MR2 Roadster Owners Club

I'm sure this will be a controversial post but here it goes.

I usually do an oil change / service just before the MOT in April and after she's brought out of winter hibernation.

Because of lockdown etc, the car didnt come out till July and has only done a few hundred miles this year.

Also the MOT got extended till October and decided that it was actually a better time to get it done so that I had winter to fix anything.

The car will be SORN at the end of the month till probably March.

Do I therefore, service it now and it will sit for 5 months with the new oil in, or do I just leave it and service it in March before using it again?

Quote from: tricky1138 on October  7, 2020, 09:02I'm sure this will be a controversial post but here it goes.

I usually do an oil change / service just before the MOT in April and after she's brought out of winter hibernation.

Because of lockdown etc, the car didnt come out till July and has only done a few hundred miles this year.

Also the MOT got extended till October and decided that it was actually a better time to get it done so that I had winter to fix anything.

The car will be SORN at the end of the month till probably March.

Do I therefore, service it now and it will sit for 5 months with the new oil in, or do I just leave it and service it in March before using it again?

I'd leave it.

Quote from: Carolyn on October  7, 2020, 09:06I'd leave it.

Why I wonder?

Is it better to leave it stored with fresh fluids, or with the old contaminated stuff?

I usually use the winter when my cars are Sorned to service them and do odd jobs.

Quote from: scm2004red on October  7, 2020, 09:14

Quote from: Carolyn on October  7, 2020, 09:06I'd leave it.

Why I wonder?

Is it better to leave it stored with fresh fluids, or with the old contaminated stuff?

I usually use the winter when my cars are Sorned to service them and do odd jobs.

As he engine is not going to be run, it has little bearing on looking after the engine.  As the oil does deteriorate over time - might as well start driving with fresh oil?

Very similar to my situation but I only used the 2 in the month of September when it passed it's MOT and is now back on SORN.

Presuming you used decent oil on last change i would leave it as well and change when it comes out next year.

Also before it goes away for hibernation i would make sure it gets a proper good run out with plenty of heat to evaporate any moisture in the engine/oils etc, not essential but always good idea if car is going to sit.

Probably get a kicking here, however, why would you want to change your oil after a few hundred miles, waste of time and money

Folks really do get hung up about oil, they read, joe up the road changes his regardless every year even if the car aint moved off the drive, todays modern oils dont break down for years, totally unnecessary

I await the backlash ;)

Rob

I usually garage mine Dec > Feb and start it up/let it get up to temperature once a fortnight. Accordingly I don't do the service until the end of Feb.

Similar boat to me, it seems a waste junking plugs/air filter etc. after 3k miles this year but when it's £40 for all new bits from Toyota I just do it

My MOT date has pushed back to Nov which is ideal as it means any remedial work can be done over winter now, rather than delaying time with the car in the Spring.

Quote from: Zxrob on October  7, 2020, 10:21Probably get a kicking here, however, why would you want to change your oil after a few hundred miles, waste of time and money

Folks really do get hung up about oil, they read, joe up the road changes his regardless every year even if the car aint moved off the drive, todays modern oils dont break down for years, totally unnecessary

I await the backlash ;)

Rob

Are you from Yorkshire?

IMHO the 2 worse things for an engine are lack of regular servicing and lack of use.

1zz and their oil control rinds especially

Quote from: 1979scotte on October  7, 2020, 11:12

Quote from: Zxrob on October  7, 2020, 10:21Probably get a kicking here, however, why would you want to change your oil after a few hundred miles, waste of time and money

Folks really do get hung up about oil, they read, joe up the road changes his regardless every year even if the car aint moved off the drive, todays modern oils dont break down for years, totally unnecessary

I await the backlash ;)

Rob

Are you from Yorkshire?

IMHO the 2 worse things for an engine are lack of regular servicing and lack of use.

1zz and their oil control rinds especially

He's a Yorkshire man and biker, what more do you expect?  Nothing wrong with being from Yorkshire and a biker Scotte. Ha ha!  I have missed you.

He's a Yorkshire man and a biker, that's what we are like Scotte ;)  ;D   I have missed you.

