Hi guys.
I'm currently putting together a parts list so I can put a return fuel system and a rising rate regulator on my car as my Injectors are maxing out due to what I believe is low fuel pressure.
I'm trying to put together a parts list for myself but also something people can use for reference should they wish to do this modification to their cars also. This is something I need help with which is why I brought my question to you very knowledgeable people. I'm using -6AN fittings for my install but others may use something different.
So here goes - Starting from the fuel delivery moving towards fuel return to tank:
- from fuel pump 90 deg -6AN hose fitting off the top of the pump < Fuel specific braided type hose > 90 deg -6AN fitting to...
- return fuel rail with -6AN fittings fixed to both ends
- ...from fuel rail 90 deg -6AN fitting < Fuel specific braided type hose > Straight -6AN hose fitting to...
- pressure reg using a size fitting specific to whatever reg you're using. To...
- the tank using 45 deg -6AN hose fitting out of reg < Fuel specific braided type hose > finally -6AN straight fitting and bulkhead fitting with seals for return into tank
Parts list:
1 X Fuel pump ------- ORDERED - DeatschWerks DW65C 265 LPH
3 X 90 -6AN fittings
2 X straight -6AN fittings
1 X 45 deg -6AN fitting
1 X return fuel rail with -6AN male fittings screwed/welded on -------- DONE. Home fabricated
1 X 1:1 regulator with correct sized fittings -------- ORDERED - Sytec 473 with -6AN fittings preftitted
1 x Oil filled pressure gauge ( what sort of range? ) -------- ORDERED - Sytec gauge 0-7Bar range
1 X bulkhead fitting with seals for return to tank
3m length of fuel hose
Please help me where you can guys because I've only cooked this up from looking at the MWR pictures. I might be totally miles off so I hope someone can help, it would help me massively but also others who would want to do this to their cars too.
Cheers guys!
Watching this. We need a how to on this...you're our volunteer :)
I'm more than happy to do a write up with pictures when I figure out all the bits and pieces I need.
Interested in this as im thinking of getting RRFPR as well, benefits seem very apt for Turbo build and tune.
IIRC SpyderLee has a video on youtube where he fits a return fuel rail and RRFPR.
Believe its called "more engine mods" worth a look although not a How To guide
hope it helps
Yeah I've seen the vid. I'm just trying to dumb it down so daft me can figure out how to do it.
Once I've done that, I'm going to make a super easy step by step guide on how to modify the fuel system to return with a rising rate regulator that anyone could follow.
To be fair all the hard work is in modifying the existing rail and the fuel pump housing.
The rest is just plumbing.
If you just get a MWR pre-made billet rail you're half way there.
Then it's just a case of blocking up the stock fpr and drilling a hole with a connector for a return fuel line in the fuel pump housing.
Still, a how to would be handy including setting the base pressure
Already done this
Just need to find time to upload the pics and write the guide
SpyderLee is pretty down to earth and he would reply to any questions you have. I have already spoke to him couple of times, just try to hit him on facebook. On the side note streetwerks are doing a fuel rail i think or at least i recall that i have seen one on their facebook page. They are nearly finished with it so it might worth a try to ask them.
We managed to weld a fuel return outlet onto a standard fuel rail for Essex2 (Gary). Has to be drilled at a very specific angle to clear stuff around the head. But we did it and Gary pressure tested it and it was fine.
He's the man to ask. Might be able to provide a pic too?
Quote from: shnazzle on March 6, 2018, 14:03
To be fair all the hard work is in modifying the existing rail and the fuel pump housing.
The rest is just plumbing.
If you just get a MWR pre-made billet rail you're half way there.
Then it's just a case of blocking up the stock fpr and drilling a hole with a connector for a return fuel line in the fuel pump housing.
Still, a how to would be handy including setting the base pressure
I've already fabricated a fuel rail and am currently waiting on a price for a plug and play fuel pump from GT-4 play.
I'm just a worrier when it comes to stuff like this and I love nothing more than to see a foolproof step by step so I can't get it wrong.
Quote from: Essex2Visuvesi on March 6, 2018, 14:35
Already done this
Just need to find time to upload the pics and write the guide
I'd love to see this when it's ready!
The fuel cage mod is quite easy
Drill out the centre to take a 90 deg AN6 fitting and bolt in tighten in place.
Stock FPR is removed and replaced with a bung (the pictured one is from MWR tho it would be easy to reverse engineer as I took measurements before fitting)
Fuel rail was modified by Dave and Carolyn. I'll post up some pics when I'm next in the shed
Could you not disconnect and use the Evap line for the return to save drilling the cage?
I was talking to Lee (SpyderLee) yesterday and he said he'd bored out the white plastic spout slightly ( the plastic spout looking piece on the top of the cage ) that the evap line connects to and connected the return to that.
Also, I've ordered a 265LpH DW65c fuel pump from GT-4 Play since it's a plug and play unit and fits straight into the cage. I know the Walbro 255 has been used many times but I really cant be bothered to do any more shaving of plastics and fudging things to try and fit.
Quote from: woodypk on March 7, 2018, 09:52
Also, I've ordered a 265LpH DW65c fuel pump from GT-4 Play since it's a plug and play unit and fits straight into the cage. I know the Walbro 255 has been used many times but I really cant be bothered to do any more shaving of plastics and fudging things to try and fit.
That's a very good shout actually...
How much is it from GT4?
I was considering getting the MWR straight swap pump but it's a lot with shipping and tax.
Edit
Found it £137 think that's good.
Will give that a try if I max out my injectors.
It was £133 from Gt-4 play with a small discount with "mr2roc17".
