Hi Guys,
I've got other issues with the car to sort but, on cold start I noticed black soot firing out of the exhaust on to my driveway, little blobs of it that come out with the condensation.
The car does smell rich on cold start, once warm it seems to be ok, could this be a sign of an over-rich condition?
I've cleaned the MAF only recently, maybe it needs to clear the exhaust out, not sure.
Thanks,
Steve
Probanly needs an Italian Tune up s:) :) s:)
Are the O2 sensors showing ok voltages etc?
Are the O2 sensors genuine denso or cheap chinese crap? Juries out on the chinese ones right now.
Thanks for the replies.
Lol it probably does need a good run, I haven't really used it much since buying as I haven't had chance and have been worried about the oil issue.
Previous owner fitted a new genuine Denso on bank 1, bank 2 and 3 are the original old ones. I pulled bank two and wire brushed, TBH didn't 'look' bad. Haven't checked the post cat. does anyone know what voltages they should show and at what time? I did take a look at live data on the car but wasn't sure what the banks should show.
I took the car out and warmed it up to do a diagnostic test on it. It's still randomly hesitant before 3k RPM on part throttle.
It smells way too rich, I've noticed this since I got the car, if I sit still in it with it running and the roof down it just smells of fuel (as if I didn't already have enough problems to deal with).
Here are the stats I collected when at running temperature:
Short Trim 1 > 0 to -2ish
Short Trim 2 > 0 to -2ish
Long Trim 1 > -18.8 pretty solid
Long Trim 2 > -23.4 pretty solid
Not sure why the long trims are telling the ECU the car is running so rich? If I am right, this shouldn't be anywhere near this, especially as ST's are only 0 to -2ish?
O2B1S1 > 0.04 jumping to 0.8 and back to .04ish quickly (this sensor looks new and I have a denso packet so must be the one changed, assume seller was trying to fix it running rich)
O2B2S1 > 0.04 jumping to 0.8 and back to .04ish quickly (this sensor looks old, I cleaned it up with a wire brush)
O2B1S2 > 0.04 to 0.10 > looks like the cat is doing it's job at a guess, so hopefully not blocked (not investigated this sensor, as AFAIK the ECU shouldn't really use this to fuel)
So the above roughly tells me everything checks out.
Short Trim Bank 1 Sensor 1 > 2 to 3
Short Trim Bank 2 Sensor 1 > 0.8 to 4.7
Short Trim Bank 1 Sensor 2 > 99.2 constant (post cat so assume it doesn't measure or effect fuelling and just reports the default value)
MAF on tickover shows 2.46 to 3 or so, so it's varying from 2.46 up the range to 3 and back down. I am not familiar with the MAF value on this car, however, this reading seems a little low, I'd have normally thought it should be around 5 or so. That might tell me the MAF is weak or on it's way out I guess (if that number is not normal for an MR2 MAF).
Seems to me like my Long Trims are waaaaay too low. And from these results I am not sure what is causing it. I'd have expected them to be in the -5 range max. The ECU obviously thinks the car is running super rich and trying to trim back, but still not working.
So what the hell could it be? Other than some monkey remapped the ECU.
I guess you haven't fixed the oil drinking problem yet? Guess where it's going! Effectively its unmetered fuel that the O2's are trying to compensate for.
Ok, so the TPS isn't very responsive, and *could* be an issue, if I tap the throttle no change in reading (11 same as idle), if I blip the throttle half way, it doubles, WOT, it goes to the same figure as just tapping the throttle.
It could be my reader, but I am pretty sure it updates pretty speedily, on other cars.
The other alarm bell that's ringing for me is reading the other thread you've been active on, the car was over-boosting due to a faulty pressure reducing valve in the waste gate line.
I can't help but think the engine has suffered some very serious abuse.
Quote from: "SteveJ"I guess you haven't fixed the oil drinking problem yet? Guess where it's going! Effectively its unmetered fuel that the O2's are trying to compensate for.