Quote from: Zxrob on October  7, 2020, 10:21Probably get a kicking here, however, why would you want to change your oil after a few hundred miles, waste of time and money

Its not a few hundred its a few thousand, as it should have been done in March this year but didnt due to lockdown and the car not being used.

Totally agree with the fact that it should be ok.

Quote from: Bossworld on October  7, 2020, 10:25I usually garage mine Dec > Feb and start it up/let it get up to temperature once a fortnight. Accordingly I don't do the service until the end of Feb.

Similar boat to me, it seems a waste junking plugs/air filter etc. after 3k miles this year but when it's £40 for all new bits from Toyota I just do it

My MOT date has pushed back to Nov which is ideal as it means any remedial work can be done over winter now, rather than delaying time with the car in the Spring.

I agree for £40 its worth doing every year regardless, and in the same situation, remedial work can be done over winter if needed rather than taking it off the road in April when the MOT was usually due.

Quote from: Carolyn on October  7, 2020, 09:23As he engine is not going to be run, it has little bearing on looking after the engine.  As the oil does deteriorate over time - might as well start driving with fresh oil?

That was my thoughts too. I'll leave it till March. :)

Quote from: 1979scotte on October  7, 2020, 11:12Are you from Yorkshire?

IMHO the 2 worse things for an engine are lack of regular servicing and lack of use.

1zz and their oil control rinds especially

Hmm, Yorkshire, tut , no

I have run many cars and motorbikes for many years, I would not change the oil every 12 months if I had done say 1000 miles in a year, I have left it a couple of years and never had an issue FACT

Obviously its personal choice how your maintain, service a vehicle

Rob

In answer to original post.
I would lean towards. Leave it.

My deep down answer would be. Use the car.

Run the car all year. Problem solved :)

@Ardent and @shnazzle both singing from the same hymn book!

Quote from: Joesson on October  7, 2020, 15:20@Ardent and @shnazzle both singing from the same hymn book!

From @Joesson who isn't. ;)

Yep, leave it and run the car imho.
My old coupe forum had folk dropping oil every 3k and were imho paranoid about it !
Doing that (unless used on track) is a complete and utter waste of time/money.
Yes I am from Yorkshire ! 😇👍

@Mr2paul - Your last remark explains a lot  ;)

dc2gfrj-373b6194-3c3a-45fe-b8db-be685e19611a.jpg

Changing the oil on the 1zz is a must. The design is flawed which is why it got late life revisions.
This is exacerbated by the lack of miles that are generally covered in an mr2.
By all means dont bother changing plugs but do the oil and filters every 12 month.
It isn't exactly expensive and you can do it yourself to limit expenditure even more.

Yep, no problem at all changing yearly as you say regardless, but some do it way too often. I won't comment further on my home county 🤔🤔

I change the oil annually, every time I take the engine out and at least twice a year on top of that...

Topic revival.

MR2 is coming out of hibernation on 1st April   ;D  ;D

I'm going to service it before then, but the question is:

As its been sitting for 5 months without starting, should I do the service before starting her up, or start her up, get her up to temperature and then service?

I know air filter, sparks are prob ok, but what would be best for oil wise?

Edit: And does everyone still use a washing up bowl? Mine has gone missing so going to get a new one - are them fancy ones what collect the oil in the bottom and can be sealed any good?

 

I cut the side out of an empty 5 ltr oil can.

@tricky1138
Having sat for several months any muck suspended in the oil will now be at the 'bottom'. It may or may not come out with the oil when drained cold, then
fresh oil on top of the cold muck will start the process over again.
But, do you regularly change the oil, how much muck will there be  after only 7 months use? There will be fresh oil at the top end and fresh oil in the sump when you start it up.
Alternatively start up and circulate muck and give it a clear out hot and then top up.
I have done it both ways . I have tried without success to convince myself of the benefits either way!
I don't believe a garage would bother getting the engine to working temperature before draining the oil.
For sure spark plugs are best removed cold.
I have used a washing up bowl, never bought one, used an old one from the kitchen and buy a new one for the kitchen.
I also use a 5L plastic oil container, unless you can get hold of a metal one, and cut a hole in one side to catch the oil.
Does the same job as a shop bought oil catcher, just remember to put the top on.

PS
Note that @Call the Midlife and I both suggest a 5L container, for a very good reason.

I can recommend a magnetic sump plug.

