This is something that has been puzzling me, what are the main difference between this engine and ours apart from the 50BHP?
Did they use ours as a base or is it totally different?
I know they are both 1.8's and so it'd slot nicely into our engine bay but how heavy is it and can it be modified to fit a RWD car?
Quote from: "bigun007"I know they are both 1.8's and so it'd slot nicely into our engine bay but how heavy is it and can it be modified to fit a RWD car?
That not really good logic.
As far as I know they are different engines and one of the main reasons it won't just slot straight in to the MR2 is the different mounting points.
--H--
Yeah, they have pretty much nothing in common s:) :) s:)
CIN has the "T-Sport" 2ZZ-GE in his car. Check these threads:
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5545 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5545) m
m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5852 (http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5852) m
"In first gear it will spin the wheels all the way to redline just punching it" s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "Hardcore"Quote from: "bigun007"I know they are both 1.8's and so it'd slot nicely into our engine bay but how heavy is it and can it be modified to fit a RWD car?
That not really good logic.
As far as I know they are different engines and one of the main reasons it won't just slot straight in to the MR2 is the different mounting points.
--H--
Was just thinking of size - mounting points can be modified as has jsut been shown.
although in this instance it will fit. The fact that the are both 1.8 ebgines has no bearing on the physical size of the lump.
Quote from: "markiii"although in this instance it will fit. The fact that the are both 1.8 ebgines has no bearing on the physical size of the lump.
Exactly my point.
--H--
Ok my mistake, i thought they'd be of a "similar" size as they were of the same capacity.
I stand corrected. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Gets aggresive in here sometimes eh s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Oh and TBH i'd rather have been told WHY its not the same size so i know for next time rather than to have just been told NO.
Tem's was the only reply i think that was what i have come to expect from this forum, reactions like that will just stop people from posting questions.
Quote from: "bigun007"Oh and TBH i'd rather have been told WHY its not the same size so i know for next time rather than to have just been told NO.
Because Toyota designed them that way? Despite the similar designators, they're chalk-and-cheese.
QuoteTem's was the only reply i think that was what i have come to expect from this forum, reactions like that will just stop people from posting questions.
I'm pretty sure that the topic has been covered before; try using the Search (http://www.mr2roc.org/search.php)
Quote from: "bigun007"Oh and TBH i'd rather have been told WHY its not the same size so i know for next time rather than to have just been told NO.
Tem's was the only reply i think that was what i have come to expect from this forum, reactions like that will just stop people from posting questions.
It's power characteristics would be totally unsuitable for the 'snappy' mr2 anyway. (the mrs has a 190hp Celica).
Whilst on the subject, a V6 would be too heavy.
A controlled lpt(urbo) is what you want - roll on TTE! (please) s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"It's power characteristics would be totally unsuitable for the 'snappy' mr2 anyway.
I think Cin, LR and the people in Japan would disagree.
Quote from: "WoodenDummy"Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"It's power characteristics would be totally unsuitable for the 'snappy' mr2 anyway.
I think Cin, LR and the people in Japan would disagree.
have you driven a vvtli engine? t works in fwd installation fine, but if you were cornering hard when lift came in..... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
I have s:) :) s:)
It is fine. You need to be good at handling the car though. With this engine the car will power oversteer more. The spike is of no concern though. With my setup it can only be felt in 1st gear. 2nd is practically non existant. With some more tuning I think I can take the spike out. s:) :) s:)
The car is much much faster now.
Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"Quote from: "WoodenDummy"Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"It's power characteristics would be totally unsuitable for the 'snappy' mr2 anyway.
I think Cin, LR and the people in Japan would disagree.
have you driven a vvtli engine? t works in fwd installation fine, but if you were cornering hard when lift came in..... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
...and what? The NSX seems to do fine...?
Quote from: "bigun007"Oh and TBH i'd rather have been told WHY its not the same size so i know for next time rather than to have just been told NO.
