Ok, so if you don't want to hear about me raving on about the Elise again, I suggest you switch off now.
But, if you are interested........
Went to Hethel for their Scare Yourself Sensible Experience Extended yesterday. And what a good day it is.........
For £150, you get 2 15-20 mins sessions around their proving track, with proper tuition from the actual guys who developed the Elise (Mr McQueen. What a legend). Went out initially with a guy some of you have heard of, the Aussie Hyla Breese. I have been out with this guy before and he is a bit good and a very nice fella to boot. Intially went out in a 111S that was a temporary car, as the other one had had its wheels smashed by Hyla himself earlier that morning!!! Anyway, went out, sort of already knew the track as I have been out on it before. Started off at a relatively quick pace, but had to get used to a new section of the track which was a slalom on the back straight, which normally, you would be touching the best part of 130mph on. But after a couple of laps, kinda got the idea. Went well and got plenty of praise from Hyla. The missus, Liz, also went out, but in a standard 120bhp and I can't remember when she last looked so breathless........ s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Waited for everyone else to go out and come back and then we were off again, but this time, I was out in the new 111R. Now, as some of you will remember, I have already driven one of these on the road for a brief time at their launch, and I was VERY impressed by it. But, this time, I could really try the car out. And Hyla just let me have the reigns and go for it. And BOY, did I go for it. WHAT A CAR!!!! That engine transforms the Elise. Its just breaths and breaths and breaths and the second kick at 6K rpm is nothing short of sensational. The brakes we like hitting a brick wall, if not as "friendly" at high speeds as the non-servoed "lesser" cars and the handling defies belief. I really gunned it and it was just fantastic. And it was all over just way too quickly.
I had a quick chat with Hyla after the drive and he said (wait for it. Blow my own trumpet time) that pretty much everything I did was technically spot on, I was quick and very accurate and I gave him a lot of confidence, hence he just let me get on with it as opposed to have to correct people and coach them as he would do with most others. He said he was impressed with my relaxed nature and the confidence I gave him.
How chuffed was I? s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Anyway, had to hang on again and then go out for a couple of "hot" laps. I again went out with Hyla and just when you think you were going fast and could actually drive a little, he goes and shows off and takes it to a whole new level!!! He was sideways the whole wy round the track and in some of the high speed corners a fair bit quicker than me. The grip on these cars is incredible. Great fun, but he did say that it isn't that difficult to do and someone like me with a little practice could be doing it in about 30mins!!! Wish I could have tried! I did get it sideways once.........
Oh, and Liz jsut loved it! Her first experience of any sort of an Elise and she was so glad they lived up to her expectations too. She was quite quick too. I had trouble getting past her on a couple of corners. Not bad for someone who self proclaimed she was pissing her pants!!!
Anyway, great day, great people, ASTONISHING car and I so, so want one.
Check it out for yourselves. I would highly recommend it...........
So when are you trading up to a 111R then? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: You know it makes sense.
nah no boot space,
Quote from: "odub"nah no boot space,
The 2 has not got a great amount either; you could live with that probelm I bet s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
It has more than a Mk3 roadster.
(I was only joking)
It's one of the critics always levelled at the mr2 but never at the Elise.
Should have included a smile.
Quote from: "juansolo"So when are you trading up to a 111R then? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: You know it makes sense.
Juan, if I could, I would! Seriously, its the only car I would realistically trade in the 2 for. But, at the best part of 30 grand still, not really an option right yet.......
Might look into getting an S1 160 though!!! Just within reach I reckon.......... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "odub"nah no boot space,
Heh heh................. s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Its a load of bull to be honest. Its not actually that bad and probably better than the 2 in that case. Anyway, its a sports car. Who cares?!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:? :? s:? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "juansolo"So when are you trading up to a 111R then? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: You know it makes sense.
Juan, if I could, I would! Seriously, its the only car I would realistically trade in the 2 for. But, at the best part of 30 grand still, not really an option right yet.......
Might look into getting an S1 160 though!!! Just within reach I reckon.......... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Personally if I was on a budget I'd get the best boggo S1 I could find for the most reasonable money, stick Yokonovas on it and enjoy. If you want to stick with a boggo factory car and want more power; try and get a good S1 S135 or one of the first fifty S1 S160's that were made. S135 would be my choice and I still have first refusal on one if I can ever talk my brother into selling it.
If you want an S2 car of some description, buy a nearly new VX220 and just leave it be. Bloody good car those things.
