Lotus Elise Series 1 & MR2

StuM · May 13, 2008, 17:07

Hi All,

I went to see a friend at the weekend - to help him with the total rewiring of his 2.0 16V Vauxhall engined 1972 Mini! He was keen to see my 2, as he'd never been in one before, and as his other car is a Series One Lotus Elise, it was a great chance to drive them back to back.

Getting into the Elise (a challenge in itself) was a shock after the 2 - you climb over the wide sill and sit down in hard seats that themselves are only a couple of inches off the floorpan. Your legs go straight out in front of you. The Elise feels very raw indeed - no carpets, lots of exposed bodywork. The controls are heavy and industrial - nothing power assisted here!

This particular Elise was running a 1.8 Rover engine - no variable valve timing or anything fancy - and producing about 120bhp. It has an aftermarket exhaust that sounds great - my biggest complaint about my 2 is the muted note from the standard exhaust.

I was very surprised by the performance - the Lotus pulls from low down and accelerates very hard. The steering feel is fantastic and the handling is literally like a go kart. The suspension is very hard and compared to the 2, it crashes over the smallest of bumps in the road. All in all, it was a much more 'involving' experience than my 2 - the smells, the noise, the vibration all conspire to produce a fabulous experience. Gearchange on the Elise is precise, but much more of a clunky affair than the 2.

I couldn't live with it though. Despite having a usuable boot behind the engine, it is massively impractical - it is just too focused for an everyday drive in my opinion. The roof is laughable - to take the hard top off involved plastic clips, 3 allen bolts and clamps. Even then, there is a seperate cover that slips over the roll bar and clamps on!

I was pleased to be back in the 2, but it felt VERY slow after the Elise. Power delivery is totally different, but even so, the extra 250kg the 2 carries make a huge difference. That said, to sit back in comfortable leather seats, be able to hold a conversation with your passenger and get in and out without spraining things makes those kgs worth it... but I now know why so many of you start modding your 2s! s:)

s:)

My mate had a go in the 2 and liked it a lot - he commented on it being a much more refined car, much more comfortable and generally 'nicer' to drive. He was shocked by the lack of luggage though as had always assumed that there was a boot at the back! s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

I was curious about the difference between the two cars (in fact, my first shortlist included an Elise, but I took it off for costing more than I wanted to spend) - I thought I'd let you know my thoughts.

Anyone else driven an Elise? What did you think compared to your 2? Anyone's 2 feel more like an Elise after modding?

Cheers,
Stu

Anonymous · May 13, 2008, 17:26

S1 is one of the greatest driver's cars I've ever been in, and that was only as a passenger! You could still feel the whole car was so eager to do exactly what you wanted, it was beautiful.

The only reasons I wouldn't buy one is the roof (as you mentioned), the thought of HGF, and... No, that's it. Chuck a K20A in and I'm sold.

StuM · May 13, 2008, 17:40

Quote from: "Ekona"...the thought of HGF...

What's that?

Cheers,
Stu

Anonymous · May 13, 2008, 17:41

Sorry, too much time spent on Lotus boards s:oops: :oops: s:oops: Head Gasket Failure, the bugbear of the K-series. Not as prevalent as you would imagine, but a lot more common than our pre-cat failure.

Paulpickerill · May 13, 2008, 20:46

We tried an Elise (and a Morgan!) before getting the 2.

I thought the Elise was faster than it felt, the handling was superb on greasy Devon A-roads. If anything it was TOO planted.
By the time you were having as much fun in the Elise as you can in the 2, you're going fast enough for it to go Very Bad if things went awry.

I thought it was more of a track car than a road car. We wanted a bit more comfort , things like a stereo, a passenger seat that moves, air con, and a roof that keeps you dry.

Plus my wife has a torn shoulder muscle so couldn't park it without PAS.

As for the Morgan, dunno how they stay in business.

Paul

StuM · May 13, 2008, 21:54

Quote from: "Paulpickerill"By the time you were having as much fun in the Elise as you can in the 2, you're going fast enough for it to go Very Bad if things went awry.

I heard that from my mate too - nothing progressive when they break away - it is just traction, traction, traction, hedge...

Fantastic car though.

Stu

Anonymous · May 13, 2008, 21:57

I haven't driven one myself, however I have spoken to owners and people who have. The consensus seems to be that they are the epitomy of british motorsports, but are not one for all drivers.

