Essen Motorshow Report - discussion

[markiii]

I agree with Sean, well worth the wait.

Q1:  How do i get my name put down for a free development turbo kit!   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Q2:  Parts; They say they are willing to sell direct... does that mean that we could get something like the TTE springs or TTE Exhaust for a good discount instead of going to the dealer? If so, do you have any plans to have an arrangement in place to move this forward in the near future?

Thanks

Kris

ref TTE parts, we will in due course be assembling a list of what people would like to order from TTE. We will then see what prices they come up with.

I would stress this will have to be a very tightly run GB as we will not be messing them about. This was offered as a personal favour by Freidel Beyer to the club and he will; more than likely be going well out of his way to make it happen.

[markiii]

Excellent report and good to see acknowledgement of the club by TTE.

Besides the TTE turbo I'd also be interested in the feasibility of fitting the engine bay cooling fan (in the photo on the report) to a car that has a not so cold air intake like the Apexi.

It was discussed that this will be offered as a complete carbon fibre replacement panel with teh fan attached. To stop people needing to butcher their drip trays.

It may be made available seperatly but no decision has been reached yet.

As far as the rest of the kit goes I'm sure they would supply spares to existing owners but the kit will not be generally available piecemeal.

[markiii]

Anyways - thanks to all you guys that headed out to ESSEN and made this happen.

Your welcome, though I think I speak for all of us when saying it wasn't exactly a sacrifice and we all thoroughly enjoyed it.

[aaronjb]

Gerald actually stated that done properly (Ithink we can assume they have) and air to air is acyually better than an air to water.

I had to read that a few times to figure out which bit you were referring to  s:) s:)  (Maybe I'm going braindead..)

When I was talking about the oil cooling vs. water cooling, I meant turbo bearings, rather than intake charge..

From what you just said.. Maybe I misinterpreted the post I was replying to, and the 'water radiator' that was mentioned was meaning a chargecooler (air/water cooler, rather than air/air)..

In which case.. I agree with you Mark  s;) s;)  My choice would almost always be for air/air, unless there were specific reasons - for example, if mounting an air/air intercooler in reasonable airflow meant having a stupidly long intake tract, then I'd personally go for a locally mounted air/water chargecooler, keep the intake tract as short as possible, and extract the heat via a remote radiator.. But, given the design of the '2's engine bay, I'm pretty sure you're right - an air/air intercooler can be positioned nicely in airflow, with a reasonably short intake tract..

Anyway.. I agree..  s:) s:)  I just thought the OP was referring to turbo & engine cooling, not intake charge.. Ahem..   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  


Oh and as I haven't already said it (I don't think.. like I say, losing my marbles  s:D s:D ) - thanks to all those who went out there and spent time taking pictures, persuading TTE to look at group buys via the MR2ROC, and writing the report  s:) s:)


Aaron

[Tem]

When I had my unichip fitted - the tuners said I was running rich

Mine runs rich only with full throttle and lean with partial throttle...and being 100% stock, I'd assume they all are the same.
(not really TTE related, so I'll stop here  s8) s8) )

[Anonymous]

heh, damn I am happy about that TTE turbo  s;-) ;-) s;-)

[mph]

I'll see if I can answer all the questions...

Q1: How do i get my name put down for a free development turbo kit!

Q2: Parts; They say they are willing to sell direct... does that mean that we could get something like the TTE springs or TTE Exhaust for a good discount instead of going to the dealer? If so, do you have any plans to have an arrangement in place to move this forward in the near future?

Q1 - along with everyone else. Still, you've got a few months to save the required monies.

Q2 - discounts will only be through club-organised GBs. This effectively means they have to deal with less people and so reduces their administration costs.

re: emissions Personally, if it doesn't come with a Euro-3-approval, I'm not interested.

re: power Are those flywheel-hp or wheel-hp..?

Will they sell the kit as a kit only, or can one purcahse without some bits he thinks are of no use.

It *will* have Euro-3 approval, they just haven't submitted the kit for testing yet.

Quoted power is at the flywheel. Please note that 180 and 200 values are possibilities and not by any means definite.

Nothing was explicitly mentioned, but I wouldn't expect individual parts for sale - at least easily. TTE have to cater for accident damage replacement parts so there has to be a means of replacing components, but I wouldn't know of the procedure in those cases.

Besides the TTE turbo I'd also be interested in the feasibility of fitting the engine bay cooling fan (in the photo on the report) to a car that has a not so cold air intake like the Apexi.

So why not make one yourself?

I hope the we can keep the TTE dual exhaust with this kit.

