Ok thought it was about time i started a thread now that im well on the way with this one :)
Basically i bought a used SP240 kit complete with a Link G4+ Storm, AEM wideband, EP baffled sump and various other bits and bobs all from a car Rogue bought in for breaking, i took a day to have a long ride down to Roque HQ to remove the kit myself so i could inspect it and see exactly how it all fitted on, once home i set a plan to do this in 3 stages as below.
1st Stage - ECU etc: I needed to install the Link G4+ Ecu & Aem Wideband unit along with the complete Engine loom they were both hardwired into, wasnt too bad a job just bit fiddly getting everything swapped over and routed around the engine bay, the Link Ecu is setup to run in tandem with the stock ecu which still powers the dashboard instruments but all the engine control (fuel, ignition, VVT etc etc) is controlled by the Link which is a nice piece of kit :)
Once i had all that fitted i tweaked the map for stock injectors (kit came with larger injectors but after testing they proved fit only for the bin) and she fired right up and idled nicely :D, although wideband was showing very lean so i tweaked the ecu back to get wideband reading as it should, car then smelled very rich! and wasnt running as nicely as before, i suspected the wideband had an issue reporting incorrect AFR so i dug out my spare standalone WB and popped that in tailpipe to compare readings with what the AEM was inputing into the Link Ecu, sure enough it showed we were silly rich!.... i disconnected the AEM WB and used mine to get some miles on check everything else was ok and do some basic map tweaks, also i had a strange pulsing noise at idle which after a few days hunting around i tracked back to poorly setup IAC settings on Link map, changed that and noise was gone.
I needed to sort out the WB before moving forward as its hardwired into Ecu and makes logging and tuning much easier, it can also be used for closedloop fueling at idle/cruise like oem ecu does so handy to have, i suspected the AEM widebands sensor was faulty as it was totally covered in soot when i removed from turbo car exhaust however after swapping it for a good spare sensor i had we still had the rich afr issue & WB reporting lean!....next was to check over all the wiring and found the AEM control unit hadnt been wired in correctly with the earth feed from sensor to ecu left unattached so it was earthing through the exhaust! anyone who knows widebands knows they are very sensitive to where all the earth points attach and they affect the readings massively, i attached the earth to ecu with the others and straight away the AFR readings on the Link came inline with my spare WB unit so job done.
What is worrying is that the map that came on Ecu was setup for closed loop fueling, this means the Ecu takes reading from WB at idle and cruise and adjusts fuelling to suit rather than relying just on map numbers, this means the car i took turbo kit from was running stupid rich at idle/cruise due to the earth not being connected, must of drunk fuel like a V8 and explained the soooted up exhaust and i would imagine engine not in best health with all the fuel pouring through it!
2nd Stage: Fuelling upgrade... i needed larger Injectors before turbo went on so i fitted some and mapped car in N/a form to make sure all is well before fitting turbo, i opted for a new set of the proven VXR 470cc Bosch injectors which with some trimming to body and harness adapters drop right in for cheap quality upgrade, bit of fiddling about trimming and hassle getting correct adaptors but all sorted fairly easy really, ive spent the last few weeks going over the map to get everything tiptop before i think about adding boost, all done now so onto next stage!
3rd Stage - Fit the Turbo kit Now im happy with car running on Link ecu and VXR injectors in n/a form its time to fit the turbo kit so yesterday i set about stripping everything off i needed and made a start bolting the turbo kit on car, i still need to sort the pipework and few other jobs but the manifold and turbo are all fitted as is the first part of exhaust and WB sensor.
Im now waiting on some new heatshield sleeving for cooling pipework then i can connect it into cooling system, while im waiting ive plenty to do including sort oil feed & drain to turbo including removing/drilling sump (sold the EP sump), fit Intercooler and pipework and sort air filter etc mounting so will keep me busy for a few nights.
Once the kit is up and running i have a few upgrades i would like to do as follows, the kit came with the SP240 air to air intercooler (larger version of TTE ic i beleive) which is not going to be suitable for my needs as will suffer from heatsoak when im doing sprint events im sure, plan is to upgrade to water to air chargecooler to improve on this.
Clutch im sure wont be happy with extra grunt so that is planned in to upgrade as well and maybe first job after its all up and running.
Exhaust i think will need to be addressed as well, kit came with a 2.5" system including sports cat and single carbon fibre silencer (motorbike style) which i think will be too noisy for me, we will see though as could be ok due to turbo and cat in system which do absorb noise to a degree.
I will keep this thread updated with progress but below is picture of how it sits as of last night.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/MR2-turbo-on1.jpg)
Great, looking forward to this build thread!
Seems to be a resurgence of 1zz Turbo's at the moment.
Its been a long time coming but im getting started now :)... got the oil dropped at lunchtime and new gasket made for oil drain connection to turbo, hopefully get sump off tonight so i can get that drilled out and dash fitting for oil return on, im on home straight then as rest is simple stuff :)
Im sure there is a market for complete turbo kits for these cars now over here, its so expensive to import them from usa and UK kits that are out there like the Mallian etc are not complete and lot of money for what you get, manifold looks awful on it for instance!
Quote from: thetyrant on November 4, 2019, 16:52Im sure there is a market for complete turbo kits for these cars now over here, its so expensive to import them from usa and UK kits that are out there like the Mallian etc are not complete and lot of money for what you get, manifold looks awful on it for instance!
Agreed! There must be a market for a good quality turbo kit which provides around the same amount of power as the TTE. I would also believe it will make approval much easier in a lot of other european countries, if one can compare it with the TTE that has the TÜV-documents.
Good progress so far won't be long till you're boosting around smiling from ear to ear.
Not quite as much progress as i hoped tonight but got a few nasty jobs done, also an easy job fitting new gasket to turbo drain pipe at turbo end, next i got the sump off which was a mission!....then cleaned it and the block up another mission! lol
Did some measuring and drilled the hole in sump for oil return, i forgot to bring the big 19mm drill home from work so just did a smaller pilot hole to check i had everything in right place, once this is done i will give sump a good wash out and final clean before refitting with new sealant :)
Pics below...
Sump off and basic clean up.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-sumpoff1.jpg)
Engine with no sump and flange all cleaned ready for sump to go back on, quite a bit of carbon build up in some areas but its 14 years old and 103k miles so not bad i guess, it has full service history from Toyota before i bought it as well and more frequent oil changes since, shows more regular changes wouldnt hurt keep things cleaner in there but all main parts are in good shape and pickup was immaculate so all good..
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-sumpoff2.jpg)
Sump with pilot hole drilled :)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-sumphole1.jpg)
More to come soon :D
Looking good so far! Will be watching closely!
looking good buddy!
Not a huge amount of progress this week so far despite putting in the hours, as always the small jobs take longer than you think when your double checking and cleaning everything as you go.
I have finally got the sump and return connector sorted and refitted that last night as well as hooking up oil drain from turbo, also routed oil feed pipe underneath to the filter house ready to hook into oil pressure port, first though i wanted to fit intercooler and piping as that dictates where oil feed pipe sits.
Ive ran into a snag though as the IC outlet end is fouled by the coolant hard pipe coming up from under car!, i think a gentle massage should give me clearance i just hope it doesnt snap and at 9.30pm last night i didnt want to tackle it so that is tonights job, if it does then i will reroute it with some extra flexi hose in there to make more space but would rather not add more joins if i dont need to and also means draining all the coolant which im hoping to avoid, so we will see later.
Also have the turbo coolant feed pipes in there new heatproof sleeves all ready to go on, new Ramair air filter arrived and worked out where its going but had to order a new piece of alloy pipe to get to its new position which is under the rear light rather than behind it, new pipe should be here today so i can get that finished off then we are pretty close to fire up, this weekend hopefully!
Late one last night sorting out more plumbing on the install :), IC and all pipework is now fitted and with some tweaking i was able to make clearance for the IC outlet pipework as mentioned in above post, if im honest im not 100% happy with it as still very close to coolant pipework but its functional and shouldnt cause any issues, plus i have to keep telling myself the air/air IC is temporary anyhow but being a perfectionist makes it difficult when im not totally happy! but i think ive got to a useable compromise for now as all pipework fits and is has clearance from the hot bits!
Also got the intake pipework finished and new air filter mounted, just need to tweak the support bracket a touch and add another rubber support where it comes through the diagonal part of frame for good measure, its always tricky making sure everything is supported enough but have enough wobble room to allow for engine movement etc and not put stress on any parts, but im happy enough with it all now and just need to make/fit some heatsheilds to separate it from exhaust area and that's it all done, pics below.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-intake1.jpg)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-intake2.jpg)
I ended using the same position for the air filter, mixture of hard pipes and various silicone elbows to make it work.
Ended up using off cuts of silicone to stop it vibrating through the Cross members into the arch and seems OK.
Quote from: Gaz2405 on November 8, 2019, 12:08I ended using the same position for the air filter, mixture of hard pipes and various silicone elbows to make it work.
Ended up using off cuts of silicone to stop it vibrating through the Cross members into the arch and seems OK.
Yes seems the best place and all i needed to change from pipework that came with kit was the last piece of alloy pipe that filter clamps onto from a 90 to a 45deg, the kit originally had the air filter up behind the rear light but its pretty cramped there and had been rubbing also would have to remove/cut the fresh air feed tube, this filter is slightly bigger as well so felt it better down below like this.
Mountings wise i have alloy pipe rubber mounted just next to filter which is holding it all up nicely, as above i think i will add at least 1 more rubber support just before it comes back out from engine bay which is probably overkill but i like things to be right :)
All i need to do now is connect the coolant pipes to turbo along with turbo oil feed onto filter housing, sort the breather setup and fit the catch can etc then just go over all pipework to double check everything, once thats done fill her with oil and refit battery then we are good to go!... hopefully have it out start the mapping tomorrow :D
Houston ....we have lift off...and boost in the little toyota :D
Got everything buttoned up today and started her up an hour or so ago, only had chance for a quick drive after warming it up in garage checking for leaks etc, and as its now dark i want to wait until daylight to get a proper testdrive, it felt good though with a little tickle into boost and only on actuator pressure as I haven't hooked up the boost solenoid yet, so around 6psi looking at datalog.