Quote from: Alex Knight on March 24, 2021, 20:08I can recommend a magnetic sump plug.

I'm looking forward to seeing what my fancy Mishimoto plug has caught :) Hopefully nothing. Best case scenario.


I bought a 2.50gbp cat litter tray from Home Bargains. It's reliably been my oil tray for years now.

I duct-taped a piece of wood to the bottom of one end to make sure it stays level on my slanted drive :)

I change my oil once every two years. It was found after analysis that although oil does oxidize it isn't enough to make a difference to effect the condition of the oil as long as it's within the service life.
Yearly oil changes is warranted for older type of oils even synthetic but with the new stuff it's not as important as long as you use quality synthetic with newer formulations. What ever condensation that occurs when sitting will be evaporated. 

Quote from: shnazzle on March 24, 2021, 20:16

Quote from: Alex Knight on March 24, 2021, 20:08I can recommend a magnetic sump plug.

I'm looking forward to seeing what my fancy Mishimoto plug has caught :) Hopefully nothing. Best case scenario.


I bought a 2.50gbp cat litter tray from Home Bargains. It's reliably been my oil tray for years now.

I duct-taped a piece of wood to the bottom of one end to make sure it stays level on my slanted drive :)

+1 on the cat litter tray. Also a 10mm round magnet mounted to the sump plug. So far, 3 oil changes later. NOTHING on he plug. Which is good.

Quote from: Dev on March 24, 2021, 21:11I change my oil once every two years. It was found after analysis that although oil does oxidize it isn't enough to make a difference to effect the condition of the oil as long as it's within the service life.
Yearly oil changes is warranted for older type of oils even synthetic but with the new stuff it's not as important as long as you use quality synthetic with newer formulations. What ever condensation that occurs when sitting will be evaporated. 

For clarity your proposing 2 years or within it's service life" ie.mileage

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 10:07

Quote from: Dev on March 24, 2021, 21:11I change my oil once every two years. It was found after analysis that although oil does oxidize it isn't enough to make a difference to effect the condition of the oil as long as it's within the service life.
Yearly oil changes is warranted for older type of oils even synthetic but with the new stuff it's not as important as long as you use quality synthetic with newer formulations. What ever condensation that occurs when sitting will be evaporated. 

For clarity your proposing 2 years or within it's service life" ie.mileage

For the price of oil and filter may as well do it imho.

Most manufactures today recommend an oil change on mileage or time, such as yearly.

I worked in the boat business and we prepared a lot of engines for winter storage.  We changed the oil before storage for a couple reasons.  We often didn't know when the oil was last changed, the engine needed a yearly change anyway, we didn't want the old oil to sit in the engine for months, but the biggest reason was when nice weather came, no one wanted to take the time to change oil before going out the first time!

The requirements with modern synthetic oils are less restrictive, but we change oil in the MR2 yearly, but not always before storage.  Usually because of mileage, that change comes late in the season, so that works.

But as an old mechanic once expressed, oil and filters are cheap, engines are expensive.  If in doubt, change it.

Quote from: 1979scotte on March 25, 2021, 10:32

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 10:07

Quote from: Dev on March 24, 2021, 21:11I change my oil once every two years. It was found after analysis that although oil does oxidize it isn't enough to make a difference to effect the condition of the oil as long as it's within the service life.
Yearly oil changes is warranted for older type of oils even synthetic but with the new stuff it's not as important as long as you use quality synthetic with newer formulations. What ever condensation that occurs when sitting will be evaporated. 

For clarity your proposing 2 years or within it's service life" ie.mileage

For the price of oil and filter may as well do it imho.

It's recently been shown that your Financial Advice is not the best!
(This is the guy that said £575 for a hard top was high!!!)

PS
Oil and filter price probably wouldn't buy a  Dogs Dinner in some places.

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 12:13

Quote from: 1979scotte on March 25, 2021, 10:32

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 10:07

Quote from: Dev on March 24, 2021, 21:11I change my oil once every two years. It was found after analysis that although oil does oxidize it isn't enough to make a difference to effect the condition of the oil as long as it's within the service life.
Yearly oil changes is warranted for older type of oils even synthetic but with the new stuff it's not as important as long as you use quality synthetic with newer formulations. What ever condensation that occurs when sitting will be evaporated. 