Tem's was the only reply i think that was what i have come to expect from this forum, reactions like that will just stop people from posting questions.
Here we go again...comments like yours will just alienate you from the forum...I believe the last heated discussion was re your own site...lets not stir up all the reasons that died now eh!.
Quote from: "bigun007"This is something that has been puzzling me, what are the main difference between this engine and ours apart from the 50BHP?
Did they use ours as a base or is it totally different?
I know they are both 1.8's and so it'd slot nicely into our engine bay but how heavy is it and can it be modified to fit a RWD car?
Quote from: "Hardcore"Quote from: "bigun007"I know they are both 1.8's and so it'd slot nicely into our engine bay but how heavy is it and can it be modified to fit a RWD car?
That not really good logic.
As far as I know they are different engines and one of the main reasons it won't just slot straight in to the MR2 is the different mounting points.
--H--
Quote from: "bigun007"Oh and TBH i'd rather have been told WHY its not the same size so i know for next time rather than to have just been told NO.
Tem's was the only reply i think that was what i have come to expect from this forum, reactions like that will just stop people from posting questions.
Oh and to enforce may annoyence at you bigun!, I think Hardcores reply answered your question, he did not just say no...so maybe read peoples posts before slating every member her except for Tem!
Quote from: "WoodenDummy"Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"Quote from: "WoodenDummy"Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"It's power characteristics would be totally unsuitable for the 'snappy' mr2 anyway.
I think Cin, LR and the people in Japan would disagree.
have you driven a vvtli engine? t works in fwd installation fine, but if you were cornering hard when lift came in..... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
...and what? The NSX seems to do fine...?
I believe the NSX is a bit heavier and has more traction/less dramatic breakaway due to that weight, longer wheelbase, wider rubber.?
btw, thanks for your input CIN. I think my preference would be an sc, but seeing as how there's not enough room, a progressive turbo (from TTE????) would do. The vvtli is huge fun in the Celi when lift kicks in, but does suffer from lack of torque(has less than 140 iirc) and lack of go below 4k, has a little more btween 4&6, then takes off
Quote from: "cstevens"Oh and to enforce may annoyence at you bigun!, I think Hardcores reply answered your question, he did not just say no...so maybe read peoples posts before slating every member her except for Tem!
I think HC gave a proper answer too... still it was not a complete explination down to diagrams, graphs and charts with a 40,000 word essay like it should have been s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Shame on your hardcore! s:P :P s:P
Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"I believe the NSX is a bit heavier and has more traction/less dramatic breakaway due to that weight, longer wheelbase, wider rubber.?
hmm point taken.
s:oops: :oops: s:oops: Sorry guys, was a bad day at the office s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "bigun007":oops: Sorry guys, was a bad day at the office s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Well get hold of your boss and kick him in the nuts.... ok, you may not keep your job for much longer, but i will make you feel a lot better and a legend in the office... let me know how it goes for ya! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Ok, lets expand this thread even further. Would it be possable to drop a second 2 engine in the front s:?: :?: s:?:
I would like to point out at this stage.....before being flamed from every angle......this is just a silly idea that popped in to my head & I have no plans to try it & yes it would ruin the perfect handling of the 2....blah, blah, blah..............
Would be interesting though s:!: :!: s:!:
Respect! s:P :P s:P
Quote from: "SilverMSD2"Ok, lets expand this thread even further. Would it be possable to drop a second 2 engine in the front s:?: :?: s:?:
I would like to point out at this stage.....before being flamed from every angle......this is just a silly idea that popped in to my head & I have no plans to try it & yes it would ruin the perfect handling of the 2....blah, blah, blah..............
Would be interesting though s:!: :!: s:!:
WTF?
You are the original nutter!
We could also install dilythium crystals in the storage bins for a bit of extra "poke"
Quote from: "SilverMSD2"Ok, lets expand this thread even further. Would it be possable to drop a second 2 engine in the front s:?: :?: s:?:
If they managed to drop an extra engine at the back of the TT (http://www.mtm-online.de/presseberichte/au_bimoto_6.pdf) why couldn't they drop one at the front of the MR2???