I haven't had chance to pull the engine and rebuild it in the past few days no s:D :D s:D
But that doesn't make sense, why would that make the engine run rich? It should run lean if that were the case, as it's pulling the fuel back when extra fuel isn't going in. And why would the exhaust smell of fuel and be very sooty? It would smell of oil and be smoking all the time even on tickover.
RE the oil usage, I really haven't used the car any length of time to determine how much it is using in my ownership, something I can check now I've reset the counter and done an oil change.
Quote from: "stevex"Ok, so the TPS isn't very responsive, and *could* be an issue, if I tap the throttle no change in reading (11 same as idle), if I blip the throttle half way, it doubles, WOT, it goes to the same figure as just tapping the throttle.
It could be my reader, but I am pretty sure it updates pretty speedily, on other cars.
The TPS is intercepted by the TTE piggy-back and feeds a false figure to the stock ECU which you are seeing on your OBDII reader.
Aha got it thanks.
Quote from: "stevex"Quote from: "SteveJ"I guess you haven't fixed the oil drinking problem yet? Guess where it's going! Effectively its unmetered fuel that the O2's are trying to compensate for.
I haven't had chance to pull the engine and rebuild it in the past few days no s:D :D s:D
But that doesn't make sense, why would that make the engine run rich? It should run lean if that were the case, as it's pulling the fuel back when extra fuel isn't going in. And why would the exhaust smell of fuel and be very sooty? It would smell of oil and be smoking all the time even on tickover.
RE the oil usage, I really haven't used the car any length of time to determine how much it is using in my ownership, something I can check now I've reset the counter and done an oil change.
Do you know what fully-synth oil that's burned in the engine and then fed through a catalytic converter smells like? Guess what!
Quote from: "SteveJ"The other alarm bell that's ringing for me is reading the other thread you've been active on, the car was over-boosting due to a faulty pressure reducing valve in the waste gate line.
I can't help but think the engine has suffered some very serious abuse.
Yep, something the previous owner neglected to tell me when I asked specifically about /sigh, but we've been there, done that.
Quote from: "SteveJ"Quote from: "stevex"Quote from: "SteveJ"I guess you haven't fixed the oil drinking problem yet? Guess where it's going! Effectively its unmetered fuel that the O2's are trying to compensate for.
I haven't had chance to pull the engine and rebuild it in the past few days no s:D :D s:D
But that doesn't make sense, why would that make the engine run rich? It should run lean if that were the case, as it's pulling the fuel back when extra fuel isn't going in. And why would the exhaust smell of fuel and be very sooty? It would smell of oil and be smoking all the time even on tickover.
RE the oil usage, I really haven't used the car any length of time to determine how much it is using in my ownership, something I can check now I've reset the counter and done an oil change.
Do you know what fully-synth oil that's burned in the engine and then fed through a catalytic converter smells like? Guess what!
Hmm, never experienced that, just smells like neat fuel, a bit like when I started up my track car with no cat on it.
Reset the ECU and see what happens - might be the engine has gone to richen up the mixture due to bad O2 sensors on the long term trim but its not been reset etc - ECU fuse out for 20 minutes should do it.
Quote from: "m1tch"Reset the ECU and see what happens - might be the engine has gone to richen up the mixture due to bad O2 sensors on the long term trim but its not been reset etc - ECU fuse out for 20 minutes should do it.
Thanks I'll give it a try.
Also looking at the MAF, I am used to a 5.5 litre, which shows from experience 5+ at idle. Of course this is a 1.8, so perhaps this should be metering more like 2 grams per second at idle rather than it's 2.4-3. All the readings were at idle, and with the engine at running temp.
mine was doing this
m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo) m
so I'm doing this
m http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... 11307f8ca1 (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=62697&sid=82025310e5870a4d96f7cd11307f8ca1) m
Quote from: "ilovejapcrap"mine was doing this
m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo) m
so I'm doing this
m http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... 11307f8ca1 (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=62697&sid=82025310e5870a4d96f7cd11307f8ca1) m
Bloody hell now that is smoke! Nice progress by the way s:) :) s:)
That's the weird thing, this car doesn't smoke at startup, idle, under load, on rundown, only a puff if the car is warmed up and you rev it to about 4k and let off.
