Lotus Elise Series 1 & MR2

[Anonymous]

Apologies about the double post..

John - i've heard reports that the Europa is a bit slippery on corners and lacks the epic grip of the Exige.  Is this true in your experience?

What would you take out of Exige or Europa, what with your experience of driving the Europa?

[muffdan]

Its also a lot more entertaining in other aspects to own a turbo'd 2 rather than an Elise. Other people assume you have a regular 2 and are very suprised when you leave them for dust! BMWs most especially  s:) s:)

Jason

And french Mini Cooper Ss huh Jase?   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:   As you'll probably remember from the conversations we had in Corfu, I'm in much the same boat and coming round the the idea of chopping my 03 smt in for a later manual, then just possibly whacking a dirty great snail in the engine bay...   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

Now now, lets not be racist, I enjoy schooling all Cooper S's regardless of nationality!

Back on topic, please don't underestimate what you can get out of a modified '2. Ok, so you'll never get it to handle as well as an Elise but have you ever considered the '2 to be lacking in this? A turbo will get close to the striaght line speed and certainly have oodles more top end, the '2 is more comfortable, its reliable and cheaper to run and its more practical.

If you can and haven't aready, try and drive a turbo'd '2 and Elise/Europa back to back, see what you think.

Jason

[Anonymous]

Out of interest, does anything bother the engine which is exposed to rain and snow through the 'chicken-wire' (as Jeremy Clarkson put it)?

You mean like the MR2 engine is when you take the drip-tray off for better cooling?  s;) s;)  Nope, not really.

John - i've heard reports that the Europa is a bit slippery on corners and lacks the epic grip of the Exige. Is this true in your experience?

What would you take out of Exige or Europa, what with your experience of driving the Europa?

Not John, but I'll add comment here too  s;) s;)
The Europa (much like the Elise) will not handle as well as the Exige due to the differing wheelbases (Exige is a touch shorter), but is still a fabulous car and will make the MR2 feel like a lardbucket. Given that the Exige S is now around, unless you're desperately in love with the looks of a Europa then that's what I'd have. Nicer interior (all that leather over everything does nothing for me in the Europa), powerful but smooth engine, better handling, can take the roof off... No contest.

Back on topic, please don't underestimate what you can get out of a modified '2. Ok, so you'll never get it to handle as well as an Elise but have you ever considered the '2 to be lacking in this? A turbo will get close to the striaght line speed and certainly have oodles more top end, the '2 is more comfortable, its reliable and cheaper to run and its more practical.

If you can and haven't aready, try and drive a turbo'd '2 and Elise/Europa back to back, see what you think.

Never ever do this. EVER. If you do, you'll realise that an Elise-tub will always handle better than an MR2, regardless of what bits you stick to it, and have you running to find the Lotus man to buy one off him ASAP.  s;) s;)

I'd argue that an Elise is more practical than the MR2 though, given the fact it actually has a boot. MR2 is more accessible though for sure, and maintenance isn't as expensive, but you never get the same thrills of an Elise. Not even close.

[Anonymous]

I'd go out and test drive the full Lotus set if there was a dealer within 60miles of me... unfortunately the nearest one is Harrogate, past York, a mere 80miles in unfamiliar territory   s:? :? s:?  

I've just been hounding Youtube of the Top Gear clips for all the top of the range cars - the Exige versus Helicopter, Europa (which was never shown due to Hammond crash), Exige S, F430 (like i'm ever going to get one   s:( s:(  ), Z4 and the Porsches.

I'm just sat here, with my imaginary wishlist and these car brochures planning out next year's possible cars; shy of Lotus' brochures, the Z4 3.0 is top of my list, especially with the competitive insurance confused.com* offered me, £200 more than the MR2.


*Warning - do not get quotes from confused.com for supercars.  I submitted a quote for a laugh last night for the Ferrari F430 and got a phonecall today from Admiral Car Insurance asking me when I will be renewing the insurance on my Ferrari...

[Anonymous]

Heh, I've done that! I think it was only £2000 for me to insure myself on a Murci with Elephant, which means that should I win a supercar somehow, I reckon i can find a way to pay for the insurance easily enough!  s:D s:D


If you want a Z4 then you really don't want a Lotus. Totally opposite end of the spectrum, even if both are very good cars in their own right. Definitely worth taking a day out to a Lotus dealer and driving everything though (just ring up the week before or whatever and book it all up), as even if you don't end up buying one it's still a free day driving fantastic cars.