Space would be one issue but I reckon a boxer could just about fit...
Now, imagine if the standard engine at the back was replaced by a boxer as well... And imagine if those boxer engines had turbos...
Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"Quote from: "WoodenDummy"Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"Quote from: "WoodenDummy"Quote from: "Jonny Turbo"It's power characteristics would be totally unsuitable for the 'snappy' mr2 anyway.
I think Cin, LR and the people in Japan would disagree.
have you driven a vvtli engine? t works in fwd installation fine, but if you were cornering hard when lift came in..... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
...and what? The NSX seems to do fine...?
I believe the NSX is a bit heavier and has more traction/less dramatic breakaway due to that weight, longer wheelbase, wider rubber.?
btw, thanks for your input CIN. I think my preference would be an sc, but seeing as how there's not enough room, a progressive turbo (from TTE????) would do. The vvtli is huge fun in the Celi when lift kicks in, but does suffer from lack of torque(has less than 140 iirc) and lack of go below 4k, has a little more btween 4&6, then takes off
Actually the difference in torque is more then compensated by the much closer ratios of the 6speed. The celica engine has more power in practically all of the powerband. You must also consider than I run the engine with a Power FC s;) ;) s;)
The turbo will probably be faster than the celica engine inthe straights and have much more torque down low for normal driving. In a circuit however a properly set up 2ZZ will be hard to beat especially in the corners. The engine has superb response and if kept above 6k(which an be done if you know that you must change gears everytime the revs drop)it is a little beast. s:) :) s:)
A turbo will also have lag but you can always put an anti lag on it to improve it s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Actually Iwould like to see an MR-S turbo with antilag s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:
Quote from: "cstevens"Quote from: "SilverMSD2"Ok, lets expand this thread even further. Would it be possable to drop a second 2 engine in the front s:?: :?: s:?:
I would like to point out at this stage.....before being flamed from every angle......this is just a silly idea that popped in to my head & I have no plans to try it & yes it would ruin the perfect handling of the 2....blah, blah, blah..............
Would be interesting though s:!: :!: s:!:
WTF?
You are the original nutter!
Not that nutty, saw a VR6 on Men & Motors with 2 engines. Pulled a 3 point something second 0 to 60 & Top Gear had a twin engined car attempting some sort of acceleration record.
Yeah, your right.....I'm the original nutter s:!: :!: s:!:
Quote from: "Rusty"We could also install dilythium crystals in the storage bins for a bit of extra "poke"
OK smart arse, where would you put Scotty s:?: :?: s:?:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Yep, i saw that mate, think it was 2 kwak zx12r engines...
Did hold the record 0-60 time..
Quote from: "RUSTY"We could also install dilythium crystals in the storage bins for a bit of extra "poke"
That's a bit old hat isn't it? TRI-lthium is all the rage now, y'know! s:D :D s:D
DP
Wouldn't we need bi lithium crystals with us having MR2's s:!: :!: s:!:
I read about a twin engined R5 GTT that ran mid 9sec 1/4's.
It was 4WD as well.
So my original idea suddenly doesn't seem so silly after all s:!: :!: s:!:
http://www.knights19.freeserve.co.uk/twin.htm
And it's not like the VW W12 engine is that dissimilar an idea either.
any one know where i can get one of the T-sport engine in UK??i m seriously thinkin that i want to put a 2ZZ in my spyder. if anyone know any 2zz engine for sale please let me know..
sam
Quote from: "lautll421"any one know where i can get one of the T-sport engine in UK??i m seriously thinkin that i want to put a 2ZZ in my spyder. if anyone know any 2zz engine for sale please let me know..
sam
ok look, no offense, but if you don't know where you can get a 2ZZ from without asking I don't think you'd be able to do this kinda drop...
