Sorted MR2 v VX220 Turbo

hywel · August 20, 2007, 13:30

I've got a big decision coming up - a 2nd hand VX220 turbo or some major work on my MR2 - and I wondered what you lot think.

My Mr2 (J spec) is 7 years old and has done 92k - all by me. I love the car - driving, reliability (just a power steering problem in all that time.), sense of occasion and fun but I also love the VX - the engine is just wonderful and the handling is great, but...

I do around 12k per year and I will loose the reliability, the a/c, and exchange the relative comfort of the MR2 to the bone shaking ride that comes with the Vauxhall.

Do I add braces to everything, exchange the engine, add a turbo (+engine) or switch to the Vauxhall? I can't decide... Any thoughts??

Hywel

Wabbitkilla · August 20, 2007, 13:37

Buy Gas's 2 and swap all the bits into yours s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

aaronjb · August 20, 2007, 13:57

Are you thinking of making the '2 equal the power & handling of the VX?

If you are then I think you're looking at spending something like this:

£800 on bracing
£1500 on suspension, rollbars, droplinks and rose-jointed control arms
£6000 on turbo, electronics, chargecooler, internals etc incl. installation

Then you'll have a car that comes close to the VX for handling, and can more or less match it in terms of power to weight ratio.

If you're a very, very good driver you might be able to then lap on a par with a VX.

Basically - if you want what the VX has to offer, you're by far best off just buying one - don't try and turn the '2 into something it just isn't.

Wabbitkilla · August 20, 2007, 14:04

I'm with Aaron there, the VX is a fine fine machine but it is very uncompromising. If you want one and can afford one and will put up with that uncompromising character then go for it. Personally i'd love one, but i don't think i could live with it without having other transport available.

If you want something that is fun, comfortable, has a few creature comforts and you can use every day then stick with the 2. There are many improvements that can be made to the 2 without making it into something as beastly as the VX (beastly as in rip roaring fantastic handling and acceleration), but you can still pootle around comfortably.

Anonymous · August 20, 2007, 14:11

If you want a VXT then you have to get one: You'll never get the sheer responsiveness that the Elise-platform will give you from the MR2 (although Aaron's setup would be as close as you could get).

I do about 12K miles a year in my VXR (although those are all pleasure miles) and considering that the VXR is a lot harder on the suspension than the stock VXT, I've got no complaints with it being too much for the average road. Hell, I've just done 700 miles in three days on some of the worst roads in the country and I have no aches to show from it. Would it have been more comfortable in the MR2? Oh dear god yes, but then I can't say I ever found myself desperate to swap back.

If it's your only car then it's a very big jump from MR2 to VX given that (as you mention) you lose all creature comforts. Would I do it? Possibly, it depends on how much you enjoy driving. If you love the feel of the road so much that you'll do anything to get as close to it as possible then yes; if however you simply enjoy a decent drive but still want a heater that works and a roof that drops in 5 secs instead of 60 then keep the MR2.

hywel · August 20, 2007, 14:12

Quote from: "aaronjb"Are you thinking of making the '2 equal the power & handling of the VX?

If you are then I think you're looking at spending something like this:

£800 on bracing
£1500 on suspension, rollbars, droplinks and rose-jointed control arms
£6000 on turbo, electronics, chargecooler, internals etc incl. installation

Then you'll have a car that comes close to the VX for handling, and can more or less match it in terms of power to weight ratio.

If you're a very, very good driver you might be able to then lap on a par with a VX.

Basically - if you want what the VX has to offer, you're by far best off just buying one - don't try and turn the '2 into something it just isn't.

True. I don't want to turn the MR2 into a 4.7 second rocket-ship, just soup it up a bit. I also can't help thinking that with all that suspension and bracing upgrades it'll end up being just as jarring to drive as the VX.

I can't really consider the turbo on such an ancient engine so I guess we are talking about a new/different unit too. Our US friends seem to be fond of the 2zz..

Liz · August 20, 2007, 14:14

Why not - Ste has done over 100K on his now and mine was Turbo'd at 68K.

hywel · August 20, 2007, 14:16

Quote from: "Liz"Why not - Ste has done over 100K on his now and mine was Turbo'd at 68K.

What do you think of the turbo, Liz? Is it a big improvement?

Liz · August 20, 2007, 14:25

Oh yes!

Anonymous · August 20, 2007, 14:43

I was faced with a similar decision a while back. Looked at Elise, VXT and 350z.

Elise/VXT - Only tried the Elise, on the thinking that VXT would be similar but faster. Handled fantastic but looking round the interior all my lovely gadgets had disapeared (and the clamber in did'nt impress the missus s:roll: :roll: s:roll: )

350z - All the gadgets back but with the weight that comes with it and really didn't feel the 300 or so ponies from that V6 but I was impressed with the build quality and aggro stance.