The previous owners claim of 1 litre per 250 miles of driving just seems odd. I've seen oil burning cars before, and hence I bought this one as there was no obvious sign of burning oil. The more interesting thing however is that the oil return feed to the sump is leaking, it's soaked down there so I am going to replace it when I can get my hands on some pipe and time to get it up and change it (probably at the weekend when I drop the oil again). Also there is misting I noticed near the oil filler car, had a look around the back and can't see where it's coming from.
When I spoke to Matthew at Rogue, he said all 1zz's burn oil and have oil misting on the tops of the pistons, he's yet to see one that doesn't. Maybe I will get lucky and fix these other issues that will help the consumption (again need to use it really to test it myself). But it is loosing oil for sure.
Anyhow, the rich thing is definitely fuel, the small puff that comes out when hot, at idle and reving smells like burning oil not fuel.
It's entirely likely that the car has been running rich for ages, and no one has sorted it, that in itself has probably led to premature ring wear.
Whether or not I rebuild or how I move forward, there is absolutely no point in fitting another motor with the same ancillaries and running rich, so if possible I'd like to troubleshoot it now and come to a conclusion.
Cheers.
Quote from: "stevex"Quote from: "ilovejapcrap"mine was doing this
m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo) m
so I'm doing this
m http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... 11307f8ca1 (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=62697&sid=82025310e5870a4d96f7cd11307f8ca1) m
Bloody hell now that is smoke! Nice progress by the way s:) :) s:)
That's the weird thing, this car doesn't smoke at startup, idle, under load, on rundown, only a puff if the car is warmed up and you rev it to about 4k and let off.
The previous owners claim of 1 litre per 250 miles of driving just seems odd. I've seen oil burning cars before, and hence I bought this one as there was no obvious sign of burning oil. The more interesting thing however is that the oil return feed to the sump is leaking, it's soaked down there so I am going to replace it when I can get my hands on some pipe and time to get it up and change it (probably at the weekend when I drop the oil again). Also there is misting I noticed near the oil filler car, had a look around the back and can't see where it's coming from.
When I spoke to Matthew at Rogue, he said all 1zz's burn oil and have oil misting on the tops of the pistons, he's yet to see one that doesn't. Maybe I will get lucky and fix these other issues that will help the consumption (again need to use it really to test it myself). But it is loosing oil for sure.
Anyhow, the rich thing is definitely fuel, the small puff that comes out when hot, at idle and reving smells like burning oil not fuel.
It's entirely likely that the car has been running rich for ages, and no one has sorted it, that in itself has probably led to premature ring wear.
Whether or not I rebuild or how I move forward, there is absolutely no point in fitting another motor with the same ancillaries and running rich, so if possible I'd like to troubleshoot it now and come to a conclusion.
Cheers.
well when I stripped mine one thing I did find is the intake when it connects to the engine, the rubber gasket was rock solid, I suspect may have been letting in a very small amount of air? (very very small) maybe replace with a new one that still feels like rubber and a good seal ?
Thanks for the info, that sure is an option. I went out and let it warm up again, I don't have any fault codes, but interestingly I checked pending codes and it has P0172 - Bank1 too rich.
The MAF seems possibly suspect. On tickover at 770RPM, which was pretty solid give or take 20rpm, the MAF was showing 2.4-3.2 gp/s.
I added MAF and RPM to a custom data set and followed it on the graph, when the RPM increased a little at tickover the MAF didn't follow suit, sometimes went down, when RPM was say ticking around 770, the MAF spiked to 3.2 or sometimes more.
Again, could be accuracy of the reporting or could be an issue. I don't have time to play with it any more as I have other things to take car of, but, I will attempt to reset the ECU at some point to see if the long term FT's come down, but with that code pending I suspect it won't and a sensor is likely at fault.
The car is indeed massively overfueling, with LTFT of -23 the added stft of -2 makes that -25 total trim which sets off P0172.
