OK. so when I start my suspension refurb,(soon I hope), I plan to replace the very rusty sway bars. I initially thought whiteline, for sure, but then wondered if the upgrade will be worth it given I have no plans to put the car on a track. Would people recommend a switch to whiteline or similar or is a standard bar replacement the more sensible route given no track work planned?
I feel you have internally answered your own question.
Often the best upgrade here is fresh stock whatever the item is.
Quote from: Ardent on November 18, 2021, 15:36I feel you have internally answered your own question.
Often the best upgrade here is fresh stock whatever the item is.
Thanks
@Ardent, starting to look around for standard replacement sway bars, any recommendations for the best source, can't see them on TCBs site? I was prompted to look into this when I saw whiteline are doing front and rear with bushes for £209 incl. Tax and free delivery which is the best price I've seen for those. (This is with a first time purchase discount BTW.)
Just for information, and confirming the usual scenario of Toyota main dealer parts costs....
Local dealer just quoted £658.47 for front and rear arb's, incl. vat and bushes 😲😲😲😲. They would have to come from Japan(bars anyway) arriving in mid December.
So not really an option...
They usually come up pretty good with use of a wire brush, elbow grease and some black paint.
Get the stock ones blasted and powder coated. That's what I did.
I do wonder; they gain a LOT of torsional rigidity per mm thickness. I wonder, if very rusty, how much is lost.
After removing a lot of rust they do look thinner. Even if it's 1mm it would impact it. Or, is it a layer of rust on top of what is already there?
Quote from: Alex Knight on November 19, 2021, 08:04Get the stock ones blasted and powder coated. That's what I did.
Possibly, just depends what condition they are in when I get a good look at them. Maybe too rusty and lost too much material.
Quote from: shnazzle on November 19, 2021, 08:54I do wonder; they gain a LOT of torsional rigidity per mm thickness. I wonder, if very rusty, how much is lost.
After removing a lot of rust they do look thinner. Even if it's 1mm it would impact it. Or, is it a layer of rust on top of what is already there?
Good point, I'm imagining the corrosion being prevalent in the exposed areas but maybe less so through the bushes. But then the rust will creep into the Bush area eventually and reduce the diameter effectively which must impact on their efficiency I would think.
Just to mix it up, driftworks are selling the whiteline front and rears for under £200 as part of their Black Friday deals
https://www.driftworks.com/whiteline-anti-roll-bars-for-toyota-mr2-zzw30-10-2000-3-2006.html
We just installed a Whiteline front bar, and it is calculated at 54% stiffer than stock in the "soft" position. It does make a difference with a slightly stiffer ride on bumps, and noticeably less roll in turns. We are running a OEM rear bar, and currently are waiting on new rear sway bar bushings. They are on back order and apparently coming out of Japan, so keep that in mind on a refresh. The rear bar is an odd size, and we haven't found any aftermarket bushings to fit.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on November 24, 2021, 11:43We just installed a Whiteline front bar, and it is calculated at 54% stiffer than stock in the "soft" position. It does make a difference with a slightly stiffer ride on bumps, and noticeably less roll in turns. We are running a OEM rear bar, and currently are waiting on new rear sway bar bushings. They are on back order and apparently coming out of Japan, so keep that in mind on a refresh. The rear bar is an odd size, and we haven't found any aftermarket bushings to fit.
Good to know its a noticeable improvement. Can I ask why you aren't swapping out the rear arb for whiteline? Or is that a plan for the future?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on November 24, 2021, 19:56Good to know its a noticeable improvement. Can I ask why you aren't swapping out the rear arb for whiteline? Or is that a plan for the future?
