Well it's taken long enough but I've finally got around to fitting the TRD intake pipe I brought from another member.
Still got to remove the wheel liner and rest of the intake, hopefully get that done tomorrow.
Here's a few pictures of it in comparison to the markiii pipe which I believe was made to replica the TRD.
The TRD is definitely lighter and made of a thinner metal. It also fits the air box perfectly.
Will update once it's all installed & test driven :)
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Quote from: Amarlborough on March 16, 2020, 15:31Well it's taken long enough but I've finally got around to fitting the TRD intake pipe I brought from another member.
Still got to remove the wheel liner and rest of the intake, hopefully get that done tomorrow.
Here's a few pictures of it in comparison to the markiii pipe which I believe was made to replica the TRD.
The TRD is definitely lighter and made of a thinner metal. It also fits the air box perfectly.
Will update once it's all installed & test driven :)
29515332-F475-4D22-8008-222C8DE7F4C4.jpeg
BEE256DB-2725-43E4-84F1-D7E34B70C812.jpeg
FD2173D4-E2BE-422E-AE46-C22B4A8DC658.jpeg
8B80FBF0-3530-4081-B652-50FD0E7C46D9.jpeg
First time I've actually seen it. Quite interesting.
I did buy a velocity stack to stick to the end of my markiii pipe but no idea where it is now.
Do you have any kind of testing planned.
@Amarlborough , having only previously seen the markii, and now seeing them both compared, the markiii looks like the prototype for the TRD!
@shnazzle same for me, it is a lovely piece. Probably only the seat of the bum test haven't really got any equipment to give it a scientific one :)
@Joesson yes the creator of the markiii pipe did an excellent job. Just by eye it seems to match the TRD exactly apart from the trumpet. The TRD fits perfectly snug into the air box were as the markiii needed some tape as a gasket to get it airtight.
Looking forward to seeing and hearing it Adam. ;D
Only just missed out on sc. Lóve it. So did my own version. Deducted the wheel well and modded the OEM elbow with a bell mouth.
Quote from: Petrus on March 16, 2020, 20:41Only just missed out on sc. Lóve it. So did my own version. Deducted the wheel well and modded the OEM elbow with a bell mouth.
Any pictures of the bell mouth Petrus?
Likely to be in the southern belle thread.
Might take a bit of scrolling.
Quote from: Ardent on March 16, 2020, 22:45Likely to be in the southern belle thread.
Yes, would be off topic here ;-)
QuoteMight take a bit of scrolling.
Might be worth it ;-)
sorry to ask a stupid question but does the markiii need a bell mouth fitting like the TRD?
and are they both designed to fit into the air box without needing to connect to the wheel arch cold air feed?
Quote from: Smithy on March 18, 2020, 12:38sorry to ask a stupid question but does the markiii need a bell mouth fitting like the TRD?
and are they both designed to fit into the air box without needing to connect to the wheel arch cold air feed?
No it will make little to no difference in the real world
Quote from: Smithy on March 18, 2020, 12:38sorry to ask a stupid question but does the markiii need a bell mouth fitting like the TRD?
and are they both designed to fit into the air box without needing to connect to the wheel arch cold air feed?
The markiii is designed as a larger diameter elbow replácing the OEM horn shaped one. It thus connects to airbox and wheelwell duct.
If not connected to the duct it will ´need´ a bell mouth to avoid turbulence at the entry in effect restricting the diameter.
The TRD one is designed for max. airflow; both larger diameter and bell mouth. The bell mouth is needed because it is meant not to be connected to the duct.
I deducted using the OEM horn thus needed to modify this for a beter bell mouth. With the duct the entry is .... ducted so less turbulence.
Looking forward to the OP´s experience.
Quote from: thetyrant on March 18, 2020, 15:30Quote from: Smithy on March 18, 2020, 12:38sorry to ask a stupid question but does the markiii need a bell mouth fitting like the TRD?
and are they both designed to fit into the air box without needing to connect to the wheel arch cold air feed?
No it will make little to no difference in the real world
Depends on which reality you live in.