It's one of the jobs I wasn't looking forward ( or expecting to have to do ) so I thought I'd make it as easy as possible and buy a plug and play unit.
P.S so you're all aware, I'm currently running an Intercooled turbo setup - soon to be chargecooled. Currently standard fuel system other than injectors. I used 475CC Astra VXR injectors. Running a standard MAF sensor but I've got a Subaru one ready to go in. My injectors max out quite early in the rev range and it's been like this since it got mapped. It was mapped to 271BHP and 230 ftlbs at Noble. Once I've got it all sorted I'll be going back for another mapping session to adjust things. Needless to say that I'll be asking for a discount since they over mapped the car in the first place - I was only expecting 230-240 bhp.
Quote from: woodypk on March 7, 2018, 09:50
Could you not disconnect and use the Evap line for the return to save drilling the cage?
I was talking to Lee (SpyderLee) yesterday and he said he'd bored out the white plastic spout slightly ( the plastic spout looking piece on the top of the cage ) that the evap line connects to and connected the return to that.
You probably could do it that way... I just copied what others had done on spyderchat
I'm not overly keen on using an "out" pipe as an "in". The evap gasses do need to be able to escape
Very true....
Quote from: Essex2Visuvesi on March 7, 2018, 11:40
You probably could do it that way... I just copied what others had done on spyderchat
How did you secure the fitting into the pump cage? I've not actually got round to removing it from the tank yet so it may be very obvious once I see it. I'm currently arming myself with as much info as I can for when I buy the parts.
270 from those injectors on stock pump is a lot.
What's their duty cycle?
I would think that they are pushing around 90%.
I wouldn't want to push them that hard.
Hopefully with new pump and FPR you won't need to push so hard.
Nice figure btw. Would think you were getting near the limit for a stock block.
Quote from: woodypk on March 7, 2018, 11:45
Very true....
Quote from: Essex2Visuvesi on March 7, 2018, 11:40
You probably could do it that way... I just copied what others had done on spyderchat
How did you secure the fitting into the pump cage? I've not actually got round to removing it from the tank yet so it may be very obvious once I see it. I'm currently arming myself with as much info as I can for when I buy the parts.
I Used a 90deg AN6 bulkhaed fitting
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AN-6-AN6-90-DEGREE-Forged-Bulkhead-Fitting-Black/160549647301?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Couple of washers and the correct nuts to hold it in place
Quote from: woodypk on March 7, 2018, 09:50
Could you not disconnect and use the Evap line for the return to save drilling the cage?
I was talking to Lee (SpyderLee) yesterday and he said he'd bored out the white plastic spout slightly ( the plastic spout looking piece on the top of the cage ) that the evap line connects to and connected the return to that.
I did exactly this the first time round and suffered issues with fuel after long running - it may have been a coincidence but if gases can't escape it will have an effect on tank pressure so this time I'm doing similar to Essex2Visuvesi.
Gary - did you sort the fuel filter in the end?
Quote from: MilesH on March 7, 2018, 22:48
Quote from: woodypk on March 7, 2018, 09:50
Could you not disconnect and use the Evap line for the return to save drilling the cage?
I was talking to Lee (SpyderLee) yesterday and he said he'd bored out the white plastic spout slightly ( the plastic spout looking piece on the top of the cage ) that the evap line connects to and connected the return to that.
I did exactly this the first time round and suffered issues with fuel after long running - it may have been a coincidence but if gases can't escape it will have an effect on tank pressure so this time I'm doing similar to Essex2Visuvesi.
Gary - did you sort the fuel filter in the end?
Yes, I bought a different pump, after faffing with a few different ones mates had lying around I ended up with a used 265LpH DW65c fits perfect, just needed to mod the power connector
Quote from: MilesH on March 7, 2018, 22:48
Quote from: woodypk on March 7, 2018, 09:50
Could you not disconnect and use the Evap line for the return to save drilling the cage?
I was talking to Lee (SpyderLee) yesterday and he said he'd bored out the white plastic spout slightly ( the plastic spout looking piece on the top of the cage ) that the evap line connects to and connected the return to that.
I did exactly this the first time round and suffered issues with fuel after long running - it may have been a coincidence but if gases can't escape it will have an effect on tank pressure...
This is exactly what I meant above. It needs to vent. It's actually a bit dangerous to block it.
Also,your stock ECU is mapped for the enrichment provides by the evap.
I'm currently on the Apexi ECU and it will be mapped regardless but I get what you're saying. I'll leave the Evap line alone.
When I get paid next Thursday I'll be buying the next part of the kit - the FPR. There's a Sytec 1:1 FPR on Merlin Motorsport for £112 and a 0-7bar gauge for £15. I know a few people that have used this Reg including Lee and I've not heard any horror stories as of yet. EDIT - £134 and £17 after I turned the VAT button on...
P.s I would have bought the Reg along with the fuel pump but I bought the Mrs. a mountain bike - It's my cheeky way of getting out on mine more by inviting her along.... If she doesn't want to come, well... at least I asked. :-\ ;)
OK... I changed my mind. I've just ordered the Reg and gauge.
CMON PAYDAY!!
This is the modified fuel rail courtesy of Dave & Carolyn
And painted prior to fitting
Looks good. What fittings do you plan to use for the fuel lines to ensure they hold the pressure? I'm never a fan of jubilee clips on fuel lines, but maybe that's just me being strange lol!
Quote from: MilesH on March 12, 2018, 17:48
Looks good. What fittings do you plan to use for the fuel lines to ensure they hold the pressure? I'm never a fan of jubilee clips on fuel lines, but maybe that's just me being strange lol!
AN6 fittings throughout