Hardtop and performance

Anonymous · August 28, 2006, 10:11

Hi,

I'm thinking of getting a hardtop for my MK3 and have read that many people think it "completely transforms the car." Other than being quieter and looking better, surely an extra 50kg so high up detracts quite severely from the car's performance? I'd be interested to hear what others have found before I go and spend a load of cash - even secondhand ones aren't cheap.

Many thanks

Al

spit · August 28, 2006, 10:27

Depends on how you interpret performance. Yes its adding weight, but its very effective at tightening the car up and improving the handling. Not sure about the aerodynamic advantages but it has to be an improvement on softop or top-down motoring.

I've been adding bracing steadily over the past couple of years, but any time the hardtop has gone on its been a very noticeable improvement on the twisties and more stable at motorway speeds.

filcee · August 28, 2006, 10:33

Adding the hardtop after driving around all summer without it definitely makes mine feel different. It seems to roll a bit more in the corners with the weight higher up (my '2 is bone stock). Yes, it is quieter, and arguably a bit stiffer, though the roll in a stock set up may work to counteract any additional stiffness as a result of putting the lid on. With the '2 feeding back as well as it does, there's certainly the feeling of something 'different' going on, so I feel as if I have to slightly modify my driving style initially to cope with the change - though I suspect that's probably more my imagination than anything else.

spit · August 28, 2006, 10:37

Thats a good point Phil ... it does change the characteristics of the car and requires a bit of learning when you switch.

Oh, & as for weight, I think you'll find its 50lbs (22.7kg) not 50kg. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Tem · August 28, 2006, 11:03

Quote from: "spit"Oh, & as for weight, I think you'll find its 50lbs (22.7kg) not 50kg. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

For a minute I thought I'm strong, lifting 50kg around myself...but you just had to spoil it! s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Anonymous · February 19, 2007, 18:28

Quote from: "alexcday"Hi,

I'm thinking of getting a hardtop for my MK3 and have read that many people think it "completely transforms the car." Other than being quieter and looking better, surely an extra 50kg so high up detracts quite severely from the car's performance? I'd be interested to hear what others have found before I go and spend a load of cash - even secondhand ones aren't cheap.

Many thanks

Al

Hi, Hard top it so good in the winter your think you got two car's and no change to the performance at all and looks very good to.
just think you got, hard top, soft top or no top

Gary stone

rtbiscuit · February 19, 2007, 18:50

i'v just taken mine off this week as the sun seems to visit occasionally.

must admit the driving feels very different.

hardtop = very stiff setup, little more roll in the corners.

softtop = less body roll in the corners, more vertical feeling through the car, ie suspension going up and down.

no top = more independent suspension feeling i.e even with the FSB i feel the suspension over bumps get judders through the steering etc.

not as clear as i could be been a long day, this is about as much as i feel like writing. hope this makes sense.

Anonymous · February 19, 2007, 20:24

definitly yes! get one! it does improve the cars handling and i think looks kool aswell s8)

s8) s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

they should have made it a standard part for all 2's

thumbs up!

Anonymous · February 19, 2007, 20:58

I love the hardtop on the car but what I was thinking is on the track would it be better on or off ?

rtbiscuit · February 19, 2007, 21:10

its one of the things i love about the 2, its like owning 3 different cars.

with the roof on it feels more planted,

but with soft top on it feels more communicative

for tracking i wouldn't have the top down, unless you had some serious bracing under the car.

saying that i've never been on a track and could be miles off, i'm sure someone more track experienced will correct me.

Anonymous · February 19, 2007, 21:18

you might not be that far off!

alot on the guys on SC that do the autocross dont use hardtops, i think it is less is more!

kanujunkie · February 19, 2007, 21:31

you can get the same handling effects as haveing a hardtop on the 2 with braceing. the TTE underbody brace with some form of braceing at the top of the car will give you a similar effect. Personally i have a one piece davids bars and a corkies plate, works well

loadswine · February 19, 2007, 21:42

I totally agree with Stu, I have the TTE underbody, and Cusco FSB and notice no difference with the hard top being off. It didn't roll much with the top on , as I have uprated ARBs, but the weight distribution must be slightly better. On a B road blast on saturday it felt so well balanced.
We talk a huge amount about getting more power on here, that is good too, but the advantages of a sweetly set up 2 should not be under estimated.
Bracing improves the 2 so much, it has to be worth quite a few horses, certainly nicer and easier to drive imho. s:)

s:)