They have never been one for creature comforts - very simple inside, minimalist to cut down on weight and offer the driver a very solid drive.

Apparently you need to be about 4ft tall to actually comfortably exit/enter the car and the softtop is a joke.

I'm not a fan of the Elise, but I really like the Europa and at a push, i'd take the Exige S too, in an unbiased non-but-if-I-could-afford-it way.

With my dad being a crash accident investigator for the police, he unfortunately had to deal with a few Lotus crashes. Basically with it being Fibreglass, it disintegrates in a crash, and doesn't actually absorb a la crumple zones. Only in low speed collisions are the cabin blocks retained and the persons inside left relatively intact.

Anonymous · May 13, 2008, 22:42

The fibreglass does indeed disintegrate, but it's supposed to: It's the ally tub that has all the rigidity, and is an incredibly safe place to be. I'd rather be in an Elise than an MR2 if in an accident, put it that way.

ChrisGB · May 13, 2008, 22:53

I would happily live with an Elise, but not one with the K series engine in. They also cost more to run. Suspension needs a rebuild more often than in the MR2 and the inside is spartan.

Driving wise, I don't think there is anything like it at similar money. Light, accurate and communicative. The MR2 is all of those things compared to your average saloon. My reckoning is the Elise is the same leap ahead of the MR2 in driving dynamics.

Modding the MR2 will get you a little way closer. Bracing and suspension upgrades have made my car more direct and communicative, but less comfortable. An Elise it is not, but it is so much better than it was in standard form and something special compared to all the usual stuff out there.

Chris

Innocent · May 13, 2008, 23:28

No experience with the S1 but i have driven an S2 111R on the road and track, and that is a phenomenal car. The precision and the way you feel completely in tune with the cars movements as if you're some kind of half car half human sci-fi creation is amazing. And the S2 has a lot more storage space than the 2!!

The main reason i got the 2 over an S1 was the cost (and HGF risk, little did i know about japanese piston rings). I'm pleased now that i went with the 2, as it is an everyday car and i would have got quickly pist with the lotus having to drive it all winter, defrosting the inside of the screen and mopping up after the leaky soft top, if you can get it on before the summer starts again that is!

The 2 is equally at home on a motorway, a bumby country lane or the track, which you cant say for the liz! That said, when you are pushing the limit, you cannot get a better driving sensation in any other car, its the absolute perfect chassis.

I'm happy with the 2 though. Gives me scope to save up a bit of wonga for something with a V in front of it and it fulfills all the urges i need it too. Plus the S1 and the S2 are both do-able on road or track if you're fired up enough s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: ....

edit - Oh, and i'm 6'7'' and dont have any more trouble with the liz over the 2 thanks to its small wheel. Have seen older guys coming out of them on all fours though!!!

Anonymous · May 14, 2008, 01:10

God damn you Dan...

It was hard enough trying to stave my cravings for a Z4 and Boxster, now you went and made me look at the specs of the Lotus' now, coupled with Jeremy Clarkson's classic review of one. Europa is still made of 'win'.

The Clarkson

muffdan · May 14, 2008, 08:43

I had a similar and some extent still have an issue with whether to replace the 2 with something else or mod it. I chose to mod and am most happy with the car I've ended up with. My 2 is 8 years old which is now my primary reason to start thinking about swapping it, perhaps if its just for an 2007 model.

For me the 2 is an every day car and I have a 40 mile round trip drive to work every day. Comfort is a necessity and I've never found the 2 not to be comfortable. As SP state on their website, the SP240 turbo has the same power to weight ratio as a 997 S and more torque to weight ratio than an RS4, and other turbo kits produce even more power. Ok, so an Elise has a lot more on both counts and handles in a different world, but is it really an every day car? I don't think so.

For me it comes down simply to how practical it has to be, forget the price. If you only want a weekend and track day car, get an Elise. If you want to keep a car you can use every day, spend the money on turbos, bracing and body kits!

Its also a lot more entertaining in other aspects to own a turbo'd 2 rather than an Elise. Other people assume you have a regular 2 and are very suprised when you leave them for dust! BMWs most especially s:)

s:)

Jason

Anonymous · May 14, 2008, 11:33

Quote from: "GroundZero"I haven't driven one myself, however I have spoken to owners and people who have. The consensus seems to be that they are the epitomy of british motorsports, but are not one for all drivers.

They have never been one for creature comforts - very simple inside, minimalist to cut down on weight and offer the driver a very solid drive.

