Well, I haven't posted a comment on here for ages but would like to share my experiences of last night since I would hate for it to happen to anyone else.
Background is I've had my 2005 MR2 for 15 months and not a problem and I consider myself a decent driver and driven in nearly every condition possible and last night was no exception.
The basic story is that on my drive home last night, I was going my normal way through Northampton and coming to a country lane with the national speed limit. I got to about 50-55mph (it had rained just previous) just before and I hit a pool of water which had gathered in a dip in part of the road.
All 4 wheels aquaplaned and as soon as the front left tyre (I think) got a bit of grip the back kicked out. I tried to control it and about 20 metres on the car completely went and flew sideways into the crash rail thing and into the trees and bushes. I ended up in a ditch facing the road with the car completely smashed.
Luckily I was able to climb out of the passenger window which was smashed in the crash and climbed into the road to wave down anyone who was passing.
I am so thankful there were no other cars or pedestrians around as it scared the living sh*t out of me and I don't mind admitting I was bricking it as it happened.
The car was unrecognisable from the front and the passenger side had the worse damage. No airbags went off (bit shocked by that but apparently it depends on the impact point) and I had the passenger door handle/grip on my lap!
So whats the point of this, well to everyone who drives an MR2 please take care because even if you've driven in similar conditions in the past, it's not certain the car will behave in the same way. This has opened my eyes and shaken me to the core and I hope this makes some people think as well.
The ambulance and police said that they have seen a lot worse for a lot less so I'm lucky to only have a few scratches and a very sore knee. They were quite surprised.
Anyway everyone, please take care. I don't want to read about anything worse on this board.
Take it easy,
Drew (MR2-Less s:cry: :cry: s:cry: )
hey Drew......
sorry to hear about the accident. mr2 can be frisky in wet and really hard to judge how car will react in/ around water..... the main thing is that your ok.... the car is materialistic and can be replaced whilst a life cant..... hope you mange to sort out insurance and get back on the road again super quick.....
all the best
kashy
Drew, sorry to hear that, but the mere fact you are writing this mail means you are OK and up and running.
Hope you can get the car sorted/replaced, will you be buying another 2?
That sounds like a monster 'off' Drew. Brings back horrid memories of my New Year's Eve. Not nice, and particularly cruel when you're on a familiar road and think you know what's coming up. I suppose there's a lesson there for us all.
Good to know you're OK and that the '2 did its bit to protect you though. That's far and away the most important thing.
Hope it hasn't put you off '2 ownership s:? :? s:?
Sorry to hear this Drew, but good that you're around to tell the tale and nobody was hurt.
Must admit, I hate those standing water moments, especially on the m/way when you have no option of changing lane. Clenched buttock moments!
Glad your OK Drew sounded rather nasty. I went off for a drive last night and got caught in some horrendous conditions, it did go through my mind about experiences of people on here with standing water in outside lanes and it certainly made me think about what I was doing, I hope that you experience is of good to someone.
Hope that your back on the road as soon as and that you get well soon.
Very sad to hear this Drew, but at least you are not hurt s:( :( s:(
As everyone says,,,,glad you are ok,,,,,,cars can be replaced,,,people cant
Sorry to hear of your mishap Drew, as has been said most important thing is that you are okay.
Hope you get all the necessary insurance sorted with no drama. You've had more than enough of that already. Good luck mate! s:) :) s:)
Glad your ok! Which is the point i wanted to add. Never did see an official NCAP test for the safety of the mr2, but of all the accidents people keep reporting on here and how they keep walking away from them, does make me think mr2 is a solid little motor. I know its not going to be a 5 * but from what ive seen on here it is encouraging to say the least! Glad your ok anyway, and buy another one ! s:) :) s:)
sorry chap, hope the knee is better soon. im sure i can summarise from all of us, its the worst feeling, and we would not wish it on anyone.
so so glad you are not hurt.