i will get the fitting kit from TPS in japan as i got contact and almost gettin parts from japan every month, i done similar kind of drop in my RWD corolla AE86 with the balck top 20V engine with refiguration of waterpipe, manifold and distributor and so i think this will be a good project for me...... if anyone know any info please let me know, IF i dont find one here with a reasonable price then i will prob get one from trial Japan 2ZZ/3ZZ stroked Full kit with power FC
cheers
sam
Quote from: "lautll421"corolla AE86 with the balck top 20V engine
Just for the record, 20V to AE86 is a lot easier than 2ZZ into MR2 s;) ;) s;)
You might wanna check w www.spyderchat.com (http://www.spyderchat.com) w forums, lots of info there about this swap.
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "lautll421"corolla AE86 with the balck top 20V engine
Just for the record, 20V to AE86 is a lot easier than 2ZZ into MR2 s;) ;) s;)
You might wanna check w www.spyderchat.com (http://www.spyderchat.com) w forums, lots of info there about this swap.
A LOT!.
thats why i will enquire about tps in Japan to get me a kit already made engine mount, harness and manifold!!!not cheap but a lot easier!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
sam
Quote from: "lautll421"thats why i will enquire about tps in Japan to get me a kit already made engine mount, harness and manifold!!!not cheap but a lot easier!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
sam
What about the gearbox primary shaft (or custom built drive shafts if you go with the Celica gearbox) s:?: :?: s:?: :?::?:
There is a lot more to this conversion than you seem to realise - otherwise we would have all done it by now.
Quote from: "lautll421"thats why i will enquire about tps in Japan to get me a kit already made engine mount, harness and manifold!!!not cheap but a lot easier!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
sam
I hope you have a good project manager because this is a major undertaking (I am not saying that it can not be done). I agree with Steve, there might be more to it than you anticipate and the amount of time required to get the car rolling with the new engine might surprise you.
It's been ages since I last logged in Spyderchat but, if I remember correctly, two guys have done it.
Have you thought of the alternatives? Going for a turbo of some sort or even getting rid of the MR2 for a car that's faster, i.e. an Elise.
well i dont need the celica box as i have a 6spd on my car s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
there are somethin i need to ask TPS or Trial in japan but it should be ok
the reason i think not many ppl have done that i think is becos all the price that add up will cost more than a turbo, i agreed but i love to rev the car and keep it in that zone and no lag thrill!!!!may be i m watchin too many Hot Verion Touge battle with the spirit MR-S..... s:D :D s:D
sam
Having the six speed box does not mean you have the celica primary shaft - you will still need to change it - the 1ZZ flywheel has NOT (to the best of my knowledge) changed between the pre & post face lift cars - hence the shaft is still wrong.
You'll still have a sort of lag whilst you wait for it to hit 4k, then 6k for lift.
may be i should say responsiveness rather then lag......
Also i will make sure i will get the complete package from Japan
sam
Even if the shaft was right, I very much doubt that even the newer 6 speed box could handle the Celica engine for too long.
TPS in japan use the 6 speed box ok and it should be fine and the six speed box is quite strong.......anyone can host video on their site??>?i really want to share the hot version video with everyone
sam
yeah i can... how big is the video? If its under 5mb send it to e
mr2roc@mr2-roadster.co.uk e
the 6 speed is the same as that in the celica so it should be able to surely.
is on a VCD and i got lot ob MR-S 190bhp battle with different turbo cars on mountain and track, is on a VCD so is about 400meg!!!!!
sam
anyone wanna host it?
Quote from: "lautll421"is on a VCD and i got lot ob MR-S 190bhp battle with different turbo cars on mountain and track, is on a VCD so is about 400meg!!!!!
sam
anyone wanna host it?
oh its that one... already seen it. Tem posted a link to it recently... only about 56mb.
Quote from: "markiii"the 6 speed is the same as that in the celica so it should be able to surely.