Resetting the ecu will stop the overfueling until it catches up and it'll be back to how it is within 20 mins of driving .
Smoke on overrun points to valves, so there's some evidence to suggest the seals weren't done as stated.
Idle speed is spot on.
TTE uses stock maf and airbox so can't imagine the MAF readings are being altered by the piggyback. Also not sure why the piggyback would adjust the tps signal either.
Unless Toyota built in their own open look trick in the TTE piggyback s:) :) s:)
Piggyback will be adding fuel, but not at idle. So it's not (just) that.
I'd remove the boost controller anyway at this point.
Injectors could be leaking. Or one. You said one bore was particularly washed.
That's interesting, thanks for the info and help - it's appreciated.
The MAF was fouled when I cleaned it, the AIT sensor was gunked up on the back, that'll be the backwash from the turbo when it vents back to the filter area I guess. Also one of the wires and resistors had a grey appearance. They looked clean when I refitted, but maybe I didn't leave the battery off enough to reset the LTFT. It's only ran 10 miles since the clean. One other thing, the backwash from the turbo and venting that air back past the MAF, would that cause it to meter more air and dump fuel in when letting off creating an over rich condition before fully letting off the throttle? I assume Toyota had a solution for this, likely when the throttle is closed / based on TPS input. I also find it odd that the intake charge pipe connects to the engine breather, so the turbo recirculates gasses and sucks air in through the engine breather. Perhaps another thing is to pull the PCV on the rocker cover and check it - I'm going off on one now.
That pending code makes sense, if it's rich mostly at idle or tickover, perhaps that's why it's still pending - hasn't hit that 25% enough time yet, although I haven't driven the car enough time for it to become permanent, I think it's 40 times perhaps to become a current code? That bank appears to be the sensor that has been changed, it looks fairly recent. Also there is an MOT missing, the current MOT I was provided states pass with no advisories. Yet online it failed one week prior to that on emissions! Seems I wasn't provided a paper copy for that one, so seems it is was running rich then a few months back.
There may be hope yet then, perhaps pull the cover, replace the seals and gaskets, if I can figure out the rich running, replace the turbo oil feed return and sort out whatever seems to be misting oil near the filler cap I could be in a much better place with this car. I'd have to be VERY lucky though I would think...
Also found the oil feed pipe to the turbo to have traces of oil around it, best replace that one too.
I'm definitely wanting to remove that controller, I hate it being there. Not sure how to remove it though, I guess get underneath to see where the vacuum pipe has been spliced to the waste gate and just replace it from it's original source and destination?
Injectors seem fairly straight forward to get to, if I only I had better diagnostic equipment for Toyota, I could see what they were doing.
Your guess is as good as mine at the moment, O2 sensors seem within limits and no crazy figures or spikes going on. One new one and the old one reading similar show they should both be ok, so it has to be somewhere else. I guess MAF, injectors as you say or a dodgy remap are the first suspects?
Oh another interesting point, TPS reads buttery with engine off and ignition on, perhaps the piggyback is doing something odd with it, or the signal once being sent to the piggyback is accurate but the info reported to the scanner is not as suggested once it's running.
Quote from: "ilovejapcrap"mine was doing this
m https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE2Ae1Ym-Qo) m
so I'm doing this
l viewtopic.php?f=88&t=62697 (http://mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=62697) l
My engine removal method.
The Toyota obd2 port has a pretty pathetic refresh time and limited bandwidth. I wish it didn't. So the metrics are always a bit lagged. Particularly things that change instantly like throttle.
I could send you a video of mine if that helps. It's "buttery". But if I open my emanage piggyback live logging, it's instant, because it reads it straight from the tps.
Removing controller is very easy.
Remove the controller and plumb the wastegate straight into the turbo housing.
Basically just take the tube from the turbo housing to the controller off, remove the tube from the controller that goes to the wastegate. You're left with one tube coming off the wastegate; put that on the housing. It's in a very awkward place behind the output pipe. So remove that first.