We are running H&R springs and previously ran Tein. Because of the tires, spring rates, geometry changes and camber we were running, the back had a tendency toward snap oversteer and wheel spin in tight turns as the rear bar would unload the inside tire. For quite a while we ran a stock front bar and no rear bar which was a very stable combination. Pushed hard, the handling was very neutral and front would give up first, which is a nice benign handling combination on the street. With the stiffer Whiteline front, we could put the OEM rear bar back on and get basically the same balance.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on November 26, 2021, 11:21Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on November 24, 2021, 19:56Good to know its a noticeable improvement. Can I ask why you aren't swapping out the rear arb for whiteline? Or is that a plan for the future?
We are running H&R springs and previously ran Tein. Because of the tires, spring rates, geometry changes and camber we were running, the back had a tendency toward snap oversteer and wheel spin in tight turns as the rear bar would unload the inside tire. For quite a while we ran a stock front bar and no rear bar which was a very stable combination. Pushed hard, the handling was very neutral and front would give up first, which is a nice benign handling combination on the street. With the stiffer Whiteline front, we could put the OEM rear bar back on and get basically the same balance.
That's interesting, sounds like I'll need to be a bit careful cornering with whitelines front and back...
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on November 26, 2021, 12:49That's interesting, sounds like I'll need to be a bit careful cornering with whitelines front and back...
A lot will depend on the overall package. Our tire / spring / setup package made the back a bit more "active" that we liked. With stock springs, the standard sway bars work well with a good balance. So if you go stiffer in the front, you may be able to go stiffer in the rear. The rear Whiteline also has a lot of adjustments
HERE (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67387.msg806425#msg806425) is a link to someone who is running the same bar setup we are. Their experience is about the same as ours
Quote from: Beachbum957 on November 26, 2021, 14:15Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on November 26, 2021, 12:49That's interesting, sounds like I'll need to be a bit careful cornering with whitelines front and back...
A lot will depend on the overall package. Our tire / spring / setup package made the back a bit more "active" that we liked. With stock springs, the standard sway bars work well with a good balance. So if you go stiffer in the front, you may be able to go stiffer in the rear. The rear Whiteline also has a lot of adjustments
HERE (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67387.msg806425#msg806425) is a link to someone who is running the same bar setup we are. Their experience is about the same as ours
In my head I think I'll be setting the whiteline arb at the rear to softest setting and see how we go. I'm no racer so may be irrelevant 😊. I remember a few years ago now when I had my first '02 roadster getting a set of toyo T1r proxes tyres I think. They made alot of difference to my confidence in corners. I know there are better tyres now but wouldn't mind getting the toyo equivalent today. Trouble is I bought the car with a cheap set of tyres on it with loads of tread, so I'll have to wear them out 😂.
BARNPOT2000,
When I did my suspension refresh in Jan 2021 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=70661.msg846079#msg846079) I looked at OE's directly from Anayama in Japan, but because of their size, pushed the delivery up by a load (an additional £200). So I went for Whiteline. Upgraded ones make no difference on the road. You will need different drop links as the thicker ends of the Whiteline's means the nuts on the Whiteline's do not go into safety.
Here's how I solved that one...
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=70714.msg849623#msg849623
Just on the drop link thread issue - I retained stock drop links using Cusco bars, the mounting point thicknesses are close to standard. Might be another option?
20210529_124309.jpg
I would rate them as worth doing both for road and track, gave me a bit more confidence in both environments.
The choice between OEM and aftermarket depends on two things.
1. Do you want to have the ability to adjust for under, over or neutral behavior depending on whatever suspension modifications you add to the mix for correction and for your driving preference.
2. If you plan to use performance tires. Upgraded thicker sway bars will take the car to the edge of traction earlier and increase the demands of the tire.
Another downside is you will lose more of the independent suspension and if you don't know how to adjust it can cause less forgiveness at the limit on less than ideal roads.
The big upside with sway bars is if you upgrade your struts to something stiffer to reduce camber change but you still want comfort and damping control you can run softer springs. They make street setups possible but if these things are not needed I would stay with the OEM sway bars because the car is tuned just right as long as you don't mess with anything else.