Liz · February 19, 2007, 21:44

Do you want a red one - I have one for sale!! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

rtbiscuit · February 19, 2007, 22:19

you guys have no scrupals,

any oportunity to sell something to some one, and there is the gratuatus plug. (not using any names liz and phil) s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

by the way, i'm saving up for some stuff for the car and wandered if anybody wanted to buy the following items,

-my soul
-my body
-my mind
-my DNA

open to offers

(or if the vultures are coming name what you want s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

loadswine · February 19, 2007, 22:25

We already have your soul , it belongs to the club. ( said in a spine tingling Vincent Price voice) s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

rtbiscuit · February 19, 2007, 22:29

true,

and the club also seems to have my wallet as well,

so still selling my body and mind! s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

firepower · February 19, 2007, 22:35

body and mind should be able to afford a new valve cap then s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

rtbiscuit · February 19, 2007, 22:44

got those already s:D

s:D

thats a bit mean thought i might at least be able to afford a new TRD radiator cap

firepower · February 19, 2007, 22:58

sorry could'nt resist and your right i was mean im sure body and mind is worth more than a valve cap s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

mrsmr2 · February 20, 2007, 11:57

Good points:

Hardtop stiffens up the car a lot.

Vibration through the steering wheel is significantly reduced.

The windscreen doesn't shake as much (something you only really notice after taking the hard top off).

Steering feels more precise.

Stock exhaust sounds much better in the car with the hardtop on.

Performance wise, I was neck and neck at Elvington with a softtopped 2 (which also had a Unichip) so not much in it.

The reason why it feels like it rolls more with the top on is because the body isn't flexing as much, which is absorbing some of the stress.

I can see the impact on steering from my track day videos. With the softtop down, I can see me adjusting my steering going into a corner, with the hardtop on I look a lot smoother. It's the result of less body flex.

Downsides

The car can seem more clinical with the hardtop on. With the softtop there seems a tad more fun messing around with lifting off the throttle. I think it's because there is a delay as the chassis stops flexing so it feels like it's reacting more.

I always want to take it off if it's not raining.

firepower · February 20, 2007, 15:15

the only reason you should want a hard top for your 2 should be for the winter months not for better handling the whole point of the 2 is its a convertible i think you should look else were for handling performance like springs and chasis braces etc then even with the top down you will still be able to enjoy exellent handling , the tte chassis brace may even provide as much extra stiffening as a hard top

rtbiscuit · February 20, 2007, 16:13

very true fire power,

i got mine for the winter to protect the soft top from frost and other nasty stuff.

took mine off at the weekend, now back to soft top. i foundover the winter their were several days when i wanted to drive home from work with the roff down but couldn't cos i had the hardtop.

the only other time i would put the hardtop on would be for security if i was going somewhere i didn't know and thought it a dodgy area. wouldn't want my soft top slashed by some opertunist pikey, who wanted to try my car for free.

(used to live in coventry, believe i was in the highest insurance bracket in the country at the time CV1) (used to leave the car bare when packed in the comunal carpark, cos if you left something in it, it wouldn't be there in the morning. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

filcee · February 20, 2007, 16:38

Quote from: "firepower"the only reason you should want a hard top for your 2 should be for the winter months not for better handling the whole point of the 2 is its a convertible i think you should look else were for handling performance like springs and chasis braces etc then even with the top down you will still be able to enjoy exellent handling , the tte chassis brace may even provide as much extra stiffening as a hard top

I believe that WoodenDummy[1] removed his soft-top in favour of a permanent hard-top because he thought the improvements were worth having. Horses for courses, I suppose.

[1] Used to post here lots, but I think has moved on to a VX220 so hasn't been seen here for a while

mrsmr2 · February 20, 2007, 17:50

Some of us bought an MR2 because it was a good handling car, cheap to run, and rear wheel drive. Being able to take the roof down is an added bonus.

The hardtop improves the chassis strength no end and is not just for winter.

Having said that, I didn't put mine on at all this winter. I would have done for the Bedford track day though (had it not been cancelled).

A bad thing about the hardtop is feeling how wobbly the car is after you take it off.