So as said in a couple other threads, on the 2001 silver road car, going for a full suspension overhaul
ARB's Polybush etc
Decided to stich with shocks and springs rather than coilovers as it is a road only car and I mainly drive on B roads, the other girl who drives it goes motorways
So at the moment I do not think the suspension has every been touched. I "think" it has TTE lowering springs but no way to tell.
It grind out pretty badly on all speed humps, down my road and back roads. those who run lowering springs do you have much issue with grinding out????
or is it ours is so tired its just sagging and bouncing badly,
Before I order some new lowered springs or go stock height
IT drops quite a bit with 2 people in it, grinds a lot more and it all feels very loose so its defo needs an overhaul
I had tien springs on new shocks,and after 6 months i found i was freighted of speed bump.
I then went for H&R springs on KYB shocks they have been on 2 years 5 thousand miles speed bumps don,t cause any issue and there is no pogo
They are slightly more expensive but worth it
Just fitted eibach springs on brand new kyb shocks. A bit early to tell if it'll bottom out but i very much doubt it. Hasnt lowered it that much to cause issues and the ride is very very close to oem.
I had TTE springs on stock dampers car had done 55k.
Only problems I had were on the split humps or whatever they're called. Obviously you have to go slow over any humps in an mr2 it's much lower as standard than most normal cars.
Cheers yeah I am always slow over them but the other day actually managed to beach and stall the Mr on a speed hump!!
H and r or eibach with kyb was what I was looking at
Had apex and tein on other cars before always hav terrible pogo effect
Im on Koni inserts on Tein springs and it works very well, bit low really especially on 15" wheels with extra under bracing but just have to be careful on speed humps etc. Your welcome to have a drive if we are at a meet together.
I've had quite a few lowered cars in the workshop. They look lovely, but they all cause problems when navigating over 'terrain'.
So I went for totally stock springs and shocks when I refreshed my own car. Glad I did.
I can't see how she 'sits' from inside, but I sure can feel it when bits start to scrape.
I wish someone would make a inbetween lowering spring for these cars, im tempted myself to get my spring guys to do them as i feel something like a 15mm drop would be much better for clearance and still give improved visual looks and flatter feeling to handling, also a bump in spring rate would be good as well for the handling side especially if using uprated dampers like Koni and going on track when Teins are too soft really.
One of my future projects is to convert the stock strut casing so it takes a normal 2.5" coilover spring then i can play with ride heights and rates, but the more i think about it i wonder if there is market for inbetween lowering spring kit for these cars in a couple of spring rate options, softer/stockish rate for oem dampers and road users just wanting the drop without any extra stiffness, then a uprated rate for those running on track with Konis etc....might ponder that some more but i think cost might be an issue though especially for road owners as custom spring kit is probably going to be north of £200 as it was for my Celica GT4 a couple of years ago.
Quote from: pistol pete on June 3, 2021, 22:25Cheers yeah I am always slow over them but the other day actually managed to beach and stall the Mr on a speed hump!!
Regardless of how high which springs ALWAYS try to cross at as much an angle as space/traffic permits. It is simply less shocking to everything.
Quote from: thetyrant on June 4, 2021, 09:34I wish someone would make a inbetween lowering spring for these cars,
TRD Sportivo kit was moderate.
Alternative is cut the OEM springs a whiff. As Carolyn explained it also makes them that same whiff stiffer.
Before I was lucky to find a Sportivo set, I cut my rear ones just over half a coil and the front almost a complete coil. This also introduced a bit of rake whch deos wonder for illegal speed and side wind stability.
Quote from: Carolyn on June 4, 2021, 09:18I've had quite a few lowered cars in the workshop. They look lovely, but they all cause problems when navigating over 'terrain'.
So I went for totally stock springs and shocks when I refreshed my own car. Glad I did.
I can't see how she 'sits' from inside, but I sure can feel it when bits start to scrape.
Do I recall seeing you had "shaved" 10mm off a standard set of springs? How did that work out? (or do I need to change my prescription?)
Quote from: cptspaulding on June 4, 2021, 13:18Quote from: Carolyn on June 4, 2021, 09:18I've had quite a few lowered cars in the workshop. They look lovely, but they all cause problems when navigating over 'terrain'.
So I went for totally stock springs and shocks when I refreshed my own car. Glad I did.
I can't see how she 'sits' from inside, but I sure can feel it when bits start to scrape.
Do I recall seeing you had "shaved" 10mm off a standard set of springs? How did that work out? (or do I need to change my prescription?)
Yes, I did take half a coil off the fronts, come to think of it.