[Anonymous]

The Z4 3.0 is a competitive car though, it won't be a lotus, or a porsche, but it is a proper rough and ready car that you can get your hands dirty with.  I remember Hammond's first lap; he nearly lost it on the first turn because he was clocking some crazy speed and expected the same Porsche 911 handling that he was driving minutes beforehand.  

The second time around however, he handled it like it should be, and he pulled off one hell of a slide.

The Exige is a beautiful car so far, especially seeing as how it can do the same 4sec 0-60MPH as the F430 for 1/5th of the price.

Plus the Lotus range secretly support Toyota since they are using the Celica Engine  s;) s;)

[Anonymous]

I would argue that the Z4 is anything other than a rough and ready car, given the slightly squidgy suspension plus staid image. Now the Z4M on the other hand...!  s;) s;)  That's not to say it's not a good-handling car, but with the BMW you've got a reliable, solid but safe car that will eat up the miles, and with the Lotus you've got something that will rattle on every bump but will thrill you far more.

Ignore Lotus claims on 0-60 and 0-100, they're famous for being a mile out. The Exige isn't about point-to-point speed, but more about the sheer cornering speed and feel from the car.

[Anonymous]

That's a shame about the Lotus 0-60 timings, but there's always a bit of flexibility in what the manufacturer's say I guess.

My neighbour just delivered me a parcel.  Expecting some junk mail or something big that I had forgotten, I got quite the surprise when I found out it is a set of Porsche 'brochures'.  

The reason why they deserve inverted commas is the fact that they are all flippin' hard backed books with their cloth bookmark... what the hell?!

The main things for me, are that i've never owned a brand new car and that stretching for a brand new Lotus would thoroughly gimp my finances.  The Z4  3.0L on the otherhand is a different matter, which coming in at under £29k allowing for a few fancy extras, is affordable, and a fun car.

The MR2 is my break into a reliable fun sports car, and it did do that. I've not found a fault in it yet, aside from the previous owners 'marks' (scratched leather interior, nail/ring scratches everywhere, broken stereo, door speaker rattling etc); but rather than boy-racer or mod my MR2, i'm going to save up and upgrade.

Of course this still leaves me with choices - I could go for a brand new Z4,  second hand porsche, second hand lotus...

[Anonymous]

In order (and ignoring money) I'd have a 2nd hand 987 S, 2nd hand Exige S, then the Z4. It depends on what you want from a car, as the Exige is the most attention-grabbing, best drive but scrimps on luxury, the Porker is the true quality premium drive that comes in close behind the Exige in terms of thrills, and the BMW is the reps choice that is that little bit cheaper but a little less involving.

Regardless, I would not buy a brand new one of any of those cars given the current tax situation. Second hand (even an ex-demo with a couple thousand miles on it) is by far the better option now by a country mile.

[Anonymous]

Well, for and giggles i've found a few good buys - the Z4; Europa (for some reason Europa insurance is £2000 more for me, than an Exige... try explain that one!); Exige;  and for the Porsches, the cheapest 987 Boxster S comes in at a mere £29.5k with a shockingly bright interior.

[MOD=wabbitkilla]Keep the language clean or else! [/MOD]

[Anonymous]

Apologies about the double post..

John - i've heard reports that the Europa is a bit slippery on corners and lacks the epic grip of the Exige.  Is this true in your experience?

What would you take out of Exige or Europa, what with your experience of driving the Europa?

Allo

I didn't find this at all. I guess when you are hooning the thing round the track (and lets face it, thats less likely in a Europa than an Elise), then you might find the major differences, but ultimately, its not going to affect road driving that much.

I found the Europa to be on a par with the Elise to be honest. It was a little softer, but then thats the nature of the car. The ultimate grip and feel of the car was very Elise to be honest, which is good. It DOES lack the huge grip of the Exige, but then if you were even CLOSE to the limits of the grip on the road with an Exige, then 1) you better be doing it safely on a road where you won't get troubled 2) you better strap in cos if you DO crash, its going to be one hell of a bang. Breach the grip of an Exige on the road and by god, you have to be travelling..........

I can't really answer which one I would take as my driving tastes may be very different to you and everyone else. I personally, if I had a choice, would go with the Exige myself as I would only do it once, get it out of my system, do a few track days etc etc...........then probably sell and downgrade to the Europa!!!