Faffing with the air horn is marginal gains, not supercharging. Still, marginal gains still is gains and whether one thinks it worthwile is a personal decision.
The concensus is that there is a clearly noticeable difference between the markiii and OEM elbow.
I noticed a marginal difference with my mod. too; even the ECU did!
Yes, the markii and TRD were designed to be fitted differently; the former to the duct, the latter not.
The markiii pipe is plenty big enough for a n/a 1zz motor even if its pinching air entry with its non-bellmouth entry, i dont think adding a bellmouth would make any noticeable difference personally but it would be interested to see data from anyone that trys both, if i ever go back to n/a on my car i will do some back to back tests as i have a markiii pipe.
Before i fitted turbo I went from totally stock intake to markiii pipe and found very little difference, i would say car felt maybe a touch free'r to rev right at the top of revs towards the redline but could just of been placebo though as i never did any datalogs to compare, the 1zz is very flat in its topend power delivery of course.
It was interesting when PistolPete ran the stock 1zz intake on his 2zz swap and it struggled to go into lift, removed the tapered elbow and she was away revving as it should, goes to show there isnt a lot of headroom in that stock intake tapered elbow and even with its bellmouth its not enough to flow enough air to let a 2zz breathe.
So with the current madness and the fact I'm trying to get as much paid work done before the world grinds to a stop what should be a quick job is over running.
All installed now, I've removed the old ducting so just need to put the wheel arch liner back on.
Took the chance to clean everything whilst the liner was out. Terrible crud trap at the bottom of the wheel arch. Going to do the other side too.
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Out of interest the duct which takes the air from the vent isn't all plastic. Has a material centre section
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Will report once it's all put back together & driven
@Amarlborough , nice to see pride in your work and cleaning and protecting as you go.
Looks a nicely made bit of kit :)
So you have TRD enlarged elbow with trumpet etc but what other parts come with TRD kit ? you have removed the stock pipework/ducting over wheel is there a TRD replacement for that as well ?
Thanks
@Joesson @thetyrant there isn't a kit, its just the enlarged elbow. You remove and discard everything stock, well I assume you do all the instructions are in Japanese :)
That's a lovely clean sparkling engine bay Chilli has Adam. All looking well. ;D Thanks for cleaning out most of my crud Adam.😂
Seeing as she's more of a garage Queen these days
@Chilli Girl It's definitely from you ;)
Just a quick observation.
So why couldn't someone remove the elbow and replace it with the same length silicone hose with a bell mouth on the end and remove the ducting behind the wing?
would the ECU be effected?
would there be any performance gains?
would it sound any different?
is it actual worth doing?
Quote from: Amarlborough on March 18, 2020, 19:20Seeing as she's more of a garage Queen these days @Chilli Girl It's definitely from you ;)
Quote from: Smithy on March 30, 2020, 10:43Just a quick observation.
So why couldn't someone remove the elbow and replace it with the same length silicone hose with a bell mouth on the end and remove the ducting behind the wing?
would the ECU be effected?
would there be any performance gains?
would it sound any different?
is it actual worth doing?
It would definitely sound different. It's well before the MAF so ecu is unaffected.
Performance gains, maybe. Don't think so tbh.
Worth doing? Dunno,
@Petrus? Weight saving more than anything :)
Thanks for the info. its maybe not something I would play with right now but I just wanted to know.
Quote from: Smithy on March 30, 2020, 10:43Just a quick observation.
So why couldn't someone remove the elbow and replace it with the same length silicone hose with a bell mouth on the end and remove the ducting behind the wing?
would the ECU be effected?
would there be any performance gains?
would it sound any different?
is it actual worth doing?
A quick response; yes.
A slightly loger one; depends on your own evaluation of benefit/´cost´.
The ´complete´ answer; the OEM intake horn is a compromise between muffling of intake noise and creating laminate flow through the restriction.
The duct through the wheel arch is also a compromise between muffling/restriction and entry of cool air.
Deducting creates a HUGE plenum chamber filled with the same cool air.
Modding the inlet horn with a larger diameter and bell mount increases the flow into the air box.