I'm still pondering a move to a S1 or S2 Elise. Would depend on budget and what I wanted to do with it.
If I went the S2 route, it would stay pretty boggo standard due to funds. If I went the S1, it might be open for a bit more fettling s;) ;) s;)
Would mean the '2 would have to go and I'd get a daily runner as well. All academic seeing as though I can't seriously think about it until I have a garage, which hopefully won't be too far away. Now, if I can get it all in time for next summer, I could be saying goodbye to the '2 s:cry: :cry: s:cry: but hellllooooo to the Elise s;) ;) s;)
Very tempting though, and posts like this don't help one bit s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
It would be the insurance and servicing costs that would hold me back. s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Darth Paul"It would be the insurance and servicing costs that would hold me back. s:? :? s:?
At least there are no pre-cats to explode s;) ;) s;) heh..
I'd love a VX220 turbo personally, though I'm not sure I'd physically fit in one.. and they are a tad out of my pricerange s:) :) s:) (by about £20k at the moment.. heh s:) :) s:) )
One day.. or maybe there'll be something better out there by then s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "Darth Paul"It would be the insurance and servicing costs that would hold me back. s:? :? s:?
Thought about that, so looked into it. I would only be paying £150 more on my insurance than I already am on an S1 (standard) and the servicing can be done at a specialist for half the price of Lotus and do just as good a job.
They are runnable..........
Christ, I am even convincing myself here!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:? :? s:? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "juansolo"So when are you trading up to a 111R then? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: You know it makes sense.
Juan, if I could, I would! Seriously, its the only car I would realistically trade in the 2 for. But, at the best part of 30 grand still, not really an option right yet.......
Might look into getting an S1 160 though!!! Just within reach I reckon.......... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Personally if I was on a budget I'd get the best boggo S1 I could find for the most reasonable money, stick Yokonovas on it and enjoy. If you want to stick with a boggo factory car and want more power; try and get a good S1 S135 or one of the first fifty S1 S160's that were made. S135 would be my choice and I still have first refusal on one if I can ever talk my brother into selling it.
If you want an S2 car of some description, buy a nearly new VX220 and just leave it be. Bloody good car those things.
These are all routes I have thought about (especially the XV route) and they are all valid. Even my missus was thinking about how we could afford it while we were waiting for the instructor rides yesterday!
I think a 135 S1 would be a good route to go. Becoming affordable and hopefully should be enough around.
I'd go for a VX220, I personally think they look better than the elise, i don't mind the badge one little bit, but i like their second hand price much.
You know series 2 Elise's are not as expensive as you might think..I was surprised m http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/ (http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/) m look in the used cars, there's some nice S2's there for £17,000 and a 111S for £22k.
I had a look at a S2 135R a few weeks back, which was £27,000 honestly didn't do a lot for me. Also had a look at a VX, the dealer no joke called me 3 times a day for a week, could have ahd that for silly money. Again really didn't do much for me, felt very old and tired after a few hundred miles.
Quote from: "MRMike"Also had a look at a VX, the dealer no joke called me 3 times a day for a week, could have ahd that for silly money.
No way! Last time I tried to get a test drive in one it took me a good fortnight of hounding them before I even got to speak to a salesman! s:cry: :cry: s:cry: (Toyota, Rover and Jeep were all the same - only Mazda managed to speak to me on the same day) Even when I did get to speak to a salesman I couldn't get a testdrive - Vauxhall "couldn't get one in", Toyota sold their demo car the morning I turned up to drive it (!) and Rover .. well the car was pants s:) :) s:)
</rant> s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "odub"I'd go for a VX220, I personally think they look better than the elise, i don't mind the badge one little bit, but i like their second hand price much.
Kinda along the same lines personally. I think I like the look of the Lotus a little more, but the price of the XV is VERY attractive........
yeah thats the thing vx220s
Just had a quick look on autotraders
VX220
2 years old 20K miles
Leather + hardtop
For around 15K. Thats not bad at all.
Quote from: "MRMike"You know series 2 Elise's are not as expensive as you might think..I was surprised m http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/ (http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/) m look in the used cars, there's some nice S2's there for £17,000 and a 111S for £22k.
I had a look at a S2 135R a few weeks back, which was £27,000 honestly didn't do a lot for me. Also had a look at a VX, the dealer no joke called me 3 times a day for a week, could have ahd that for silly money. Again really didn't do much for me, felt very old and tired after a few hundred miles.
Mike, its still 22K I don't have!!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I was thinking a little cheaper........
