So I Wrote Off My Car...

[Anonymous]

And now I find myself on this website...   s:P s:P  

I've been looking at Celica 190s, MR2 Mk3s and Mitsu FTO's

I heard MR2 Mk3s were slow so kinda ignored the idea.
Celica 190s look good but pre facelift interior looks a bit tacky...
FTO's i think fastest out of all? (anyone know for sure?)
+ FTOs feel like a mini RX7 cockpit style seat position!!!  s8) s8)

then i realised MR-S have some amazing gearbox???

so really its FTO vs MR-S ?
what would be quicker?

I like the idea of convertible for summer + RWD (would ideally want a hardtop too) MR-S has good looks.
But the FTO looks amazing out the box, has the V6 sound, 4 seats and 200bhp... lol

Enlighten me please.
Nick  s:D s:D

(R.I.P. Honda Civic)

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I am qualified to answer this question (I knew one day I would)

I have had 3 FTO's GR ( 4 SPEED TIP) GPX (MANUAL) GPvR (5 SPEED TIP) and now have a 54 plate MR2

The FTO is a lovely car, has the looks, has the speed, has boot space !! and quite economical. the 4 seats is only ok if you have passengers with small legs, not sure on your finances, but they are getting a bit long in the tooth now unless you go for a 1997 facelift model, newest you are gonna get is a 2000 but be prepeared to pay over 8k

Insurance is bad group 20 !! mainly due to the parts being a nightmare to get, and the fact that it was never a uk car. scrap yards are fine, but things like alternators, brake disks, and most other parts you dont buy second hand cost mega bucks, if you go ahead be careful, things can go bad very quickly, I spend nearly 2k in 6 months of ownership on one of my 3 babies, alternator,cambelt, water pump, then heater matrix (whole dashboard off job)

Its an expensive hobby having an FTO


As for the MR2, only had mine 6 months, if you like driving go carts, like the wind in your hair, and have no luggage, then the MR2 is fine, mechanics wise they seem to be tip top and parts are easy to come across. insurance looking at group 13 and a basic 2000 model looking at 5.5-6k, a jap import MR-S looking at 4.5k-5.5k

[kanujunkie]

person you should pm is starzz121

her other half drives an FTO and she has the mr2. If its straight power you want though then get the FTO in the v6 version, but if you want something with playability in the corners then the mr2 is the way to go, plus with a few modifications could have a brilliant cornering car with more than enough power for the straights

[Anonymous]

thanks! well i can get insured on an FTO... already found that out!
just getting a quote for an MR-S now...

how much quicker is an FTO compared to MRS ?
dont they have the same 0-60 in 7secs ?

how can you tell you have a true MRS and not just a kitted up UK MR2?
how can you tell if your MRS has LSD ?

If an MRS is slower... how much cash and what mods would be needed to make it as fast as an FTO?

sorry about all the questions!
Nick   s:D s:D

[Chris_h]

MR-S is the same as thr MR-2 - just a different name.

There are various special editions and more variety of body kits on the Jap cars, but I think only 1 or 2 actual special editions that increase power (and not by much)

The 'trick' gearbox you refer to is the automatic SMT - which is also on UK MR2s.

If its outright speed you require, why not just get an Imprezze and wind up the turbo?

[Anonymous]

It is not worth comparing MR2 VS FTO for BHP

They are not in the same league

MR2 1.8 VVTI              = 138
FTO GS 1.8                  = 160
FTO GR V6 2.0             = 180
FTO GPX V6 MIVEC 2.0 = 200

Biggest issue for me when I had my FTO's was comfort, they are very harsh.

Classic quote from Max Power for FTO'S
 "Should be up with Porsches, struggles to beat Mondeo's"

[Liz]

It is not worth comparing MR2 VS FTO for BHP

They are not in the same league

MR2 1.8 VVTI              = 138
FTO GS 1.8                  = 160
FTO GR V6 2.0             = 180
FTO GPX V6 MIVEC 2.0 = 200

Biggest issue for me when I had my FTO's was comfort, they are very harsh.

Classic quote from Max Power for FTO'S
 "Should be up with Porsches, struggles to beat Mondeo's"

Unless you turbo one of course!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[kanujunkie]

MR2 turbo kits will give approx

TTET 197Bhp
TTET SP240 238Bhp
C2 & Hass will be approx 270Hp

cant remember what the PE kit gives but its something in the middle and the prolex Supercharger is around 240Bhp iirc

either way a lot more than the FTO, all depends what you want though

[Anonymous]

All Mr2's and MrS's (same basic car and engine as above) come with LSD's regardless of year.

[Anonymous]

MR2 = RWD
FTO = FWD



'Nuff said if you like driving proper cars.  s8) s8)   s;) s;)



I do love the way the FTO looks I must admit, and if it were RWD it would be a no-brainer if I'm honest. Either car is fun, it just depends what price you put on having a convertible rather than a tin-top.

[spit]

All Mr2's and MrS's (same basic car and engine as above) come with LSD's regardless of year.

  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  

Who told you this??

[scottish_turbo]

a jap import MR-S looking at 4.5k-5.5k

  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  I wouldn't expect much for that money!

[Anonymous]

i thought the MR-S manual gearbox had different gear ratios in 2nd + 3rd ?

different leagues of speed? surely they cant be that far apart? (fto vs mrs)

ive read 0-60s on them both being just around 7secs...?