E
You're not alone...
this happened to me 3 days ago also as a result of hitting standing water. luckily for me the car didn't flip, just smashed hard against the guardrail. this was on the highway traveling at high speed.
So yes, everyone please be careful out there when it's raining
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/redracermr2/CIMG0994.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/redracermr2/CIMG0988.jpg)
s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
I'm gutted for you mate, that car was an absolute beauty s:( :( s:(
Same happend to me - Thats 3 of us (that we know about) then!
glad you walked away okay!
unlucky m8
gotta say thou- im surprised that the 2 behaved the way it did- ok- so its RWD and mid engined- but assuming you let off the throttle when aquaplaning (dunno if this is the right thing to do?! i assume so if your gradual) then it sounds like most cars would have behaved in a similar way???
4WD scooby or RS4 may have been ok but many other cars including standard FWD 206 may well have reactied the same!
Sorry to see these accidents occuring. I had a near one myself this morning in a downpour. I was just passing a white van on a quiet bit of dual carriageway when we both hit some standing water together. I took a bow wave over the windscreen from the van and lost all vision for about 2-3 seconds at 50mph s:shock: :shock: s:shock: When I got through it I had drifted across towards the van and wasn't far of winging him.
No more overtaking for me in this kind of weather.
Firstly, thanks for all the kind words of support. I am extremely lucky and in my opinion I am only alive because of the MR2 safety. The cabin was fine and there was no movement in steering wheel or pedals.
I went back today to see it in daylight and it being lifted by a crane out of the ditch and it was not a pleasant site.
The passenger door had a hole in it from hitting a concrete post, the front was crumpled/missing up to about 6 inches before the windscreen and the back quarter on the passenger was missing!!!
Only weird thing is some scally has nicked the CD/radio with my Muse CD in, cheeky git!!!!
Anyways, I'm ok, car is written off and to be honest I don't know if I can/want to drive another 2 after that. It was my pride and joy so still gutted.
Thanks again everyone, top quality community on this board.
Cheers,
Drew
Quote from: "drewdawson"Only weird thing is some scally has nicked the CD/radio with my Muse CD in, cheeky git!!!!
That just sums up the state of the world really, doesn't it s:? :? s:?
Anyway - sorry to hear about the smash (both of you, already said my bit to RedRacer over on SC mind s:) :) s:) ) - here's hoping you both get behind the wheel of another '2.
i did this 3 months ago, but got mine fixed.
as for what to do when sliding like that is not to let off the power, but not to add anyhting either. as soon as you power down the wheels lose what little traction they have and the spin gets worse.
you need to keep power on and opposite lock to the direction your heading towards.
saying that i should have followed my own advice, s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Drew feel for you mate. Only span mine and didnt hit anything but scared the beejesus outa me. As all said before glad your not hurt.
As everyons said... glad you're ok..
We need to ban water from british roads.. seems like the only solution.
Glad to hear you are OK. Odd beast the '2. Took mine on a soaking wet handling day and had absolutely no problems keeping it straight or recovering from oversteer and understeer at pretty high cornering speeds. However, when I hit standing water on the dual carriageway, the car often feels marginal for stability. I try and keep the speed sensible when it is tipping down now. Adding a front strut brace seems to have helped with this a bit.
Chris
Quote from: "drewdawson"Only weird thing is some scally has nicked the CD/radio with my Muse CD in, cheeky git!!!!
Strewth, you really did have a lucky escape!
It's good to hear that you came out of it ok.....and your experience and the warning it serves certainly made me think again.
I've driven through standing water a bit quicker than I probably should and regularly "burn off" a few cars in the wet, using an uphill overtaking lane (on a road which has seen a few accidents) on my way home from work.