The discharge pipe really shouldn't be going in front of the MAF. That'd be very odd, as you said, you'd have a lot of un metered air. The turbo would never suck air through there as the pressure is always going to be more than atmosphere when it vents.
Carolyn, is that some sort of hydraulic lift? Not seen something quite like that before s:) :) s:)
Shnazzle, thanks for the info, I think I should be good, appreciate the offer of the video. I'd sure be interested in MAF readings though at idle?
Regarding the running rich, I bit the bullet today, after leaving the battery off over night I jumped in the car and had a co-pilot monitor the live data, between two motorway junctions as we needed to head somewhere for work. I made sure I packed tools, oil and provisions in case!
I verified all data had been reset in the ECU and it had, it was all showing zero. I then fired the car up, instantly the STFT went to -10 to -19, driving around on cold start slowly it appeared to be over fueling, however once up to temperature I sat the car at a steady cruise of 3000rpm @ 70 mph. STFT stayed around zero and LTFT were around -1 to -4. However, I hit traffic on the motorway, queue a knocking noise from the back of the car, it wasn't the engine instantly checked rise and fall of RPM with the clutch in and made no difference, but sounds like something clonking with tyre rotation on the driver side rear, pulled over and took a look, nothing obvious, will have to have a look under later.
Anyhow, after the traffic freed up I did the rest of the journey, 40 miles in total, mostly motorway. Did a few WOT accelerations, STFT went to zero (I believe it uses LTFT for WOT). That did show -19 ish at this point.
Once I had parked the car up, I recycled the ignition and checked the data. Overall it showed LTFT1 as 0 and LTFT 2 as -5.5.
Not really sure what this is telling me at the moment, other than perhaps at Idle or WOT it's too rich?
Here's a thought, so on cold start is the MR2 on open loop? So just relying on the MAF signal to fuel? That's when I get black junk firing out of the exhaust, also smells rich at idle any time.
Shouldn't then the cold start not effect the LTFT? #confused
Have to admit never going into fueling this much with the sensors. Have checked if O2's and MAF's are in spec before, but I had the manufacturer's figures to go on in GPS for the MAF, can't find that anywhere for the Mr2 / 1zz. Also not familiar at all with how the ECU and piggyback behave together. What I can say is the O2 sensors seem to be doing their job and giving very similar readings to what they should so they appear fine.
Does indeed use LTFT at WOT and idle (unfortunately).
One test to do is to idle and watch the stft. Then increase rpm to about 3k and hold. What does stft do?
Righto, so came home, also found the clunk at low speed, just the intercooler pipe needed adjusting and tapping the undertray - sorted.
It looked positive ish on the way there, now I am back so 80 mile round trip, LTFT are back to -19 and -24.
Also at idle, STFT were close to zero and going either way give or take + / - 1, but, holding at 3k rpm, STFT was going nuts, it was at -15 or 20 more!!! With burbles coming our of the exhaust. MAF was reading 11ish GP/S at 3k - no load.
Pretty sure it would have tripped the codes so checked, and sure enough, pending codes for both banks being too rich now.
A little stumped on where to go from here. I guess I could try a new MAF, then pull the injectors. Could it be a dodgy map? I noticed that I found in the add before the previous owner that it said re-mapped. I mean that is just hearsay, he could have just meant it had the aftermarket piggyback...
Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.
MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/72032f44aa9c5966cbb37ae559359f1c.jpg)
Injectors or lack of compression are options.
Thanks for the info, normal piggy back it would seem, and can't find any tampering with it.
It doesn't have low compression, I've tested a couple of times, in fact compression was a bit on the high side, probably due to the oil around the top of the pistons. Once blowing that out, they were all around 180-200.
MattPerformance said he had some known good MAF's, so I've bought one off of him to be double sure. Might check the coolant sensor too.
After that it will be removing and cleaning the injectors.
After that I am out of ideas...
That's too high. Max fresh out of the factory is 185. An older engine should be less than 180. That indicates wet rings.
Re-build time, I'm afraid.
