Please see 'Another newbie with doubts' topic. Picked up car after having cam chain tensioner oil seal replaced and within a few miles I have an amber engine warning light on. Is this conclusive proof that the engines knackered? Id like to know quick as the dealer shuts at 4 and id like to get it back to him today. Thanks in advance
Most common fault is failed oxygen sensor(s). I would not assume a duff engine from an ECU light.
+1
Its possible they unplugged something and did'nt put it back on.
Might be worth giving it a quick visual inspection.
You dont seem happy with the car ,and keep finding issues ,so take it back and look around for another
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200961101760? ... 1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200961101760?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) m
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-model-51 ... 0822207%26 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-model-51-PLATE-TOYOTA-MR2-ROADSTER-VVTI-1-8-CABRIO-CONVERTIBLE-CAB-HARDTOP/321231369272?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18222%26meid%3D2098925449241679161%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D8339%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D200960822207%26) m
Most likely to be an O2 sensor but you need a code reader to be certain. There's a full list of fault codes on this forum.
Take it back and let them check it. Amber light doesn't mean 'don't drive' the car.
Its back with the dealer now & he's getting his mechanic to check on monday. He was actually quite apologetic. He said himself he'd rather have it checked before I drove it any further. Thanks for advice chaps
Quote from: "Wilderman"Its back with the dealer now & he's getting his mechanic to check on monday. He was actually quite apologetic. He said himself he'd rather have it checked before I drove it any further. Thanks for advice chaps
Sounds like a fair result.
Quote from: "trevsmr2"You dont seem happy with the car ,and keep finding issues ,so take it back and look around for another
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200961101760? ... 1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200961101760?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) m
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-model-51 ... 0822207%26 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-model-51-PLATE-TOYOTA-MR2-ROADSTER-VVTI-1-8-CABRIO-CONVERTIBLE-CAB-HARDTOP/321231369272?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D18222%26meid%3D2098925449241679161%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D8339%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D200960822207%26) m
+1
They seem to be a bunch of amatuers mate, when you took it back with the EMM light on, he should have put the reader on it and told you what it was. It takes 1 min not 1 hour !!
Get rid of it mate and get your cash back, plenty of good looked after cars available s:) :) s:)
As has been said before there is the danger of falling in love with the car and hanging in there, they need to either fully assess what's wrong and fix it, maybe give you a warranty or get your cash back and find a better one.
At least you know your rights so keep the pressure on them it's not 'fit for purpose'
Quote from: "andyhull"They seem to be a bunch of amatuers mate, when you took it back with the EMM light on, he should have put the reader on it and told you what it was. It takes 1 min not 1 hour !!
)
It is the weekend!! What car sales operation has the workshop open on a Sunday?
One reason why its always good to get your own reader, you get to know what the fault is immediately the light comes on.
Quote from: "roger"Quote from: "andyhull"They seem to be a bunch of amatuers mate, when you took it back with the EMM light on, he should have put the reader on it and told you what it was. It takes 1 min not 1 hour !!
)
It is the weekend!! What car sales operation has the workshop open on a Sunday?
One reason why its always good to get your own reader, you get to know what the fault is immediately the light comes on.
What kind of dealership allows sells cars with massive oil consumption ? and the reason the EML was not on probably when he took the car, is because it would have been reset after a battery disconection !! They would have seen it in status though, and should have checked all that after doing the tensioner seal
Sorry but this just does not sound right at all to me !
Hi Wilderman, did the mechanic check the car today as promised, what was the verdict?
The eml light was due to lambda sensor but they said its been cleared & hasnt come back on yet. I didn't get chance to pick it up yesterday but im off to get it soon. Oo look the suns shining too, thats bound to mean everythings ok! :-/
Chances are that the code will be back sooner or later. Not a big job to fix, but better if garage fixes it. I would accept the car subject to the dealer replacing the sensor of the light comes back on in the near future.
Chris
If they haven't replaced the faulty sensor the EML will come back on after 10-20 miles driving.
I'm sure you won't, but don't take your eye off of the ball here. The real issue is the oil consumption, you need to keep reminding the dealer of that.
Also, make sure that the EML comes on when the ignition is switched on.
Really a sad state of affaires when we have to make statements like that, on the face of it the dealer is being reasonable but gets tarnished by the reputation of others.
Quote from: "mrzwei"I'm sure you won't, but don't take your eye off of the ball here. The real issue is the oil consumption, you need to keep reminding the dealer of that.
Also, make sure that the EML comes on when the ignition is switched on.
Really a sad state of affaires when we have to make statements like that, on the face of it the dealer is being reasonable but gets tarnished by the reputation of others.