But I kinda know what you mean about it feeling "tired". The ones we drove yesterday looked like a kicked dog and they only had 5-6K on the clock. But, no matter what you think of them looks wise, you really, really can't beat the drive. If a car went any better than an Elise, I wouldn't care if it looked like a housebrick, I would still want one!!!!
Its a personal thing to be honest, but I couldn't give a monkeys about looks at all if I am after a thrilling drive. I would have an Evo VIII tomorrow, but that looks like its been in a fight with Halfords! The Skyline is pug ugly, but it goes like stink!
Like I said, just my opinion. I don't think the 2 looks all that either. Its nice enough, but its the drive I bought it for.
Now, if I was Mr Middleoftheroad, then maybe I would go for something a little more good looking that might entertain me a little, like an Alfa GTV or something. Each to their own I suppose........
But I know where you are coming from.......they are not the best built cars in the world.......
Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "MRMike"You know series 2 Elise's are not as expensive as you might think..I was surprised m http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/ (http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/) m look in the used cars, there's some nice S2's there for £17,000 and a 111S for £22k.
I had a look at a S2 135R a few weeks back, which was £27,000 honestly didn't do a lot for me. Also had a look at a VX, the dealer no joke called me 3 times a day for a week, could have ahd that for silly money. Again really didn't do much for me, felt very old and tired after a few hundred miles.
But I kinda know what you mean about it feeling "tired". The ones we drove yesterday looked like a kicked dog and they only had 5-6K on the clock. But, no matter what you think of them looks wise, you really, really can't beat the drive. If a car went any better than an Elise, I wouldn't care if it looked like a housebrick, I would still want one!!!!
I don't know why they look so tired really, all the VX's I've looked at look and feel really rough. The plastic seems to mark easier than the 2's, and the gearbox feels awfull. However they are a a great drive like you said and you'd be hard pushed to beat the driving experience for the money. I'm sure there must be some good un's around somewhere.
I know what you mean about buying cars for the drive, I'm in love with everything about the S2000, but I just can't love the handling which is keeping me from getting one. (Plus the misses) And the more I read, the less and less i like them.
Anyways i'm waffling and this is in general!
I retryed an S2000 this saturday, and I must say that when I came back in my (non stock) MR, I liked it more :-) :-) :-)
Quote from: "Darth Paul"It would be the insurance and servicing costs that would hold me back. s:? :? s:?
Insurance is s:cry: :cry: s:cry: Servicing isn't bad really. It's a Rover K-Series, nothing special. Use the right stuff on it and you can DIY service it.
Quote from: "John Woodward"I think a 135 S1 would be a good route to go. Becoming affordable and hopefully should be enough around.
They only made 75 s:( :( s:( and certainly a few of them have been stacked.
Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "odub"I'd go for a VX220, I personally think they look better than the elise, i don't mind the badge one little bit, but i like their second hand price much.
Kinda along the same lines personally. I think I like the look of the Lotus a little more, but the price of the XV is VERY attractive........
...and other than the Toyota engined one, it has a better engine.
Personally I'd have the VX every time. I'd have the turbo over the 111R too.
Quote from: "John Woodward"Like I said, just my opinion. I don't think the 2 looks all that either.
I'm surprised as I think the 2 looks really nice s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
There are better looking cars inthe cab segment.
S2000, Elise, Speedster...
Yeah i really like the way the 2 looks as well, but like John said I bought it for how it handled above all.
If you buy a car for its looks I reckon, over time they will fade, but if you buy one for how it drives, everytime you get in you'll smile. Which is exactly how i still feel about the girlfriend, er ...2! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "MRMike"Yeah i really like the way the 2 looks as well, but like John said I bought it for how it handled above all.
If you buy a car for its looks I reckon, over time they will fade, but if you buy one for how it drives, everytime you get in you'll smile. Which is exactly how i still feel about the girlfriend, er ...2! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I agree but I could not buy a motor that drives brilliantly but looks awefull s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "heathstimpson"s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I agree but I could not buy a motor that drives brilliantly but looks awefull s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I would *pats westfield*
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "heathstimpson"s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I agree but I could not buy a motor that drives brilliantly but looks awefull s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I would *pats westfield*
Westfields aren't too bad really.
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "John Woodward"Like I said, just my opinion. I don't think the 2 looks all that either.
I'm surprised as I think the 2 looks really nice s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Don't get me wrong. I do like it, but I think there is better out there. I would even go as to say (Lord, smite me down with furious wrath) that the Beemer Z4 is a nicer looking car than the 2!!! And I HATE Beemers!