As for the other comments, I would go and drive everything if I were you and make up your mind then. The problem with comparing ANY Lotus based on the Elise chassis is that its almost non-comparable with any other car on the road as they really ARE that different to drive. The Z4, Boxters etc of this world are "real world", every day sports cars. Cars designed to give you fun and practicality, with a fair dollop of driver involvement. The Lotus products on the other hand are driver orientated, designed with a purpose and because of that, have a limited, yet dedicated following. You can either live with a Lotus or you cant. There is no compromise, unless its a second car.

So, go and drive everything. And I mean EVERYTHING. And drive them thoroughly and then make your choice. You will be amazed at how different all of these cars feel (the Boxter would be my choice if I wasn't going to have an Elise by the way.....).

[Anonymous]

I'd go out and test drive the full Lotus set if there was a dealer within 60miles of me... unfortunately the nearest one is Harrogate, past York, a mere 80miles in unfamiliar territory   s:? :? s:?  

Formula 1 on Newcastle might be closer mate? They've always got a good range in. Nice people too.

They also have a Z4 3.0 coupe in stock!   s:) s:)   My friend has one of these and acceleration straight line speed was v.impressive, plus they are beautiful to look at (matter of opinion I know) and quite rare compared to the standard Z4.

http://formulaoneprestigecars.co.uk/

[Anonymous]

Cheers - i'll give them a looking at.   s;) s;)

The Europa insurance is £3500 for me, the Exige is £1500.  I don't know why, but I think that's forced my hand.

Edit:-  The Exige they have isn't very competitive at that price; i've seen Exige for £26k with a few miles on the clock, or brand new ones for only £32k...

Edit Edit:-  Of the Exige, does the lack of a useful rearview mirror impede your driving at all?

Is the Lotus a car you could leave on your drive, in the carpark at work, in the town carpark or would you fear for it being there when you come back to it?

[Anonymous]

Cheers - i'll give them a looking at.   s;) s;)

The Europa insurance is £3500 for me, the Exige is £1500.  I don't know why, but I think that's forced my hand.

Edit:-  The Exige they have isn't very competitive at that price; i've seen Exige for £26k with a few miles on the clock, or brand new ones for only £32k...

Edit Edit:-  Of the Exige, does the lack of a useful rearview mirror impede your driving at all?

Is the Lotus a car you could leave on your drive, in the carpark at work, in the town carpark or would you fear for it being there when you come back to it?

Firstly, the lack of mirror in the Exige only becomes apparant when you have been driving other cars WITH mirrors. You soon get used to not having one and then being extra vigilant when maneovering when driving. Adds to the sense of involvment! lol!!

Secondly, Exiges are indeed coming down in price and would be worth looking at if the Europa insurance price is THAT much more. Probably hight because of the engine capacity and turbo.......

As for leaving it places? Well, I had the front clam kicked in on mine 4 months after getting it and it was parked on a pavement side driveway, but it isn't the best of areas and there is a pub over the road. I don't live there anymore, but I didn't have ANY other trouble with it in the rest of my ownnership. You just get jealousy occiasionally, but on the whole, I got nothing by admiration and praise for it. You can leave it pretty much anywhere. If someone wants to kick a car in, I don't think that the fact that it is an Elise will make a lot of difference as there are always idiots around. Take the risk and never by a car on that premise as you will never do it. And who says you ARE going to get damage? Likelyhood is that you won't........

Keep us posted!

[Anonymous]

Cheers for the infos.
this site is probably my local dealer then.  They have priced up several Lotus' very uncompetitively, if I may say so.  Exige (new) £39k, Low spec Elise S 29k.  

I'm not sure if my family would want me driving around with no rearview - nor I, if for instance, I couldn't see the police car entering the sliproad behind me  s;) s;)

I priced up, according to the Lotus brochure, and I would go for one of the following:

1. Elise R w/ Touring pack + Hardtop (because of leaks) (should come to around £32k in the brochure, however it seems to be at 36-38k presently)

2. Exige w/ Touring pack (should come to around £36k in the brochure, however it seems to be at 40k presently)

3. Europa w/ Touring pack (if only I could get over that stupid insurance cost). (should come to around £35k in the brochure, however it seems to be at 40k presently)

[Stifler]

loved my VX (elise in a frock) and would buy an S1 as a second car in a heart beat if i had the cash sitting about - damn credit crunch!!  s;) s;)

[Anonymous]

Cheers for the infos.
this site is probably my local dealer then.  They have priced up several Lotus' very uncompetitively, if I may say so.  Exige (new) £39k, Low spec Elise S 29k.  