Apparently you need to be about 4ft tall to actually comfortably exit/enter the car and the softtop is a joke.

I'm not a fan of the Elise, but I really like the Europa and at a push, i'd take the Exige S too, in an unbiased non-but-if-I-could-afford-it way.

With my dad being a crash accident investigator for the police, he unfortunately had to deal with a few Lotus crashes. Basically with it being Fibreglass, it disintegrates in a crash, and doesn't actually absorb a la crumple zones. Only in low speed collisions are the cabin blocks retained and the persons inside left relatively intact.

Hiya

I have owned both (and am back with the MR2 again) and I can say, being involved with the Elise community for so long, I would say that the damage an Elise has in a crash is mainly superficial for the very reasons you have said make it look bad. The car bodywork is fibreglass, yet has NO structural integrity around the chassis at all. The modular chassis that was developed for the Elise is one of the strongest ever produced and is excellent in crash protection. The problem people have had when there HAVE been crashes is that the speeds they are carrying when it happens is that much higher due to the handling of the car and therefore the impact is that much bigger, causing the chassis to incur more damage than a normal car in a normal crash would have. Hence it probably looks better than the car has actually done. They are very very good. I know of a few REALLY big crashes in Elise's and the driver has walked away pretty much unscathed. They are amazingly strong for what they are.....

Anonymous · May 14, 2008, 11:34

Quote from: "Ekona"The fibreglass does indeed disintegrate, but it's supposed to: It's the ally tub that has all the rigidity, and is an incredibly safe place to be. I'd rather be in an Elise than an MR2 if in an accident, put it that way.

Couldn't agree more. The MR2 is basically a flat chassic pan with little in the middle and loads of weight at each end. If that gets shunted from behind or in front, then there is a likelyhood that it can fold. The Elise would never do that. Amazingly strong little machines.

Anonymous · May 14, 2008, 11:43

I ran my S1 for 18 months. May I dispel a few myths....

Firstly, the S1 is more than practical enough to run as an every day car. But its then down to the driver on how much he can put up with. Yes, the S1 roof does leak over time, but you don't get soaked and its nothing a small cloth won't clear up on the occasion it does rain (and when not using it, I always used a nice £50 shower cover to stop it leaking. A well worth accessory). Also, the boot space is MUCH more practical than the 2. Getting in and out, even for 6 footers, is relativley easy, depending on how fit you are yourself. Besides, you are either in it or out of it............you don't do it that often, so does it REALLY matter?

Yep, it is noisy and each one is unique in its foibles, but for sheer entertainment, there is nothing on the road this side of a Caterfield that comes close to be honest. I know the 2 can be modded to within an inch of its life, but for straight out of the box fun, the Elise has all bases covered and wins hands down. Coming back from the Elise and back into my 2 was quite an eye opener. MUCH softer, MUCH less involving, limits MUCH lower and not as fast.

So, you can live with one, but its all down to how much you can live with. The car does a job and only one job. Thats to get your from A to B as quickly, safely as possible with as much fun as possible. It does that amazingly well and I miss mine deeply deeply deeply. But I got rid for the one thing that CAN bite you and thats the cost of running it. Petrol is cheap as its very economical, even when ragging it as the thing is so bloody light. But services, parts and labour? Thats a different matter altogether.....

I only came back to the 2 because of cost. I wish I still had my Elise. I adore my 2, but I LOVED my Elise.................

Anonymous · May 14, 2008, 12:39

I was a passenger in one a couple of years ago. (I'm no expert but i think he said it was the sport? model, not sure). I couldn't believe how difficult it was to get in and out of. You definitely don't need a skirt on!
I must say though, i couldn't believe how quick it was. The roof is far too fiddly for me though and another friend who still has one, is always losing the allen keys that un-do the top etc. They also said that the servicing costs were very high.

Anonymous · May 14, 2008, 13:39

As I said John, I didn't have any experience of the Lotus or crashes with it so I was just going on what I was told s;)

s;)

This thread is bad for the wallet.

I found this site which actually does show the safety in the car. The second story could have really done with an airbag which would have saved him from his head injury. It is an encouraging set of photos and stories for the safety of the lotus.

I must say, that since reading all this about the Lotus, i'm moving away from the TT, Z4, Porsche and more into the Lotus Europa every passing moment.

What's the speakers and stereo like :p ?