Maybe I was a little down on the looks, but they are not a priority. I like the 2, but its not what I bought it for.
Am I making sense? s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "MRMike"Yeah i really like the way the 2 looks as well, but like John said I bought it for how it handled above all.
If you buy a car for its looks I reckon, over time they will fade, but if you buy one for how it drives, everytime you get in you'll smile. Which is exactly how i still feel about the girlfriend, er ...2! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I agree but I could not buy a motor that drives brilliantly but looks awefull s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Depends. I think the Evo looks awful (WAY to Chav), but there are few on here that wouldn't have one if they were give one eh? s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
You do have a point, but its all about degrees of "awfulness"..........
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "odub"I'd go for a VX220, I personally think they look better than the elise, i don't mind the badge one little bit, but i like their second hand price much.
Kinda along the same lines personally. I think I like the look of the Lotus a little more, but the price of the XV is VERY attractive........
...and other than the Toyota engined one, it has a better engine.
Personally I'd have the VX every time. I'd have the turbo over the 111R too.
Yeah, been out in the Turbo VX at Motordrive just after the launch and my god what a car!!!! VEry impressed with it and hopefully the price on those will come down enough soon. Always going to be its downfall over the Elise, but always good for us punters........ s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Mind you, the 111R IS astonishing and I would definately put it up there with the VXT. That second kick and the fact that it is normalliy aspirated is always going to be a winner for me. Not that I don't like Turbos. Just I always worry about that extra mechanical burden and if it goes pop, then look out for the BIG expense. And there is something so much nicer about the linear responses of a non-turbo car (although the 111R completely disproves that!!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"I think a 135 S1 would be a good route to go. Becoming affordable and hopefully should be enough around.
They only made 75 s:( :( s:( and certainly a few of them have been stacked.
Bugger!! And here is me thinking there were about 200!!!! Oh well, good ones are going to be keep their prices then I would reckon. Tick that one off the list........arse!!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
Quote from: "MRMike"Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "MRMike"You know series 2 Elise's are not as expensive as you might think..I was surprised m http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/ (http://www.christopherneil.co.uk/) m look in the used cars, there's some nice S2's there for £17,000 and a 111S for £22k.
I had a look at a S2 135R a few weeks back, which was £27,000 honestly didn't do a lot for me. Also had a look at a VX, the dealer no joke called me 3 times a day for a week, could have ahd that for silly money. Again really didn't do much for me, felt very old and tired after a few hundred miles.
But I kinda know what you mean about it feeling "tired". The ones we drove yesterday looked like a kicked dog and they only had 5-6K on the clock. But, no matter what you think of them looks wise, you really, really can't beat the drive. If a car went any better than an Elise, I wouldn't care if it looked like a housebrick, I would still want one!!!!
The NEW S2K is supposed to be a cracker and they have sorted the handling to a much more forgiving car now. More a long the lines of a slightly snappier Boxter. If you are in the market for a new one, don't rule it out. I would have one!
I don't know why they look so tired really, all the VX's I've looked at look and feel really rough. The plastic seems to mark easier than the 2's, and the gearbox feels awfull. However they are a a great drive like you said and you'd be hard pushed to beat the driving experience for the money. I'm sure there must be some good un's around somewhere.
I know what you mean about buying cars for the drive, I'm in love with everything about the S2000, but I just can't love the handling which is keeping me from getting one. (Plus the misses) And the more I read, the less and less i like them.
Anyways i'm waffling and this is in general!
Quote from: "John Woodward"Am I making sense? s:? :? s:?
You were, right up until you started talking about Z4's being nice looking cars s;) ;) s;) s:) :) s:)
Quote...the Beemer Z4 is a nicer looking car than the 2!!!
Both the Z3 and Z4 are total design failures in my book. They certainly wouldn't pass muster with Chapman. BMW can do far better and hopefully they will, next time around.
In the price range we're talking about, however, the Spyder doesn't have a lot of competition. The S2000 and Boxster both compete with the 2 for looks but are priced a full rank or two higher up the chart. I'm rather concerned about what's been said here regarding the Elise, though. Still typical Lotus build quality, then.
Quote from: "aaronjb"Quote from: "John Woodward"Am I making sense? s:? :? s:?
You were, right up until you started talking about Z4's being nice looking cars s;) ;) s;) s:) :) s:)
I wouldn't buy one!!!! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "southerneditor"Quote...the Beemer Z4 is a nicer looking car than the 2!!!
