Are all Toyota dealers this rubbish?

paul russell · December 4, 2003, 10:02

My warranty runs out in a few months so I thought I'd get all the problems with my '2 sorted out in one go. The list included:
1.   When I pull out of my drive first thing in the morning, the steering judders and makes a graunching noise on full lock. This seems to go away after driving for a bit.
2.   I can hear a clonking noise from the front when I go over potholes (I've already had a power steering pipe replaced)
3.   One of the hard top catches doesn't lock.
4.   The glovebox STILL rattles.
5.   The general handling is very skittish and tramlines all over the place. I suggested it might need the tracking checked.

I took the car along yesterday morning to my local Toyota dealer and picked it up last night. Basically, the only thing they'd done was look at the glovebox. They said they couldn't find anything wrong with the steering and couldn't hear any noises. They also said the dodgy handling was because the front tyre pressures were down to 20psi (total bollocks as I always check them regularly – I checked them again this morning and they've pumped them up to 30psi now). When I mentioned about the tracking they told me to go to the local tyre fitters. Oh and they couldn't do the hardtop catch as they needed to order a new part – why didn't they do that after the I'd booked the car in, they had 3 weeks?

Has anyone experienced the same problems as me? And can anyone recommend a good dealer near the south coast – I live about 10 miles from Portsmouth.

Thanks for listening!

Paul

Slacey · December 4, 2003, 10:23

Unfortunately I can't recommend any dealers down South as I don't know any; but I can say all dealers aren't like yours - mine are continually surprising me with their excellent service, even fixing problems like your suspension issue at service time without me complaining about it in the first place! s:D

s:D

GSB · December 4, 2003, 10:27

Take the car back, tell them that the front strut top bearings are in need of immediate replacement, and to check the alignment on all four wheels. Not just tracking, but a proper 4 wheel alignment...

Alignment is critical to this car. and if the suspension compnents are worn out it wont stay in alignment...

Anonymous · December 4, 2003, 10:54

GSB - I assume i have a similar suspension problem as Paul. My car has gone to Toyota today to be checked out.
When i pull away on full or nearly full stearing lock, i get a creaking noise also. This only occurs after the car has been sitting around for a few hours.
It will be interesting to see if Toyota come up with a solution.

Slacey · December 4, 2003, 10:59

The solution is to change the strut mounts - this is an official Toyota fix, I can't understand why dealers are messing people about s:? :? s:?

Tem · December 4, 2003, 11:03

Quote from: "Slacey"The solution is to change the strut mounts

I have a better solution - The Sportivo s8)

s8)

paul russell · December 4, 2003, 11:33

I've just phoned my dealer and told them that the steering juddering on full lock appears to be a common problem, to which the solution may be the strut mounts. They said that according to the Toyota service website there is no known fault or remedy. I asked them if they could order some parts in advance of my car going back but they refused and said they would have to witness the problem themselves before getting the parts. Which is going to mean booking it in again. It's just as well that I allowed a few months before the warranty expired to get this looked at.
Paddleman, can you let me know what your dealer says about yours?

With regard to tyre pressures, what is best for the front? I always set mine to 26psi but the dealer reckoned they were too low as the tyres had worn on both sides

Slacey · December 4, 2003, 11:36

I shouldn't bother with these monkeys at all and go to ANY other dealer.
As I said previously, there IS an official service bulletin in reference to the suspension; the reason my dealer did my car was that the technician had received the bulletin.
As for the tyres, the manual states 28psi, I had no trouble with my stock wheels at that, and I run my front 17's at 28 too.

Comer · December 4, 2003, 12:10

Hmmm I've got this creaking too and they changed the power steering pipes. It's still there and I haven't complained again yet.

But now I've changed my springs from stock to Eibach I wonder if they will try and blame it on that. Time to contact my dealer......

GSB · December 4, 2003, 12:15

Either get out of dodge before they bugger your car up for you, or, Talk to the service engineer, tell him you have spoken with 3 seperate owners from across tth country who all afree the following:

It IS a known problem, Toyota GB have issued a bullitin about it.

The problem lies in the 2 bearings at the tops of the front struts. the lubrication dries out and the bearings fail.

The bulletin states that the dealership should first try lubricating the bearings and replace if the cutomer complains once again. (Make sure you do...)

If he still fails to assist you in any way, tell him you will name and shame him on the Owners Club forums, and you will take your business elsewhere.