For clarity your proposing 2 years or within it's service life" ie.mileage

For the price of oil and filter may as well do it imho.

It's recently been shown that your Financial Advice is not the best!
(This is the guy that said £575 for a hard top was high!!!)

PS
Oil and filter price probably wouldn't buy a  Dogs Dinner in some places.

It was 3 years ago

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 10:07

Quote from: Dev on March 24, 2021, 21:11I change my oil once every two years. It was found after analysis that although oil does oxidize it isn't enough to make a difference to effect the condition of the oil as long as it's within the service life.
Yearly oil changes is warranted for older type of oils even synthetic but with the new stuff it's not as important as long as you use quality synthetic with newer formulations. What ever condensation that occurs when sitting will be evaporated. 

For clarity your proposing 2 years or within it's service life" ie.mileage

2 years or 5k miles which ever comes first. 
Its still overkill but I do it according to some industry rules of thumb and from what others have independently tested based on oil analysis for those that are in my position. I wouldn't do this for just any oil, I do this based on the kind of high grade modern synthetic that is up to the job.

Some newer cars have oil sensors that will calculate the remaining millage based on oil condition as it analyzes it. Most of this has to do with the amount of active ingredient to counteract the acidity that can be measured by the TBN or total base number.

Oil is not a fixed rule of thumb it is ever evolving with newer base oils, formulations and in addition  to this the quality of fuel as it evolves.  Most people over here at one time were still stuck on the 3k oil changes or every three months and it took them over two decades to get out of that mindset. The reason for the shorter intervals had to do with lead contamination from a time when fuel was leaded. It also had to do with profit from the oil change industry.

I do not put that many miles on my car since it is seasonal but I do what is comfortable to me based on science and what the industry recommends for my kind of use for the kind of oil that I use. I also do it for secondary reason and that is to be eco friendly to the environment because I am a believer in conservation. 

I will have my oil analyzed next year since I switched brands but I know the report will come back telling me I could go longer. I use an oil that was formulated for the Challenger  SRT which is overkill.

  Brigs and Stratton manufactures lawn mower engines and they have developed a technology based on engine design and if used with their synthetic oil it never needs an oil change. People lost their minds over this.  I was also a bit concerned but its been over five years and there hasn't been an oil related failure. Modern technology moves the goal posts when it comes to service life.

Quote from: 1979scotte on March 25, 2021, 13:13

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 12:13

Quote from: 1979scotte on March 25, 2021, 10:32

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 10:07

Quote from: Dev on March 24, 2021, 21:11I change my oil once every two years. It was found after analysis that although oil does oxidize it isn't enough to make a difference to effect the condition of the oil as long as it's within the service life.
Yearly oil changes is warranted for older type of oils even synthetic but with the new stuff it's not as important as long as you use quality synthetic with newer formulations. What ever condensation that occurs when sitting will be evaporated. 

For clarity your proposing 2 years or within it's service life" ie.mileage

For the price of oil and filter may as well do it imho.

It's recently been shown that your Financial Advice is not the best!
(This is the guy that said £575 for a hard top was high!!!)

PS
Oil and filter price probably wouldn't buy a  Dogs Dinner in some places.

It was 3 years ago

Time changes everything.

@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

This was exactly my reasons for going for 2 years change for me too. I think I taxed it in June and SORNed it in November and did less than 1000 miles inbetween. Hence the original question of servicing before I SORNed it or now.

Its getting serviced at the weekend and fingers crossed all goes well.

PS Toyota service pack from main dealer was £36 inc oil!

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

I used to use fuchs top of the range but after having various issues with more than one 2 I use cheap fully synthetic and change regularly. It either ended up coming out of the turbo or got changed anyway when the engine was rebuilt.

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

It really depends on the quality of the oil and the kind of driving condition (racing) however a lot of the new synthetic oils are up to the task and are overkill for our engine design which is easy on oil. Im willing to bet even lesser synthetic oil is up to the task but I wouldn't chance it.

When topics of oil come up like this I like to take a peak to see what the industry thinks. Apparently the main concern of what we are discussing is if the oil gets spent by age that it will harming your engine. Thats not the case at all.