After mulling LOTS of options over and doing a LOT of research I (somewhat foolishly) placed an order with Gas for a C2 kit which I had never seen or experienced. And the outcome was.........

The best decision I ever made s:D

s:D s:D

s:D

I couldn't ask for any more power, its push the go pedal and hang on and I still get to keep all my toys in a nice descreet little bundle.

Which ever way you go do the research. There is a massive amount of knowledge on here and on VX220.org on the ups and downs of both options and it will all boil down to what you can live with and justify to yourself everyday. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Good luck mate

Anonymous · August 20, 2007, 21:20

i was going to suggest that you stick with your MR2 since I reckon it has great potential in terms of outright pace, HOWEVER:

QuoteI do around 12k per year and I will loose the reliability, the a/c, and exchange the relative comfort of the MR2 to the bone shaking ride that comes with the Vauxhall.

If you want your MR2 to be quick and modify it properly then you're going to end up with a shit ride regardless, so its all a bit silly really :- it comes down to if you want a soft or raw car... I think a modified MR2 would be both uncomfortable and still dynamically inferior to the bedford thingy.

Wabbitkilla · August 20, 2007, 21:27

Quote from: "fanjules"If you want your MR2 to be quick and modify it properly then you're going to end up with a s**t ride regardless, so its all a bit silly really :- it comes down to if you want a soft or raw car... I think a modified MR2 would be both uncomfortable and still dynamically inferior to the bedford thingy.

Funny, the ride in my car is great and it holds the road very nicely indeed.
Can't speak for your car, but I'm very happy with mine and it's nice and comfy.

Anonymous · August 20, 2007, 21:39

You misunderstand! My car is fine, in fact at the only time I've seen a reasonable gathering of peeps cars off here, mine was the only one on the "high" suspension!

From what I gather, hywel is weighing up the pros and cons of buying a VX220 or modifying his MR2 to the point where it has similar pace? My logical assumption would be that the suspension would have to be stiffened up considering on the '2 (thus degrading the ride quality), regardless of any power mods.

Wabbitkilla · August 20, 2007, 21:43

Ah!

I think if you have the chance to go for a VXT then take it. They're a cracking car and I for one would like the experience - i'm just not certain i could live with it.
The MR2 is totally different and that's what you have to accept, no matter what you do to modify it.

You have to remember what the VX is aimed at, which is very different to what the 2 is aimed at. If i could afford it and had the garage space i would have both s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

spit · August 20, 2007, 21:51

Parking the performance side for a moment, I'd suggest that if you intend to keep your '2 and you have some money to throw at it you'll love the result. Its a fair compromise for a daily use car.

If you don't intend to keep it long after modding, then you may as well part with it now as the mods will do diddly in monetary terms for the trade-in value. In that respect, the VX would make more sense.

As for handling, the VX wins ... but the '2 can get a lot lot better and still trounce it in the practicality and comfort stakes. Fanjules' description of soft vs. raw is a little extreme. With the right mods its more like serious vs. raw.

And on your average roads and a daily drive, either is plenty of fun. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Given the choice, if I didn't do such a high mileage and was spritely enough to get in and out of a VX without needing traction afterwards, I'd love one. If you can live with it, go for it.

Anonymous · August 20, 2007, 22:36

My brother in law has a VX. I've been in it but not driven it. It seems very basic compared to my 2 but apart from a lack of practicality (frost on the inside of the windows during winter !) it leaves my 2 standing in all other respects obviously. Its not cosy at all, just looking at it stood still makes you feel like it wants to hurt you. But hes come from big sports bikes which lets face it you can't get more impractical so he thinks hes spoilt with the luxury of it all. It depends what your used to I guess. I'd have one but my backsides too big.

aaronjb · August 20, 2007, 22:48

Quote from: "dgray"I'd have one but my backsides too big.

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: Same reason I can't buy one - somewhere around here there's a photo of me in the passenger seat of Dan's.. it's quite comical s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

freak_in_cage · August 20, 2007, 22:54

VX220 all the way for me

only had the 2 about 4 months but think i will be going down the 220T in a year or so if i can afford it

you woul loose far more £ on the mr2 option

mr2 would have comforts etc etc, but from what i understand of the ellise/vx their design/setup is just so superiour you still wont beat it

spit · August 20, 2007, 23:04

Quote from: "aaronjb"somewhere around here there's a photo of me in the passenger seat of Dan's.. it's quite comical s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

The Search button is your friend ... sometimes s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

aaronjb · August 20, 2007, 23:07

I knew someone would go and find it.. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Now.. back on topic s:P

s:P

markiii · August 21, 2007, 08:38

Quote from: "fanjules"You misunderstand! My car is fine, in fact at the only time I've seen a reasonable gathering of peeps cars off here, mine was the only one on the "high" suspension!