These piss-poor dealerships need to be reigned in, and owners clubs like this are the places to start pulling...

Incidentally, the label in the glovebox says 26psi...

Slacey · December 4, 2003, 12:17

Quote from: "GSB"Incidentally, the label in the glovebox says 26psi...

Am I getting numbers mixed up again? s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Remind me not to quote numbers on here again please s:(

s:(

Anonymous · December 4, 2003, 12:21

Quote from: "Slacey"I shouldn't bother with these monkeys at all and go to ANY other dealer.
As I said previously, there IS an official service bulletin in reference to the suspension; the reason my dealer did my car was that the technician had received the bulletin.

I agree totally.. my dealer has been excellent, although it's in Farnborough, which might be a little inconvenient for you to travel to.
I had my suspension mounts changed without question, and the clonking/creaking has completely gone. I also had all new disc and pads all round due to mild cosmetic corrosion, no questions asked!

As for your glove box rattle.. they did swap the whole lock assembly over for me, but unfortunately the rattle was worse, and I had an enormous seperate key just for that lock! I got them to swap my old one back, and now it's actually rattle free... so I suspect it's just an adjustment issue.

Tim

aaronjb · December 4, 2003, 12:36

Hmm -I just noticed the creaking yesterday too.. I was wondering whether it's because I park half on a garden, and half the road (up a kerb every night)..

Something to add to my list of stuff for when I get round to getting to the dealer I suppose!

Mine tramlines like an absolutely evil thing too, worse than my old 300ZX that had masses and masses of -ve camber - if the top mounts wear, presumably this induces play, which could throw the geometry out?

Aaron

paul russell · December 4, 2003, 12:43

This is getting interesting.......
My dealer has just phoned me and said they have contacted ToyotaGB and have looked on THIS site at this thread with regard to the juddering. They are saying that ToyotaGB know nothing about this but said if the person metioning the bulletin has got the number, they would look into it. Over to you, GSB.

Re the glovebox rattle: the dealer replaced my lock the last time it was in and I did the same and swapped it back as the new one was worse!

Slacey · December 4, 2003, 12:54

Quote from: "paul russell"...and have looked on THIS site at this thread with regard to the juddering.

Well, if they care to look on here again and perform a search, they will find lots of info re. the strut problem, as well as many other recognised warranty problems s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

SteveJ · December 4, 2003, 12:58

Quote from: "Tem"
Quote from: "Slacey"The solution is to change the strut mounts

I have a better solution - The Sportivo s8) s8)

The sportivo re-uses the stock top-mounts, and won't fix the problem s:(

s:(

GSB · December 4, 2003, 13:04

Quote from: "paul russell"This is getting interesting.......
My dealer has just phoned me and said they have contacted ToyotaGB and have looked on THIS site at this thread with regard to the juddering. They are saying that ToyotaGB know nothing about this but said if the person metioning the bulletin has got the number, they would look into it. Over to you, GSB.

Re the glovebox rattle: the dealer replaced my lock the last time it was in and I did the same and swapped it back as the new one was worse!

Rattles are a part of life with these cars, and generally you are far better off sorting little things like these yourself

As for the bulletin number, Sorry, I'm not a Toyota Dealer, I dont know it. But my own dealer sure didnt have any problems finding it when I described the problem to him, so perhaps they missed this one... However they are a Toyota dealer, and regardless of weather they know the number or not, they're now reading the accounts of a whole load of people with the same problem, which is surely one of the best resources of information they are going to get on this subject...

So, a message to your dealership, and the guys in the workshop:

The Mk3 MR2 suffers from a problem, the symptoms of which are tramlining and general bad handling, rattling steering, creaking on full lock, and noises on moving the steering after a prolonged spell of sitting still. This problem will be cured by careful inspections and lubrication of all steering joints, and particular attention to the bearings at the top of the front suspension struts, which suffer form poor lubrication. These bearings carry the wieght of the car, and with no oiling they entitled to grumble a little. Bear in mind the golden rule that if you can hear a bearing making a nasty noise, you are long way past the point where it became unservicable. The replacement of these bearings should ideally be followed by a 4 wheel alignment check, The suspension on these cars is very-very sensitive to disturbances and minor misalignment,so it pays to make it right first time...

carry out the above work and 99 times out of 100 you'll ahve cured the problem and your customer will write a glowing report about you here, for 350 other fanatic MR2 owners to read. Thats free advertising for you...