Yes you can. The kit must be able to work with a purely stock car and has been tested as such, but they've also tested with the TTE exhaust on.

what we need now are the definates (price, power, lead time etc) - shame that they weren't forthcoming.

It's a bit difficult to give definites until the kit is finalized!

...wonder if it [uprated clutch] would pose any problems for the SMT, as I understand it the uprated clutches available do make the 2 grumble a bit

As for the Turbo, one thing surprises me (unless I missed it) what about the fuel pump.

Personally, I have an original SMT with uprated clutch, pressure plate and lightened flywheel - I don't think the SMT has any problems with it at all.

I forgot to ask about the fuel pump & regulator and Gerald made no mention of it, so I have no definitive answer. I will ask Gerald next time I talk with him.

re: air scoop This does just force air into the engine bay and is not part of the air intake system for fuelling?

Just out of interest, what would the effect be if a whole boat load of water was hoisted into the engine bay by this scoop, if, for example, there was no way to avoid a really deep puddle?

This is purely there to direct air through the intercooler and up through the engine bay. The engine air intake has not be relocated.

Given I doubt you'd be going through a 'puddle' of sufficient depth to reach the scoop at any speed, I can't see it as an issue.

... I woul like very mutch that someone with more knowledge then me could verify those statments, in order to decide what turbo is the best

I would rather not comment directly on the quotes given; however I would consider that you can't compare a released kit with one that is still in development. The TTE kit will have a full three year warrantee.

as someone who's been through the turbo process yourself, can I ask what are your opinions/thoughts on it?

As a simple question why don't you - I happily avoided any such subjective comments in the report.  I can't comment directly on build quality since this was a prototype, however everything was impeccable - if that's how they knock together a prototype, I imagine full production level quality will be second-to-none. The approval process with TMC has meant every single design detail has been questioned over and over. While ultimately compromises may have to be made to keep costs sensible, if would imagine every single design possibility has been considered. The only negative that could be considered with the prototype that was on display, was the length of the turbo to throttle body pipe. Still, I've seen much worse, and the design compromise to have the best possible intercooler position over a slight reduction in throttle response seems reasonable.


If I've missed a question or you feel I've not answered something very well, PM me and I'll have another go.

[Anonymous]

Excellent writeup and great news for the MR2.

One slightly off-topic question, anything for the Celica?

[Anonymous]

Good work...I hope the tte guys to be as meticulous as you!  s8) s8) ... and I hope very mutch, Michael prove wrong on the tte apreciationt of the tte turbo, ( he says that, as tte turbo is so baddly done, it never is going to be approved by Toyota), cause as you say it´s completly diferent a waranty given by Lampka, from one given by TTE , and aproved by Toyota, and if in the end,  it´s approved by Toyota, we can be shure that the turbo is well done.  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

An un-answerable question but worth throwing in the pot for debate.

If Toyota approve this turbo, will the 2005 spec MR2 be a standard/optional turbo version like they did with the Mk2  s:?: :?: s:?:  

Now back on thread.........

I like the sound of the TTE Turbo but will hold my excitement back until;

a) It is approved

b) Price for turbo & fitting is announced

c) I get an insurance quote  s:!: :!: s:!:  


Apart from that, good work guys & a superb write-up as we have come to expect from Martin.      s:D s:D

[markiii]

unlikely to come as a standard car.

However as it (hopefully) will carry a TMC approval and a TMC part number, you should be able t order it all as one order from your dealer.

So for the purposes of insurance it should be classed as factory fit.

[Anonymous]

Might even be better as I am with Toyota insurance too     s:D s:D  

Give me a cheap quote & i'll buy your turbo  s:!: :!: s:!:

[Chris]

Gerald is interested in making a piggyback SMT controller to improve response times. Unfortunately Friedel also pointed out that Gerald's schedule was fully filled for the next few months and no official decision to research the area had been made yet.

Clear that man's schedule and get them working on it!!  The smt is great on downshifts, if only it could be as fast/good on the upshifts...
Hopefully TTE can achieve what few others have done with sequential boxes...   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

The suspension setup would only be of interest to racers/trackday goers imo, so i would expect little interest from mr/mrs average.  However, if the r+d has already been done, then I don't see the point in holding it back!  Gives the sportivo a competitor   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Like Comer, I'm interested in the fan for the apexi/ppe filter.
Finally, cheers chaps for eduring the hardships of a long road trip and drooling at serious mota's!!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s8) s8)

[Slacey]

Gives the sportivo a competitor   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

The Sportivo has now been discontinued, so this would fill the gap nicely....

Like Comer, I'm interested in the fan for the apexi/ppe filter.