[rtbiscuit]

i was originally going to buy an fto before i got my mr2. and yes the fto is a lovely car, but you will find that the fto suffers the same as the mr2 with a lack of tourque.

one thing that changed my mind was the maintaing cost for the fto. yes they are not a bad price but running one can be. alot of mitsi dealers won't touch them, and if they do they tend to take your wallet at the same time.

don't get me wrong i love the fto, and think it is gorgeous, but the 2 cars you are comparing are like chalk and cheese, and perform very differently.

the mr2 is much lighter so the fto may have more power but its fornt wheels have to pull all that weight. the 2 is under a ton and rear wheel so acts far more like a sports car. the handling on the 2 is more nimble and far superior for twisty country roads.

neither car will be a straight drag race winner, not with out some serious cash being spent on the engine. and 0-60 times say very little about a car.

what you want to look at is power to weight ratio, and how that car delivers it (puts it on the ground) a ford mustang would out drag a 2 easily, but stick it on the nurembourg ring and the 2 will beat it.

my advice is go and test drive both cars, get a feeling for both and see what you think. thats the only way to make a decision. and at the end of the day you have to drive the car, so it needs to be your choice. you also have to remember we are all a little biased on this forum, same as the FTOOC would be about their car. (go visit their forum as well its very good and should give you more info)

[Anonymous]

yeh thanks! ive been on that board for a while now too!

obviously i knew that they were two totally different cars but they seem to be in the same kind of market for some people as you also said you were choosing between them...

Say im looking to spend £4k - £5k... FTOs i'd be looking at Facelift MIVECs 1997 (-1999 if lucky)
MRS' First example ive seen is a black 1999 with 34k miles for £5,300

so are the gears on MRS manuals the same as UK manuals??

I would test drive both but cant see that happening tbh! Especially with the tight Toyota dealerships around here!

[rtbiscuit]

i believe their are minor variations.

i think that there was a discussion on the forum where we discussed gear you were in when you hit 80. if i am correct in my thinking (correct me if i'm wrong) the jap imports had to change up from 2-3 at 70 ish, where as the uk spec will hit it in second!

i think that the jap spec has a slightly shorter gear ratio to cope with the heavy traffic of japan. where the uk car is slightly longer gears to cope with long motor way drives. (or something like that).

makes sod all difference!

my advice is if you want power, get the mr-s and then turbo it, or chip it.

standard 138 bhp

n/a 160 bhp = £1000- £1500 (dependant on what bits, but taking into account exhaust mods and a unichip)

engine swap 190 bhp £2500 - £3000

turbo anywhere between 200-300 bhp £4000 (after all bits and tweeking)

super charger 240 bhp £4000 (there or around roughly)

[kashy]

i thought the MR-S manual gearbox had different gear ratios in 2nd + 3rd ?

different leagues of speed? surely they cant be that far apart? (fto vs mrs)

ive read 0-60s on them both being just around 7secs...?

As for the ratios, they are different for mr-s and mr2, ive owned both and i felt the mr-s 5 speed was better geared for acceleration, the ratios were shorter and it picked up speed a lot quicker. However when crusing on motorway revs were higher. I was lucky enough to get a mr-s with lsd as it is a option in japan and not all of them have it.

As for the Mr2 i own now its now a 6 speed and all the uk models have lsd. i feel the ratios are not as good for acceleration but the crusing revs are a lower making long journeys better and the 6th gear also helps with a theoretical top speed of 170ish whilst the mr-s hit the limiter at 140mph. i will be turboed shortly so the 6 speed will work to my advantage for turbo as for NA the jap spec gearbox would be better for acceleration.

0-60 time is around the 7s region on the mr2 not too sure about the fto but since the fto is a 6 cylinder it would should have slightly better mid range pull and top end.

what engine did ur civic have? i use to own a ek4 vti-s, great car and did miss vtec when i switched to the mr2 but for handling the mr2 is in a league of its own, the turbo should recoup the difference..

[rtbiscuit]

as for test drives, give a shout out to local owners, or come down to a meet. people are quiet welcome to show off there cars.

i guess most would take you out, and some will let you try them out (can't make any promises) and i'm guessing the same goes for the FTO lot. we've met them and they a nice bunch!

[Anonymous]

engine swap 190... £2500 ? can it be done
what condition engine are we talking about here?
this is the VVTLi 190 ZZT231 engine right?

what about the K20 out of a Civic Type-R ? how much would that cost? lol ive seen a few people with them on the internet...

[rtbiscuit]

i use to own a ek4 vti-s, great car and did miss vtec when i switched to the mr2 ..

i thought the vtec on the hondas and the vvti on the toyotas are almost the same!

[rtbiscuit]

engines swaps can be done rogue in coventry does the 2zz swap, and i do believe he has been putting the mk 2 turbo engine in a roadster as well

price is a rough estimate by the way

[Anonymous]

i use to own a ek4 vti-s, great car and did miss vtec when i switched to the mr2 ..

i thought the vtec on the hondas and the vvti on the toyotas are almost the same!

DOHC VTEC is similar to VVTLi (you get a kick)

VVTi is just like SOHC VTEC

[kashy]

vvtli 190bhp is quite similar to vtec with a lift point at 6k.  That engine is similar style to the DOHC vtec. The Stock vvti engine is also DOHC but not vtec.......

you may remmeber the crxs where they use to come in a 1.6 16v and a 1.6 vt, the vvti engine is similar to the 1.6 16v as both are DOHC and 16v however both lack vtec/lift.

The engine swap with the 190bhp is a good route to take if you want to stay NA. Ive read in places that the swap does match/beat the S2000. The K20 route is possible but means a lot of custom fabrication and will  end up costing around the £5-6k region id imagine. Few guys on spyderchat rekon $12-$15k, LINK HERE.

[Anonymous]

so can anyone clear up / point me in the right direction so i know all the differences between an MR2 and MR-S ? and the different versions of them...?

thanks. nick.

[kanujunkie]

this is the VVTLi 190 ZZT231 engine right?

the 190 engine is the 2ZZ-GE