Yes that will be moore noisy.
With the OEM filter thát will become the most restrictive lin and the effect minimal. Hence the TRD horn should go with a sports filter. Yes, the latter almost inevitably will be less effective in filtering.
Less restriction in the inlet tract means more air meaning potentially more hp.
And then the ECU. The MAF will measure the flow and the ECU adjust the mixture. More air = more fuel = more hp, not just potentially.
There should be no doubt that the inlet REALLY flows more air. On my car the ECU at first was outside of parameters because the throttle body and appendages were a bit dirty.
Before the mods my car ran good. Started briskly, cold and hot idle to spec, no issues on the overrun etc.
After the inlet mod the car had a too low hot idle, stalled on the over run. ECU gave error code.
After cleaning the throttle body et all, the engine ran as before the mod.
Same thing the MAF mod. That doés improve airflow but... see the observation about the chain of fow.
It should be understood that the engine is an air pump.
It is ALL connected: What cannot get out, cannot get in.
Totally stock all the shackles are equally strong. This OEM chain of flow is optimal.
One hard criterium for the manufacturers is the noise emision. The flow is optimalised within that restriction.
The end user has more leeway in this area. Legally we are not allowed to toúch inlet nor exhaust but in practice the periodic inspection has a more permissive sound limit. And that is íf it is measured.
Back to the chain of flow: Changing óne shackle has only minmal effect. Opening up the inlet has little to no effect if the midpipe is not changed.
Changing the whole inlet and exhaust tract will see the head/stroke length become the bottle neck.
Even flowing the ports, different cams will only have limited gains.
Right, that understood, is it worth it?
You decide and pick your poison.
The gains.
I have been faffing with two different mobile phone apps calculating performance.
Now those are not to be taken on face value but the relative values are reliable and useful.
I mean the same test consistanly giving x performance before and x + 10% after then it is pretty safe to assume that the perfomance has improved about 10%.
My car has shed weight and I have gone the whole hog without actually modding the engine itself. See the Southern Belle thread.
Overall my car´s performance has improved over 25%.
Actualising the weight in the apps the improvement is over 10%.
I am conservative in the values and refraining from more accurate %s because there are always variables however much you try to get all things equal.
Would anybody have the dimensions of the MKiii pipe as I assume they are long out of production?
Diameter both ends
Angle of the bend
And the length using the mid point of the tube
Mark
@Mark A i still have my mine was going to sell it after all this is over. First dibs to you if you want it.
Think the last one sold on here went for £60
I´ve decided to have a go at a less restrictive elbow.
Although rather a fan of the horn shape, in this case it goes down to hálf the surface and that is a bit much of a restriction.
Will keep you posted. Ofcourse ;)
Quote from: Amarlborough on April 24, 2020, 18:20@Mark A i still have my mine was going to sell it after all this is over. First dibs to you if you want it.
Think the last one sold on here went for £60
Yes please.
The stub on the air filter housing has an outside diameter of 76mm.
Measured over the inner bend, the length is 30 cm.
These are surprisingly standard elbow dimensions.
To my surprise found several sources in UK and Germany for fitting pipes with 45 degree bend in both alumium and silicon. Matching bellmouths even.
The specific density(weight) of silicon is 0.9-1.3 and that of aluminum is 2.7 making wall thickness a thing to take into account.
A 2mm thick alumium tube weighs the same as a 5mm thick silicon one.
Making silicon more attractive for both the literally more flexible mounting and vibrating being less of an issue.
My first choice is a silicon duct reducing from 90 to 76mm inner diameter and a bell mouth with 90mm inner opening. This should eliminate turbulence at the entry and give a nice ´ram´-effect into the housing
Alternative is plastic ´corugated ´ duct with a bellmouth. When using 76mm internal diameter the ribs inside actualy aíd flow and this ducting is available in more lengths meaning that the air column of the ducting can be partly recreated. Even at 75 cm. it will be the lightest option too.
Have sent enquiries about combined shipment out.
To be continued...
It´s in and have done a short spin.
