Driving Technique (sorry long one)

[Anonymous]

Everyone seems to be very interested in driving in the conditions we have at the minute and i thought you may be interested in the following. its not new but may be to some of you. *please note, these are things not to be practised on the road, but should be done on a track or private land where you can practice*

Power Sliding/or Oversteer is when the rear of the car is held out in oversteer using the power and the front of the car is kept in check using the steering.

Because the rear wheels are driven you can brake traction to the rear wheels by simply applying enough power that the tyres can no longer hold the road.  If the front wheels maintain grip you will go into oversteer.

Once the car is sideways you need to balance the front of the car with the steering and the rear of the car with the power.



Generally speaking, more power means more sideways.  If the car starts to swing too sideways you should back off so the rear tyres can grip the road a bit.  If the rear wheels start to grip you need to quickly add more power to push the rear of the car out a bit.

It is important to note that unless you have loads of grunt, both applying and releasing the throttle will not cause an immediate response.  Usually, lifting off will react quicker than putting your foot down.

You can provoke this without the power by using the scandinavian flick, (putting the car into a brake mantained skid pointing away from the corner and letting the car flick into the corner at the last minute thus inducing instant oversteer and providing grip to the front wheels, feather the brakes or lock them for a big slide to shave off lots of speed).


The best way to think of steering is to just keep the front wheels pointing in the direction you want the whole car to travel, regardless of the actual angle of the car.

This means you use the throttle to alter the angle of the car (the direction it is pointing in) and the steering to alter the direction it is traveling in.  The two work in conjunction with each other.

This technique is used extensively in rallying and other derivatives.  Done well it will improve you speed through a corner and out of it (the most important thing in producing good stage times).  Practice makes perfect (or costs you a lot of money) but watching a skilled driver you will see little steering movement.  The ideal method is to turn in hit the gas and let the car go sideways, set the steering (opposite lock) and steer the car using the throttle.  The corner should be timed so that the opposite lock will be smoothly wound off until the car is accelerating straight on out of the corner.

The whole point of a power slide is reducing the grip of the rear wheels in relation to the front wheels.  For this reason you must be constantly looking at the advancing surface and adjusting the power accordingly.

If the surface is about to become more slippy, you should be conservative with the power but not back off until the rear wheels are on it.  The car should start to slide more due to the slippy surface but coming off the power will reduce the forced lack of grip and hopefully keep the car in check.

If the surface is about to become more grippy, you should hit the gas and put the car slightly more sideways in preparation for the impending grip.  When the rear tyres hit the grippy surface you need to apply enough power to keep the rear wheels spinning.
*Big hint* Blipping the throttle constantly monitors the rate of traction break, we all have a tendency to push our foot down harder and the more we do the more chance we go backwards through the hedge!!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

During a power slide the car is being balanced on its absolute limit.  For this reason it is also at its most potentially unstable.  If the rear wheels suddenly grip the car can snap into vicious oversteer in the other direction.  Knowing when to wind off the lock is one of the most important things to get right.

DISASTER RECOVERY (Again practice)
Left foot braking in a rear wheel drive car is quite unusual.  It's first use is to aid stability in corners, and help keep turbos spinning by holding the car at the correct speed with the brake and keeping your foot on the gas.  Apart from this, it has recently been adopted by some drivers as disaster recovery.

If you are tanking into a corner, particularly in the wet and the car goes into massive oversteer you may wind on the opposite lock.  If it has gone too far it may be possible to floor the accelerator and hit the brake with the left foot.

The idea is that you will keep the rear wheels turning due to the power of the engine, but will lock up the front wheels.  This puts more grip to the rear wheels and less to the front, hopefully bringing the car straight.

This is really only a last attempt technique for recovering previously irrecoverable situations.  If you were to use it as a general driving technique you will be one of the slowest drivers on the track  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

To practice your car control, and before you really get into the above I would suggest the first thing you do, is get a private area, some cones and space them approx' 20-30 feet apart. Get the car running at a speed your comfortable to begin with.....

Turn in just after the first cone and hit the gas (or feather the brakes).  The car will start to oversteer and you need to correct with a bit of opposite lock (point where you want the car to go).  Keep the power on to hold the tail out (blip it to gauge the surface)and lift off at the point you want to change direction.  the car will quickly swing round in a motion similar to the pendulum.  Catch it with opposite lock in the other direction and hit the gas again, and so on. Rhythm helps here, and a light foot, if your too heavy you'll spin it every time. The more you do it, the more chance if your car starts to spin without notice (you'll get more sensitive with practice to your cars feedback) that you won't respond by applying shedloads of the loud peddle and reverse into the ditch.