Anonymous · December 4, 2003, 13:21

Quote from: "paul russell"This is getting interesting.......
My dealer has just phoned me and said they have contacted ToyotaGB and have looked on THIS site at this thread with regard to the juddering. They are saying that ToyotaGB know nothing about this but said if the person metioning the bulletin has got the number, they would look into it. Over to you, GSB.

You are having a laugh right?

I know this place has plenty of members who know shed-loads about their cars... but really, this is just taking the michael.

Both Toyota GB and the Dealer should be the people who know the most about the car they designed, built and maintain.

I'd never dream of going to my doctor and telling him what I have wrong with me, and the course of treatment.

To have to come to us to find out what the problem is is laughable, and makes the garage look, not only incompetent, but wholly unprofessional too.

Anonymous · December 4, 2003, 13:23

NAME AND SHAME, NAME AND SHAME! s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

paul russell · December 4, 2003, 13:35

I won't name and shame YET, I'll give them another chance to sort it out. I have to say though, that I'm not at all happy with the situation at the moment.

On the subject of warranty problems, are there any others that I should be looking at before my warranty expires? I've had the discs and alloys done.

Tem · December 4, 2003, 13:43

Quote from: "SteveJ"The sportivo re-uses the stock top-mounts, and won't fix the problem s:( s:(

I'm sure it fixed it from mine...could be that I did something I shouldn't have (like NOT use a torque wrench at all), but the problem went away with the install...

Edit: I guess I greased it after cleaning it, so it was probably that...

GSB · December 4, 2003, 14:01

Quote from: "phil4"You are having a laugh right?

I know this place has plenty of members who know shed-loads about their cars... but really, this is just taking the michael.

Both Toyota GB and the Dealer should be the people who know the most about the car they designed, built and maintain.

I'd never dream of going to my doctor and telling him what I have wrong with me, and the course of treatment.

To have to come to us to find out what the problem is is laughable, and makes the garage look, not only incompetent, but wholly unprofessional too.

The first thing you do when you go to the doctor is tell him whats wrong with you, thats how he diagnoses the problem. If you've done a bit of research and know a bit more about what it might be, thats good too. It shows your not some malingerer out for the hell of it, but you are taking the situation seriously, and thus stops him/her fobbing you off with some tired one liner because he thinks you're a time wasting hypochondriac, or because he simply cant be bothered...

The same goes for the Toyota dealerships. The guys who work on your car had bugger all to do with the design and build of the MR2, they just have to fix it when it goes wrong. And as the MR2 is generally very reliable and there's not many of them around, they dont get to see them very often. Hence they dont know about all the little quirks, bugs and fixes that we do, and thats why the first thing you do when you pick your car up from a service is drop the front tyre pressures down to 26psi again...

Unfortunatley these guys spend their every working hour up to thier armpits in bit's of Corolla, so it stands to reason that a reader of these forums is going to know a hell of a lot more about the quirks of the MR2 than the guys working on it at the dealership. The Manuals are very good, but they dont tell you what an evil bastard the '2 is when the suspension alignment goes out, or how annoying the glovebox rattle is...

Personally, I believe that any dealer who comes here for info should be commended, applauded, and given a pat on the back. Its a fantastic resource for owners, maintainers, and total anoraks alike, and lets face it, the only other people he could ask are the guys who designed it, but they all speak Japanese...

Anonymous · December 4, 2003, 14:48

SLIGHTLY off topic, but I had my suspension struts changd under warranty after the same problems as reported in this thread. They were replaced no more than 8 months ago, but the sound has come back and I am getting the clicking and grauncing noises again, as mentioned here and as before the replacement. Do you think that Mr T would be willing to replace them again as they are not 1 year old yet, even though my car is now actually out of warranty? If the problem was known and yet the replacement parts have not fixed the problem long term, then it is a part, not a whole car problem and I think that they have a duty to replace them again, IMO. Does anyone disagree with this? Interested to know what the concensus of opinion is before I contact MrT again and would like some ammo to fight my case........

Help please guys! s:D

s:D

Anonymous · December 4, 2003, 14:54

Did they replace them, or did they just lubricate them?

GSB · December 4, 2003, 14:56

Its not the struts themselves that are the problem, but the supporting bearing at the top of them...