Pleasantly surprised that its not mega loud with the small carbon silencer but will wait until I get a proper drive to see what its really like! I suspect a mid size proper silencer will be needed but we will see.
Happy enough there was no leaks or rattles etc showing that the extra time ive spent going over things has paid off, will get it on ramps tomorrow for proper inspection and check over before I say to much on that though lol
I did run into a headache early on today installing the oil feed into filter housing pressure port, kit came with a t-piece and take off to do this, I took pressure switch out byt when I tried to screw t-piece in its place it did not feel good, on closer inspection appeared wrong size compared to pressure switch which had far more taper, I was lucky the local Hydraulic place was open so took everything up there and was able to pick up the correct fitting, it must of been forced into the engine I took kit off! all good now hopefully :)
Well done!
6psi will be a noticeable but different animal with the boost sol connected.
Good luck for tomorrow
Quote from: s12vea on November 9, 2019, 18:56Well done!
6psi will be a noticeable but different animal with the boost sol connected.
Good luck for tomorrow
Yes indeed 10psi+ will be a whole different animal but not sure my clutch will thank me :) I will test and map on actuator pressure for awhile before I look at any extra boost :D
Yep the clutch won't be happy either way tbh
OK got 50miles or so on it this morning to make a start on mapping tweaks :) im just home to let it cool down then i can get it jacked up and check everything over, there was quite a bit of blue smoke yesterday after first start once it started to warm up which i put down to suspected residual oil in pipework, exhaust and ic etc as it cleared once i took it out for short drive, however it was same again this morning until i got it properly warmed up when there was no smoke i could seen, i only did a couple of miles yesterday so could still be residual oil but we will see how it goes next cold start.
I am thinking its probably the turbo oil seal on its way out which is something i half expected as dont think the car i took kit from was particularity well treated!...it may improve now its got new fresh oil and i warm up/cool down as you should so i will just see how it goes, worst case i will either get a recon turbo or get this one rebuilt as its not an expensive job. I did think about doing it before fitting but as i was told the turbo had not that long ago been done and as bearing feels good and there was no obvious oil on wheels i thought i would take the chance, not a massive job to sort if it doesnt cure itself though so im not too concerned.
On way home once i had fuelling map about right i did a full throttle 3rd gear pull on section of road ive been using for my Virtual Dyno testing (see other thread about that) so i can compare where things are so far compared to pre-turbo on same section of road.
Ive attached a screenshot and as you can see some decent gains and currently only running 5.5psi peak actuator pressure, its showing that its now around 169hp & 147fltbs at the wheels according to VD, so thats +63hp and +46 lbft over last run i did when car was n/a on that road, i did get some pulls with higher numbers in n/a mode but the one ive used on this overlay was repeatable so think higher number runs must of had tailwind maybe.
So far so good though and car feels fun to drive even now, ive no plans to turn up boost just yet either so will tweak as is for now, clutch seemed to cope ok but we will see how that goes as well, im sure it will need uprating if i go up much more on boost which is another reason not to rush into more boost just yet :)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-turbovd1.jpg)
Great it's up and going good so far.
Kudos for another self mapper.
My clutch started slipping around 7psi, which is no real Measure as 7psi on one turbo is different to another. But something to go on.
Quote from: Gaz2405 on November 10, 2019, 14:06Great it's up and going good so far.
Kudos for another self mapper.
My clutch started slipping around 7psi, which is no real Measure as 7psi on one turbo is different to another. But something to go on.
Yes its coming along nicely :)
I did another 3rd gear full throttle pull just now when out on another mapping run and sure I felt a tiny bit of clutch slip just as it came on boost, best start thinking about which upgrade to go for!
More tweaks this afternoon and a good going over with spanners afterwards and all seems ok, found a tiny bit of rub on driveshaft from edge of silicone joiner to turbo but easy sorted that. Also found i hadn't put the clamp back on water feed going to oil filter housing doh!, moved it up out way to get enough clearance to screw in t-piece and never moved it back, lucky it didn't blow off but all sorted now.
Still smokey after its been sat awhile until you get it warmed through, so turbo oil seal im pretty sure is culprit and its seeping past it when not running, will get on sorting that.
Going over the data from last mapping session this afternoon there is a tiny bit of clutch slip around 3k when planting foot to floor from 2k, other than that not had an issue but its obviously at its limit!
Did another 3rd gear pull on same road to compare with one this morning, bit richer on fuel and less igniton so was happier to rev it a touch harder, made a little more peak power but mainly just because of the extra revs and at 6400 it was within 1hp of earlier run where i didnt go any higher revs.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-turbovd2.jpg)
Took a gamble today and ordered a recon turbo from one of the guys on ebay so will see what turns up, it was cheap at £170 with no exchange needed so at least i get to retain mine which i can get rebuilt at my leisure should i need to, i would say its not silly cheap so there is a chance it will be a decent job.
Will get started stripping this turbo off tonight, 2 rear most bolts are easy to get at but the 2 at engine side are going to be tricky! may have to remove manifold to get access but hopefully not, its no biggy if i do and will see how i go.
Checked with Rogue and the turbo i got with kit was rebuilt in january 2017 so seal hasnt lasted long, it was a track car though so no doubt had some hammer and probably not had proper warm up/cool down which is what kills turbos if not done, also no DV on this setup wont be helping and i may look to plumb in a recirc type, im not a fan of the chav whoosh you get with VTA dv's so must be getting old lol...i do like the turbo chatter/stall noise you get without running a dv though as sounds proper old school lol, just not so good for turbo life!
I had a few turbos on my SP240 kit generally I bought cheap recon ones which turned out to be a false economy.
Also had issues where the oil return in the sump was too low and was backing up into the turbo.
Hope you have neither of these issues.
Tbh if I was doing it again I'd buy a much newer turbo and have it remapped.
Quote from: 1979scotte on November 12, 2019, 10:42I had a few turbos on my SP240 kit generally I bought cheap recon ones which turned out to be a false economy.
Also had issues where the oil return in the sump was too low and was backing up into the turbo.
Hope you have neither of these issues.
Tbh if I was doing it again I'd buy a much newer turbo and have it remapped.
Yes its a gamble i know but they have good feedback and price is sensible enough that they could of fitted a rebuild kit and balanced it so we will see.
Oil return was possibly an issue when it was on previous car as they had used the fitting already in the Elise Parts sump which to me was too low really, ive drilled my stock sump as high as possible as per the TTE instructions so should ok, there is also a small restrictor in oil feed to the turbo to stop it getting too much flow so i think the oil supply/drain side is ok.
This turbo while an old design is ideally sized for my goals, its responsive from what ive seen so far and with goals of 200-220 at crank it flows plenty of air without too much heat at that level, if i was pushing for 240+ then yes upgrading would be good idea, however at this level i dont think there is enough gains from a more modern design to make it worthwhile re-engineerng the rest of kit for it.
Also problem when getting better flow up top you often suffer low down increasing lag/loosing response, as my car is primarily road and sprint use the response and reliability are more important than making bigger numbers, only thing i would be interested in is more efficient to generate less heat but i think with planned upgrade to a water/air chargecooler i wont have any issues on that front.
New Turbo has just arrived :) workmanship externally at least looks ok with what looks like new shaft and wheels etc so hopefully all is as promised which is basically new internals just outer housings that are reused, time to get the old one off tonight see if this will fit!
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-newturbo1.jpg)
OK got the turbo off and its obvious why its smoking, puddle of oil in turbine outlet and as you can see below once split the turbine wheel and housing have obviously been leaking for awhile as its well baked on and ive only done 50miles since fitting it.
I wish i had split the turbine housing off before fitting kit as would of seen this and saved doing i twice!, there was a tiny bit visible before splitting but its not until you get it apart you see how bad it was, never mind its all going back together now :)
Ive swapped the old turbine housing onto new turbo after giving it a good clean and inspection, saves having to remove the studs and drill out holes on new one, the studs are in the manifold on this kit unlike the Saab that turbo is from where they are in turbo and it bolts up through the manifold.
Ok best get back to it make sure ive got the water pipes on at right angle then i can bolt it on :D
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-turboremoved1.jpg)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-turbinewheel1.jpg)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-turbinehousing1.jpg)
Got it mostly back together last night after late shift in garage, just had to refit bumper etc today and been out for a quick drive just now and thankfully smoke screen has gone :D
I initally fitted the new actuator that came with turbo but its stronger than the one that came with kit it seems as after getting a few miles i tickled into boost and it tried to shoot off like a scalded cat! lol...looks like it was trying to do nearer to 10psi so i backed off quick and will check logs later see what i did, nipped back home and swapped actuators over which was fun with hot exhaust/turbo!, at least ive got a spare for higher boost later down the line :)
Will get some more miles on before i give it any pain make sure its all nicely bedded in.
Ian
Just checked the datalogs from run out earlier with the stronger actuator, boost cut was activating which surprisingly was set at only 8.7psi from original map that came with ecu/kit etc, it actually kicks in 1.4psi before the limit so most boost it made today was 7.3psi and it felt a good bit quicker than the 5.5psi i was seeing before, cant wait to try 10psi once i get a clutch sorted, which will probably be my xmas project all being well.
I have been looking at clutches and i know a few people run the Corolla compressor oe spec clutch which i am pondering also, however im concerned its not going to be enough of an upgrade and im trying to find out if its actually any different to the normal 2zz 190 celica/corolla clutch, does anyone have more input on that ?
Exedy do am upgraded street organic clutch as well as paddle type, even the upgraded organic im wary of as they often have firmer centre springs which can cause an awful rattle up on deceleration, i would rather avoid that if i can as it gets on my tits. Paddle clutches are just awful unless on track so dont want that!
On my old Evo2 i got a place in OZ called Raceclutch to make me a custom clutch which used a stock sprung centre with custom friction material and higher clamping loads, it was an amazing clutch capable of holding 400ftlbs, full throttle launches and was quiet in operation as well as lasting 40k miles! expensive though but i might ask him if he does one for the 1zz/2zz as an option.