Hmmm... I will take your word for it.
I thought the MR2 box would be a bespoke design since the MR2 is the only Toyota model with the engine at the back.
Lag! What Lag. The turbo comes in at 1300rpm, if you stamp on the gas with the revs anywhere over this the powers just there.
s:evil: :evil: s:evil: When is the next meet anyone that is interested in a turbo is going too ?(preferebly Midland area) and i'll come along for anyone to have a go.Hopefully Martin could come too for those with manual and SMT.
Quote from: "mr-s_turbo"Lag! What Lag.
Uh, quite. Not that I know Ian's setup, but lag and responsiveness are non-issues.
Looks like I'm going to be floating around Luton area at the weekend if anyone's interested in seeing how unresponsive the turbo is s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "mph"Quote from: "mr-s_turbo"Lag! What Lag.
Uh, quite. Not that I know Ian's setup, but lag and responsiveness are non-issues.
Looks like I'm going to be floating around Luton area at the weekend if anyone's interested in seeing how unresponsive the turbo is s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:) :) s:)
but no, turbo has a lag... and when I race around track at 2,000 RPM I am going to notice it s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
gotta get annoyed with ppl talking about turbo lag...
I didnt now it become a debate whether turbo is good or not.....but this is not the purpose of my post...i like turbo too but i just prefer NA s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
anyway ..if anyone know a celica engine lyin around, please let me know
cos i try a few salvage places and still cant find it
thx
sam
Quote from: "spwolf"but no, turbo has a lag... and when I race around track at 2,000 RPM I am going to notice it s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
track.. 2000rpm? I suggest you learn how to change gear first. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Quote from: "lautll421"I didnt now it become a debate whether turbo is good or not.....but this is not the purpose of my post...i like turbo too but i just prefer NA s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
anyway ..if anyone know a celica engine lyin around, please let me know
cos i try a few salvage places and still cant find it
thx
sam
If you are going to get the stuff from japan i suggest you talk to scot from TRIAL.
Spirit will not answer any english emails and will most probably not sell any kit of theirs.
Trial on the other hand will as I was in talk with them before. They can offer the whole deal with a tuned PFC including the engine.
The 2ZZ will work with the MR-S 5speed and 6speed. Shafts are the same for both engines.
A turbo will be faster. The 2ZZ is difficult to drive fast but it can go to 8300rpm s:) :) s:)
Quote from: "mph"Quote from: "spwolf"but no, turbo has a lag... and when I race around track at 2,000 RPM I am going to notice it s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
track.. 2000rpm? I suggest you learn how to change gear first. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Martin, I think he got you s;) ;) s;) I'm sure he was saying "no one drives at 2000rpm when they wanna go fast" s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "mph"Quote from: "mr-s_turbo"Lag! What Lag.
Uh, quite. Not that I know Ian's setup, but lag and responsiveness are non-issues.
Looks like I'm going to be floating around Luton area at the weekend if anyone's interested in seeing how unresponsive the turbo is s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:) :) s:)
when are you in Luton, Martin? I close...ish. will you go via the M1?
do u have scott email address i can contact him??
thx
sam
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "mph"Quote from: "spwolf"but no, turbo has a lag... and when I race around track at 2,000 RPM I am going to notice it s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
track.. 2000rpm? I suggest you learn how to change gear first. s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Martin, I think he got you s;) ;) s;) I'm sure he was saying "no one drives at 2000rpm when they wanna go fast" s8) 8) s8)
heh yep, I thought sarcasm was obvious there s;-) ;-) s;-) ))))
I dont think anyone that likes to drive has any issues with keeping the engine in the boost zone... heck I drive my CTS (2zzge) above 6k all the time without any issues... cant wait to tubo my mr2 s:D :D s:D
Quote from: "lautll421"do u have scott email address i can contact him??
thx
sam
Wah did not see this sorry.
e
scott@trial.co.jp e