Adds a deep tone, derestricts the breathing at the top end.
Cost 28 quid.
Inlaathoorn2.jpg
Quote from: Petrus on May 14, 2020, 09:25It´s in and have done a short spin.
Adds a deep tone, derestricts the breathing at the top end.
Cost 28 quid.
Inlaathoorn2.jpg
Makes sense, shorter tract. For those with 2zz and 1zz intake, maybe a worthwhile mod
Quote from: shnazzle on May 14, 2020, 09:45Makes sense, shorter tract. For those with 2zz and 1zz intake, maybe a worthwhile mod
Also, the OEM elbow has an internal diameter of 65mm at the entry of the air filter box and 45mm at the restriction.
The funnel I have stuck on is 76 and óver the stub of the box, resulting that the entry is now the 70mm of the box stub. The entry is the internal 90mm of the bell mouth.
Length is the same as OEM elbow.
The length of the intake tract is indeed way shorter as the elbow is not stuck into the duct through the rea quarter panel. That however I already had removed over half a year ago.
On my car it is a comparison between free intake OEM horn elbow and the new funnel elbow. See Belle´s thread for the two fotos together.
The same seller, autosiliconehose, has a wide selection of elbows, even carbon and all very reasonably priced.
I opted for the silicon funnel as it is the least restrictive and literally flexible, simplifying fitting.
Quote from: Petrus on May 14, 2020, 10:01Quote from: shnazzle on May 14, 2020, 09:45Makes sense, shorter tract. For those with 2zz and 1zz intake, maybe a worthwhile mod
Also, the OEM elbow has an internal diameter of 65mm at the entry of the air filter box and 45mm at the restriction.
The funnel I have stuck on is 76 and óver the stub of the box, resulting that the entry is now the 70mm of the box stub. The entry is the internal 90mm of the bell mouth.
Length is the same as OEM elbow.
The length of the intake tract is indeed way shorter as the elbow is not stuck into the duct through the rea quarter panel. That however I already had removed over half a year ago.
On my car it is a comparison between free intake OEM horn elbow and the new funnel elbow. See Belle´s thread for the two fotos together.
The same seller, autosiliconehose, has a wide selection of elbows, even carbon and all very reasonably priced.
I opted for the silicon funnel as it is the least restrictive and literally flexible, simplifying fitting.
Hi, I was looking into markii pipes when I read this thread. Are you still using this set up or have you improved on it any further? Sounds like a cost effective solution to do the same job. Well done.
Still in here. Still great.
Bonus; last week the one gf observed that she lóved the intake growl.
Quote from: Petrus on August 2, 2021, 09:05Still in here. Still great.
Bonus; last week the one gf observed that she lóved the intake growl.
Lol, bonus. Do you use a standard panel filter or a aftermarket one? If aftermarket, do you think it is essential to support what is happening?
Quote from: Zspeed on August 2, 2021, 11:57Quote from: Petrus on August 2, 2021, 09:05Still in here. Still great.
Bonus; last week the one gf observed that she lóved the intake growl.
Lol, bonus. Do you use a standard panel filter or a aftermarket one? If aftermarket, do you think it is essential to support what is happening?
Aftermarket. Do not understand the question. Support whát?
Quote from: Petrus on August 2, 2021, 13:38Quote from: Zspeed on August 2, 2021, 11:57Quote from: Petrus on August 2, 2021, 09:05Still in here. Still great.
Bonus; last week the one gf observed that she lóved the intake growl.
Lol, bonus. Do you use a standard panel filter or a aftermarket one? If aftermarket, do you think it is essential to support what is happening?
Aftermarket. Do not understand the question. Support whát?
I thought I read you are using the standard filter box. If so, with the wider pipe have you changed to an aftermarket panel filter in the box or is it still a standard oe spec air filter. Wondered if a standard filter might reduce the roar.
OEM box.
I did a similar mod as pictured below with a length of silicone pipe clamped to the OEM airbox with a bell mouth. I run a K&N panel filter too.
my fuelling isn't effected, no performance gains to report but I like the extra intake sound.