Helix or Competition clutch are other options but i dont know if they suffer from upgraded spring rattle as well which seems common on uprated units, i dont know why these companies think its a good idea to upgraded the centre springs even on mild upgrades like this, has anyone run a Helix on CC on here ?
Ian
A clutch must be able to transfer torque.
As such a 2ZZ clutch, although fit for the 190 hp, may not be able to hold the torque of a turbo 1ZZ with 190 hp.
Manufacturers should specify the torque a clutch and pressure group can hold.
On my old TTE turbo running 10psi I ran the compressor 2zz clutch oem feel and still going strong today with present owner Greg.
My current setup running 9psi GT28RS circa 250bhp is running helix it's more than up to the job and prob the best of the uprated clutches without being too harsh but far from oem feel.
Gary is running the compressor clutch on his and handles the torque currently. If I could swap to that myself I would just to have the oem feel.
I think it will depend how the car is driven I guess
Yeah in running the compressor clutch with 230ftlbs if I remember correctly..edit
220ftlbs when rolling roaded, but was at 10 psi then.
Tracked it at 12-15psi 😂
If the clutch continues to hold out Gary I will change mine lol
On the pages of phoenixfriction the rating of many clutches they stock is given under the specs header ( the clutch rating should have a 20% safety margin; i.e. should be ok at 120% the spec.)
They also list the other cars the parts are used on.
https://www.phoenixfriction.com/t-ymm_product_list.aspx
Quote from: s12vea on November 15, 2019, 19:42On my old TTE turbo running 10psi I ran the compressor 2zz clutch oem feel and still going strong today with present owner Greg.
My current setup running 9psi GT28RS circa 250bhp is running helix it's more than up to the job and prob the best of the uprated clutches without being too harsh but far from oem feel.
Gary is running the compressor clutch on his and handles the torque currently. If I could swap to that myself I would just to have the oem feel.
I think it will depend how the car is driven I guess
Thanks for the input, how do you find the helix for coast down noises ? also you say far from oem feel is that just heavy or grabby etc.
Cheers
Ian
Coasting zero noise
A fair bit heavier and a little grabby, Once the clutch is warm it makes thinks a tad smoother.
I would go compressor clutch
Quote from: Gaz2405 on November 15, 2019, 20:05Yeah in running the compressor clutch with 230ftlbs if I remember correctly..edit
220ftlbs when rolling roaded, but was at 10 psi then.
Tracked it at 12-15psi 😂
Did you find any spec that shows the 2zz compressor clutch is any different to n/a 2zz unit ? most places im looking they say they are same but its not 100% cler.
Neither car has the torque of a turbo 1zz but especially the n/a 2zz which isn't really any different torque wise to a n/a 1zz at 133lbs, compressor 2zz is 170lbs so getting closer but turbo is going to be putting out 200+ lbs so while the 2zz compressor might cope initially be interesting to see how it works out longterm.
Ive been down this road many times and getting a clutch that can cope with torque, driving style, last well,drive nice and not cost earth isn't always easy!
Quote from: s12vea on November 15, 2019, 21:20Coasting zero noise
A fair bit heavier and a little grabby, Once the clutch is warm it makes thinks a tad smoother.
I would go compressor clutch
Hmm thank that's good on the noise front as that's a pet hate of mine, I don't mind little heavier and grabby if it can handle the abuse, I do sprints so launching does happen all be it as sympathetic as I can be, last thing I want is to fit compressor clutch only to burn it out after a couple of events, I will ponder it though.
Quote from: thetyrant on November 15, 2019, 21:22Quote from: Gaz2405 on November 15, 2019, 20:05Yeah in running the compressor clutch with 230ftlbs if I remember correctly..edit
220ftlbs when rolling roaded, but was at 10 psi then.
Tracked it at 12-15psi 😂
Did you find any spec that shows the 2zz compressor clutch is any different to n/a 2zz unit ? most places im looking they say they are same but its not 100% cler.
Neither car has the torque of a turbo 1zz but especially the n/a 2zz which isn't really any different torque wise to a n/a 1zz at 133lbs, compressor 2zz is 170lbs so getting closer but turbo is going to be putting out 200+ lbs so while the 2zz compressor might cope initially be interesting to see how it works out longterm.
Ive been down this road many times and getting a clutch that can cope with torque, driving style, last well,drive nice and not cost earth isn't always easy!
No couldn't find any specs, but for £125 it was worth a pop!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F252076656049 (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F252076656049)
Ok some experiments today with the tune now ive got some miles on the turbo, short story ive switched off the VVT for 2 reasons first i want to concentrate on fuel/igniton tuning and the VVT makes this more complicated as its altering the VE of engine in midrange, secondly i wanted to see the difference it makes in torque with the idea i can reduce initial torque to help clutch cope until i get that uprated.
Initial findings are that without the VVT ive lost around 10ftlbs in midrange which you can feel, then boost creeps higher in revs and it catches back up so mission accomplished on helping clutch cope and still a rapid little car :D
Also new turbo is pumping a little more air at top end as boost is creeping up more, on old turbo it was around 4.5psi until over 5k when it slowy creeps upto 5.8psi at topend, new turbo is similar at low revs but creeps upto 7.5psi at top of revs, i dont think this is VVT related as its past point of when it retarded back to zero on old map, i guess i could add in some VVT advance at top to help reduce boost but at moment at least in 3rd gear its well within my current limits which is keep it under 10psi for time being, have yet to do a full throttle pull in higher than 3rd gear so may have more creep then, we will see.
Ive done once of my Virtual Dyno comparisons as below for those interested, as you can see extra boost has pushed wheel horse power upto 185hp and brought peak torque of 155ftlbs in much later in revs as boost builds.
Still got some work to do on fueling and ignition maps but its getting there slowly.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-turbovd3.jpg)
Good progress on the tune, keep the torque progressive and the clutch should last another day
I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues
Quote from: KRAMSNEHPETS on November 16, 2019, 20:27I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues
Really.
In that case I'm changing mine
Quote from: KRAMSNEHPETS on November 16, 2019, 20:27I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues
Quote from: KRAMSNEHPETS on November 16, 2019, 20:27I am runnig a standard genuine Toyota 2ZZ clutch with no issues
Thanks, what torque though and at what rpm? Rotrex power delivery is much easier on clutches but you must have a big unit on there at power in your signature :)
Have to look it up! Think it came in at about 220. Yes, power delivery is very linear so not as harsh on the clutch as a turbo would be
Quote from: KRAMSNEHPETS on November 16, 2019, 21:42Have to look it up! Think it came in at about 220. Yes, power delivery is very linear so not as harsh on the clutch as a turbo would be
Would be interested to see a dyno graph if you have one? Bet it's an animal :)
I can confirm marks 2 is a beast!
I've been pondering what I can do to improve things further on install, I think adding some connections to intake pipework to allow me to fit a recirculation dump valve to help turbo life, also want to plumb rear rocker cover vent to pre-turbo side as well to help suck out fumes like it does in stock layout.
Currently I've got the front rocker PCV connected via a catch can to the one fitting on intake pipe tube pre-turbo, this gives it vacumn like stock but without risk of boost pressurising crank case, like it would if left attached to inlet manifold, I know most just add a extra 1way valve into stock layout but I think this is better solution as less risk if valve fails.
Rear rocker vent I've just got a filter on like most do to let it suck/vent air as required, however on car I removed turbo from this was piped to intake tube (where I now have pcv attached) which I think is better for reducing crankcase pressure and sucking out fumes same as oem layout.
Going to mean getting someone to weld some fittings onto pipework as my alloy welding is not so good! I have a local guy in mind so will speak to him next week.
Running a recirculation dv will stop the turbo stall on lift off which sounds good but not good for turbo health longterm.
Also Im thinking of fitting larger oil return to sump, currently it an-8 as kit came with it but i think is borderline especially due to angle of sump fitting.
Will update once I have progress on it all, meanwhile more mapping to do :)
Got a crappy video of it on my phone today so i could hear what it sounds like from outside, its not bad considering how little the silencer is on there! hopefully link below works...
Thanks.
Not bad at all.
Goes to show how effective a muffler the turbo is. Logical too as all the energy of driving the supercharger comes from the exhaust gas.
Much larger sump return fitting arrived today now i just need to fit it and make a new connecting pipe from turbo, probably overkill but im sure the current -8an fitting into sump is borderline flowing enough especially when engine is cold and oil is thicker, if it was straight down into sump it would be fine but its got to turn 90degress into the sump and as the sump side are tapered make it slightly uphill for last part as well which is not helping, so i want to be sure its right before driving it anymore hence the larger fitting etc.
Typically another huge project as come along as well, as in moving house!! so i need to get this sump sorted before i downsize to a smaller garage at the new place which will be ok once ive sorted it but initially will be just throwing everything out of my current double garage in there so no room for tinkering until i get it all sorted out.
I was going to do clutch over xmas as wasnt planning on moving until after then but things changed, probably be the new year now before i get settled into new place and sort garage out so i can change clutch but we will see :D
Busy one today, sump off and larger oil return fitted then cleaned it all up and sealed it back on,i had to modify my existing oil return tube for a more direct route to sump but im still not 100% happy with that and will fabricate a new one as soon as I can, refilled with oil and quick test drive to warm it though and all seems ok so far, a was good to be back in for blast with some boost :)
Refitted some of the heat shielding at sides of exhaust area but think I will leave off the big shield though.
Also fitted new accessory belt as it was looking a sorry state and long overdue a change!
That's probably it for awhile now as I pick up keys to new place next week so that will keep me busy for a little while, as soon as I get chance im going to fabricate the new oil return pipe though as want that done asap so its not to think about again.
Not done a lot on this due to house move over past few weeks but have had a couple of blasts out over xmas on the odd dry day we got, still puts a smile on my face even at low boost :D
I have been working on plan to fit a Windows Tablet install in the dash cubby then i can run the Link software and use it instead of adding gauges, managed to pick up a 7" Linx tablet over xmas so been working on that past few days and got all software installed and working ok intially, also been trying to get USB over wifi working with little usb hub gizzmo to free up USB port but not having a lot of luck, its working just not stable enough due to some latency issue so im going back to cable instead for now, just need to get a bracket made up so its all held secure in cubby, reason for using this tablet is it just fits nicley in cubby when opened so nice and stealthy will get pics once i have something to show..
