does any one here actually have the PPE header and down pipe fitted? id so..pros and cons ?
cheers
perry
I did have it, until my enginge blew.
Pro's
about 12hp
The price, even cheaper now!
amazing noise louder than my mates 340R at full throttle.
Easy fitment, everything is there, including O2 simulator.
Con's
I could never get the O2 simulator to work it always through a CEL.
There is no flex joint on the new setup, this caused me to crack some bolts.
It doesn't pass emissions. (but you can always revert back for an MOT)
It has a 4-1 setup.
If you want my advice get the PPE header but the 4-2-1 Rocket setup. I think there is a special group buy on SC. It is a much better design.
Adam
Quote from: "Jap GT300"If you want my advice get the PPE header but the 4-2-1 Rocket setup. I think there is a special group buy on SC. It is a much better design.
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8815 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8815) m
The GB has closed already though.
correct, but I;ve beens peaking with Paul, and it's only $100 more expensive outside of the GB. AAn he'll customise it to suit you, i/e move flex joint, add racing cat, egt probes et.c.
incidentaly while the original that adam has is a 4-1 desing and theoretically this is worse for low down torque. It's the result that counts, and teh dyno shows improvements all over.
Thanks for the info guys, will be contacting Paul for a delivered price and likely lead time for the 'rocket' header and racing cat with flex joints.
Possibly also the CAI need to se what the rpicing is etc.
was originally going to gut the main cat, but following the loss of the second hand replacement I was going to do work on, this seems the best option
hurry up then :-) :-) :-)
I need to see a dyno, so I can decide if I'm getting one or going for teh TTE Turbo.
Quote from: "markiii"I need to see a dyno, so I can decide if I'm getting one or going for the TTE Turbo.
Welcome to the club!
I reckon we could get to 170 with dastek and rocket header.
versus 180bhp for the entry level Turbo (estimate not fact)
It's teh torque curve thats much better with the turbo.
it's just a third of teh price :-) :-) :-)
choices choices.
Have just e-mailed him.......will keep you updated s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "markiii"I reckon we could get to 170 with dastek and rocket header.
versus 180bhp for the entry level Turbo (estimate not fact)
It's the torque curve thats much better with the turbo.
it's just a third of the price :-) :-) :-)
choices choices.
are you inc the PPE CAI in that scenario or another breathing option?
I reckon my duct with a good filter or the ppe shoudl be about the same.
Quote from: "markiii"I reckon we could get to 170 with dastek and rocket header.
Uh...huh...just heard the rocket header and there's no way I'm putting that on mine, no matter how much power it would make s:? :? s:?
m http://www.spydermods.com/legacy/exhaus ... %20low.wmv (http://www.spydermods.com/legacy/exhaust%20tests%20low.wmv) m
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "markiii"I reckon we could get to 170 with dastek and rocket header.
Uh...huh...just heard the rocket header and there's no way I'm putting that on mine, no matter how much power it would make s:? :? s:?
m http://www.spydermods.com/legacy/exhaus ... %20low.wmv (http://www.spydermods.com/legacy/exhaust%20tests%20low.wmv) m
Sounds like a fart-box - Nova boy would be well-pleased with that s:? :? s:?
yep, shame really.
turbo here we come.
anybody up fro robbing a bank?
It might have sounded better with a different exhaust, of course..
I did rather like the sound of the gutted cats with Cyclopse exhaust though.. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
There's no getting away from the 'farty' sound though sadly.. Lets face it, we drive an inline-4 with no turbo s:( :( s:(
Could be worse, we could drive a flat-four s;) ;) s;) (Nice as standard, but having heard some of the aftermarket exhausts on a Legacy GT-B.. they end up sounding like a diesel!)
Group buy on turbo kits, Mark? s;) ;) s;) s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
I remind you there's a shop in France importing PPE products s;-) ;-) s;-)
Quote from: "dieamond"I remind you there's a shop in France importing PPE products s;-) ;-) s;-)
Very nice, but assuming you'd rather not pay the profit margins of 2 organisations rather than 1, plus the cost of shipping it twice, and direct all your warranty queries via a 3rd party in France, wouldn't you be better off just phoning PPE?
Maybe because PPE makes me a reseller reduction which allow me to make profit without increasing the price
Maybe because shipping from US to France for several items, and then France to UK is the same price or nearly the same as US -> UK
Maybe because VAT is already included and the custom clearance done
And maybe because you want to have it in one week and not one month
so do you have any PPE headers, CATS or CAI's in stock?