This is well worth practicing as it can seriously improve your car control. If you change your tyres or geometry, suspension you should start all over again  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  



There's lots more to this topic but this is something for many to get your teeth into it! Good driving! And be safe in the winter!  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Edited by Moderator]

After asking for credits for the above, the following was supplied.

Credits
Phil Price - Rally driver
Phil gardner - As above
John Felstead - Amateur Driver (metro class)
Me - Very bad driver  
Kelvin Burt (schoolmate, better driver)- Saloons/F3/F1??
BSB

[/Edited by Moderator]

[Peter Laborne]

Everyone seems to be very interested in driving in the conditions we have at the minute and i thought you may be interested in the following. its not new but may be to some of you. *please note, these are things not to be practised on the road, but should be done on a track or private land where you can practice*

Hmm. Personally I'd still recomend having lessions in advanced car control. I thought I knew lots from what people had told me. I used to practice. I was good......or so I thought. Up until I went on the Driving Development course with Don Palmer. Then I realised I knew nothing.

You can provoke this without the power by using the scandinavian flick,

Common guys, hands up. Who would rather take their 2 at high speed through the gravel in a Welsh forest, or through the Craner Curves / Paddock Hill Bend / Lodge at high speed?

The Scandinavian Flick is great for your Scoobies and Evos etc, but we have sports cars. We concentrate more on hitting the apex's etc.

DISASTER RECOVERY (Again practice)
Left foot braking in a rear wheel drive car is quite unusual.

It is? Nothing beats the good old heal-and-toe. From us in our 2's to Mr Schuey in his F1 Ferrari (again mid-engined rear-wheel drive....does that make it a MR1?) a bit of gas and a bit of brake is perfect. When you have no need for the clutch, or you have an SMT, why not use your left foot? It does take great care as, at first, you will be a bit heavy with it.

This is well worth practicing as it can seriously improve your car control. If you change your tyres or geometry, suspension you should start all over again  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I'm all with practicing as it will give you knowledge and insight into what the car will do. But I don't agree that it will seriously improve your car control. I used to practice and I thought I knew what to do. But my own rule book was thrown into the fire when I went on driving and racing courses. I learnt sooo much more and nearly everything I thought I knew was wrong.

And then there were things like how to make a spin/slide tighter or longer without knowingly altering the steering, acceleration, brake or clutch   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Not wanting to flame you adair69, but it looks like what you have written applies mainly to the world of rallying. IMHO these techniquies will loose you time on the track and are not reccomended for use on the road (there isn't that much room for powersliding and as for the flick....on a road   s:!: :!: s:!:    s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:!: :!: s:!:  ).

[Anonymous]

DISASTER RECOVERY (Again practice)
Left foot braking in a rear wheel drive car is quite unusual.

It is? Nothing beats the good old heal-and-toe. From us in our 2's

Dunno about you all, but when I heel-and-toe, I do the braking with my right foot... not my left.  So either left foot braking is something else, or I've been doing the H&T thing wrong.

<edit>
Wikipedia confirms my suspicions... left foot braking and H&T are two different things.  Wiki says that LFB is for FWD cars only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-foot_braking
</edit>

[Peter Laborne]

Wikipedia confirms my suspicions... left foot braking and H&T are two different things.  Wiki says that LFB is for FWD cars only

They are completely different. H&T your right foot covers the brake and accelerator and your left on clutch. But where you don't have a clutch pedel then you can use your right on the accelerator and left foot brake   s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

Wikipedia confirms my suspicions... left foot braking and H&T are two different things.  Wiki says that LFB is for FWD cars only

They are completely different. H&T your right foot covers the brake and accelerator and your left on clutch. But where you don't have a clutch pedel then you can use your right on the accelerator and left foot brake   s:) s:)

Another reason for getting SMT....

a) you can do LFB
b) H&T is harder, so the SMT does it for you.

Next car perhaps  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

No Pete not flamed at all  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

I just notice there are a number of people going backwards through hedges and the like.

Hmm. Personally I'd still recomend having lessions in advanced car control. I thought I knew lots from what people had told me. I used to practice. I was good......or so I thought. Up until I went on the Driving Development course with Don Palmer. Then I realised I knew nothing.

