!! s:( :( s:(
The 2's great but needs more power.
Around September 2007 i will be in a better finacial position so i will be looking to purchase a Turbo set-up.
Anyone thinking of selling one around that time???
Secondly i'm told the best value for money set-up is the "C2" as it includes intercooler and ECU. Is that right? Any Idea on typical BHP??
Prob get corrected again for something on this thread s:? :? s:?
Cheers
Jamie
best bet is start the conversation from scratch
how much power do you think you need?
Is power or response more imprtant to you?
Are you a warranty or a hands on tinkerer type?
budget?
then we can start from there
Hi Mark. Thanks for replying.
No warranty to worry about.
Not absolutley sure on the power, around the 250 BHP mark, although i appreciate this may well not be needed due to power/weight ratio?
I am reasonable with the spanners, and would enjoy taking part, but i'm not as good as some,going by some of the threads i've read on turbo instalation! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Would like better response and power, turbo lag used to irrate me on the Impreza's,but anti lag was not an option.
Available finances, Without wishing to be screamed at on this site,If i could get hold of one, is around £2500 unrealistic for a fitted secondhand turbo setup?
budget is possible, but it depends really on what is included in the 2nd hand kit, and what you may choose to add.
I'm fitting one for a member (I'll let him shout if he wants to) in teh next couple of months and the basic kit and fitting was looking at £2200, I reckon he's spent another £500 on the little bits though that make life easier, the stuff we have learnt the hardway can be improved on from teh factory.
so just to clarify, by warranty I was talking about the kit. TTE is great because if there is an issue you always have backup covered in teh price.
however thats is £1500 over your budget
everything else going to require some basic fettling on your part, obviously we are all here to provide help, but please don't make teh mistake of thiking that any of teh other options is fit and forget.
both Ekona and Tommy_D started from those expectations and both have since got rid.
PE won't make 250bhp, but still may well be fast enough, Hass or C2 will but at teh expense of a little more lag.
next job I think is to get you out in both and see which suits you better.
Make sure you browse SC too, there seems to be a turbokit for sale every now and then. s8) 8) s8)
Cheers Mark, It's a possibility then! s:D :D s:D
What would the Hass or C2 kit produce in terms of BHP?
How do i go about a test/passenger drive?
I did a search on Autotrader to try and find a Garage with a Turbo'd MR2 to test drive but came up with nothing.
Any Turbo 2's near the Stratford On Avon area want to "take me out" s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:D :D s:D
Here's few of the latest to give you an idea of pricing:
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=42093 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=42093) m
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40481 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40481) m
Best bet for a chance to discuss and experience the options is to come along to a drive-out. Plenty to choose from in the Events forum. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
I've always thought that the power figure is a little moot in comparison to the torque curve for your daily driving, but Hass and C2 will reach the numbers you're looking at with a bit of boost control to 10psi and the 1-zz can routinely handle 12psi. Hass seems to have a higher peak torque.
But i didn't pop in to say any of this ... I wanted to add that going FI to these levels will show up some issues in chassis/suspension and handling that you really should consider budgetting for aswell. Oh, and insurance of course!
Quote from: "jam1e"Cheers Mark, It's a possibility then! s:D :D s:D
What would the Hass or C2 kit produce in terms of BHP?
How do i go about a test/passenger drive?
I did a search on Autotrader to try and find a Garage with a Turbo'd MR2 to test drive but came up with nothing.
Any Turbo 2's near the Stratford On Avon area want to "take me out" s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:D :D s:D
highest I know of in teh Uk is Philsters C2 and My Hass with 274bhp and 267bhp respectively
I'm sure 300bhp is acheivable with enough boost, but trust me there isn't a road useable enough to need that.
250bhp is plenty with this amount of weight.
There will be a Hass, a C2, and a PE at this weekend Essex meet, so if you fancy a good run out, that might be your perfect chance to blag a few rides
Cheers Tem!
I've tried to register on Spyderchat but can't for some reason??