Turbo wise ive still not fully happy with oil return setup and need to get on with that, now the house move is sorted and garage kind of organised im hoping to get the car inside then i can resolve this problem, replacement turbo is leaking/smoking now so no doubt the oil feed/drain issue isnt working as it should!, although damage could of been done before i fitted the larger pipework but either way it all needs looking at before i sort the turbo seals again, will probably get my original unit refurbed then its ready to go on once im happy with oil supply/drain.
Once thats sorted i can make a plan on clutch upgrade so i can turn up the boost....then i will need to look at intake cooling but thats further down the line.
:)
OK car is squeezed into garage as i need to get this oil drain issue sorted so i can start to have some fun in the car and plan next stage of mods.
When i originally fitted the Turbo kit i wasnt happy with the angle that the turbo core sits at, basically the oil drain which should be directly at bottom in 6 o'clock position is not and infact at quite an angle, as it was like this on previous car and all pipework made to suit (also looks same on pics of TTE kits ive seen which uses same turbo) i presumed it would be ok... WRONG! :) what i should of done is sort that angle out and modify any pipework etc that needed doing right at the start, but i just wanted it all on there so i didnt and so have been fighting this issue of oil backing up in turbo then leaking/smoking.
I replaced the turbo to rule out the seals in that as it was an unknown and looked well abused so hoped replacement might cure it but it didnt help enough, initially it look to of but after some time the leaking/smoking started out of new turbo so oil drain needed sorting, i didnt want to pull the turbo again and it had all supposedly been working ok on previous car i hoped improving/enlarging oil drain pipe and fitting into sump would be enough, this helped a little but not enough so turbo angle needs sorting once and for all which should sort the problem.....i hope!
I was going to replace the turbo again at same time but after speaking to turbo supplier he said the seals should be ok if i sort the draining issue as ive done so little miles etc, so hopefully dont need another one and i thought this was good of him as he could of just sold me another which is why i contacted him.
So ive made a start pulling turbo this week and should have it all off this weekend to sort it, it was nice to see no oil in the air out to intercooler pipes so its only getting into exhaust turbine, hopefully once turbo drain angle is corrected and pipes redone it will be all good.
Will update as i make progress and hopefully get some pictures which might better explain whats going on.
This draining issues sound exactly like the ones that I had
Quote from: 1979scotte on January 25, 2020, 00:14This draining issues sound exactly like the ones that I had
Was yours just the sump fitting being too low or did you have other issues ?
I never figured it out. I thought it was a dodgy turbo bought a new turbo sold the car and got my V6.
The new owner had the same issues and traced it back to the oil return. He has sold it now I believe.
Quote from: 1979scotte on January 25, 2020, 09:51I never figured it out. I thought it was a dodgy turbo bought a new turbo sold the car and got my V6.
The new owner had the same issues and traced it back to the oil return. He has sold it now I believe.
Probably same issue as mine, just had turbo off and done some measuring it turns out in stock saab clocked position the oil drain is 20degrees away from the optimal straight down position, at first i though it was 35deg comparing it to manifold flange so set it at that and refitted, but it was a touch too far due to engine ports being a slight angle, more measuring and turbo back off for more tweaking and now its within a degree or so now of 6 o'clock so should be lot better.
Ive done some research on turbo drain angles and seems +/-15degs is maximum recommended by most but of course more straight down the better, of course rest of pipework plays a part and the TTE kit has a very long roundabout drain pipe which will help a little compared to mine which was pretty much straight down to sump. What i dont know is how the TTE or SP240 kit came when new but i would hope they clocked turbo slightly from standard saab postion to get better draining, as my turbo has been off and rebuilt before i got it at least once who knows who set it all up like it was, when i fitted the recon unit i just checked it was same as what came off and mainly looked at compressor outlet so it matched pipework, i didnt measure core postion but looks to be the same so maybe when old turbo was rebuilt it was done to saab spec and then problems started, 5-10degrees difference would make it worse for sure.
All back together apart the return pipe down to sump, ive chopped up old one and done a mock up for new turbo angle, i could weld it all back together but i want as few joins as possible so just going to get some more tube then i can fab up new pipe and im good to go, fingers crossed once this is done that will be the smokey/leaky turbo issue sorted! if not might go back to NA lol
Not the easiest thing to get picture of but below gives you an idea of difference with old setup being top picture.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/newturboangle.jpg)
OK back on the road today finally, was delayed by getting some tube to fabricate the oil return but all done :D
Im about 80% happy with oil return setup now, new pipe down from turbo came out well but reason for not being 100% happy is the fitting into sump, its a bit longer than i would like and quite a way for oil to travel at near level with little drop so not ideal, and may pull sump again and make better solution but hopefully it will do for now, certainly no sign of leaks or smoke on warm up in garage so fingers crossed that's it sorted, if not only thing left to do is improve sump fitting but be nice if i dont have to pull it off again!
Also decided i need to improve the breather situation as concerned crankcase pressure is higher than it should be which wont be helping oil return either, turbo kit came to me with rear rocker breather/vent re-routed to the turbo intake pipe and the side of rocker cover PCV breather was using stock pipework to throttle body vac source, im not sure if there was an extra 1 way check valve or it was relying on PCV to stop boost entering rocker cover as i didnt remove that pipe to see, i didnt want to rely on PCV or a cheap ebay check valve so went a different way!
What i initially ended up doing was fitting a small filter on rear breather/vent which seems a common solution others have had success with, i then used the port on turbo intake pipe to connect the PCV valve via a catch can as i thought there would be enough vacuum on the intake pipe to help suck out vapours and reduce pressures, but checking it today there is very little vac at low engine speeds at least which is no doubt due to the large diameter intake pipe and slow air speed, basically there has not been much helping reducing pressure in crankcase which wont have been helping my oil return issues!!
I did pan to revist the breathers after initial setup but with everything else ive not got around to it until today.... so ive now connected PCV back onto original vac pipe from throttle body via my catch can and a extra 1way check valve, which i pulled from servo feed pipe on an Subaru Legacy in scrap yard today, i had the brain wave this morning about using one of these so went down to scrappy and got a few from various turbo cars which should be way more reliable than cheap ebay tat! i now have the subaru check valve and PCV in that breather line so hopefully keep boost out the crankcase and suck out the pressure/vapors which i wasnt doing before!
Rear rocker vent i connected back to turbo intake pipe as per the way kit was on the previous car, at least there is some vac rather than breathing to atmosphere which will be better, however i am going to get another check valve so i can connect it back onto its original vac source on throttle body (currently blanked off) as that is large/strong feed so makes sense to get it connected back up to reduce crankcase pressure, will add another catch can in that pipe as well to keep intake clean.
Hopefully get out for a test drive tomorrow see how the new oil drain and breather setup works :D
Pulled car out garage this morning and let it warm up, no leaks visible and no smoke out exhaust...result! :D...took it for a fairly gentle test drive 15miles or so with minimal boosting and still no smoke or leaks....so far so good!
Going to go out for a more brisk run now and few mapping tweaks so will see how we go with more sustained boosting....fingers crossed!
:)
Not a huge amount to report but had some coolant issues which turned out to be nothing but the sensor misreading!, found this after changing thermostat and bleeding it a million times! still at least i know its all good now :)
Got my In-car dash cubby PC display pretty much sorted for viewing data from the Link Ecu, save having lots of gauges i can just run the PCLink software and configure whatever i need to display on there as well as use it to tweak map if i want, bit tricky on small screen but can be done, just need to run the USB cable and tidy bracket up and its all done, will get pic of it all when i remember.
Next job is trackday prep as got myself booked on for Croft on 9th March, mainly just servicing including change oil/filter then strip/clean/grease and bleed the brakes and quick bolt check and that should be it.
I am a little concerned about noise with the current small carbonfibre silencer and while it sounds reasonable level to me and a really nice tone i would rather be safe than risk issues at noise testing, also im not a fan of loud cars and prefer the stealthy approach, plus be nice to reduce drone for longer trips so ordered up a lot of exhaust parts which arrived today, went for biggest silencer i can fit in without changing cat pipework and its a 18" long x 6" diameter 2.5" bore item from everyexhaustpart on Ebay, its their extra quiet version which means it has a trick centre perforated tube with a gap in middle, sort of like 2 silencers inside 1 can from what i can see, so that and few elbows, bit of pipe and some mikalor clamps should be pretty straightforward i hope, just need work out best place for hangers once mocked up on car and make those, pic below of what i have so far...
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/exhaustkit.jpg)
Exhaust is coming along, sounds nice and good bit quieter on initial fire up so happy so far just need a road test, got it mocked up on car with clamps then removed to tack weld exit pipework so it doesnt fall off once it gets hot!, also ive not got any stainless wire or gas for my mig so will get someone who is better at welding stainless to finish it off once im happy with it doing the job, tacks and clamps should hold it for now.
For the hangers i used 6mm stainless threaded bar and made like a long exhaust clamp with one end upto the rubber hangars, think i will upgrade to 8mm though as while it seems solid enough looks a bit thin.
Gained a few kg as the carbon one is very light but needs must, think new is 3kg heavier so sure it wont be a problem.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/newexh1.jpg)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/newexh2.jpg)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/newexh3.jpg)
Had a good exhaust road test yesterday inbetween the awful weather!, so far its perfect for me with a nice sporty sound but much lower in overall volume than the carbon, pottering about at normal speeds and in town much easier to be stealthy also incar noise/drone much reduced as well so more pleasant place to be on longer journeys, still lets you know its a straight through system though once you get on loud pedal and still crackling on overrun so all good :D
Will see how it develops over time as they always sound different after a few miles on them.
Will get a sound clip when/if it ever stops raining for more than 5 minutes, i suspect it will sound a bit quiet on video but we will see, also need to get a slot with my stainless welder guy to finish off fabrication now layout is proven, im tempted to change it to bumper exit but then remember im trying to keep car looking stock as possible so maybe not, easy to do in future though if i wanted :)
Did some mapping tweaks when i was out as well, was a bit rich on top end so leaned that back and need to get out to try the tweaks today.