I agree always have professional lessons, I'd recommend a Track course and a Wet course every time, we are great at driving fast in straight lines but never round corners  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Common guys, hands up. Who would rather take their 2 at high speed through the gravel in a Welsh forest, or through the Craner Curves / Paddock Hill Bend / Lodge at high speed?
The Scandinavian Flick is great for your Scoobies and Evos etc, but we have sports cars. We concentrate more on hitting the apex's etc.

I agree   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Much prefer predictable open roads where I know exactly what the surface is going to be like, late braking and accelerating at the Apex as with police pursuit training. 12 yr olds are impressed with wheelspin, but the scandinavian flick is when your driving through the peaks and didn't realise that the corner was quite that eeerr Sharp  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  It scrubs off speed and keeps you safe. lets face it we are rear wheel drive, the rally cars are 70/30 bias to the rear also, try doing a scandinavian flick in a 4 wheel 50/50 set up with LSD's and forget it its hairy, they actually understeer loads more than you would believe  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  With AWD it is necessary to take care of much more of the bend before you even get to it. Entry speeds, turn-in balance and suspension set-ups are much more important. If you cock-up the entry and turn-in, you will be fighting the imperfections through the rest of the bend. Much more like a track car than you think, personally I'd trail brake every time  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  



It is? Nothing beats the good old heal-and-toe. From us in our 2's to Mr Schuey in his F1 Ferrari (again mid-engined rear-wheel drive....does that make it a MR1?) a bit of gas and a bit of brake is perfect. When you have no need for the clutch, or you have an SMT, why not use your left foot? It does take great care as, at first, you will be a bit heavy with it.

One hundred percent  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  


I'm all with practicing as it will give you knowledge and insight into what the car will do. But I don't agree that it will seriously improve your car control. I used to practice and I thought I knew what to do. But my own rule book was thrown into the fire when I went on driving and racing courses. I learnt sooo much more and nearly everything I thought I knew was wrong.
And then there were things like how to make a spin/slide tighter or longer without knowingly altering the steering, acceleration, brake or clutch   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

I agree - Car control, and stopping the car before you get into trouble are two different things, you don't improve control you become pro active. With enough practice you don't need to get into problems.


Not wanting to flame you adair69, but it looks like what you have written applies mainly to the world of rallying. IMHO these techniquies will loose you time on the track and are not reccomended for use on the road (there isn't that much room for powersliding and as for the flick....on a road   s:!: :!: s:!:    s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:!: :!: s:!:  ).[/quote]


I think you got the wrong end of the stick Pete (No arguments with what you say) on a track its safe (within reason) Not many of us go too fast into a corner keep trying to turn put our foot down on the loud peddle and hit another car coming the other way and then the kirb which flips us onto the roof. But we all drive a rear wheel car which WILL put us into a hedge backwards if we don't treat it with respect  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  
Judging by the amount of drivers here and casting you back to the Fiat mid engine X series, the amount of those crashed was horrific.
I thought some practice may be in order, and from a person who put his TVR backwards   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  through a hedge 3 times   s:? :? s:?    s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  
I know its costly and well eerr embarrassing.   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

LFB is used to get a FWD to behave like a RWD, to provoke the back end out  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Peter Laborne]

a person who put his TVR backwards   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  through a hedge 3 times

Ahhhh. A TVR. That explains it   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  A car with a chassis that cannot handle the power!!!

I know of many TVR owners who have ended up backwards through a hedge.

I can not think of one TVR that isn't scary to drive at speed through the twisties!!!

  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

Yeah, but Peter, with all that power, you would love to have a go.........  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Grrrrrr.........  s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:    s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[Anonymous]

AAhh TVR.... Looks Good.....   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  Sounds better.......   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

But......

Shall we say not the most reliable car in the world (yes even worse than the Alfa Spyder)  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

handling even scarier than a 911 ala 1990's  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

As for the paint cost ow Ow OW!!!  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:shock: :shock: s:shock:    s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[filcee]

Another reason for getting SMT....

a) you can do LFB
b) H&T is harder, so the SMT does it for you.

Next car perhaps  s:) s:)

You know makes sense ....

You know you want one ....

Go on, go on, go on, go on ...

  s:D s:D

[Anonymous]

You know makes sense ....

You know you want one ....

Go on, go on, go on, go on ...

  s:D s:D

  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Gimme a chance, haven't had the current one for 6months yet!  s:) s:)