Cheers
Jamie
Quote from: "markiii"everything else going to require some basic fettling on your part, obviously we are all here to provide help, but please don't make the mistake of thiking that any of the other options is fit and forget.
both Ekona and Tommy_D started from those expectations and both have since got rid.
That's more important than anything else. You can always find more money, you can always get more power, but if you're not prepared to have to check and play with things every weekend then forget it. I spent a good few thousand pound more than I'd like to admit to get mine all sorted, and even then I still wasn't happy with it. I had expectations of a turbo'd MR2 that were just stupidly unrealistic, and in the end it ruined the car for me and I got rid of it.
Please don't make the same mistake I did. The power is great, but if you're not happy with fiddling and checking things all the time then just save up and go for the TTE kit. If I had I'd still have a '2 now.
Sorry if that comes across as a bit preachy, for all I know you could be the kind of person that loves doing stuff like this, but it's such an important part of owning an mk3 tubby that I really feel it's worth taking note of.
Quote from: "jam1e"I've tried to register on Spyderchat but can't for some reason??
What does it do then? Or doesn't do? I can ask the admin(s), if you describe it more. s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Ekona"Sorry if that comes across as a bit preachy, for all I know you could be the kind of person that loves doing stuff like this, but it's such an important part of owning an mk3 tubby that I really feel it's worth taking note of.
It's a good and valid point, especially if one wishes to target some 250hp. s8) 8) s8)
Thanks folks i'll have a look at the events link.
Good point Spit forgot about the handling side of things. Will prob have lowering TTE springs by September anyhow, but would i need extra bracing or brake upgrade? Trying to keep the cost down but don't want it to be a jelly on wheels with a turbo s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "jam1e"Any Turbo 2's near the Stratford On Avon area want to "take me out" s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:D :D s:D
You have PM
You don't need these things as such, but you'll probably want them!
I'd say, on a facelift, your priorities will be a good set of boots and some beefed up chassis bracing. Brakes are good on the stock '2, but only if they're working well! Thats something you'll have to decide on.
Oh, and we've all forgotten about the uprated clutch that you'll need to budget for!
Quote from: "spit"Oh, and we've all forgotten about the uprated clutch that you'll need to budget for!
If he ends up with the PE kit, I think he can live with the stock clutch too...(?)
put it this way, I drove spits last year with no bracing adn tired suspension, and coming from mine it felt very scary
since your si an 04 an will have TTE springs and non tired shock, you should be ok
not that it can't improved.
Quote from: "SteveJ"Quote from: "jam1e"Any Turbo 2's near the Stratford On Avon area want to "take me out" s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:D :D s:D
You have PM
Stevej has kindly offered to take me out tonight in his 2 to get an idea of what is needed and how the car performs.
Cheers
Jamie.
Personally for me i'd at least go for;
Breast plate or equivalent from Corky
TTE or Tein springs
Braided brake lines and dot5.1 brake fluid
Exedy organic clutch (an absolute must with a turbo)
Kirks engine mounts (another absolute must with a turbo)
Oh - wait a minute, that IS exactly what i have already done s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
It all adds to the price and i seem to remember one of our US friends saying recently is that it's not a cheap option fitting a turbo!
Cheers Enkona and Tem, some good points, Have to admit i gave up the Impreza game due to having to make to much of a committment to the maintenance side of things. Prob more to do with the continual expenditure than the time to be fair.
Rather pay and play if there is such a solution.
Bear with me Tem, i did email admin at Spyderchat but never got a reply. I'll try and log in again and let you know what it says...
Quote from: "jam1e"....Will probably have lowering TTE springs by September anyhow....
To be honest I much prefer the ride and handling on a standard car. I can't wait to bin my TTE springs - reminds me of a cheap GMax setup I used to have years back. Wonder if the dampers should be changed s:? :? s:?
unless we have very different tastes I suspect your shocks are fubared
Quote from: "Matt"Quote from: "jam1e"....Will probably have lowering TTE springs by September anyhow....
To be honest I much prefer the ride and handling on a standard car. I can't wait to bin my TTE springs - reminds me of a cheap GMax setup I used to have years back. Wonder if the dampers should be changed s:? :? s:?
How old are your TTE springs?