Quick pic below of the Cubby mounted Windows Linx7 Tablet running PC link, still need to drill a hole to route cables out of sight but you get the idea, tablet is mounted in one of these tablet mounts that is designed to go on car headrest posts for kids in back, i then made a fold down bit of pipe in the cubby to clip it to so easy to remove and bracket folds flat to allow cubby to closed.
Shame i cant get the USB to Wifi hub working consistently but at least with direct cable connection i know its best it can be, just need to keep an eye on tablet battery and thats why i havent got taskbar hidden on current layout, it seems to last for a fair few hours once fully charged so shouldnt be too much of a problem just fully charge it before trackdays etc, also has a cable splitter into tablet so i can switch to either charge or data for connecting to Link Ecu so easy enough to flick between each, unfortunately you cant do both with this tablet.
Beauty of this setup is i can monitor live data from Ecu/Engine without need for extra gauges, need to wire in a oil temp and pressure sensor to Link inputs as future project then i can add those to layout, im able to log directly onto tablet as well at touch of a button which is handy.
I have a small Bluetooth keyboard/mouse pad if i need to do more but its fiddly so will keep using laptop for mapping but it is possible to do everything on tablet if needed.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/cubbypc.jpg)
One of the advantages of running an ecu that isn't from the stone age!! 😂
New exhaust all sorted and working well, ended up getting the exit elbows and pipework after silencer welded as didnt trust the clamps to hold it together due to tight bends etc, also changed the hanger after silencer to 8mm bar as the 6mm was a little weedy, ive left pre-silencer hangar as 6mm but for now ive got some 8mm bar left to replace that as well when i get a minute.
Sounds is really nice i think, cold start and low revs is quiet which is good for my neighbors, pootling around its pretty stealthy and has a nice deep note in midrange when you give it a little right foot, doesnt get loud with revs either and just sounds good to me :)
In a perfect world i would like it as it is with option of even quieter for longer trip as there is some drone when your coasting down off throttle, i think only way to get rid of that is go for a chamber silencer like the OEM ,but of course thats more restrictive, will see what it noise tests at next week.
First Trackday since Turbo install is this coming monday at Croft so will get it noise tested there, forecast looks reasonable at least half the day so hopefully get a few dry laps to see how it performs now, will be keeping a close eye on Intake Air Temperature as that is weakest link i think, fingers crossed its within acceptable limits for me and clutch holds up ok.
New front discs and Carbotech RP2 pads going on this weekend in prep for the trackday, not a compound we usually fit on these light cars but i wanted to test it so will see how it performs compared to the XP8 in there at moment.
Fingers crossed its a fun day an will try and get some videos :)
Coming along nicely. Any vids on track?
You selling the carbon backbox?
Quote from: JB21 on March 6, 2020, 16:55Coming along nicely. Any vids on track?
You selling the carbon backbox?
Will try and get some video at croft, just need to find my camera after moving house!
Not sure what to do with carbon back box will prob keep as spare for now but may sell in future.
Quote from: thetyrant on March 6, 2020, 20:12Quote from: JB21 on March 6, 2020, 16:55Coming along nicely. Any vids on track?
You selling the carbon backbox?
Will try and get some video at croft, just need to find my camera after moving house!
Not sure what to do with carbon back box will prob keep as spare for now but may sell in future.
No worries. Dibs on the carbon exhaust if you do come to sell. Where did you buy it from by the way?
Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how the RP2 pads work 👍
Quote from: JB21 on March 8, 2020, 09:41No worries. Dibs on the carbon exhaust if you do come to sell. Where did you buy it from by the way?
Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how the RP2 pads work 👍
Will let you know if i decide to sell carbon rear box, it was made by PTR exhausts in Brackely for Silverstone Performance and this particular SP turbo kit, its a bit of a work of art so might polish it up and hang it house or if i get carried away loosing weight of car i know there is 3-4kg to be saved by refitting it :D
RP2 Front pads and new Bremtech discs went on yesterday, havent fully bedded pads yet as didnt want to work the new discs too hard right from the off and generally do 50 miles or so of light/medium braking to temper the discs before subjecting them to high temp of pad bedding, got that done yesterday and will give pads a proper workout today but so far from the braking i did yesterday they are going to work well....very well :D
Quote from: thetyrant on March 8, 2020, 10:01Quote from: JB21 on March 8, 2020, 09:41No worries. Dibs on the carbon exhaust if you do come to sell. Where did you buy it from by the way?
Good luck tomorrow. Let us know how the RP2 pads work 👍
Will let you know if i decide to sell carbon rear box, it was made by PTR exhausts in Brackely for Silverstone Performance and this particular SP turbo kit, its a bit of a work of art so might polish it up and hang it house or if i get carried away loosing weight of car i know there is 3-4kg to be saved by refitting it :D
RP2 Front pads and new Bremtech discs went on yesterday, havent fully bedded pads yet as didnt want to work the new discs too hard right from the off and generally do 50 miles or so of light/medium braking to temper the discs before subjecting them to high temp of pad bedding, got that done yesterday and will give pads a proper workout today but so far from the braking i did yesterday they are going to work well....very well :D
Exactly why I wanted the exhaust, weight saving. The OE 1zz box weights a tonne. Any chance of links to the parts for the new box? 😁
Pads sound promising, may go for them if good on track. Will be ordering some XP pads either way in coming weeks.
Quote from: JB21 on March 8, 2020, 10:10Exactly why I wanted the exhaust, weight saving. The OE 1zz box weights a tonne. Any chance of links to the parts for the new box? 😁
Pads sound promising, may go for them if good on track. Will be ordering some XP pads either way in coming weeks.
Sure, below is what i bought to make new exhaust and all this was from everyexhaustpart on ebay, i got them to expand some of elbows so i could slip joint it all where needed, was just going to slip joint and clamp it all but ended up getting exit pipework welded to ensure it doesnt fall off!
Should be same if fitting to stock cat flange just you would need a flange either made or cut off old stock silencer box.
90 degree 2.5" 63mm Tight 1D Mandrel Exhaust Bend T304 Stainless Steel QTY 3
Item price £ 32.00
Quantity 1 set of 3
Item number 112222275939
Universal Extra Quiet 6" Stainless Steel Silencer Muffler Box With Extra Baffles
Item price £ 60.00
Quantity 1
Item number 112677916229
T304 63.5 MM 2.5" APPROX STAINLESS STEEL TUBE EXHAUST PIPE @ 500mm
Item price £ 12.99
Quantity 1
Item number 352221401405
Quote from: thetyrant on March 8, 2020, 11:20Quote from: JB21 on March 8, 2020, 10:10Exactly why I wanted the exhaust, weight saving. The OE 1zz box weights a tonne. Any chance of links to the parts for the new box? 😁
Pads sound promising, may go for them if good on track. Will be ordering some XP pads either way in coming weeks.
Sure, below is what i bought to make new exhaust and all this was from everyexhaustpart on ebay, i got them to expand some of elbows so i could slip joint it all where needed, was just going to slip joint and clamp it all but ended up getting exit pipework welded to ensure it doesnt fall off!
Should be same if fitting to stock cat flange just you would need a flange either made or cut off old stock silencer box.
90 degree 2.5" 63mm Tight 1D Mandrel Exhaust Bend T304 Stainless Steel QTY 3
Item price £ 32.00
Quantity 1 set of 3
Item number 112222275939
Universal Extra Quiet 6" Stainless Steel Silencer Muffler Box With Extra Baffles
Item price £ 60.00
Quantity 1
Item number 112677916229
T304 63.5 MM 2.5" APPROX STAINLESS STEEL TUBE EXHAUST PIPE @ 500mm
Item price £ 12.99
Quantity 1
Item number 352221401405
That's great Ian, thank you. Would you say this set up is considerably lighter than the stock unit?
Quote from: JB21 on March 8, 2020, 11:22That's great Ian, thank you. Would you say this set up is considerably lighter than the stock unit?
I would think so but will weigh my stock backbox and let you know, new one with all pipes is around 7kg from memory
I didnt weigh mine but apparently stock silencer is 12.8kg according to Spyderchat :D
Quote from: thetyrant on March 8, 2020, 11:29I didnt weigh mine but apparently stock silencer is 12.8kg according to Spyderchat :D
That's great. I'll just use the flange of my blown cobra back box.
Quote from: JB21 on March 8, 2020, 11:33That's great. I'll just use the flange of my blown cobra back box.
From memory the stock pipework is just under 2.5" diameter so 1st elbow from this to silencer will need to be different size each end if replicating what ive done, im sure when i was initially planning this on n/a motor i found someone who did a reducer elbow so it would slide over stock pipework after cutting off flange going upto 2.5" into silencer, im sure the people i got my parts off would do one as they were very helpful for me.
This morning ive been fettling a few small jobs ready for tomorrow.
First up was to redrill turbo actuator bracket to give arm a little more clearance from exhaust pipework out of turbo, plenty of clearance when cold ( 5mm or so) but once hot its nearly touching it with way exhaust expands/moves! now ive got about 10mm clearance now so hopefully that will be enough and once hot later i will check.
I plan to re-route exhaust route from turbo to cat in future as while its a work of art and nice compact route from turbo to down under subframe its all very tight!...will bring it from turbo exit flange straight back over top of subframe then down and into cat, i noticed on Dick Sloans SP turbo setup it goes that way.
Also modified the bracket for my fire extinguisher mounting to go onto passenger seat front mountings, this bracket has been in about 4 of my cars now! each time with small tweak it does the job :)
Drilled a hole in dash cubby side so i could route my usb cables (1 charge, 1 data) for incar PC to tidy up wiring.