Quote from: "dieamond"Maybe because PPE makes me a reseller
Makes me wonder why they don't list you as their distributor...
m http://www.ppeengineering.com/distributors.htm (http://www.ppeengineering.com/distributors.htm) m
How much do you charge for the PPE header then? Including shipping to Finland?
Paul of PPE fame has come back to me to say they they wont be making any further headers for the forseable future as they need more staff to keep up with present orders. So descision made for me really.
Have just spoken to Fensport regarding the TRD header and they are placing an order with Japan on Monday, so need to mke a descision by then. TRD quote 14bhp and 7.5nm for their header, exhaust and induction pipe, so I would be hoping for similar with my present exhaust, our GB pipe and their header.
My question is:- I would assume that a freeflow header would remove the pre-cats? yes/no ???
If so I can judge the noise level prior to gutting the main cat at a later point?
The TRD header does reomve the pre-cats.
It looks like this...
(http://i17.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/11/2e/15_1.JPG)
cheers matey
just need to check a few other suppliers now as Fensports £699 + vat (£821) and still wait 4 weeks for delivery will be a last resort on monday
I WILL get this bloody thing to go faster!
For another grand and a few hours work you could have a 2zz in there.
That will make it quicker s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
A TRD header never allowed a MR to go faster...
Quote from: "dieamond"A TRD header never allowed a MR to go faster...
More torque and more bhp......how does this not help speed/acceleration?
Show me a dyno...
Seriously, the only difference beetween the TRD header and the original is the removing of the precats.
TRD is newer so clean and all, but note taht pipes are the same diameter as stock, and nearly exactly the same design, where is optimization ??
<MOD>Changed pic to link due to size<MOD>
http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/headers.JPG
I know TRD claims +14hp for their headers, exhaust and intake pipe (300 Euros for an aluminium pipe, just bright...) but it has never been verified, and I bet it's not possible.
If you want to spend 800£ in some TRD stuff, buy a Sportivo suspension set, THAT will make you go faster (in curves, not in straight lines, i admit)
I think what he is saying is 14bhp isn't a noticable difference.
I couldn't feel the difference under acceleration once I had added the PPE Header and down pipe
for a 4-2 header which is what the TRD is there is nothing wrong with the pipe diameters. The main restriction is the pre-cats.
Hence why the Amuse, Top Secret, TRD, and Trial headers are all much teh same. The only thing to really judge them on is shape, quality and price. Any gaisn will be much the same.
Gutting the pre-cats will be much cheaper an nearly a effective as it's only the slight balloon where the cats sit that disturbs the flow.
If Power is the reason yor going this way and the PPE isn't available I'd seriously suggest leaving teh header for now and spending teh £450 on a unichip.
And with regard to the comment about gutting you main cat. I wouldn't.
I had a decat pipe made as some of you know. Having driven shall we say a little competitively with SteveJ last week i realised just what a hole in bottom end torque this caused, though granted it freed up a little at the top end. I've since swapped that cat back on and teh car is notably faster.
So if your gutting, or adding a TRD or any of the above my advice is leave teh cat alone.
My decat pipe will be going back on when theturbo is done.
14hp is a difference
what I say is that you will never get it, TRD is *lying*
in short
TRD gives better throttle response, more noise, and removes the chance of pre-cats disintegrating.
PPE makes proper power. but with the one adam has, has a questionable 02 sensor layout.
Quote from: "markiii"If Power is the reason yor going this way and the PPE isn't available I'd seriously suggest leaving the header for now and spending the £450 on a unichip. .
Mark, is the unichip with just filter and exhaust changed likely to make much difference tho?
every engine is different, but Martin got 22bhp with just a unichip and an apexi intake (probably would have got it without the intake)
do you think your decat would have performed better if it had been chipped, thus tuning it for the reduced back pressure?
I beleive so.
If you want to try the theory your welcome to borrow it and have the map adjusted.
If I was staying n/a thats what I would have done.
Thats very nice of you matey s;-) ;-) s;-) to be truthful I wouldnt realy want to have the car mapped and the nre-mapped again after I either gut it or replace it.
A few questions for you :-) :-) :-)
who made up the cat pipe? Cost? Was it done in one hit or did you need to leave the car or cat with them for more than a day?
I only ask as I need the car most days. If it wasnt too expensive I would rather buy the pipe, have the car chipped and if its no good then get the chippers to take it off there and then.