Made some progress. So the old valve cover gasket was leaking, I pulled it because oil was pooling in the plug wells. After cleaning up and using I discovered the seal on each plug tube was leaking. The coil packs were wet on the outside with oil, and oil was working it's way down the threads of the plugs. That's sorted now with a new gasket, also some oil was leaking where no sealant had been placed near the timing chain end of the head - again sorted.
I've fitted a new oil return feed, that was indeed leaking slightly. I fitted a new MAF, this massively sorted the rich running issue, I also replaced the bank 2 O2 sensor, although this didn't make a difference but hey at least both pre cat sensors are new now.
After sorting I took it for a run and did some data logging. Bank 1 was perfect, LTFT -4, Bank 2 was still -14 (better than -25!). Suspecting a leaky injector I pulled the fuel rail, before I even removed it fuel started peeing out of injector no4, it had a damaged O-ring.
I replaced all O-rings and swapped 3 and 4 with 1 and 2. Then guess what? Both banks evened out but were still -10. Seems a couple of injectors are also duff.
So I am ordered four new injectors. Hopefully once they are replaced the rich running will be sorted s:) :) s:)
Also oil consumption may be under control with fixing three leaks and the leaky plug seals.
Cheers.
*Edit, forgot to add, I blew low pressure through the injectors I switched, and both leaked while un-powered. Seems real issue for Rich running was an over-reading MAF and dodgy injectors.
Also ordered VK20's the correct plugs, Banzai fitted the wrong one's a couple of months back (17's which I subsequently also replaced before finding out they should be 20's for FI).
Once the car is running smooth, my hope is oil consumption is also under control and then I can look to what the future plans for the car are (body work tidy up, aero kit, and maybe look at building a new forged engine).
**another edit, forgot to mention seal on the filler cap was also worn and flat, allowing oil to leak out in that area, replaced and cleaned, it's been good now - all dry in that area.
[attachment=0:af4pk0ds] ia0 IMG_4022.JPG ia0 [/attachment:af4pk0ds][attachment=1:af4pk0ds] ia1 IMG_4025.JPG ia1 [/attachment:af4pk0ds][attachment=2:af4pk0ds] ia2 IMG_4027.JPG ia2 [/attachment:af4pk0ds]Few pics...
Quote from: "Carolyn"That's too high. Max fresh out of the factory is 185. An older engine should be less than 180. That indicates wet rings.
Re-build time, I'm afraid.
Yep thanks, did a retest after sorting some issues and I got 178, 175, 180, 182
Long term plan is probably a forged / better build, depends how I Feel.
Well done! Sounds like serious progress
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Quote from: "shnazzle"Well done! Sounds like serious progress
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Sure, slow steps, well, at least I think so but it has only been a few weeks.
To be fair, this motor only has 52k, two owners and is in alright nic. I think I could spend 14k on a VX220 turbo, 12k on an old lotus elise, and it probably would't be as quick as this or would need work.
Also taking a 59k mazzer home yesterday made me think, really, for the money even if I spend 10k on this car in the long run it is a bargain...
My main objective is to make sure suspension, brakes, ECU and management plus all ancillaries are good before deciding on a long term plan for the motor.
Thanks,
Steve
Sounds like you're making progress s:) :) s:)
Do you mind me asking what app you're using to get the data? Is it Torque or something else?
That top end looks real clean for a 1zz , I'd rekon it's had a rebuild already?. maybe they fudged a few last minute details.
Sure I use a handheld code reader, an Autel eu702, cost about £160 back in the day, but I am sure they are much cheaper or better ones now for the price.
It's still a nice reader though, does realtime data, even has programs you can load into it specifically for certain cars such as mercedes, and does ESP, ABS, transmission modules as well as ECU in such cars.
It does look clean too I thought Bevis, it does only have 52k though. There are some things that have been removed previously and not put back right.
Quote from: "shnazzle"Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.
MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/72032f44aa9c5966cbb37ae559359f1c.jpg)
Injectors or lack of compression are options.
I noticed your timing advance is 12, mine is 6 deg on tickover.