I just did some searching and those that love Porsche will be surprised to know even they recommend max 2 years oil changes.

I have seen this 2 year interval publicized elsewhere for cars that sit and are rarely driven. It's not my opinion its the industries as they evolve with better oils.

Quote from: tricky1138 on March 25, 2021, 14:16

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

This was exactly my reasons for going for 2 years change for me too. I think I taxed it in June and SORNed it in November and did less than 1000 miles inbetween. Hence the original question of servicing before I SORNed it or now.

Its getting serviced at the weekend and fingers crossed all goes well.

PS Toyota service pack from main dealer was £36 inc oil!

Iirc the service pack includes semi synthetic oil, but what else is included?

Quote from: 1979scotte on March 25, 2021, 14:17

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

I used to use fuchs top of the range but after having various issues with more than one 2 I use cheap fully synthetic and change regularly. It either ended up coming out of the turbo or got changed anyway when the engine was rebuilt.

I think that's oil change by Force Majeure!

Quote from: Dev on March 25, 2021, 14:22

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

It really depends on the quality of the oil and the kind of driving condition (racing) however a lot of the new synthetic oils are up to the task and are overkill for our engine design which is easy on oil. Im willing to bet even lesser synthetic oil is up to the task but I wouldn't chance it.

When topics of oil come up like this I like to take a peak to see what the industry thinks. Apparently the main concern of what we are discussing is if the oil gets spent by age that it will harming your engine. Thats not the case at all.

I just did some searching and those that love Porsche will be surprised to know even they recommend max 2 years oil changes.

I have seen this 2 year interval publicized elsewhere for cars that sit and are rarely driven. It's not my opinion its the industries as they evolve with better oils.

I heard Porsche extended the oil change interval to give their Client's time to save up for the cost.
 I believe it's three figures for an oil change!

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:40

Quote from: Dev on March 25, 2021, 14:22

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

It really depends on the quality of the oil and the kind of driving condition (racing) however a lot of the new synthetic oils are up to the task and are overkill for our engine design which is easy on oil. Im willing to bet even lesser synthetic oil is up to the task but I wouldn't chance it.

When topics of oil come up like this I like to take a peak to see what the industry thinks. Apparently the main concern of what we are discussing is if the oil gets spent by age that it will harming your engine. Thats not the case at all.

I just did some searching and those that love Porsche will be surprised to know even they recommend max 2 years oil changes.

I have seen this 2 year interval publicized elsewhere for cars that sit and are rarely driven. It's not my opinion its the industries as they evolve with better oils.

I heard Porsche extended the oil change interval to give their Client's time to save up for the cost.
 I believe it's three figures for an oil change!

 Probably. LOL. 
  From everything that I have read.
  Oil does oxidize the longer it is expose to air which degrades the oil. Also oil does degrade when it accumulates condensation primarily due to short driving intervals and sitting for extended periods of time. However it was shown that it's not anywhere near enough to damage the oil during the specific use case of those that rarely drive their cars if they use modern synthetic oils with a good additive package.
 
 There are two schools of thought on this and that is to use cheaper synthetic oil and change it often if one wanted to save money opposed to using more expensive synthetic oil and keeping it longer.

 Here is my rational for using the good stuff for longer.

For my use case I want the best oil with the least amount of wear on one particular part of the engine that is sensitive to high wear which is the intake cam of my 2ZZ. The wear will effect the performance of intake cam which changes the clearances and reduces the valve duration over time.
 Therefore I want an oil that has additives that reduce cam wear but I do not want additives like Zinc that are good at protecting cams but also lack lubricity for the other parts of the engine. The oil I used has a newer developed substance called Tri nuclear Moly which was co developed by Exxon and Shell to reduce engine wear substantially.
 If I keep changing my oil using the cheap stuff I will not get any of these benefits for the formulation that I want to protect the intake cam. 

Also the oil I use is derived from natural gas and has a formulation that cleans up leftover deposit formation. This is important for keeping the oil drain holes clean and the small VVT passages free of varnish accumulation prolonging engine life and reducing engine noise. Just by using this oil it can actually clean up previous deposits from using lesser oils in the past and improve the health of the engine. 

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:40I heard Porsche extended the oil change interval to give their Client's time to save up for the cost.
 I believe it's three figures for an oil change!