Found my little HD bullet cam and trying to find a way to mount incar nicely, no joy yet might be a job for next time or get new camera as its not great one, will stick it on outside for some footage if i remember :D
Brakes bedded in this afternoon, good run out including a blast up and down my favourite local road Hartside pass :) had some fun with a Focus ST on way back down think he got a shock when he couldnt shake me off, i would of passed him if i had known road was clear :D
Pic of front wheel after bedding in, quite a dusty pad but man does it stop the car :D
brakesbedded1.jpg
And a few after cleaning all ready for trackday tomorrow :)
march2020-1.jpg
march2020-2.jpg
march2020-3.jpg
Quote from: thetyrant on March 8, 2020, 15:38Brakes bedded in this afternoon, good run out including a blast up and down my favourite local road Hartside pass :) had some fun with a Focus ST on way back down think he got a shock when he couldnt shake me off, i would of passed him if i had known road was clear :D
Pic of front wheel after bedding in, quite a dusty pad but man does it stop the car :D
brakesbedded1.jpg
And a few after cleaning all ready for trackday tomorrow :)
march2020-1.jpg
march2020-2.jpg
march2020-3.jpg
Thye do make quite a fun sleeper car don't they 😂
Back home in 1 piece after pretty successful trackday at Croft :) managed just over 100 track miles and car never missed a beat, track stayed dry most of the day with just a few light showers towards end of afternoon but it never really got wet on track and was even quite warm out of the wind when sun was out.
Started day with some concerns about blue smoke out the back on sighting laps but it was just coming out the hairpin on start/finish straight, looks like oil getting passed seals in turbo most likely due to the oil return im still not 100% happy with, i just kept sessions short (6-7 laps) and kept an eye on the oil level and had no other issues, i did have to top it up a little at lunchtime but never got below half on the dipstick so nothing terrible but needs sorting.
Im not sure if its the turbo seal itself leaking from when i had previous revision of oil drain to sump and breather setup, or the oil drain is still not just flowing enough and its backing up in turbo, i think its probably both so first job is get sump off and make a belt and braces drain setup to ensure there is no more problems there, will probably replace turbo again as well as its cheaper than refurbing but will see how oil drain works out.
Intake temps were my other concern and while as expected it was higher than ideal it wasn't terrible, in the morning with sun out i was sat mostly around 45c IAT until i started to really rev it out (which makes more boost due to creep) then IAT just started to nudge 50c but seemed to peak at that and didnt go any higher, in the afternoon sun had gone in so slightly cooler air and 40c was about the norm with occasional peaks of 45c if using all the revs/more boost so not bad considering the little air to air IC in front of gearbox.
Of course will be much better for trackdays with a water to air chargecooler as discussed but at least i know for now that i can at least get by with this IC and on the road its plenty capable, also for sprint events i do it should be ok as well so no urgency to change it until boost goes up at later date once i do the clutch.
Other than above car was spot on, front tyres are well past their best but held on ok just felt a bit squidgy, suspension again coped well but the soft Tein springs are not firm enough for really pushing on track so another project for future, capable enough just a bit soft.
Noise test on new exhaust went well at 92db so quieter than i tested there with totally stock car which was 93db!
Fuel consumption after 50mile drive over to scotch corner services to top it up before getting to track worked out at 38mpg so happy with that, it was mostly off boost but did have to climb over stainmore and lot of dual carriageway speeds, in total i used a full tank of fuel +£10 topup to get 60miles there then do 100 track miles and 60miles back home, not bad considering.
Quote from: thetyrant on March 9, 2020, 19:02Back home in 1 piece after pretty successful trackday at Croft :) managed just over 100 track miles and car never missed a beat, track stayed dry most of the day with just a few light showers towards end of afternoon but it never really got wet on track and was even quite warm out of the wind when sun was out.
Started day with some concerns about blue smoke out the back on sighting laps but it was just coming out the hairpin on start/finish straight, looks like oil getting passed seals in turbo most likely due to the oil return im still not 100% happy with, i just kept sessions short (6-7 laps) and kept an eye on the oil level and had no other issues, i did have to top it up a little at lunchtime but never got below half on the dipstick so nothing terrible but needs sorting.
Im not sure if its the turbo seal itself leaking from when i had previous revision of oil drain to sump and breather setup, or the oil drain is still not just flowing enough and its backing up in turbo, i think its probably both so first job is get sump off and make a belt and braces drain setup to ensure there is no more problems there, will probably replace turbo again as well as its cheaper than refurbing but will see how oil drain works out.
Intake temps were my other concern and while as expected it was higher than ideal it wasn't terrible, in the morning with sun out i was sat mostly around 45c IAT until i started to really rev it out (which makes more boost due to creep) then IAT just started to nudge 50c but seemed to peak at that and didnt go any higher, in the afternoon sun had gone in so slightly cooler air and 40c was about the norm with occasional peaks of 45c if using all the revs/more boost so not bad considering the little air to air IC in front of gearbox.
Of course will be much better for trackdays with a water to air chargecooler as discussed but at least i know for now that i can at least get by with this IC and on the road its plenty capable, also for sprint events i do it should be ok as well so no urgency to change it until boost goes up at later date once i do the clutch.
Other than above car was spot on, front tyres are well past their best but held on ok just felt a bit squidgy, suspension again coped well but the soft Tein springs are not firm enough for really pushing on track so another project for future, capable enough just a bit soft.
Noise test on new exhaust went well at 92db so quieter than i tested there with totally stock car which was 93db!
Fuel consumption after 50mile drive over to scotch corner services to top it up before getting to track worked out at 38mpg so happy with that, it was mostly off boost but did have to climb over stainmore and lot of dual carriageway speeds, in total i used a full tank of fuel +£10 topup to get 60miles there then do 100 track miles and 60miles back home, not bad considering.
How were the pads?
Great first shake down :)
Quote from: JB21 on March 9, 2020, 19:11How were the pads?
Awesome as expected and more stopping power than my tyres but still able to control it no problem, lifespan is the key on this compound so more of a longterm test on that one, i just wanted to see if it would work on a light/low powered car and it did, XP10 is probably a better starting point for you though i think.
Small update, obviously with the lockdown car has hardly moved for past few weeks and with all the free time on my hands now im off work ive been pondering next move!
I have considered pulling off the turbo and selling it then going back the NA route for more serious track build (when they open!) possibly 2zz as well, however its more just for something to do than anything else as i love the building as much as the driving! and with no driving to do i dont not what to do next lol
However for now i want to stop this smoking issue which seems to be getting worse before i give up and pull off the turbo, ive yet to compression test engine but im sure its ok as never had issue before going turbo and ive not done a lot of miles or ran much boost into it to damage anything, most likley culprit is still the turbo backing up oil from the return to sump as ive still not got it as good as i want it so thats what im working on now.
Got the car up in the air today to take some measurements on this sump issue and now have a plan, im on fabricating a new sump fitting to give a much better flow path into sump, will get some pics and details when i get further on with it all but fingers crossed this will be last time i have to remove the sump to sort it!
Wish me luck :D
Ok new fitting welded up by welder man, took longer than normal due to lockdown but he has it done and back with me now :)
Oil is ordered so hopefully that arrives as planned tomorrow and ive made a start stripping car down ready to drop sump off now.
Couple of pics showing the old fitting into sump and the new one next to it, new one ive made with a angle of approx 30deg relative to the flange that will mount to sump back face, this will give me a slight downhill into the sump whereas at the moment its slightly uphill due to way the sump face angles towards front of car, i dont understand why more people dont have issues with this when just putting a fitting straight onto that back face as the angle is all wrong, i guess it depends on length of pipework from turbo and oil flow etc, ive read TTE revised their oil drain pipe to make it longer i think? whcih was to help with this as people were having smoking turbos, mine is a short direct run down from turbo so any restriction/uphill is soon backing oil into turbo.
oilretold&new.jpg
Also please to see intercooler entry is nice and clean with no oil getting through that side of turbo, or engine breathing to heavy into it from rear valve cover vent which is plumbed in pre-turbo to intake pipe.
inter1.jpg
Ok time to get this sump off and clean everything up to get this fitting in place, ive made a fishplate with captive nuts to go on inside face of sump to hopefully clamp everything nice and tight, need to trim it once sump is off though.
2ZZ all the way Ian, you know deep down its the only real option ;D
Quote from: JB21 on April 8, 2020, 13:412ZZ all the way Ian, you know deep down its the only real option ;D
Haha yes but im too concerned about the quality of used engines these days (hence why i went turbo really) and dont really want to rebuild, i know i will get carried away doing that and spend a fortune building a 500hp capable motor lol!
Will see what happens when i get this sump back on, shame i cant really drive it to test but should be able to get a reasonable idea with a few runs to shop and back, enjoying working on it again even if it is the nasty job of removing sump and cleaning it all up.
Got it all apart before stopping to feed, sump is cleaned up and ready to drill 2 new mounting holes, fishplate to go on inside im just tweaking now to make sure it all fits nicely. Im hoping i have enough sealant left as my local halfords is shut so will be a mission to get more locally, got half a tube so should be ok as its the fat end of tube left and thin end did last change :)
Getting there now, its so hot out the back in sun where ive been working on it ive had to come in for a drink and cool off!
All sorted, cleaned and painted just waiting for it to dry then i can bolt/seal the return fitting on, probably leave fitting sump onto the engine until tomorrow so i can give it another clean out to be sure its spotless.
Will get some pics once assembled but below is comparison of fittings ive used..
Top one is a -10an fitting i put in 1st to mate upto the Blue AN fitting elbow that came with kit, kit came with EP sump that this blue fitting was onto but i sold that sump so bought the black bulkhead fitting to go into stock sump, this was too small ID imo at approx 9.8mm and angle not great either, might of been better in EP sump but it was a bit low down on that as well.
Bottom one is one ive been running since i removed above, this is a 19mm OD hose tail fitting with 13mm ID, not bad just wrong angle, i was hoping the larger ID would be enough to offset the angle but seems not and quite a long fitting as well which didnt help.