I forgot about the oil consumption issue, this being in a separate thread. That would concern me more than the CEL.
I definatley havent forgot the oil consumption issue! Im trying to rack up the mileage as quick as possible, even the wife is using it to get to work and back this week (this isnt hard for her though lol). Im checking the oil daily now. As long as the EML light is caused by just the sensor alone im not too worried about it at this stage. Oh yes, and it has now come back on.
If it still using oil give it back and tell them to sort it because if you leave it to late on that one then you certainly will loose your foot up your arse when you kick yourself.
I am thinking this is a wind up !!!!
so let me get this right !! the dealer told you what the EML came on for, and identified the o2 sensor. Then he gave you the car back after a reset ??? And you trust them enough to believe the oil consumption is fixed ???
I know you love the car, but surely you are not blinded as to whats going on here s:shock: :shock: s:shock: basically they dont know their @@@'s from their elbows or are playing you for a fool
Not in a million zillion years would I leave that dealership without my cash back,,, get the money back, walk away from the car and look for one from this site maybe.
As posted before, your foot will be seriously lodged up your nether regions if the warranty runs out !!!!!! and belive me just by coinsidence they always blow up just outside of warranty s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Quote from: "andyhull"What kind of dealership allows sells cars with massive oil consumption ?
To be fair to car retailers/ dealers, how can they know if the engine is consuming a lot of oil? They can test drive the car (no smoke evident), rev the nuts off the engine (no smoke evident) and very often they'll get it serviced prior to sale (normally without checking the oil level first - why would they check it??!) so the oil level is right when they sell the car.
It is the unscrupulous people who sell their own cars on (or trade them in) that are at fault here because, let's face it, the reason they got rid of the car is because they knew it was using a load of oil and was about to fail. I know I work in the trade and I have (kind of) my own agenda on this matter, but I think it's very unfair on the car dealers who sell a car in good faith, having bought it in good faith to then be stomached with a big bill to repair an engine that was faulty. That said, they make a profit and that is why the law makes them responsible for the odd occasion that this kind of thing happens (certainly I agree that the consumer should not bear the cost but I just feel a bit sorry for the "dealer").
I have said before that I get many enquiries for engine rebuilds that come to nothing... then discover that the enquirer no longer has the car!! Should I name and shame?!!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Quote from: "MattPerformance"Quote from: "andyhull"What kind of dealership allows sells cars with massive oil consumption ?
To be fair to car retailers/ dealers, how can they know if the engine is consuming a lot of oil? They can test drive the car (no smoke evident), rev the nuts off the engine (no smoke evident) and very often they'll get it serviced prior to sale (normally without checking the oil level first - why would they check it??!) so the oil level is right when they sell the car.
It is the unscrupulous people who sell their own cars on (or trade them in) that are at fault here because, let's face it, the reason they got rid of the car is because they knew it was using a load of oil and was about to fail. I know I work in the trade and I have (kind of) my own agenda on this matter, but I think it's very unfair on the car dealers who sell a car in good faith, having bought it in good faith to then be stomached with a big bill to repair an engine that was faulty. That said, they make a profit and that is why the law makes them responsible for the odd occasion that this kind of thing happens (certainly I agree that the consumer should not bear the cost but I just feel a bit sorry for the "dealer").
I have said before that I get many enquiries for engine rebuilds that come to nothing... then discover that the enquirer no longer has the car!! Should I name and shame?!!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Can see both sides of the coin here, but the fact they have also simply reset the ECU knowing the sensor is faulty ??? That smacks of either clueless or stalling for time. You are correct that they make money on the car, and thats why they give a warranty to encourage people buying them over and above book prices, but when they are obviously stalling for time ???
Also dont forget they said it was the tensioner seal causing the loss of oil !!!!!!! not in a million years sorry
As I said in my original post the dealer only had the car for a day before i bought it (admitedly I cant be 100% sure of this) so theres no way he could of known about oil consumption issue. When he told me what caused the EML I actualy said I wasnt too worried about it and that I just wanted the car back for now so I could drive it to check the oil issue. It would seem a bit pointless to get the sensor done if I have to try and return the car to him after a week because of the oil. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and he has been pretty co operative so far so I cant be too critical. Anyway, once ive got another 100 miles or so on the car ill see where the oil level is and let you all know how it goes. Thanks all again for advice and interest s:) :) s:)
Ok, as we all expected my engine is knackerini. After the cam chain tensioner oil seal was replaced and a 132 miles of driving the oil has dropped from maximum to about a fifth full. So its on with the unpleasent business of trying to return the car and get a full refund. Shame I cant get a refund from Toyota for the money i spent on having it serviced s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
What is the age and mileage of the car?