Are they for sale, presuming they are any good?
s:D :D s:D
Here's a spreadsheet I made up a little while ago - might make you think about the odd extra bit you'll need, and it also highlights the cost difference between going all-out and going for a kit:
m http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... d1T2KXdPTg (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pfc43EFcuGguId1T2KXdPTg) m
Quote from: "jam1e"Rather pay and play if there is such a solution.
If you really mean that then forget your £2500 budget and go TTE Turbo.. it's as close as you're ever going to get to fit & forget..
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "jam1e"Rather pay and play if there is such a solution.
If you really mean that then forget your £2500 budget and go TTE Turbo.. it's as close as you're ever going to get to fit & forget..
Or I guess sell up and buy an off the shelf TTE 2nd hand.
This is all sounding very familiar!! s:( :( s:(
Exedy organic clutches again. AAAAHH!! s:) :) s:)
Joke aside i know it's going to be expensive. If Mark thinks the clutch should be ok and presuming the clutch does not have to be part of the dismantling time i may stick to the OE clutch for now and replace when/if the OE wears out.
I don't know much about the bracing side of things so i'll have a read on the forums.
Forgot to mention the car has only done 35k so presume the clutch should be quite good, albeit, a little weak for a turbo.
As for Spyderchat, cheers Tem, but i've now managed to register.
Jamie
Excellent and informative thread.
Jam1e, are you also considering 2zz conversion options, or have you ruled that out?
now that we have swapped a coupel of gearboxes, I realise teh clutch is no big deal at all
all of teh work is dropping teh box. So yes keep the clutch till it dies
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"Excellent and informative thread.
Jam1e, are you also considering 2zz conversion options, or have you ruled that out?
Hi Ernie,
I have had a think about the 2zz and read up abit on hear, but again i don't have to much knowledge of the conversion. In principle, imho, if i sell my engine and buy the 190 bhp model there should be little in the way of costs other than the engine swap.
I thought it was just a straight swap of the "Lumps" and maybe the ECU, but it would appear not so straight forward?
Correct me if i'm wrong?
Jamie
I will have a complete PE setup for sale at about that time.
As a basic, it will comprise PE turbo, downpipe, Top Secret decat pipe, all pipework, chargecooler, pump + rad + all plumbing and fully mapped (by Thor racing) Apexi Power Fc ecu and Blitz 525cc injectors.
Ther will also be a 1ZZ engine and 6 speed gearbox up for grabs with just over 18k from new on them.
Quote from: "markiii"now that we have swapped a coupel of gearboxes, I realise the clutch is no big deal at all
all of the work is dropping the box. So yes keep the clutch till it dies
Cheers Mark! Abit less to worry about in the first instance!! s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "loadswine"I will have a complete PE setup for sale at about that time.
As a basic, it will comprise PE turbo, downpipe, Top Secret decat pipe, all pipework, chargecooler, pump + rad + all plumbing and fully mapped (by Thor racing) Apexi Power Fc ecu and Blitz 525cc injectors.
Ther will also be a 1ZZ engine and 6 speed gearbox up for grabs with just over 18k from new on them.
Sounds good Nigel, excuse my ignorance, is a charge cooler the same as an intercooler? s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Secondly, what BHP was the kit producing on your MR2?
Thirdly, can you send me a PM to give me an idea of what you want for the kit?
Jamie
Quote from: "markiii"unless we have very different tastes I suspect your shocks are fubared
Hmmm. I know the front shocks were replaced under warrenty a year or so back for some reason. Perhaps the rears need changing now! I'll get someone knowledgeable to have a look at the Essex meet tomorrow.
Not sure how old the TTE springs are.... I have a folder full of receipts so I can dig those out.
Quote from: "jam1e"Sounds good Nigel, excuse my ignorance, is a charge cooler the same as an intercooler? s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
it is, a standard setup normally uses an air to air radiator to cool the compressed turbo air before it goes into the engine, a chargecooler uses water to cool the air (air to water) before circulating the water back to a radiator at the front of the car where its cooled
Quote from: "jam1e"Quote from: "loadswine"I will have a complete PE setup for sale at about that time.