I'm not sure if my family would want me driving around with no rearview - nor I, if for instance, I couldn't see the police car entering the sliproad behind me  s;) s;)

I priced up, according to the Lotus brochure, and I would go for one of the following:

1. Elise R w/ Touring pack + Hardtop (because of leaks) (should come to around £32k in the brochure, however it seems to be at 36-38k presently)

2. Exige w/ Touring pack (should come to around £36k in the brochure, however it seems to be at 40k presently)

3. Europa w/ Touring pack (if only I could get over that stupid insurance cost). (should come to around £35k in the brochure, however it seems to be at 40k presently)

Potentially worth ignoring the letters and then bargaining..........  s;-) ;-) s;-)

If it was me, I would personally go for the R, but each to their own. You get the kick of the Toyota lump in a lighter weight car and you can still take the roof off (which, for me is a BIG selling point). The Exige is fabulous, but could see why you might not want to live with it. The Europa is a cracking car and ticks a lot of boxes the others dont, but the insurance is a bit special.........

The choice is yours, but whatever you choose, drive all of them to get a good comparison.......

[Anonymous]

I've just been on the phone to my local Lotus dealer, who said that i'd need to pop down 2months prior to purchase to order the car in (and also size up my MR2 for a part-ex quote).
He quotes for the above spec of Elise R a very fair £33,100.  I'd still try to get him down on that, especially when I do come to purchase it, later in the year (when it's colder and wetter).

Needless to say, the hardtop and softtop options are bonuses, specifically because the softtop leaks, so i'm hoping the hardtop won't!

Reckon i'd need to 'bag' the Elise during Snow and heavy rain when not in use at home?

[Anonymous]

Soft top on the short tail S2 doesn't leak unless you're silly with it, and the roof comes off the Exige if you want (can do a soft top conversion so no different to an Elise). Have you actually driven these cars yet? You may well find that the Exige is by far the better drive, and if you're going to be spending silly money on a silly car you might as well get the better one.

[TJK]

I've just been on the phone to my local Lotus dealer, who said that i'd need to pop down 2months prior to purchase to order the car in (and also size up my MR2 for a part-ex quote).
He quotes for the above spec of Elise R a very fair £33,100.  I'd still try to get him down on that, especially when I do come to purchase it, later in the year (when it's colder and wetter).

Madness surely to start pricing up cars you haven't driven!?

[Anonymous]

I may have even bought a car I hadn't seen, much less sat in or driven  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

[Anonymous]

What? I need to drive it?
I thought it was just going to sit pretty on my driveway  s;) s;)

Anyhow, i'm forward planning, no point 6 months down the line wanting a car like this and being unable to afford it.  I've been saving the money up that I wanted to spend on the '2 for a new car, which has all the things I wanted and liked of the '2 in it (and the extras I wanted modding to it too).

Come Sept/Oct i'll be visiting the dealership and see what they say.  It could be likely that since i'm only 24yrs old that i'll be refused finance, or even because i'm not a home owner, regardless of home much I earn.  But we will see.

You may well find that the Exige is by far the better drive, and if you're going to be spending silly money on a silly car you might as well get the better one.

I don't doubt that the Exige will be the better drive (it bloody well be, since it's top of the range!), but I really can't see me getting finance for a car that is just shy of £40k (at current, summer prices, at least).

[Anonymous]

I also wouldn't buy one brand new right now, not even in six months time. Let someone else take the hit on it, buy second hand.  s8) s8)

[Anonymous]

Hmm, but i'd like to experience a brand new vehicle and now is as good as time as any  s;) s;)

p.s.  

 m http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZpS_gndDE m

Exige > all.

[Anonymous]

Now is the worst time to be doing it! Given the added road tax you'll pay (£550 for the first year!) not to mention the state of the current money markets, you'll lose about £6K just driving off the forecourt. Pick up a low-mileage year-old example and you'll miss all that, and you'll never tell the difference between that and a brand new one except for the numbers on the dash. There's a few Exiges down at Castle Lotus near me, all 1-2 years old, and they could all be spanking new for all you could tell.

I agree that there's a certain feeling you get when buying a brand new car, but that's a feeling right now I'd save for buying a cheap runaround, not a sports car.