(sorry if this has been covered before)
mine was modified from a spare main cat unit I bought for £30
I've spoken to H&S and they would make a dedicated pipe with flex joint for approx £150
so 150 for the pipe and 450 for the chip..............Milway you say s;-) ;-) s;-)
milway for the chip, oh yes
heres a thought.
DAZ400 recently killed his cat, if he still has it maybe you can go teh route I did and pay peanuts to have teh cat cut out and some pipe welded in.
if you decide to go that route let me know when your going to be at millway and maybe we can make a bit of a meet of it, and I'll pop down for a dyno run as well.
will do matey :-) :-) :-)
DAZ if you have it my name is on it!!!!!
PM on its way
Just been on the Millway site only to read for the first time about the turbo'd SMT they did? I obviously havnt been reading all the posts! ??
who's is it??? how much????
I'd say that'd be Martin's (mph on here) SMT Roadster.. s:) :) s:)
Hmm.. although looking at those pics, I could be wrong s:? :? s:?
[edit: No, looking at their dyno chart it has 'mph' in the top left hand corner next to the date.. so I reckon that's Martin's car..]
ps Darrens cat has already been claimed s:cry: :cry: s:cry:
it is Martins, have a word with Adam ref cats he may have a spare knocking around.
Eh? Someone talking about me again?
Millway good. Was there today doing some bits and pieces. Have reduced the boost down to .5 bar, but have a full remap (3.5 hours worth of playing by Hedley). Net result is that it's actually a little lower on top bhp (210bhp), but up 10lf/ft at the lower end to 220lb/ft @3100. Where 10bhp isn't really noticable, 10lb/ft *is*. Those driveshafts look awfully thin... s:? :? s:?
As far as someone cares about it, here it is my dyno with PPE header/cat, Remus muffler, TRD panel air filter in stock box and stock ECU:
(http://www.spydermagazine.com/files/ToyotaDyno.gif)
Never cell light, better torque and engine rev between 4000-5500 t/min in comparison to stock. I like my PPE header very much.
Quote from: "Maurizio"As far as someone cares about it, here it is my dyno with PPE header/cat, Remus muffler, TRD panel air filter in stock box and stock ECU
Did you ever dyno the stock engine?
Also, where did they get the 40hp powerloss?? I had only 18hp powerloss, when it was measured...
Personally, I'd recommend never to compare dyno sheets - way too many variables to consider on how the values are calculated or adjusted.
Best only to compares plots done on the same day at the same dyno. Unadjusted air temperature, pressure and humidity will easily account for a +/- 5bhp difference on the stock engine. Remember that when you next see 'performance' air filters..
I haven't tested stock engine. The drum bank was a MAHA 4 whell driven, braked, not inertial forced. Usually, its readings are lower than others banks. Indeed, the wheel Power is too low.. My engine is ok almost considering compression ratio that is normal. However, i have seen a dyno chart of a Elise made by the same tuning man and also in this case the power dispersed was high ( about 20-25 kw ).
Quote from: "mph"Personally, I'd recommend never to compare dyno sheets - way too many variables ...
Agreed. That's why I prefer what I call my "poor-man's dyno" (PmD) - timed 3rd gear runs from 3,000 to 6,500 rpm (~75 mph).
I do this on a flat stretch of road - both directions. Floor the throttle at 2,000 rpm (25 mph) - so the car will be stable and accelerating smoothly by the time the stopwatch is started at 3,000 rpm. Click off the stopwatch at 6,500 rpm.
Thus, there are no shifting or traction variables ... and "poor man's dyno" runs
don't beat up the drivetrain!
Hundreds of a second are meaningless, but tenths of a second become meaningful, especially when averaged over a half dozen runs - in both directions.
In showroom stock configuration, my 2003 averages 8.16 seconds.
CAI examples:
With a cold-air duct going downward from the back of the air filter box it averaged 8.23 seconds.
With a cold-air duct from the stock engine bay inlet (in front of and blow the fuse box) to the side cold air inlet behind the driver's door it averaged 8.17 seconds.
With
both ducting from the driver-side body vent to the stock intake below and in front of the fuse box
plus ducting between the air-filter box and the left-rear wheel inlet ... average PmD times dropped to 7.99 seconds.
Conclusion? Removing the 3" to 2" venturi restriction between the air-filter box and the right-rear fender entrance plus adding cold air from the driver-side body vent reduced PmD times ~0.2 seconds (about 4 hp at my 2,440 pound running weight).
It would be interesting to see results from those who have, for example:
1. a low-restriction muffler, alone
2. a low-restriction muffler with a tuned chipset
3. low-restriction muffler, tuned chipset and header
etc. etc.