As a basic, it will comprise PE turbo, downpipe, Top Secret decat pipe, all pipework, chargecooler, pump + rad + all plumbing and fully mapped (by Thor racing) Apexi Power Fc ecu and Blitz 525cc injectors.
Ther will also be a 1ZZ engine and 6 speed gearbox up for grabs with just over 18k from new on them.
Sounds good Nigel, excuse my ignorance, is a charge cooler the same as an intercooler? s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Secondly, what BHP was the kit producing on your MR2?
Thirdly, can you send me a PM to give me an idea of what you want for the kit?
Jamie
could spend a weekend swapping it wholesale from one to teh other then :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "jam1e"Correct me if i'm wrong?
I'd be the last guy to be in a position to correct anyone on anything engine related. s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I'm learning from the real masters around here...
The appeal of the 2zz option for me (not that I'll be doing it any time soon) is precisely that it avoids what Dan was talking about: the endless fiddling and tweaking. Some guys like that sort of thing and I probably would if I had a garage. But for plug and play options, it's even better than the TTE, tho without the warranty protection.
Rogue do the swap for £1,400, if you provide the engine and ancillary bits. Could come out close to your target price...
Myself, I'm secretly hoping my engine explodes so I have to do the swap. s:) :) s:)
(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/turbo-plumbing.gif)
hope this helps you visualize things
Quote from: "kanujunkie"Quote from: "jam1e"Sounds good Nigel, excuse my ignorance, is a charge cooler the same as an intercooler? s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
it is, a standard setup normally uses an air to air radiator to cool the compressed turbo air before it goes into the engine, a chargecooler uses water to cool the air (air to water) before circulating the water back to a radiator at the front of the car where its cooled
Just had a chat on the phone with Stevej, i'm with you now!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "kanujunkie"(http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/turbo-plumbing.gif)
hope this helps you visualize things
Cheers Stu! s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "markiii"Quote from: "jam1e"Quote from: "loadswine"I will have a complete PE setup for sale at about that time.
As a basic, it will comprise PE turbo, downpipe, Top Secret decat pipe, all pipework, chargecooler, pump + rad + all plumbing and fully mapped (by Thor racing) Apexi Power Fc ecu and Blitz 525cc injectors.
Ther will also be a 1ZZ engine and 6 speed gearbox up for grabs with just over 18k from new on them.
Sounds good Nigel, excuse my ignorance, is a charge cooler the same as an intercooler? s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Secondly, what BHP was the kit producing on your MR2?
Thirdly, can you send me a PM to give me an idea of what you want for the kit?
Jamie
could spend a weekend swapping it wholesale from one to the other then :-) :-) :-)
Sounds Good to me!!! s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "Ernie Ball"Quote from: "jam1e"Correct me if i'm wrong?
I'd be the last guy to be in a position to correct anyone on anything engine related. s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I'm learning from the real masters around here...
The appeal of the 2zz option for me (not that I'll be doing it any time soon) is precisely that it avoids what Dan was talking about: the endless fiddling and tweaking. Some guys like that sort of thing and I probably would if I had a garage. But for plug and play options, it's even better than the TTE, though without the warranty protection.
Rogue do the swap for £1,400, if you provide the engine and ancillary bits. Could come out close to your target price...
Myself, I'm secretly hoping my engine explodes so I have to do the swap. s:) :) s:)
Crikey that sounds alot of dosh for a swap!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Am i right in presuming the engines (140bhp and the 190bhp) are a straight swap along with the ECU, i.e no fiddling with wiring and the like?? s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "jam1e"Quote from: "Ernie Ball"Quote from: "jam1e"Correct me if i'm wrong?
I'd be the last guy to be in a position to correct anyone on anything engine related. s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I'm learning from the real masters around here...
The appeal of the 2zz option for me (not that I'll be doing it any time soon) is precisely that it avoids what Dan was talking about: the endless fiddling and tweaking. Some guys like that sort of thing and I probably would if I had a garage. But for plug and play options, it's even better than the TTE, though without the warranty protection.