I never intended the 2 to be a wet weather car.....but my wife changed jobs and regularly uses the ford focus (always seems to be running on fumes when I need to use it s:x :x s:x ).....so I use the 2 the majority of the time (by choice I must admit.....getting into the Focus feels like driving a Transit van after the 2......my wife using the other car is a way of also justifying it)
Wow bad smash mate ...really sorry for you.....I have to say the recent rain has caused havoc round here. I went through some deep water at a very slow speed and when i came out of it i heard a scraping noise from the back. Got out and found the rear nappy folded under the car and another little plastic jobbie hanging vertical from the sill. Ten mins laid on my back with a spanner saw the offending items removed and then i was on my way again......soaked...!! Need some penny washers to fit them back as the holes had ripped out. Sigh.......
hey mate, i also had the similar crash. my air bag did not came off too which shocked me as well. I rang up toyota and they said that the force was not sufficient for computer to launch the air bag. I was like WTF are you talking my car got wrote off and u said not enough of Force?. I cannot do anything as the toyota said that i should rang them just after the accident for them to understand the situation. It was all bull****. Better becareful on wet road mate, on my opinion i reckon the MR2 is not good on wet road
[mod] aaronjb - edited for language [/mod]
Quote from: "salom"on my opinion i reckon the MR2 is not good on wet road
What make/makes of tyres were you running? Was it the same make on all four corners or a mixture of brands? Were the front and rear sizes staggered?
Was this your first mid engined rwd car? How long did you have it before it was written off?
Quote from: "nelix"Quote from: "salom"on my opinion i reckon the MR2 is not good on wet road
What make/makes of tyres were you running? Was it the same make on all four corners or a mixture of brands? Were the front and rear sizes staggered?
Was this your first mid engined rwd car? How long did you have it before it was written off?
good questions m8- i wait to hear the results of this too!
I personally think the MR2 (Mark 3) is a pretty good car in the wet. What's its not good at doing is puddles.
My brother had a similar experience in his S2000, where it aquaplaned on the M3.
I have often wondered if its worth putting a heavy block in the frunk during wet and icy weather.
Quote from: "salom"hey mate, i also had the similar crash. my air bag did not came off too which shocked me as well. I rang up toyota and they said that the force was not sufficient for computer to launch the air bag. I was like WTF are you talking my car got wrote off and u said not enough of Force?. I cannot do anything as the toyota said that i should rang them just after the accident for them to understand the situation. It was all bull****. Better becareful on wet road mate, on my opinion i reckon the MR2 is not good on wet road
[mod] aaronjb - edited for language [/mod]
The airbags will only go off in a frontal collision.
Side swipes, rear shunts etc (even hitting something at an oblique angle wont set them off)
Quote from: "simonp"The airbags will only go off in a frontal collision.
Side swipes, rear shunts etc (even hitting something at an oblique angle wont set them off)
even a hit dead middle at the front but the energy heading at a slight angle wont set it off.
and Salom, the 2 is excellent in the wet, but if you have tyres like the stock yoko's on then it can get twitchy in the wet, but thats the tyres and not the car. Other question you have to ask yourself is do i have the skills to drive at anything other than a snails pace in the wet
I have noticed Salom back on the forum, and he has not posted, i doubt very much we will get the answers to my questions, which leads me to believe his tyre set up was incorrect and therefore contributary to the accident
1 theory i have on this is if your driving in wet and suddenly hit standing water- you should of course not alter the balance of the car by braking, accelerating, easing off accelerator etc etc
HOWEVER, suppose JUST before hitting standing water you let go of accelerator, foot on clucth- weight initially moves towards front of car (relativly speaking) and then stablaises as you free wheel into the water. this means the car remains balance, but offers the advantage that if 1 rear wheel regains traction before the other- the car will not spin???
or perhaps the above is only worth doing if you dont have LSD???
freak, we covered this on my course.
the official line for aquaplaning is to
1, remove acceleration,
2, do not brake,
3, do not apply any steering input.
4, (it also recommends depressing the clutch)
however, as our 2's are RWD depressing the clutch will not have any effect on the front wheels - so i would recommend ignoring point 4.
i have aquaplaned in the 2 a couple of times, and that is with excellent tread depth on all four tyres. best thing to do is stay still at the controls, and do not panic. any subsequent inputs on the controls should be smooth and progressive.