Middle one is what ive fabricated from a piece of 4mm plate and 19mm OD x 16mm ID tube, as you can see the angle is much greater and while it looks very steep when bolted onto sump and car on level ground its not that steep into sump, pipework from turbo is made from same size tube and just a silicone elbow joins them up, size wise i think im well covered and hopefully with the better angle we get rid of turbo leak/smoke.
oilfittings.jpg
Final progress report for today, did a mockup on the car and needed to tweak length of tube on both turbo drain and sump fitting, got it all sorted and then new fitting sealed onto sump :)... now just need to final clean and bolt up onto engine tomorrow and fill her up with oil :D
Few pics below, 1st end on view of difference between old straight fitting and new angled one.
sumpcompare1.jpg
Next some pics of it mocked up on car and one showing inside fishplate etc..
mockup1.jpg
sumpinside1.jpg
Last one, final mockup after trimming tubes and my silcone fluro-lined elbow in place
mockup2.jpg
Todays jobs all completed, sump refitted with new sealant and turbo drain pipework all connected back up with new gasket at turbo end, new oil filter on and sparkplugs removed to give them a quick visual inspection and check gaps, they look nice and even across all 4 with good colour.
Going to leave it overnight for sealant to go fully off then tomorrow fill up with new oil thats just arrived and see what happens!
Pipework...
oilreturn09042020.jpg
Plug..
plug-09042020.jpg
OK update time! yesterday filled up with oil then warmed it up in garage to check for oil leaks, all seems good on that front which is a bonus :), took it for a test drive to the shops and was able to put it through its paces a little but its still blue smoking! although it does seem less than before it still does it when you boot it from low revs, cant see much as revs go up as it was quite windy so smoke doesnt hang around long and ive got to watch where im going! Couldnt do a lot of miles maybe 10 max due to lockdown.
It could just be some residue from before i sorted the drain pipework so will do some more miles when i get opportunity and see if it improves, damn lockdown is a pest for testing stuff like this as i would normally do a long drive to get some more info.
Im starting to think its the motor now though and not the turbo! it could still be the turbine side seal on turbo is leaking a little but its only done around 1000 miles and even if there was a little leaking past to cause the smoking i dont think it would drop oil level so much, the way these turbo seals work it would usually need to be very bad to cause any noticable oil usage and make lots more smoke than it is in the progress, i noticed on trackday it was using it and had to keep it topped up through the day, not a huge amount but i didnt do a massive amount of miles so i guess all things considered it was using more than is ideal.
Im thinking a compression test is next on cards to see what cylinder pressures are like, car runs perfect other than the smoking and plugs looked ok as above so its a bit odd, i know a compression test wont tell the full story but its easy to do and will give me an idea, i just need to get my hands on compression tester now as cant go into work for it, might pop to halfords if im passing on way for other essentials.
Engine history for reference, its a 2005 car and presume original engine, done 105k now and i bought at 96k, full toyota service history with previous owners and last one removed pre-cat manifold at approx 93k and i got it with car precats looks perfect to me. Its always run sweet as a nut and Ive never really had to top oil up much between changes since i got it including track use, its only since turbo its started smoking and using it, as previous posts i had put this down to turbo but pretty sure that is all good now which only leaves the motor, could be bores/pistons or stem seals i guess but engine doesnt seem to breathe heavy and get very little blowby residue in my catch can on PCV line so not sure.
Hopefully get a drive on sunday as need to get shopping for my parents and take it through so will see how that goes and decide from there, fingers crossed smoke reduces and all is good but im not optimistic on it lol :D
I have everything to put it back to N/A apart from the 2 crush ring gaskets for manifold to cat pipe, if anyone reading this has some spare let me know please :)
I still reckon it's the turbo, I had issues with a rebuild turbo that smoked the supplying company blamed the engine and drainage.
But funny enough after replacing for a different turbo the issue stopped.
Quote from: s12vea on April 11, 2020, 12:45I still reckon it's the turbo, I had issues with a rebuild turbo that smoked the supplying company blamed the engine and drainage.
But funny enough after replacing for a different turbo the issue stopped.
It could be yes, ive just had a run out to shops and no smoke on start up or just pottering about town with little to no boost/revs etc, however heading home there is a longish hill where im coasting down on engine braking for maybe 30secs and when i hit accelerator at bottom big cloud of blue smoke!....thats more like valve stem seal issues ive seen in past, but they often cause smoke on startup as well which im not getting! weird one.
So today this happened! :o :o
turbooff.jpg
Turbo looks free from oil in turbine and return pipework was totally drained of oil unlike previous where i would get some build up that drained when i removed elbow, so thats the good news! turbo and new drain pipework etc all seem in good order and working as they should :)
Now the bad news! :( :( pics below looking into exhaust ports, as you can see we have some oil seepage or evidence of on most of the valves, so stem seals are shot :-\
cyl1.fromleft.jpg
cyl2-fromleft.jpg
cyl3-fromleft.jpg
cyl4-fromleft.jpg
So what to do now!....i really dont want to pull the head off to do these as from what i can see and have read about getting head out with engine in place is a proper mare! anyone done it care to comment ?
At least it looks like ive found the source of the smoke, although i dont know what bores/pistons/rings are like so i need to do a compression test to get an idea on that i guess.
Im starting to think engine will have to come out and a 2zz might go in its place! pondering all the options now.
Quote from: thetyrant on April 12, 2020, 16:24So today this happened! :o :o
turbooff.jpg
Turbo looks free from oil in turbine and return pipework was totally drained of oil unlike previous where i would get some build up that drained when i removed elbow, so thats the good news! turbo and new drain pipework etc all seem in good order and working as they should :)
Now the bad news! :( :( pics below looking into exhaust ports, as you can see we have some oil seepage or evidence of on most of the valves, so stem seals are shot :-\
cyl1.fromleft.jpg
cyl2-fromleft.jpg
cyl3-fromleft.jpg
cyl4-fromleft.jpg
So what to do now!....i really dont want to pull the head off to do these as from what i can see and have read about getting head out with engine in place is a proper mare! anyone done it care to comment ?
At least it looks like ive found the source of the smoke, although i dont know what bores/pistons/rings are like so i need to do a compression test to get an idea on that i guess.
Im starting to think engine will have to come out and a 2zz might go in its place! pondering all the options now.
Yes I've done the head off and on, in the car. Probably quicker to drop the engine. The biggest pig is the hose on the back of the head that goes to the oil warmer/cooler. The JDM car doesn't have that so I reckon my MR S would be easier.
Quote from: Carolyn on April 12, 2020, 19:35Yes I've done the head off and on, in the car. Probably quicker to drop the engine. The biggest pig is the hose on the back of the head that goes to the oil warmer/cooler. The JDM car doesn't have that so I reckon my MR S would be easier.
Thanks for that it does look an absolute pig to get off in car with that inlet manifold!
Quote from: thetyrant on April 12, 2020, 19:41Quote from: Carolyn on April 12, 2020, 19:35Yes I've done the head off and on, in the car. Probably quicker to drop the engine. The biggest pig is the hose on the back of the head that goes to the oil warmer/cooler. The JDM car doesn't have that so I reckon my MR S would be easier.
Thanks for that it does look an absolute pig to get off in car with that inlet manifold!
The inlet manifold is pretty easy to get loose from the head. It's the other stuff that's attached to the head that all adds up.
Looking at your valves, I'd be wanting to clean the backs of them up - which we do on the lathe. Anyway,
if you're going to get the valves all the way out- you have to pull the head.
I must say, (looking at your pics) I do doubt that your valve seals are the totality of the problem. I strongly suspect your rings are buggered too.
So, I'd say drop the engine, open it up and do rings, honing, head refurbish and big end shells....
Quote from: Carolyn on April 12, 2020, 19:50The inlet manifold is pretty easy to get loose from the head. It's the other stuff that's attached to the head that all adds up.
Looking at your valves, I'd be wanting to clean the backs of them up - which we do on the lathe. Anyway,
if you're going to get the valves all the way out- you have to pull the head.
I must say, (looking at your pics) I do doubt that your valve seals are the totality of the problem. I strongly suspect your rings are buggered too.
So, I'd say drop the engine, open it up and do rings, honing, head refurbish and big end shells....
Thanks for input its much appreciated, other issues apart from the stem seals are my concern and if i go through all the hassle of changing them ive still 105k engine which like you say could probably do with at least rings/hone etc, if i pull it apart that much i wouldnt want to put back stock internals and at least stronger rods.
Anyone know if you can get stronger forged rods to go on stock pistons ? i know in my Evo days we used to do what was known as a "rod job" which was basically pop out rods and pistons, fit forged rods onto stock piston then refit and engine was then safe for 500hp with no other machining needed, was good cheap mod as long as mileage wasnt crazy and bores in good shape worked well. You can also get stock bore forged pistons for them but bit risky fitting them without a rebore, tended to be on smaller size which mean noisy and oil usage so not ideal unless just a big boost track engine.
So at the moment im going to put it back to NA then i can drive if needed and weigh up my options.
Todays job is remove rest of turbo kit and fit my old manifold cat etc then all i need is some crush rings for exhaust and its alive again, Turbo kit may or may not be for sale depending on which way i go next but if anyone is looking for a SP240 kit let me know we can chat :)
Quote from: thetyrant on April 13, 2020, 07:31Quote from: Carolyn on April 12, 2020, 19:50The inlet manifold is pretty easy to get loose from the head. It's the other stuff that's attached to the head that all adds up.
Looking at your valves, I'd be wanting to clean the backs of them up - which we do on the lathe. Anyway,
if you're going to get the valves all the way out- you have to pull the head.
I must say, (looking at your pics) I do doubt that your valve seals are the totality of the problem. I strongly suspect your rings are buggered too.
So, I'd say drop the engine, open it up and do rings, honing, head refurbish and big end shells....
Thanks for input its much appreciated, other issues apart from the stem seals are my concern and if i go through all the hassle of changing them ive still 105k engine which like you say could probably do with at least rings/hone etc, if i pull it apart that much i wouldnt want to put back stock internals and at least stronger rods.
Anyone know if you can get stronger forged rods to go on stock pistons ? i know in my Evo days we used to do what was known as a "rod job" which was basically pop out rods and pistons, fit forged rods onto stock piston then refit and engine was then safe for 500hp with no other machining needed, was good cheap mod as long as mileage wasnt crazy and bores in good shape worked well. You can also get stock bore forged pistons for them but bit risky fitting them without a rebore, tended to be on smaller size which mean noisy and oil usage so not ideal unless just a big boost track engine.
So at the moment im going to put it back to NA then i can drive if needed and weigh up my options.