Rogue do the swap for £1,400, if you provide the engine and ancillary bits. Could come out close to your target price...
Myself, I'm secretly hoping my engine explodes so I have to do the swap. s:) :) s:)
Crikey that sounds alot of dosh for a swap!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Am i right in presuming the engines (140bhp and the 190bhp) are a straight swap along with the ECU, i.e no fiddling with wiring and the like?? s:? :? s:?
simple, but no not that simple
lets keep that for another thread though
Quote from: "aaronjb"Here's a spreadsheet I made up a little while ago - might make you think about the odd extra bit you'll need, and it also highlights the cost difference between going all-out and going for a kit:
m http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... d1T2KXdPTg (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pfc43EFcuGguId1T2KXdPTg) m
Cheers Aaron s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Bear in mind that those costs are quite particular to my individual goals s;) ;) s;)
For example you can drop the cost of the high flow CAT off if you get a kit which includes one, heck if you run the PE kit as it comes you can drop the cost of injectors, CAT, intercooler, engine management, clutch.. you just bolt it on - won't get you to 250bhp like that, though s:) :) s:)
PE won't get you to 250bhp anyway
but I doubt 90% of people would be happy, Nigels above is certainly thebest of teh PE breed
Quote from: "markiii"PE won't get you to 250bhp anyway
but I doubt 90% of people would be happy, Nigels above is certainly thebest of the PE breed
Well, you could easily swap up to a bigger PE turbo s;) ;) s;) But yeah, good point.
And I think you meant "I don't doubt that 90%..." s;) ;) s;)
I did yes
Had a few PM's with Nigel.
The PE kit sounds what i'm looking for.
Think i would be happy with around 200 bhp if i didn't need to keep lifting the "bonnet" every few days.
I've arranged to meet Stevej this evening so will have more of an idea wot 200+ bhp feels like.
If i were to buy Nigels kit, does anybody have an idea how much i would be looking at to have it installed?
Cheers
Jamie.
Quote from: "jam1e"If i were to buy Nigels kit, does anybody have an idea how much i would be looking at to have it installed?
really depends on where you get it fitted, DIY can be the cheapest option with mostly your time and efforts or theres option 2 where you can agree a price with a club member to do it for you. Option 3 is take it to somewhere like Rogue motorsport but i have to say yor going to pay a lot for that option, probably about £1500 and then you wont have much in the way of an idea of how to fix it if it were to go wrong
Quote from: "markiii"There will be a Hass, a C2, and a PE at this weekend Essex meet, so if you fancy a good run out, that might be your perfect chance to blag a few rides
And a couple of us lowly TTET's! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Had a few PM's and more than likely have sorted the installation side of things, all being well.
Hello Liz s:) :) s:)
Talking of the Essex Meet. I can't find it on the events page??
Infact it looks like the Events page could do with abit of a dusting off s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Spelling s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Quote from: "jam1e"I may stick to the OE clutch for now and replace when/if the OE wears out.
Forgot to mention the car has only done 35k so presume the clutch should be quite good, albeit, a little weak for a turbo.
Thats exactly what I thought and I've only got half that mileage. 3 weeks after C2 install the clutch aint too impressed with anything over 4psi.
Quote from: "jam1e"Had a few PM's and more than likely have sorted the installation side of things, all being well.
Hello Liz s:) :) s:)
Talking of the Essex Meet. I can't find it on the events page??
Infact it looks like the Events page could do with abit of a dusting off s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Spelling s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Events list is a bit out of date
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... highlight= (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16202&highlight=) m
Quote from: "jam1e"Talking of the Essex Meet. I can't find it on the events page??
Infact it looks like the Events page could do with abit of a dusting off s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16202 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16202) m
Cheers folks, thought the days of buying clutches all the time had gone!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Can't be any worse than fitting one to an Impreza though!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Pants!
Off topic for a second, the Essex meet is 150+ miles away!! s:( :( s:(
Quote from: "jam1e"Pants! Off topic for a second, the Essex meet is 150+ miles away!! s:( :( s:(
Proves how keen you are in your prospective upgrade!! Might make our more experienced members consider their time spent was worth it. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Jaime, if i can do a 570 mile round trip to pick up a hardtop, i dont think 300 miles, when you are contemplating such a major puurchase, is excessive to give you tons of info.