I Have a practically new set of springs, only done 100 miles, when purchased i was told that they were from a well known German manufacturer and also had the same ones fitted to my old 2000 pfl car on standard suspension and never had a problem.Let me know if interested.
dids if you are selling, pending confirmation of brand etc...
Quote from: Tomo70 on June 3, 2021, 21:10I had tien springs on new shocks,and after 6 months i found i was freighted of speed bump.
I then went for H&R springs on KYB shocks they have been on 2 years 5 thousand miles speed bumps don,t cause any issue and there is no pogo
They are slightly more expensive but worth it
I switched from Tein to H&R as well. Although some specs show they have the same lowering, on our car the H&R sit about 1/2" higher. They also seem slightly stiffer in the front. I never measured the car with stock springs, but compared to other cars, the H&R lower about 1.2" (30 mm)
We started with KYB struts, but switched to Koni inserts which can be adjusted to match the springs better. The combination works very well and rides almost as well as stock
Quote from: Beachbum957 on June 4, 2021, 16:26Quote from: Tomo70 on June 3, 2021, 21:10I had tien springs on new shocks,and after 6 months i found i was freighted of speed bump.
I then went for H&R springs on KYB shocks they have been on 2 years 5 thousand miles speed bumps don,t cause any issue and there is no pogo
They are slightly more expensive but worth it
I switched from Tein to H&R as well. Although some specs show they have the same lowering, on our car the H&R sit about 1/2" higher. They also seem slightly stiffer in the front. I never measured the car with stock springs, but compared to other cars, the H&R lower about 1.2" (30 mm)
We started with KYB struts, but switched to Koni inserts which can be adjusted to match the springs better. The combination works very well and rides almost as well as stock
I must say the idea of Koni adjustable sounds good.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on June 4, 2021, 16:26I switched from Tein to H&R as well. Although some specs show they have the same lowering, on our car the H&R sit about 1/2" higher. They also seem slightly stiffer in the front. I never measured the car with stock springs, but compared to other cars, the H&R lower about 1.2" (30 mm)
We started with KYB struts, but switched to Koni inserts which can be adjusted to match the springs better. The combination works very well and rides almost as well as stock
Thats good to know about the H&R i presumed from the specs they were pretty much identical drop/rate to the Teins, maybe i should try some of them next...
some great comments people thanks!!
I am not a fan of cutting springs personally, so won't go that route.
I might stick with stock springs as my road is a private road and very bumpy!
If i go H&R ill take off the face lift brace from underneath as that's mainly what catches.
Lowered or Brace will become the question i thinks!
Quote from: pistol pete on June 4, 2021, 17:47some great comments people thanks!!
I am not a fan of cutting springs personally, so won't go that route.
I might stick with stock springs as my road is a private road and very bumpy!
If i go H&R ill take off the face lift brace from underneath as that's mainly what catches.
Lowered or Brace will become the question i thinks!
Taking any bracing off a roadster is madness
Quote from: pistol pete on June 4, 2021, 17:47I am not a fan of cutting springs personally,
Do not confuse the internet loons nor the counter-preachers with reality.
I mean; even Carolyn did it.
Seriously, there is nothing wrong with it persé. As with everything though; if done right.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 4, 2021, 17:53Quote from: pistol pete on June 4, 2021, 17:47some great comments people thanks!!
I am not a fan of cutting springs personally, so won't go that route.
I might stick with stock springs as my road is a private road and very bumpy!
If i go H&R ill take off the face lift brace from underneath as that's mainly what catches.
Lowered or Brace will become the question i thinks!
Taking any bracing off a roadster is madness
My appologies Scotte but I agree; even I would not take OEM braces óff ... (unless to fit something bracier still)
Quote from: Petrus on June 4, 2021, 17:58I mean; even Carolyn did it.
so what,
@Carolyn did it? It's not like she's a rocket scientist or anything! Oh, wait...
Quote from: cptspaulding on June 4, 2021, 18:02Quote from: Petrus on June 4, 2021, 17:58I mean; even Carolyn did it.
so what, @Carolyn did it? It's not like she's a rocket scientist or anything! Oh, wait...
:-)
It's a pre facelift. So it never had the brace originally..
Hmm much to think about
If i was making a choice between braces or lowering springs keeping the brace would win all day long.
I am a bit surprised about a FL brace fitting on a PFL ánd about it reducing ground clearance.
I have a PFL with Snelbaard´s front member brace, belly brace and TRD rear lower member braces; nó ground clearance lost.
If I would not have the TRD Sportivo kit, I´d opt for KYBs and OEM springs a wee bit cut down like I had before. Not shed any of the bracing.
Another aspect is that lower springs are stiffer and that makes chassis stiffness more important.