E s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "enid_b"freak, we covered this on my course.
the official line for aquaplaning is to
1, remove acceleration,
2, do not brake,
3, do not apply any steering input.
4, (it also recommends depressing the clutch)
however, as our 2's are RWD depressing the clutch will not have any effect on the front wheels - so i would recommend ignoring point 4.
i have aquaplaned in the 2 a couple of times, and that is with excellent tread depth on all four tyres. best thing to do is stay still at the controls, and do not panic. any subsequent inputs on the controls should be smooth and progressive.
E s:D :D s:D
cool- thanks man! i wasn;t too far off then! congratrs btw m8- just noticed you answered my Qs about your course
cheers dude s:D :D s:D
To say the 2 is not suited for wet condition is utterly nonsense to me.
My sympathy goes to Drew for having to go through such unimaginable experience that one can only begin to realise how life-changing such event can be.
However that said, 90% of road accidents are credited to drivers' fault, and by no mean I'm implying Drew or anyone here who have had similar accidents are faulted, but my thoughts are that many drivers are not well equiped with knowledge on handling a car in a wet condition. They rely on their instincts on this condition, and our instincts are many times flawed.
Like Rich said earlier, never brake while or just before you get into a paddle of standing water. We have a tendency to do so but it's not the proper way. That's because even though while your brakes are engaged, your tyre will lose traction anyway, and if one doesn't lock the steering or counter any swaying of the car due to an abrupt deceleration in conjunction with a lost of traction, you end up in big trouble.
Maintain throttle, or increase a little if you must. Never brake abruptly.
Quote from: "enid_b"4, (it also recommends depressing the clutch)
however, as our 2's are RWD depressing the clutch will not have any effect on the front wheels - so i would recommend ignoring point 4.
i have aquaplaned in the 2 a couple of times, and that is with excellent tread depth on all four tyres. best thing to do is stay still at the controls, and do not panic. any subsequent inputs on the controls should be smooth and progressive.
E s:D :D s:D
I found depressing the clutch helped to sort it out when wheelspin set in at 50 in 2nd on a very wet surface and the car was snaking around. To keep the power on would not remove the cause of the problem and to ease off the gas quickly enough to be useful may cause weight transfer forward. The key is depressing the clutch and changing gear while you are at it so you can get back on it in third as soon as the plot comes straight. (Disclaimer: Technique not recommended for road use)
I think it is a case of sussing out how it feels before acting. My usual is to keep everything neutral if all four wheels are aquaplaning and hope for the best. Just ask for as little from the tyres as you can and don't panic. If you do have to make any inputs, be gentle.
Being mid engined, the car does not share the front engined car's general property of behaving like a dart (ie travelling heavy end first) so will never be as stable as your average front engined car. However, it can be made to go very fast on track in the wet, just as fast as four wheel drive stuff with a little practice, as I found out at a soaking wet handling day last year.
Chris
Quote from: "nelix"Quote from: "salom"on my opinion i reckon the MR2 is not good on wet road
What make/makes of tyres were you running? Was it the same make on all four corners or a mixture of brands? Were the front and rear sizes staggered?
Was this your first mid engined rwd car? How long did you have it before it was written off?
Hey, sorry for keeping you guys waiting. I am having exam at the moment. Do not get me wrong guys i reckon it is not good on the wet because i spun out a few times in the wet with new high end tyres and balancing done. The crash i had was because i was doing 45km/h for a 135 degree right turn. I did not notice the hairpin corner and hold on my break ( emergency break ) 10-20 metres before hitting the road barrier. As soon as i hit the break hard the tyre locked up and ski ahead into the barrier.
I am sure the tyres were correctly placed. 15' front and 16'rear. I asked the tyre shop to get me the best quality tyre and they reckon Bridgestone potenza s03 to me. I've driven my parents 330Ci bmw and toyota camry. For some reason i never spun out in my parents car before.