Just think a chance to go out in a C2, Hass, PE and TTE - these opportunities don't come up often!! And we don't bite either!
thats about a 2 hour drive,
nothing major, stu drove all the way tup norf from surrey to join a northern meet just for a laugh, shows how much fun the mk3 tubby is,
that thing flies as do the other turbos.
there is quiete a range of turbos at the weekend, if not the whole caboudle.
as for turbos in general, i have been out in a couple and they are all fantastic, and IMHO anything over 240-260 bhp is wasted power as the car struggles to put it down. but its horses for courses, marks is a hi BHP turbo, and it is fantastic and if i could own it i would,
but deep down i think the ideal BHP figure for the 2 would be between 220-240 BHP, the car is so light and handles so well at that BHP you wqould have a good balance of power and handling. just depends on what turbo you pick for the job.
Quote from: "Liz"Just think a chance to go out in a C2, Hass, PE and TTE - these opportunities don't come up often!! And we don't bite either!
If Liz isn't going to bite me i def won't come!! s:P :P s:P
I make sure that I give my teeth a good brush when I get them out of the glass in the morning then!
Quote from: "rtbiscuit"thats about a 2 hour drive,
nothing major, stu drove all the way tup norf from surrey to join a northern meet just for a laugh, shows how much fun the mk3 tubby is,
that thing flies as do the other turbos.
there is quiete a range of turbos at the weekend, if not the whole caboudle.
as for turbos in general, i have been out in a couple and they are all fantastic, and IMHO anything over 240-260 bhp is wasted power as the car struggles to put it down. but its horses for courses, marks is a hi BHP turbo, and it is fantastic and if i could own it i would,
but deep down i think the ideal BHP figure for the 2 would be between 220-240 BHP, the car is so light and handles so well at that BHP you wqould have a good balance of power and handling. just depends on what turbo you pick for the job.
Hopefully i can overcome the barrier by adding some traction control!
Traction control works quite well in the only Thor conversion that I have been out in ,and that is reputed to have 280bhp (flywheel).
If you do decide to go for it Jamie, I will be there with mine, so you could have a go with the actual piece of kit we have been talking about. s:D :D s:D
There will also be Ben there with his PE I think, so you can see if mine is any good. s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Ben's is very good I understand.
Quote from: "markiii"budget is possible, but it depends really on what is included in the 2nd hand kit, and what you may choose to add.
I'm fitting one for a member (I'll let him shout if he wants to) in the next couple of months and the basic kit and fitting was looking at £2200, I reckon he's spent another £500 on the little bits though that make life easier, the stuff we have learnt the hardway can be improved on from the factory.
so just to clarify, by warranty I was talking about the kit. TTE is great because if there is an issue you always have backup covered in the price.
however thats is £1500 over your budget
everything else going to require some basic fettling on your part, obviously we are all here to provide help, but please don't make the mistake of thiking that any of the other options is fit and forget.
both Ekona and Tommy_D started from those expectations and both have since got rid.
PE won't make 250bhp, but still may well be fast enough, Hass or C2 will but at the expense of a little more lag.
next job I think is to get you out in both and see which suits you better.
Tis I and funny enough I totted up my spend so far yesterday; £2050 so total project will be costing over £3K now s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Jamie, I'll be there with my PE turbo setup - Just had it remapped a couple of weeks back by Perfect Touch. Now has ~230BHP and 212 Ft/lbs of torque, at 10psi - but interestingly at only 7psi produces same power but less peak torque.
The PE setup is a smaller turbo than those used on the C2 / Hass kits, the trade-off being that there is little lag and better throttle response, but peak power and torque figures are lower than the C2 kits. TBH though, more than 200bhp is enough to be plenty of fun in a car weighing under 1000kgs.
Also been having fun with the Roadsters ECU 'compensating' for the additional fuel the Unichip is adding, trying to take it back out - but that's for another post ...