Both the Z3 and Z4 are total design failures in my book. They certainly wouldn't pass muster with Chapman. BMW can do far better and hopefully they will, next time around.
In the price range we're talking about, however, the Spyder doesn't have a lot of competition. The S2000 and Boxster both compete with the 2 for looks but are priced a full rank or two higher up the chart. I'm rather concerned about what's been said here regarding the Elise, though. Still typical Lotus build quality, then.
I didn't say the Z4 was a design classic. I just thought that it wasn't bad. To be fair, when I saw the pictures before launch, I nearly choked thinking it was pig ugly. But, my neighbour bought one not long after and to be honest, in the flesh, close up, its actually a suprisingly handsome, if not that well proportioned car. I wouldn't have one at all, cos 1) they are not supposed to be THAT good and 2) its a BMW for goodness sake. What do you take me for?!!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: But is not too bad........
Quote from: "southerneditor"Quote...the Beemer Z4 is a nicer looking car than the 2!!!
Both the Z3 and Z4 are total design failures in my book. They certainly wouldn't pass muster with Chapman. BMW can do far better and hopefully they will, next time around.
In the price range we're talking about, however, the Spyder doesn't have a lot of competition. The S2000 and Boxster both compete with the 2 for looks but are priced a full rank or two higher up the chart. I'm rather concerned about what's been said here regarding the Elise, though. Still typical Lotus build quality, then.
I didn't say the Z4 was a design classic. I just thought that it wasn't bad. To be fair, when I saw the pictures before launch, I nearly choked thinking it was pig ugly. But, my neighbour bought one not long after and to be honest, in the flesh, close up, its actually a suprisingly handsome, if not that well proportioned car. I wouldn't have one at all, cos 1) they are not supposed to be THAT good and 2) its a BMW for goodness sake. What do you take me for?!!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: But is not too bad........
As for the build quality of the Elise, to be fair, the only ones I have driven have been hammered into the ground, taking a LOT of punishment, so it wouldn't supsrise me if things started to fall off and so on. And lets face it, there isn't THAT much in the cockpit to fall off or break is there, so I wouldn't let it put me off buying one. I would just look after it a bit!!!
Whoops. Can someone delete the first reply above please? Sausage fingers......... s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
I think the Z4's alright, me boss has a 2.5 one and I wouldn't say no. They only look right in black though.
Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"I think a 135 S1 would be a good route to go. Becoming affordable and hopefully should be enough around.
They only made 75 s:( :( s:( and certainly a few of them have been stacked.
Bugger!! And here is me thinking there were about 200!!!! Oh well, good ones are going to be keep their prices then I would reckon. Tick that one off the list........arse!!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
You'd be surprised. He was offered 10.5k for it p/x on a Boxster S. Naturally he told them where to go. But I would expect to get a minter like his for £13-14k absolute tops.
Quote from: "John Woodward"The NEW S2K is supposed to be a cracker and they have sorted the handling to a much more forgiving car now.
There was nothing wrong with the handling of the original S2k. Same goes for the S1 Elise. All they do to make them more forgiving is reduce front end grip and / or increase it at the rear to make it understeer. Which sucks.
Nothing a bit of driver training couldn't have fixed as ALL of the issues with those cars were driver related. But no, people go on forums after stacking their S2K/Elise complaining that the car is dangerous, that the car 'just snapped', etc causing Honda and Lotus to 'fix' the problem. Pisses me right off as I really hate understeer but people wont admit that they ran out of talent. Must be the cars fault because I'm a great driver... yadda yadda....
Rant over.
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"The NEW S2K is supposed to be a cracker and they have sorted the handling to a much more forgiving car now.
There was nothing wrong with the handling of the original S2k. Same goes for the S1 Elise. All they do to make them more forgiving is reduce front end grip and / or increase it at the rear to make it understeer. Which sucks.
Nothing a bit of driver training couldn't have fixed as ALL of the issues with those cars were driver related. But no, people go on forums after stacking their S2K/Elise complaining that the car is dangerous, that the car 'just snapped', etc causing Honda and Lotus to 'fix' the problem. Pisses me right off as I really hate understeer but people wont admit that they ran out of talent. Must be the cars fault because I'm a great driver... yadda yadda....
Rant over.