From what I gather, hywel is weighing up the pros and cons of buying a VX220 or modifying his MR2 to the point where it has similar pace? My logical assumption would be that the suspension would have to be stiffened up considering on the '2 (thus degrading the ride quality), regardless of any power mods.

not at all, just depends if you know what you're doing when modiying it :-) :-) :-)

Anonymous · August 21, 2007, 09:20

I go with Ekona on this. Don't bother spending the silly amounts of money on the 2 and go with what you want. I have recently come from an Elise BACK to my old MR2 and its like chalk and cheese. My Elise was an S1, so in some respects, even MORE of a culture shock than a VXT would be and I can say if it wasn't for my circumstances, the Elise would not have gone. YES, its bloody noisy, NO you can hear the stereo anywhere above 60mph, YES its a hard ride compared to the 2, but then we are comparing something like a single seat racer compared to a NASCAR in some respects.......they are both extremely good at what they do, but in corners, the Elise/VX has it every time.

I could live without the noise proofing, I could live with the harder (even though its totally liveable) ride, I could live with the practicality (which, to be fair, was better than the 2 in some ways, especially an easily accessible boot, which was suprisingly handy) and the performance was in a different league.

I was gutted to see it go and getting the MR2 back, although no chore, has made me realise what a special car the Elise/VX is. If you can, even if you don't have it for very long, do it, get it out of your system otherwise you will regret it down the line when you say you COULD have had one.........you can always come back to a 2 laters...........

Anonymous · August 21, 2007, 11:03

IMHO to compare a 2 to a VXT / ELise is like comparing a fry-up in a greasy spoon to a smoked salmon bagel! I also went from a 2 to an Elise and I loved both cars, for different reasons.

In the Elise you feel like you're sitting in a go-cart. In a 2 you feel like you're sitting in a "proper car", you soon forget that on the exterior it's a sporty little number as it's so lovely & comfy inside. Well I did anyway.

I soon got used to the ride on the Elise and the boot was a definate advantage. Forget practicality in both cars, if really you wanted something practical you'd be looking at a Volvo or something s:wink: :wink: s:wink: And you soon get used to clambering in and out and aving to adjust the seat each time. Trick for girlies in skirts is to carry a large handbag to use as a shield s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

I got my Elise because it was something I'd wanted for a while, the plan was to keep it for a year to get it out of my system. I've now had it for about 20 months which says it all really s8)

s8) Recent events aside s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

My advice? - if you want something that feels like a proper car inside then go for a 2 and tinker around with it. You'll be hard pushed to get it handling like a VXT / Elise but you can get something that's not too far off - Aaron's baby is proof of that. I've driven it and trusted it from the very first corner. If you want something that's just full of point & squirt, & you can live with the sparseness, go for the VXT & get it out of your system s8)

s8)

hywel · August 22, 2007, 10:12

I'm blessed with low standards.

To me a £2.99 Merlot tastes as good as a Chateau Rothschild '89, a £150 sound system is just as good as a top of the range Blauplunkt, but I'm different with cars. I don't like being followed around by superfluous seats and I hate rolling round corners in some flabby saloon - although I get used to cars pretty quickly, that sense that I would rather be driving something else is always there. (I write test drives for my wife's magazine and I'm usually very happy to be back in the 2 at the end of each drive, Lotus Europa aside.)

I have a feeling that, as John Woodward says, I would always regret not owning an Elise or VX, so after everyone's fine comments I have decided to move on. Not 'move up', you'll notice, I'm sure that on winter mornings with a misted-up windscreen and rain dripping quietly on my lap I'll think back to the days when I drove the lovely 2.

Anonymous · August 22, 2007, 10:18

Quote from: "hywel"I'm blessed with low standards.

To me a £2.99 Merlot tastes as good as a Chateau Rothschild '89, a £150 sound system is just as good as a top of the range Blauplunkt, but I'm different with cars. I don't like being followed around by superfluous seats and I hate rolling round corners in some flabby saloon - although I get used to cars pretty quickly, that sense that I would rather be driving something else is always there. (I write test drives for my wife's magazine and I'm usually very happy to be back in the 2 at the end of each drive, Lotus Europa aside.)

I have a feeling that, as John Woodward says, I would always regret not owning an Elise or VX, so after everyone's fine comments I have decided to move on. Not 'move up', you'll notice, I'm sure that on winter mornings with a misted-up windscreen and rain dripping quietly on my lap I'll think back to the days when I drove the lovely 2.

You won't regret it. You will curse it, shout at it, you will get annoyed with its lack of pretty much everything, but you won't have had that joy of driving the knickers off it just that 7-8 times in the summer, roof off, sun sinking and hooning the thing around with abandon........its THOSE times that make owning an Elise totally worth it. Enjoy......