Todays job is remove rest of turbo kit and fit my old manifold cat etc then all i need is some crush rings for exhaust and its alive again, Turbo kit may or may not be for sale depending on which way i go next but if anyone is looking for a SP240 kit let me know we can chat :)
You can use Molnar rods on the stock pistons but if I was doing that Id fit both pistons and rods. I read somewhere that stock pistons can do around 300 hp.
Quote from: Nvy on April 13, 2020, 08:13You can use Molnar rods on the stock pistons but if I was doing that Id fit both pistons and rods. I read somewhere that stock pistons can do around 300 hp.
Ok thanks another option then, problem with uprating pistons as well its then a full engine build as you need to rebore to suit, if stock pistons are good to 300 then makes sense to keep saves reboring/full strip if bores are honeable of course, then coupled with stronger rods and new rod bearings should make a strong enough engine
for minimal expense.
So far my options are as below.
- Run current engine as is in NA form and just keep topping up oil and putting up with smoke!
- Replace just valve stems seals in situ and take a risk on rest of engine health, na or turbo optional
- Strip this engine and do part build with new stems seals, clean up head, pistons/rings/hone etc
- As above but used stronger rods (molnar?)
- I also have chance of another smoker 1zz engine cheap which might be an option to build although if bores are bad could get expensive.
- Fit 2zz motor!
HMMM
Quote from: thetyrant on April 13, 2020, 08:32Quote from: Nvy on April 13, 2020, 08:13You can use Molnar rods on the stock pistons but if I was doing that Id fit both pistons and rods. I read somewhere that stock pistons can do around 300 hp.
Ok thanks another option then, problem with uprating pistons as well its then a full engine build as you need to rebore to suit, if stock pistons are good to 300 then makes sense to keep saves reboring/full strip if bores are honeable of course, then coupled with stronger rods and new rod bearings should make a strong enough engine
for minimal expense.
So far my options are as below.
- Run current engine as is in NA form and just keep topping up oil and putting up with smoke!
- Replace just valve stems seals in situ and take a risk on rest of engine health, na or turbo optional
- Strip this engine and do part build with new stems seals, clean up head, pistons/rings/hone etc
- As above but used stronger rods (molnar?)
- I also have chance of another smoker 1zz engine cheap which might be an option to build although if bores are bad could get expensive.
- Fit 2zz motor!
HMMM
Price wise 2zz and your bottom end fully built will run the same money. Building the engine will ensure that you have everything brand new and wont rely on luck for the 2zz engine.
Quote from: Nvy on April 13, 2020, 08:53Price wise 2zz and your bottom end fully built will run the same money. Building the engine will ensure that you have everything brand new and wont rely on luck for the 2zz engine.
Indeed and I have a chance of a rebuilt 2zz which is the one im pondering, im not sure i would risk a used one these days
Quote from: thetyrant on April 13, 2020, 08:59Quote from: Nvy on April 13, 2020, 08:53Price wise 2zz and your bottom end fully built will run the same money. Building the engine will ensure that you have everything brand new and wont rely on luck for the 2zz engine.
Indeed and I have a chance of a rebuilt 2zz which is the one im pondering, im not sure i would risk a used one these days
Matt is reputable around here if I am connecting the name to the forum profile correctly. So Id buy with confidence if you are not in the turbo stuff. I am not going for crazy numbers and decided to keep my 1zz because the 2zz is rly hard to register.
Quote from: thetyrant on April 13, 2020, 08:59Quote from: Nvy on April 13, 2020, 08:53Price wise 2zz and your bottom end fully built will run the same money. Building the engine will ensure that you have everything brand new and wont rely on luck for the 2zz engine.
Indeed and I have a chance of a rebuilt 2zz which is the one im pondering, im not sure i would risk a used one these days
I'd personally steer clear of a rebuilt 2ZZ by *anyone* due to the MMC bores.
Best bet is to buy a car with a 2ZZ in it, the best you can find and drive it for a few weeks to asses long term viability.
Quote from: Nvy on April 13, 2020, 09:12Matt is reputable around here if I am connecting the name to the forum profile correctly. So Id buy with confidence if you are not in the turbo stuff. I am not going for crazy numbers and decided to keep my 1zz because the 2zz is rly hard to register.
Yes Matts is one im looking at as a possible, i love the turbo power delivery but starting to wonder if NA is going to be better for me for track use... if they ever reopen! i bought the car initially to 2zz swap but had a fun year at stock power getting used to the chasses and sorting other bits on car before starting to look for power, then i got chance of turbo kit so i thought i would try it but my engine seems a bit far gone to be pushing it though :(
Only issue i have with rebuilding 1zz is i know im going to get carried away and sink silly money into it, also i have no good local machine shops so bit of traveling for that which all adds to hassle expense, its an option though.
Quote from: Alex Knight on April 13, 2020, 09:40I'd personally steer clear of a rebuilt 2ZZ by *anyone* due to the MMC bores.
Best bet is to buy a car with a 2ZZ in it, the best you can find and drive it for a few weeks to asses long term viability.
I am very wary due to this and going through details of whats been done with Matt.
Got the rest of turbo bits off today and then stock exhaust/cat and intake etc fitted, its still got Link ecu with wideband and larger injectors etc in there as they can stay on till i work out what im doing. Its quite a bit of work to remove the ECU as i have to swap back the complete engine harness which is a fiddly job!.
Gave here a quick fire up to see if i missed anything and all was good, just a bit noisy as not got any crush rings between cat and manifold!, should have some new ones this week then at least its driveable until i make a decision on next plan of action!
Depending how long lockdown lasts I might be tempted to change the valve stem seals and see how she runs in short term, i just need to motivate myself!
Got new oem exhaust gaskets from Steve at GT4play and all fitted last night, quick test drive to shops and i was both pleased and unhappy to see that its still smoking when blipping throttle etc, in some ways i was hoping it wouldnt and engine was ok, but on other side it confirms it wasnt the turbo causing the smoke! Feels very slow in comparison to driving it couple of days before!
Turbo kit is now provisionally sold to another member on here, just need to remove the Link ecu/wideband etc and swap back over engine harness, ordered a new cheap sump off ebay as this one with oil return is to remove again! as its going with rest of kit.
Its been a shorter experience than i hoped with a turbo 1zz but what i have done ive really enojoyed, transforms the car and even at low boost ive been running so far was a proper little flying machine :D
Ive got some valve stem seals coming and going to change them to help reduce oil smoke/usage and make a plan what to do next, i might still go 2zz or possibly just leave it stock and use as my daily over summer and swap my BMW daily for something else for interesting instead, we will see as nothing much can happen until after lockdown anyhows!
Quote from: thetyrant on April 16, 2020, 13:34Got new oem exhaust gaskets from Steve at GT4play and all fitted last night, quick test drive to shops and i was both pleased and unhappy to see that its still smoking when blipping throttle etc, in some ways i was hoping it wouldnt and engine was ok, but on other side it confirms it wasnt the turbo causing the smoke! Feels very slow in comparison to driving it couple of days before!
Turbo kit is now provisionally sold to another member on here, just need to remove the Link ecu/wideband etc and swap back over engine harness, ordered a new cheap sump off ebay as this one with oil return is to remove again! as its going with rest of kit.
Its been a shorter experience than i hoped with a turbo 1zz but what i have done ive really enojoyed, transforms the car and even at low boost ive been running so far was a proper little flying machine :D
Ive got some valve stem seals coming and going to change them to help reduce oil smoke/usage and make a plan what to do next, i might still go 2zz or possibly just leave it stock and use as my daily over summer and swap my BMW daily for something else for interesting instead, we will see as nothing much can happen until after lockdown anyhows!
Has it has a new PCV valve in your ownership?
Quote from: Carolyn on April 16, 2020, 13:48Has it has a new PCV valve in your ownership?
No ive not fitted one and looking back through the history i cant see its had one so presume original, i have given it a basic test and seems ok also have a extra 1way valve in the PCV line due to turbo so hopefully all is good there, i will pop PCV out again though and give it another check, probably worth replacing it anyhows ?
Quote from: thetyrant on April 16, 2020, 18:52Quote from: Carolyn on April 16, 2020, 13:48Has it has a new PCV valve in your ownership?
No ive not fitted one and looking back through the history i cant see its had one so presume original, i have given it a basic test and seems ok also have a extra 1way valve in the PCV line due to turbo so hopefully all is good there, i will pop PCV out again though and give it another check, probably worth replacing it anyhows ?
There's no simple way to check it. The spring tension has to be spot on and the spring loses tension over time. It's a 30,000 mile item.
However - it does seem like a quite worn engine. My local post office is not in operation, but I'll get the valve spring tool and seals out to you tomorrow.
Quote from: Carolyn on April 16, 2020, 18:59There's no simple way to check it. The spring tension has to be spot on and the spring loses tension over time. It's a 30,000 mile item.
However - it does seem like a quite worn engine. My local post office is not in operation, but I'll get the valve spring tool and seals out to you tomorrow.
Ok thanks, no panic on the tool/seals as ive got plenty to be doing in meantime so just when your next passing an open PO is fine, dont make a special trip and put yourself at risk
Well thats the car totally back to stock and after finishing swapping over engine harness and injectors this morning, fired up first turn of the key and sat idling nicely with no error codes... so far :) will pop down to shops in a mo to pick up some essentials and make sure its running as it should and if so im going to order up a new PCV valve as a treat for its good behavior :) as in still working after ive totally ripped out all its veins and refitted a different set :D
New sump has arrived from ebay this morning and looks ok, thats last part to swap over when i can build up motivation!
Quote from: thetyrant on April 17, 2020, 11:44Well thats the car totally back to stock and after finishing swapping over engine harness and injectors this morning, fired up first turn of the key and sat idling nicely with no error codes... so far :) will pop down to shops in a mo to pick up some essentials and make sure its running as it should and if so im going to order up a new PCV valve as a treat for its good behavior :) as in still working after ive totally ripped out all its veins and refitted a different set :D
New sump has arrived from ebay this morning and looks ok, thats last part to swap over when i can build up motivation!
Valve tool and seals are on their way.