Found some interesting data.
According to the workshop manual 1zz-FE should idle between 1.4 - 2.0 gps, that's for an NA though. Without load at 2.5k should be 7.9 gps.
Engine Idle should be 750rpm
Idle timing ADV should be 10-18 degrees (although not uncommon to retard timing on boosted application to make safe when running lower octane fuel)
It also says acceptable ST / LTFT is 0 + / 1 20% (I don't buy that)
Throttle position fully closed 6-16%, fully open 64-98%
O2 B1 S1 states idle value 0.1 - 0.9
Quote from: "stevex"Quote from: "shnazzle"Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.
MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/72032f44aa9c5966cbb37ae559359f1c.jpg)
Injectors or lack of compression are options.
I noticed your timing advance is 12, mine is 6 deg on tickover.
Not sure why you're at 6, that seems quite retarded (tee-hee).
You can see that I have my airflow adjustment a bit off the mark for idle. It's adding fuel and the g/s is a bit high. I'll need to drop that 1%. No biggie at all.
I wouldn't be too pleased with +20 stft+ltft. but if you're talking tolerances,yes I suppose it's "ok" to compensate for crappy o2s or dirty maf sensors.
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Quote from: "shnazzle"Quote from: "stevex"Quote from: "shnazzle"Have you looked behind the passenger bin to see if there is an aftermarket piggyback? Or just the intended tte piggyback.
MAF readings seem OK.
This is mine today stood still in traffic.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/72032f44aa9c5966cbb37ae559359f1c.jpg)
Injectors or lack of compression are options.
I noticed your timing advance is 12, mine is 6 deg on tickover.
Not sure why you're at 6, that seems quite retarded (tee-hee).
You can see that I have my airflow adjustment a bit off the mark for idle. It's adding fuel and the g/s is a bit high. I'll need to drop that 1%. No biggie at all.
I wouldn't be too pleased with +20 stft+ltft. but if you're talking tolerances,yes I suppose it's "ok" to compensate for crappy o2s or dirty maf sensors.
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True, thanks for the info.
Well, the refurbed injectors turned up today, cost £80 which was a bargain I thought. Fitted them apart from, split two Orings!!! Got some compression ones the same size from a local diesel place and they are in.
Driving it around fueling looks almost perfect, + / - 3 ish. Still shows a bit high at idle mind, -11.0 but is going down, might need time to adjust as I didn't reset the tables this time.
Going to fit the proper SK20 plugs next.
Took it out of town today, 150 miles, no sign of noticeable oil usage yet, although the dipstick is a pain in the ass to read (half one side full on the other!). Plug tubes looking much nicer, no oil pooling.
New oil return feed dry as a bone.
Sounds so simple doesn't it... You assume injectors will always be ok. I need to do this with Helen's 440cc injectors as well.
80 quid isn't bad at all.
If it's at -11 and going down you're probably golden.
Well done. Bet it drives much nicer now
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Quote from: "shnazzle"Sounds so simple doesn't it... You assume injectors will always be ok. I need to do this with Helen's 440cc injectors as well.
80 quid isn't bad at all.
If it's at -11 and going down you're probably golden.
Well done. Bet it drives much nicer now
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Thanks - hope so! My hope is with the correct plugs in as well things should improve again.
To be honest, it could have just been an odd one, but, there was a listing for the same denso injectors on flea bay tested and refurbed with new filters etc. One NEW injector is £200+ in ECP!
For the price I figured swap them all out. Apparently you have to be careful on ebay though, there are listings that look like the typical Chinese ones that claim to be in the UK with new injectors for £20 each, they are dodgy Chinese clones - worth doing research first.
One thing also to note, even with the ignition off and fuel cap open, a LOT of fuel came out of the rail. I cleaned up the front and had paper towels around it, but what I hadn't realised until fitting the others is that there were pools of fuel sat in the dimples on top the intake manifold that had leaked down the back - there was literally a cup of fuel sat in them... Glad I spotted it, although getting it out wasn't easy - lots of wrags and a long handled screw driver.