Bad news - hope the dealer is cooperative but you've been more than reasonable in letting them inspect the car and trying to solve the problem but it's clearly burning oil at a serious rate, so remember your consumer rights! Good luck.
A sad story, to be fair the dealer isn't going to commute a few hundred miles to assess oil use before selling it. Remember they aren't going to be experts with the MR2 either so could easily be mistaken that a reset will fix a sensor code.
They are a dealer and should take responsibility and accept a risk when selling cars. Some will be fine and they make a profit, others will not be fine and may destroy the profit from that car. It's a risk they have to accept, and it's how they deal with it after the sale which marks them out as a good dealer or bad.
You have been more than reasonable about this situation, and the dealer sounds like he's been quite co-operative, if only a little too relaxed in dealing with the issues. A mechanic could easily be fooled into wanting to believe the oil loss is from the tensioner but we have the benefit of experience on here. This is a service clubs like this provide that people probably don't realise.
Considering your reasonable behaviour, the dealers co-operation, and what we have experienced in the area of oil consumption here then we know the engine is in need of a stripdown and rebuild at least. I would suggest your best course of action is to talk to the dealer and point out due to the oil use you just can't trust or rely on the car in the way you would expect or need. It is really not fit for purpose and you reject the car expecting a full refund.
Take what you have learned now and use it to your advantage identifying and buying a better example elsewhere. Remember these cars are getting old anyway and the closer to £1000 the price is, the more likely they are going to need mechanical work.
Not getting old, becoming classic!
Thanks for the encouragement chaps. Ill send him an email tonight then give him a ring tomorrow. I do feel a bit sorry for him really because as you say, he couldnt have known about the issue before selling it but im pretty sure he's more able to afford the loss then I am.
Mattperformance; the car is a 2003 with 87000 miles.
How are you getting on?
Just a thought, assuming the car has been returned, would be helpful to post a pic and/or reg number so that anyone reading this won't end up buying it next! (Unless the engine has been sorted of course).
I was going to wait until I had more a more definate result but since you asked...
The dealer has thankfully agreed to take the car back and refund me, BUT he's said he needs to sell a car to get some funds in before he can do it. Maximum wait of two weeks. I know it sounds dodgy but I have to say he's been true to his word so far, if a little slow. He also said once he gets it back he'll put it through an auction as it is and see what he gets for it..unless some one on here wants to make him an offer?
Good idea on reg mightyquin, its LE03 OUG. Sable grey.
Well done!
Keep your hands on the V5.
Well sort of good news, at least he's not tried to say you can't have a refund or whatever. Of course some other poor sod will go through the same headache assuming another unsuspecting dealer buys the car at auction and sticks it on their forecourt!
Hopefully this hasn't put you off buying another MR2!
Just spoke to dealer and he said i can return car on saturday and get a full refund. I wont be breathing a sigh of relief until I actualy see the money in my account but im close to putting this sorry tale behind me. I must admit this experience has put me off buying another '2 a bit. For pure driving fun its the best car ive had but the whole piston oval/pre cat thing would play on my mind a lot if I got another. I should of done more research as I thought it only affected cars made before 2003 DOH! The best thing to come out of it though is that I found another great owners club forum. You've all been very helpful and supportive so i'll still be checking in from time to time and if someone from here is selling a well sorted '2 localy i'd be very interested...after Christmas
Matt on here (Mattperformance) sells cars with rebuilt engines, which might put your mind at ease a little regarding the engine failure issue, if you do decide to get one. I understand your concerns though, it's almost getting to the point where an engine rebuilt is to be accepted as a possible maintenance cost, although I still think, even allowing for that, they are good value. Or you could buy a cheap one with a broken engine and get it rebuilt, at least then you'll know it's good to last a while and it may even work out cheaper.
P.S. I know people keep on about how good Matt is, but that just shows that he IS really good.
Good advice from Bluecat.
I started looking for a small inexpensive s/h soft top and thought I'd get an MX5 or an MGF. Every MX5 I looked at had rotten sills and other body rust issues. I heard about the MGF head gasket problem and sure enough a car I almost bought suffered HGF the day before I was due to test drive it!
The mechanic I use suggested the MR2 - he didn't know about/warn me about the engine and pre cat issues but I did some research on the web and fortunately seem to have found a decent example (pre face lift) although I must admit I've yet to check the manifold to see if the pre cats have been taken out....
There's few cars out there which won't have some issue or other at this type of age. You're pretty much an expert on the MR2 now s:) :) s:) so use that to your advantage and look for another one, and enjoy it.