Sorry..I don't really agree. Can't really comment about the Elise, but in terms of the S2000, there is a difference between progressive oversteer and the 'snappy' handling the previous S2000 had. I've had a mate who really was an excellent driver having been sponsored by Red bull during his Karting years, and when he stuffed his S2k it definitely wansn't for lack of talent.
I take your point that some of these handling issues are blown out of proportion IE Audi TT. But from personal experience I think the S2000 did have a handling problem. Fair enough a few might not have been used to a mid engine, RWD powerful car like that, but I've driven quite a number of powerful cars and the S2000 handling on the 01 car scared me because I simply did not know what it was doing. This is exacerbated by the numb steering as well. The 04 is much bettter in this respect, and to my senses doesn't understeer anymore than the original, which itself I thought was more understeery than the 2.
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"I think a 135 S1 would be a good route to go. Becoming affordable and hopefully should be enough around.
They only made 75 s:( :( s:( and certainly a few of them have been stacked.
Bugger!! And here is me thinking there were about 200!!!! Oh well, good ones are going to be keep their prices then I would reckon. Tick that one off the list........arse!!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil:
You'd be surprised. He was offered 10.5k for it p/x on a Boxster S. Naturally he told them where to go. But I would expect to get a minter like his for £13-14k absolute tops.
Oh crap!!! Don't say that!!!!
Right where is that bookmark for Autotrader........ s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"The NEW S2K is supposed to be a cracker and they have sorted the handling to a much more forgiving car now.
There was nothing wrong with the handling of the original S2k. Same goes for the S1 Elise. All they do to make them more forgiving is reduce front end grip and / or increase it at the rear to make it understeer. Which sucks.
Nothing a bit of driver training couldn't have fixed as ALL of the issues with those cars were driver related. But no, people go on forums after stacking their S2K/Elise complaining that the car is dangerous, that the car 'just snapped', etc causing Honda and Lotus to 'fix' the problem. Pisses me right off as I really hate understeer but people wont admit that they ran out of talent. Must be the cars fault because I'm a great driver... yadda yadda....
Rant over.
No, I am with you 99% of the way with that. Only downside is that the S2K WAS really skittish. My mate, a former TVR Tuscan racer stuffed his royally on a roundabout at relatively slow speeds, saying that the thing just went away from him even though the car felt like it had loads of grip left. And this is coming from probably one of the snappiest cars in history (the Tuscan).
I completely agree with pretty much all of what you are saying, but maybe there is a case to call on the S2K that it was a little dangerous at the speeds that the car should have been well designed for.
And as for dilaing out the understeer on the Elise, Hyla Breeze himself said they had corrected that on 111R and by god, did he prove it by going round the track sideways at will really. I can kind of believe it too cos I was going some myself and even I got the rear to jump out. But not a hint of understeer. The 111S I drove before certainly had a little in it..........
Never driven an S1, so can't really comment.
Quote from: "MRMike"Sorry..I don't really agree. Can't really comment about the Elise, but in terms of the S2000, there is a difference between progressive oversteer and the 'snappy' handling the previous S2000 had. I've had a mate who really was an excellent driver having been sponsored by Red bull during his Karting years, and when he stuffed his S2k it definitely wansn't for lack of talent.
I take your point that some of these handling issues are blown out of proportion IE Audi TT. But from personal experience I think the S2000 did have a handling problem. Fair enough a few might not have been used to a mid engine, RWD powerful car like that, but I've driven quite a number of powerful cars and the S2000 handling on the 01 car scared me because I simply did not know what it was doing. This is exacerbated by the numb steering as well. The 04 is much bettter in this respect, and to my senses doesn't understeer anymore than the original, which itself I thought was more understeery than the 2.
I take your point but I would also say that a kart is a hell of a lot easier to gather up than an S2K or an Elise. The initial post may have also been a little bit more harsh than I intended also... s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "John Woodward"Oh crap!!! Don't say that!!!!
Right where is that bookmark for Autotrader........ s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
They're an old car now and everyone wants a Mk2. Mk1 prices have really taken a pasting.
As for the Hyla comment *thumbs up* 111R then or a Mk1 S135 s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "juansolo"Quote from: "John Woodward"Oh crap!!! Don't say that!!!!
Right where is that bookmark for Autotrader........ s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
They're an old car now and everyone wants a Mk2. Mk1 prices have really taken a pasting.
As for the Hyla comment *thumbs up* 111R then or a Mk1 S135 s:D :D s:D
Stop bloody tempting me!!!!! s:evil: :evil: s:evil: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I think I might have to look for the latter..........