Quote from: "BenF"10psi - but interestingly at only 7psi produces same power but less peak torque.
The PE setup is a smaller turbo
There's your answer. s;) ;) s;) The smaller turbo can't keep the airflow up at higher revs with more pressure. It'll do fine lower, that's where the increased torque comes.
Thanks for your posts folks s:) :) s:)
300+ miles round trip plus the drive out is abit much for me i'm afraid s:( :( s:(
Prob be the biggest cackle of Turbos!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I did however, go out for a drive with SteveJ in his Turbo last night around the Stratford area. A big thanks to SteveJ for the opportunity, very quick car!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
And I cleaned those teeth so well!! Never mind - maybe you can you make it to JAE - not an opportuity for a drive out there so much, but all makes of Turbo will be there.
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "BenF"10psi - but interestingly at only 7psi produces same power but less peak torque.
The PE setup is a smaller turbo
There's your answer. s;) ;) s;) The smaller turbo can't keep the airflow up at higher revs with more pressure. It'll do fine lower, that's where the increased torque comes.
Tem, it will happily make 10psi all the way to Redline - but I agree the turbo won't be operating most efficiently there.
On mine, the way L shaped bend with the 5th injector just at the throttle body that the air exiting the chargecooler has to navigate. That will be causing a fair amount of turbulance - plus the 6x4" PWR chargecooler on mine is 'only'
rated to 270bhp.
I suspect with an improved intake routing and a larger, free-er flowing chargecooler you could see 240-250bhp from a PE setup.
Quote from: "BenF"Quote from: "Tem"The smaller turbo can't keep the airflow up
Tem, it will happily make 10psi all the way to Redline - but I agree the turbo won't be operating most efficiently there.
Boost doesn't make power, it's the amount of air that gives (or loses) you power. s;) ;) s;) It's possible to make less power with higher boost, if you don't get it to flow good enough.
Smaller turbos generally have quite restrictive turbine wheel and housing. It's great for smaller exhaust gas flow and makes the turbo spin early with less airflow than is required to spin a larger turbo. But once you try to pass "too much" air through it, it just can't cope with it and creates a huge restriction. Which does raise the boost in the engine/intake, but decreases the airflow. That's why you can have higher boost with same or less power than with lower boost. You create boost against a restriction, but you don't create flow.
Swap in a bigger turbo, with less restrictive wheel+housing and you'll make a lot more power with the same boost. s8) 8) s8)
You have a PM Jamie
Cheers
Craig
well what an interesting read this thread has been... I think as someone who knows squat all about engines and wouldn't want to have to fix things every weekend, then I'll be saving up a for tte at some point in the distant future..
Well I guess Jamie bought Craig's (Eric) PE, cos I haven't heard anything.
That's the great thing about having a 2 at the moment Chris, lots of options for all sorts of user requirements.
Quote from: "loadswine"Well I guess Jamie bought Craig's (Eric) PE, cos I haven't heard anything.
Doesn't look like it;
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... 702#213702 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=213702#213702) m
That's that theory out of the window then. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Secondhand PE turbo kits are like buses then - nothing for ages and then 2 come along together! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Okay, that one shows my age then!
Quote from: "Chris"well what an interesting read this thread has been... I think as someone who knows squat all about engines and wouldn't want to have to fix things every weekend, then I'll be saving up a for tte at some point in the distant future..
..or a PE kit. Mine has done 40k miles so far on my car, plus probably at least the same again from previous owners. Turbo is still in really good condition when I checked it a couple of weeks back.
They are pretty tough little units the PE, best thing if anyone is interested is to blag a ride in one! s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "loadswine"They are pretty tough little units the PE, best thing if anyone is interested is to blag a ride in one! s:D :D s:D
I wouldn't mind a ride in one. Fancy popping over, Nigel, you could be here in about 4 hours or so. I'll put the kettle on s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
I will pop in when I come up to Durham Phil, late August. Pm you nearer the time mate.
No sweat though , if anyone wants a blast, I am happy to oblige with a whizz out in my 2 , wherever i am able!