Me to, hint hint   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Tem]

The Sportivo has now been discontinued, so this would fill the gap nicely....

I believe it has only been discontinued in US marketing...

I know for a fact that it was available in Japan about two weeks ago. And it still seems to be listed on TRD Japans website.

[Anonymous]

The suspension setup would only be of interest to racers/trackday goers imo, so i would expect little interest from mr/mrs average.  However, if the r+d has already been done, then I don't see the point in holding it back!  Gives the sportivo a competitor   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  


   I do not agree. I'm not a racer, but I love to  have fun driving the mr2 (2003 version), and in my opinion the car is great in twisting back roads (done in 2ª,3ªgear), but on faster roads (4º, 5ºgear) the suspension get to its limits easily, and in the highway (190/200Kh),the car is less stable and precise than  my everyday car (ford focus).  
     I think the suspension can be mutch improved , not only for racing, but for any guy that loves driving fast.
     I'm looking forward a new kit for the suspension by tte, one that  improves handling without degrading  too mutch confort.

[mph]

The suspension setup would only be of interest to racers/trackday goers imo, so i would expect little interest from mr/mrs average. ...

I do not agree. I'm not a racer, but I love to have fun driving the mr2 (2003 version), and in my opinion the car is great in twisting back roads (done in 2ª,3ªgear), but on faster roads (4º, 5ºgear) the suspension get to its limits easily, and in the highway (190/200Kh),the car is less stable and precise than my everyday car (ford focus).
I think the suspension can be mutch improved , not only for racing, but for any guy that loves driving fast.
I'm looking forward a new kit for the suspension by tte, one that improves handling without degrading too mutch confort.

I agree with both of you. I think the issue is more likely down to cost. Does the average person pay ~£300 for some lowering springs that do half a job or £1200 for a fully adjustable suspension setup? The Sportivo is 'essential' (  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ) for the old models, whereas the '03 already has higher rated dampers, making replacement less clear cut, certainly when uprated springs are available.

[Tem]

Does the average person pay ~£300 for some lowering springs that do half a job or £1200 for a fully adjustable suspension setup?

And also, does the average person have any interest to adjust the suspension at all...or would they just go for some fixed kit like Sportivo.

Btw, if you're comparing prices, remember that Sportivo comes with sway bars and some other stiffer bits for 875 euros (+shipping+possible taxes), while TTE sway bars are about 400 euros alone...

JMHO, but I think Sportivo is the best for Average Joe  s8) s8)
(that's why I got it  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  )

[Comer]

Just a quick question whilst suspension is being mentioned.  I unfortunately didn't go down the Sportivo route but have got the Eibach springs which I'm happy with.  But I'm wondering whether adding TTE sway bars would improve the cornering even more?

[mph]

Yep, lots!

The English terminology "anti-roll bars" probably gives a better clue. Interestingly, I hear the Japs often have softer springs and harder anti-roll bars than how Europeans prefer their suspension setups.

[Comer]

Excellent.  I was a bit worried that having the springs and adding the anti roll bars whilst retaining the stock shocks would be a no no.  

If it is ok to upgrade step by step then I know what I'll be looking for in any future TTE group buy   s:D s:D

[markiii]

shouldn't be a problem at al.

The TTE ones are arguably better than the TRD as they have 3 settings you can choose from.

[Anonymous]

I agree with both of you. I think the issue is more likely down to cost. Does the average person pay ~£300 for some lowering springs that do half a job or £1200 for a fully adjustable suspension setup? The Sportivo is 'essential' (  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  ) for the old models, whereas the '03 already has higher rated dampers, making replacement less clear cut, certainly when uprated springs are available.

heh, how does an average person buy an £19k car?  s;-) ;-) s;-) [/quote]

[juansolo]

Excellent write up.

My only concern is it's suitability for sustained high revs given the sort of abuse it would get on track.  I've known one or two FI conversions of Elises, that are fine on the road, go pop on the track...

What I would be interested in is a very reliable, unstressed slug of torque so I expect the 180 kit would be more suitable to my particular application.

I shall continue to watch the development of this kit with interest.  Though given what I put my car through, I'm not sure I'd be an early adopter as I'd like to see the kit proven first before strapping one to my car.

[Anonymous]

I shall continue to watch the development of this kit with interest.  Though given what I put my car through, I'm not sure I'd be an early adopter as I'd like to see the kit proven first before strapping one to my car.

At least this kit will have been properly tested (by deliberately pushing things to, and beyond, the limit I should imagine, many times). And if it does all go wrong, at least you have a warranty  s:) s:)