StuM · May 14, 2008, 14:09

My mate ran his as his only car for a couple of years - doing 25k miles a year. Servicing is every 6000 miles IIRC, so that works out lots of expensive trips to Lotus! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Anonymous · May 14, 2008, 22:15

Is servicing done direct @ Lotus HQ?

The combined monthly cost for insurance and the car spread over 4yrs only comes to a small insignificant £703 per month s;)

s;)

markiii · May 14, 2008, 22:20

nope they do have dealers you know s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Chris · May 14, 2008, 23:40

Quote from: "muffdan"Its also a lot more entertaining in other aspects to own a turbo'd 2 rather than an Elise. Other people assume you have a regular 2 and are very suprised when you leave them for dust! BMWs most especially s:) s:)

Jason

And french Mini Cooper Ss huh Jase? s:lol: :lol: s:lol: As you'll probably remember from the conversations we had in Corfu, I'm in much the same boat and coming round the the idea of chopping my 03 smt in for a later manual, then just possibly whacking a dirty great snail in the engine bay... s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Never driven an s1 elise, and only pax lapped in an s2, but have driven an exige and oh boy are they fine little motor cars!! if only i could afford one... s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

Anonymous · May 15, 2008, 10:10

Quote from: "GroundZero"Is servicing done direct @ Lotus HQ?

The combined monthly cost for insurance and the car spread over 4yrs only comes to a small insignificant £703 per month s;) s;)

GOD no!!! LOL!!

Look around for specialists. Lotus main dealers are notoriously expensive for what they do and what you get. Find a decent specialist and you will halve your bills straight away!

Anonymous · May 15, 2008, 10:14

Quote from: "GroundZero"As I said John, I didn't have any experience of the Lotus or crashes with it so I was just going on what I was told s;) s;)

This thread is bad for the wallet.

I found this site which actually does show the safety in the car. The second story could have really done with an airbag which would have saved him from his head injury. It is an encouraging set of photos and stories for the safety of the lotus.

I must say, that since reading all this about the Lotus, i'm moving away from the TT, Z4, Porsche and more into the Lotus Europa every passing moment.

What's the speakers and stereo like :p ?

I was invited to drive the Europa when it was launched and I have to say, I was very, very pleasantly suprised. Ok, its nowhere near as raw as the Elise, but then its not meant to be. But it still has a rawness about it that is more connected than the more "refined" sports cars like Porsches and so on. The Z4 will shake the teeth out of your head even more than the Elise and is only marginally more comfortable. The TT is like driving a pillow in comparison to a Europa.

The stereo in an Elise is pants. No idea what the one in the Europa is like though, but would imagine it has to be better. The one I drove had an intergrated Blaupunkt SatNav in it, so guess the stereo won't be too bad. Will need to stick the volume up a bit though to drown out the rest of the noise the car makes!

I would have a Europa at the drop of a hat if the Elise became to hard core though. And I would have a Thorney conversion on it......uprated springs and dampers, nicer exhaust and a remap to give 300+bhp!!! Nice..... s;-) ;-) s;-)

MisterK · May 15, 2008, 10:26

My best mate got an Elise a couple of years ago which I have had a go in. Agree with the comments about road holding etc etc, but couldn't live with it myself. Getting in it was a pain & to get out I had to take off the steering wheel (it clips off in a second) & nearly got a hernia in the process. I didn't like the 5 speed box compared to the 6 speed MR2 - the ratios 1 - 4 were similar, but 5th was like jumping straight to 6th or higher in the MR2. The Elise would be great fun for a track day or some nice A roads through mid Wales, but for general day to day use I'll stick with the 2.

Anonymous · May 15, 2008, 11:02

I really do think that the 3 civilianspec vehicles are affordable to some of us here... you could sell the '2 independently, or part-ex, either way, depending on the original value and the mileage/condition you could be looking at a ballpark £5000-£8000.

That could take the cost of a brand new Exige down to £24k which is affordable if you don't have any dependents... s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

Then if you make plans and save a slab of cash each payday for a few months you could get another £8-9k saved up for that winter-time purchase (when the prices are more flexible since they're a warm weather car).

If you chose to get a 2nd hand car and found a near-new condition one, those 2 lumps of cash you had would nearly buy the car outright, shy of £6-8k.

Out of interest, does anything bother the engine which is exposed to rain and snow through the 'chicken-wire' (as Jeremy Clarkson put it)?