Yes, the mr2 spyder i had was my first mid engine car. I still like Spyder and will buy another Mr2 Spyder after the exam.
I had been driving for 1.5 years and still considered myself as inexperienced driver.
Sorry for the language, english is my second language. I'll post some picture of my car
(http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x157/ronaldteh/12062007500.jpg)
Salom im sorry about your car. The main question was were your tyre sizes staggered? i.e. are the rear tyres wider than the fronts?
Yes, I bought a 2001 model MR2 but i did change the rear wheel to 16' when i got my first spun out. After that i realise it doesnt fix my problem so i did a balancing and tyre change for all 4 wheel.
I think the main point in all this is please Be careful! I also am a member of the 'spin, spin crash big walet emptying club' and the lessons I learnt are SLOW DOWN! I also lowered the pressure of my rear tyres (I'm running 17"s) Just take care guys especially if we get all the rain we're promised over the next few days.
QuoteThe crash i had was because i was doing 45km/h for a 135 degree right turn. I did not notice the hairpin corner and hold on my break ( emergency break ) 10-20 metres before hitting the road barrier.
Do you mean you pulled the handbrake up?
Surely thats never good when in motion whatever car you drive.
na, not hand break. i hit the break at full. i am not really sure but i think the tyre locked up.
A case of there is only so much car control will rescue you from. The key to avoiding this sort of accident is to match speed to visibility. Limit point analysis and all that.
Chris
Quote from: "ChrisGB"Odd beast the '2. Took mine on a soaking wet handling day and had absolutely no problems keeping it straight or recovering from oversteer and understeer at pretty high cornering speeds.
I've been wanting to take my '2 onto a wet airfield or track and get some proper experience and professional instruction on handling skid conditions. Can I ask where you went for your handling day and how much it cost?
On the couple of occasions I've ended up in skids (one of which was in a Corsa while cornering too fast and the other was in the Spyder caused by a slightly overenthusiastic right foot) I've found myself fine handling the actual skid, but at the point everything gets traction back I've been unable to straighten up the opposite-lock quickly enough (in the case of the Corsa I ended up on the grass embankment).
Certainly, just knowing what to do when you lose control is only part of the story - practicing it and getting your reflexes trained is a worthwhile exercise.
1st lotus do a good airfield day at North weald airfield.
£110 or so I seem to remember. Althougb I could be wrong looking at the site now!
http://www.1stlotus.com/intro.htm
Simon
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"1st lotus do a good airfield day at North weald airfield.
£110 or so I seem to remember.
Is there any instruction provided in that, or is it just a case of being let loose on the airfield to do your own thing?
Quote from: "FireFury"Quote from: "SimonC_Here"1st lotus do a good airfield day at North weald airfield.
£110 or so I seem to remember.
Is there any instruction provided in that, or is it just a case of being let loose on the airfield to do your own thing?
Should've read the site before posting s:) :) s:)
Seems there is instruction, prices are listed as:
2 Person Day - £340 each in your own car
4 Person Day - £170 each in your own car
Wonder if they make the track wet artificially or if you just get whatever conditions are naturally happening on the day s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "FireFury"Wonder if they make the track wet artificially or if you just get whatever conditions are naturally happening on the day s:) :) s:)
They don't create a skidpan - you take it as it is.
The Andy Walsh day was the one I went on. I did not have tuition though, just practice around some courses laid out. I think it was a club day with 30 cars at £30 each. Anyone interested if I try and arrange something similar (say 15 cars as 30 was a bit much) for ROC? We had a real variety of machinery there. The MR2 was competitive against much faster machinery, even a tuned Scooby. The rain is a great leveller.
Once I get finished with the mods I will be back there for one of the 4 people handling days.
Chris
Proper 2 or 4 person Walshy days at NW are ace. If you ever get the spare cash, then do one. s8) 8) s8)
Don't know if Chris can find the vids again but here is the old thread from one of my days there.
http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1624&highlight=north+weald
Simon