A Boxster is nearly £200 for an oil change, no different to my run of the mill daily which has just had an interim service at Vauxhall!

Buying the parts and doing it yourself wouldn't be much different between MR2 and Boxster, quantity of oil being the main variable.

Quote from: Dev on March 25, 2021, 15:08

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:40

Quote from: Dev on March 25, 2021, 14:22

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

It really depends on the quality of the oil and the kind of driving condition (racing) however a lot of the new synthetic oils are up to the task and are overkill for our engine design which is easy on oil. Im willing to bet even lesser synthetic oil is up to the task but I wouldn't chance it.

When topics of oil come up like this I like to take a peak to see what the industry thinks. Apparently the main concern of what we are discussing is if the oil gets spent by age that it will harming your engine. Thats not the case at all.

I just did some searching and those that love Porsche will be surprised to know even they recommend max 2 years oil changes.

I have seen this 2 year interval publicized elsewhere for cars that sit and are rarely driven. It's not my opinion its the industries as they evolve with better oils.

I heard Porsche extended the oil change interval to give their Client's time to save up for the cost.
 I believe it's three figures for an oil change!

 Probably. LOL. 
  From everything that I have read.
  Oil does oxidize the longer it is expose to air which degrades the oil. Also oil does degrade when it accumulates condensation primarily due to short driving intervals and sitting for extended periods of time. However it was shown that it's not anywhere near enough to damage the oil during the specific use case of those that rarely drive their cars if they use modern synthetic oils with a good additive package.
 
 There are two schools of thought on this and that is to use cheaper synthetic oil and change it often if one wanted to save money opposed to using more expensive synthetic oil and keeping it longer.

 Here is my rational for using the good stuff for longer.

For my use case I want the best oil with the least amount of wear on one particular part of the engine that is sensitive to high wear which is the intake cam of my 2ZZ. The wear will effect the performance of intake cam which changes the clearances and reduces the valve duration over time.
 Therefore I want an oil that has additives that reduce cam wear but I do not want additives like Zinc that are good at protecting cams but also lack lubricity for the other parts of the engine. The oil I used has a newer developed substance called Tri nuclear Moly which was co developed by Exxon and Shell to reduce engine wear substantially.
 If I keep changing my oil using the cheap stuff I will not get any of these benefits for the formulation that I want to protect the intake cam. 

Also the oil I use is derived from natural gas and has a formulation that cleans up leftover deposit formation. This is important for keeping the oil drain holes clean and the small VVT passages free of varnish accumulation prolonging engine life and reducing engine noise. Just by using this oil it can actually clean up previous deposits from using lesser oils in the past and improve the health of the engine. 

Do you use Penzoil Dev?

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:34

Quote from: tricky1138 on March 25, 2021, 14:16

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

This was exactly my reasons for going for 2 years change for me too. I think I taxed it in June and SORNed it in November and did less than 1000 miles inbetween. Hence the original question of servicing before I SORNed it or now.

Its getting serviced at the weekend and fingers crossed all goes well.

PS Toyota service pack from main dealer was £36 inc oil!

Iirc the service pack includes semi synthetic oil, but what else is included?

Oil, Oil filter, air filter, sump plug washer, spark plugs.

Yes I believe it is semi synthetic oil. For the mileage I do annually I dont think it will matter.

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 15:51

Quote from: Dev on March 25, 2021, 15:08

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:40

Quote from: Dev on March 25, 2021, 14:22

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

It really depends on the quality of the oil and the kind of driving condition (racing) however a lot of the new synthetic oils are up to the task and are overkill for our engine design which is easy on oil. Im willing to bet even lesser synthetic oil is up to the task but I wouldn't chance it.

When topics of oil come up like this I like to take a peak to see what the industry thinks. Apparently the main concern of what we are discussing is if the oil gets spent by age that it will harming your engine. Thats not the case at all.

I just did some searching and those that love Porsche will be surprised to know even they recommend max 2 years oil changes.

I have seen this 2 year interval publicized elsewhere for cars that sit and are rarely driven. It's not my opinion its the industries as they evolve with better oils.

I heard Porsche extended the oil change interval to give their Client's time to save up for the cost.
 I believe it's three figures for an oil change!