Here is another set I found m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-CELICA ... SwCU1Y4QZr (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-CELICA-AVENSIS-MR2-FUEL-INJECTOR-23209-22040-PETROL-1-8-VVTi-X-4-SET-/322471244326?fits=Model%3AMR+2&hash=item4b14c8b226:g:ofQAAOSwCU1Y4QZr) m
The chinese ones tend to be lighter in colour and not have the denso markings and part no on - have to be careful! These ones look ok and the same as what I bought.
The best way I found to fit them without removing the fuel rail is to sit them into the lower o-rings as central as possible, and apply some silicone spray on the new compression o-rings on the top, then line up and gently massage the fuel rail in a circular motion whilst pressing down firmly. It's not feasible to push the injector in the rail on the 1st cylinder with the fuel rail connected as there just isn't enough room and you end up breaking an O-ring - just my experience.
I might later send the old ones off to be tested, or buy a new kit for them and have a go at refurbishing - might be worth it for £30 for the kit.
Oh one thing I forgot to mention, spark advance is actually ok, it's 6 on cold start, when warm and moving I did some checks, it's going between the expected ranges. Must remember to check these things when moving and not in CL!
LTFT -9.2 now after another spin last night, 200 miles down since oil change, I appear to be 1/4 of a litre down on oil at a guess, the dipstick is hard to read sometimes still looks full sometimes, but, that was before the gasket change and a few other bits (oil return pipe, filler cap gasket, plug gaskets etc) and I haven't touched it since. The oil appeared to be after leaving all night and taking a fresh reading to be 1/5th down the dipstick. I read 1.3 litre from E to F so about 1/4 of a litre down i'd guess.
Oil is starting to dirty a bit now, so I am dropping it again this weekend, new bosch filter again, and fresh 5w40 helix ultra. Going to carry on and do a few short term oil intervals to help clean the bottom end out. Plus I had added 500ml of MMO to the oil in the last change, so about time to drop it out now. Also, something interesting, revving yesterday at idle when warm just saw a small puff of black soot come out the exhaust not oil / smoke lingering like I saw before the gasket change?
I'll probably do the same again, stick 3.4 litres-ish shell helix in with the new filter, and top it off with MMO, then drop it again after another 200 miles or when the oil starts to dirty. As you saw from the pictires under the valve cover, it is clean, so I can't imagine it could be too gunked up underneath?
Hesistation at 3k rpm also gone since MAF change, could have also been partially caused by a duff injector (thanks MattPerformance for the MAF and advice).
Also spoke to a local engine builder yesterday, he is familiar with 1zz and 2zz, said no problem dropping it and fitting parts supplied, just waiting for a quote. Things starting to look a bit more positive now, I'll carry on with maintenance and make sure everything is sorted and running well, found a full MAG rebuild kit with modded pistons for £300 inc shipping - keeping my options open. Also saw Monkey Wrench do forged pistons, although the chap I spoke to is familiar with turbo charging NA high compression engines, he is convinced stock internals are fine if IAT is kept down for up to a bar of boost, he said crank and rods start to feel the strain around 250hp / 250ft lb mark. Happy with the default values though TBH, so that's good to know.
Car is also still going into the bodyshop early August to get the rear quarter dents sorted, scratches on the front wing and a total front bumper respray (some scuffs and bad touch ups on it), £300 all in, so pretty decent.
Cheers.
Well, new Denso sk20r11's in!
Also dropped the oil again today, did a small piston soak and put a new filter in again. Going to do some short interval changes to clean the bottom end up in the interim.
Noticed one of the intercooler pipes had tape over it, so suspected damage, I disconnected the intercooler and pulled the pipe off and it had a tear in it. So I went to a local place and bought some new silicone pipe, had to get a meter of it for a small piece! Anyway, replaced that now too.
Running alright, LTFT's are all good under acceleration and cruise, within + / - 5. Idle is still around 9.6, not too botherd about idle as the logging shows everything else is nice now.
Getting there, should really be taking pictures of all this work...