I have been contemplating what to donwith mynworn out suspension for a while, finally decided on a Koni/H&R combo. It's nice to read that most people don't have clearance issues, because I was pretty worried about that. I will report back when I have things on the road again.
Quote from: p5ycho on June 5, 2021, 07:22It's nice to read that most people don't have clearance issues, because I was pretty worried about that.
It ALL depends on where they live and how they drive. Look at your OWN region and use.
You would not be the first to discover how high the central door locking thing on the floor of the garage entry is :-)
The car is a sporty one and none too high as it is. Lees so in a world increasingly aimed at SUVs and crossovers: It is not getting anuy smoother out there.
Ány lowering needs an increase in driver awareness.Mine is VERY little lower, 20-25 front / 15-20 rear, and I have no issues because I adapt to it. Cannot park one wheel on tarmac, one in the verge. Cannot enter some underground parkings. Cannot just romp off the main tarmac onto a parking lot in case there is a step. Etc. Oh and parking with the front towards the sidewalk... I have the optional FL rubber lip und the bumper valance and it will scrape even the lowest so will keep more distance; even from the concrete saucages indicating the space.
Now you've made me worry again!
Seriously though, I haven't scraped anything with stock ride height, so I'll be careful in the beginning and stop on some bumps to check clearance. It'll probably be fine. It's a sports car, it's a compromise anyway.
Quote from: p5ycho on June 5, 2021, 08:40It's a sports car, it's a compromise anyway.
Yes.
The Netherlands not being known for it´s mountainous profile should help.
Quote from: p5ycho on June 5, 2021, 07:22I have been contemplating what to donwith mynworn out suspension for a while, finally decided on a Koni/H&R combo. It's nice to read that most people don't have clearance issues, because I was pretty worried about that. I will report back when I have things on the road again.
The Koni / H&R combination works very well, but the car is lower so you do need to be a bit more careful than stock as far as ground clearance. The measured clearance at the sill jacking points on our 2002 is 5" (130 mm) on our 2002. The clearance will vary based on tire size.
We ran the Tein springs which were even lower for almost 30,000 miles and a few steep driveways and larger speed bumps had to be avoided, especially when carrying a passenger. We were running tires slightly smaller in diameter than stock as well, which aggravated the situation, and have a breastplate, while takes away nearly an inch of clearance, and it normally hit first.
Overall, it was rarely an issue with a bit of care.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on June 5, 2021, 11:46---but the car is lower so you do need to be a bit more careful than stock as far as ground clearance. ---with a bit of care.
In a nutshell ;-)
Btw, sidestepping the ride/right hight:
There is imo a point mostly overlooked in lowering threads.
Toyota went to relaitvely stiffer rear springs for theír lowering products; the rear being twice as stiff as the front. The standard springs are 50% stiffer rear.
This difference in front/rear sping rate doés affect the whole behaviour of the car. Makes it more stable, less roll and pulls the rear closer up to speed of the front; improves suspension balance especially upon entry, when peeling off.
Nearly all after market springs are also 50%. The table is on Spyderchat.
Do take it into account.
Lastly there are at least two specialised firms in the UK who will wind custom spec springs at véry reasonable prices. Boris´s current antics have pissed off the EU so on this side of the Channel you should allow for some extra costs.
The spring chart on Spyderchat should be considered an approximation as some numbers are estimations because the spring supplier didn't list a rate, and some are advertised rates and lowering amounts. Many springs listed are dual rate (Tein) or progressive (H&R), so a single number doesn't tell all that much.
Unlike coilovers with flat spring seats, even calculating rates based on measuring the actual lowering springs isn't completely accurate as it is difficult to get the effective spring rate because of how the springs are mounted in the lower seat.
For example, the H&R and Tein have the same unmounted spring length front and rear, but the H&R doesn't lower as much, so they are effectively stiffer at the static height.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on June 5, 2021, 12:57The spring chart on Spyderchat should be considered an approximation as some numbers are estimations because the spring supplier didn't list a rate, and some are advertised rates and lowering amounts. Many springs listed are dual rate (Tein) or progressive (H&R), so a single number doesn't tell all that much.
Unlike coilovers with flat spring seats, even calculating rates based on measuring the actual lowering springs isn't completely accurate as it is difficult to get the effective spring rate because of how the springs are mounted in the lower seat.
For example, the H&R and Tein have the same unmounted spring length front and rear, but the H&R doesn't lower as much, so they are effectively stiffer at the static height.
So, summerising; caveat emptor and cross you fingers about the relative spring rates ;-)
Makes faffing (slightly cutting down) with the OEM ones even more attractive. At least you know where you are and going. Secondly you can always buy after market ones if you decide you don´t like what you did.