 Probably. LOL. 
  From everything that I have read.
  Oil does oxidize the longer it is expose to air which degrades the oil. Also oil does degrade when it accumulates condensation primarily due to short driving intervals and sitting for extended periods of time. However it was shown that it's not anywhere near enough to damage the oil during the specific use case of those that rarely drive their cars if they use modern synthetic oils with a good additive package.
 
 There are two schools of thought on this and that is to use cheaper synthetic oil and change it often if one wanted to save money opposed to using more expensive synthetic oil and keeping it longer.

 Here is my rational for using the good stuff for longer.

For my use case I want the best oil with the least amount of wear on one particular part of the engine that is sensitive to high wear which is the intake cam of my 2ZZ. The wear will effect the performance of intake cam which changes the clearances and reduces the valve duration over time.
 Therefore I want an oil that has additives that reduce cam wear but I do not want additives like Zinc that are good at protecting cams but also lack lubricity for the other parts of the engine. The oil I used has a newer developed substance called Tri nuclear Moly which was co developed by Exxon and Shell to reduce engine wear substantially.
 If I keep changing my oil using the cheap stuff I will not get any of these benefits for the formulation that I want to protect the intake cam. 

Also the oil I use is derived from natural gas and has a formulation that cleans up leftover deposit formation. This is important for keeping the oil drain holes clean and the small VVT passages free of varnish accumulation prolonging engine life and reducing engine noise. Just by using this oil it can actually clean up previous deposits from using lesser oils in the past and improve the health of the engine. 

Do you use Penzoil Dev?

Yes, I believe its what you get over there as Shell Helix.
The stuff I use is formulated for the Challenger SRT engine which is known to be hard on oil.
What I really like about it is very low evaporation losses compared to the previous Castrol synthetic oil  and prior to that Motul synthetic.
Toyota synthetic formulations also like using an abundance of newer Moly as an anti-wear additive and probably one of the reasons why they have extended their service intervals as well.

Quote from: tricky1138 on March 25, 2021, 16:04

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:34

Quote from: tricky1138 on March 25, 2021, 14:16

Quote from: Joesson on March 25, 2021, 14:07@Dev
The records for my 2002, 2 show that the oil was changed every 12 months until my purchase in 2011 and again annually to Spring 2019 in my ownership. That was the most recent change. The car was MOT'd on 24 September and SORN 'Ed at the end of the month.
Last year the MOT mileage difference was 403 miles, I used the car in the month of September only. I did not change the oil and filter last year but for circumstantial reasons.
So, in principal, I cannot disagree with Dev's thinking. I will be changing the oil imminently and hope to use the car in the warmer months of this year.

This was exactly my reasons for going for 2 years change for me too. I think I taxed it in June and SORNed it in November and did less than 1000 miles inbetween. Hence the original question of servicing before I SORNed it or now.

Its getting serviced at the weekend and fingers crossed all goes well.

PS Toyota service pack from main dealer was £36 inc oil!

Iirc the service pack includes semi synthetic oil, but what else is included?

Oil, Oil filter, air filter, sump plug washer, spark plugs.

Yes I believe it is semi synthetic oil. For the mileage I do annually I dont think it will matter.

That seems reasonable value.
It does reinforce my thoughts about why I stopped going to Mr T for the car to be serviced.
The first service after I bought my 2 , the next day, was followed then by 3 annual services on a service plan.
I realised at some point that while I could see that the oil was fresher, I had no proof that the sump washer and filter was changed. I did find proof that the plugs and air filter weren't. I have never done near the service interval mileage annually and I believe that the dealer did not use all the parts that the schedule listed.
When the service plan ended I had found the ROC and started doing my own servicing.

Oil and filter once a year gives me peace of mind for the price of 1/2 tank of fuel. I know it is overkill but I feel better - and have more regular opportunities for tinkering!

 I seen this video 2 years ago. Although it is not perfectly scientific it does validate much of what the industry it touting regarding oil change intervals regarding age.

 

 One other interesting aspect of engine oil is there are peer reviewed engineering white papers that show that frequent oil changes creates more wear in certain use cases. It has to do with the levels of detergency that is abrasive and needs time to settle out after around 1k miles.  After that the engine will show the lowest wear numbers.

Service kit picked up!

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