Workshop Manual

tom_deas · March 30, 2009, 19:41

Hey all

Long time no speak.

I'm selling the MR2 soon, but got a bit of time on my hands atm as 2nd year of uni is over for now and my jobs leave me with a lot of spare time during the day. So I felt like a project. Basically I'm getting a bit sick of seeing all these shabby eBooks and stuff floating on eBay. So I'm going to write a 100% legit, Toyota workshop manual based... workshop manual. Will get approval from Toyota to base it on their documents (HOWEVER will rewrite them so it's not a breach of copyright), properly bound and hard backed, basically a Haynes manual.

Just wondering if there would be any kind of interest for a product like that. I'm posting similar thoughts on forums for other car clubs that don't have Haynes manuals available btw - Porsche Boxster, Audi TT, Mazda MX5, etc, so expect similar posts there. Albeit only going to do one book at a time as it's just me working on my tod.

As I haven't started I can't say a price, but I'll get in touch with printing companies tomorrow, expect it to be £15 - £19 though, about the same price as a regular Haynes manual. I'll do the figures in the morning. In terms of estimated time to complete, print and ready to order, well I've got a lot of time on my hands without any real distractions, so I'd aim for end of May (albeit I've got exams in May that I should PROBABLY revise for!)

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Tom

Liz · March 30, 2009, 19:51

I will put a fiver in the club coffers if Toyota say yes to that...I am all for initiative but can't see them agreeing to that!

red_leicester · March 30, 2009, 20:14

You're two days early!!!

GSB · March 30, 2009, 20:27

Quote from: "tom_deas"(HOWEVER will rewrite them so it's not a breach of copyright)

Tom, I think you might need to take a closer look at the laws regarding breach of copyright.

In the meantime, members like might to new that I will have two new books in the shops over Easter, Angles & Demons, and my latest effort, Slimdog Billionaire.

markiii · March 30, 2009, 20:28

hell I'll put a tenner in if they say yes

but you do really that the engine manual alone is teh size of a haynes book, the body and electrics book is twice that size on it;s own

so your printing costs may be higher than you think

Anonymous · March 30, 2009, 20:34

Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, lived a little boy.................................................................

GSB · March 30, 2009, 20:43

Before this turns into topic drift hell, I'll say this;

The idea of creating a manual for the MR2 is excelent, and to be admired. However, you need to bear some things in mind.

In order to be genuinely useful, it would need photographs of the various steps. The only way to achieve this will be to buy an MR2, and strip it down to every last nut and bolt.

To make this effort worthwhile, you are going to need to incur some expenses then. A car, a comprehensive set of tools, and maybe a salaried mechanic to assist. To recoup this outlay you need to have some significant sales, and the MR2 didn't sell in significant numbers. With the general downturn in the number of people willing or able to do thier own maintenance, and the general rarity of the cars, it may be a close call on weather you'd sell enough copies to actualy make some money. A good business study will tell you if its likely, but if Haynes launch a manual in the meantime, you wont make a penny.

I'm not saying dont do it, I'm just saying it might not be good business.

Anonymous · March 30, 2009, 21:47

And you plan to do 4 other types of car before may?Are you having a laff?Is it April 1st? If you can do 1 Haynes style book before May i would be astonished and you would get my £20.

tom_deas · March 31, 2009, 01:22

F*cking hell bit of optimism please you moody buggers!! lol s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

+1 to Toyota being miserable but you never know till you ask eh.

+1 to manuals being big but not all of that info is necessary. Get the Toyota manuals, cut out the crap, add some snaps, make it user friendly, see how it goes.

Besides I'd only be printing to order or small batch and sell at cost.

JUST A SUGGESTION PEOPLE that I'm willing to put in the legwork to do something a bit useful to the community so if you're not happy with that then I'd appreciate a little less negativity s:lol: :lol: s:lol: I'm not looking for commercial gain just got some time on my hands and fancy a project and if theres some added value to be had from it from interest from other members who'd fancy a bit of something like that then trumps up

Kool PT · March 31, 2009, 08:38

Quote from: "GSB"
Quote from: "tom_deas"(HOWEVER will rewrite them so it's not a breach of copyright)

Tom, I think you might need to take a closer look at the laws regarding breach of copyright.

In the meantime, members like might to new that I will have two new books in the shops over Easter, Angles & Demons, and my latest effort, Slimdog Billionaire.

s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Kool PT · March 31, 2009, 08:38

if you can do it then by all means go for it, i'd buy it for sure.

however, i wonder how you can possibly do it.

ex-member · March 31, 2009, 08:53

Out of interest....whats wrong with the regular BGB style online book?

loadswine · March 31, 2009, 10:07

If you can pull it off Tom, it would be great. It is a heck of a task, but go for it. I couldn't do it, but I'm not that clever anyway! Some people have a talent for this and if this is one of yours, then be encouraged. s:)

s:)

cclarke99 · March 31, 2009, 11:25

It's a good idea, but some of the previous posts hint at your biggest problem, which is that you need to be sure what you are trying to produce before starting work. For example it could range in size from a comprehensive illustrated book covering all aspects (like BGB) to a relatively short book targetting FAQs. You need to decide your target audience (weekend tinkerers, people with a specific problem or serious enthusiasts) and the type of stuff they might be doing, (routine maintenance, repairs, upgrades, fault finding, etc). You can focus on specific topics (e.g. engine management, body repair) or activities (restoration, buying secondhand)

Then you need to bear in mind that whatever you produce it won't satisify all the punters. For example people often criticise Haynes (why - I don't know as they've sold zillions over the years) for being "noddy", but dealer books like BGB are heavily based on the use of special tools and specific maintenance procedures, so no use to weekend enthusiasts. Several other types of books have appeared,generally much thinner than Haynes, but they have never been that popular, because they didn't contain enough material. Even Haynes have evolved over the years, so that the new books don't cover so much detail (no more gearbox repairs for example) because modern vehicles are so much more complex. They've also dropped the lovely exploded views, presumably as they were too expensive to produce.

Don't forget that you are competing with Toyota (including illegally available BGB rip-offs) and Haynes (who do know what they are doing), so your work needs to offer something to differentiate if from the rest. What they don't have access to is the content of this and other relevant forums, so that suggests a good starting point. The forum content will shape what you should cover, and the actual posts should provide a lot of the material for the book.

Without wishing to pour cold water on the idea, don't underestimate the amount of work it would take. 2 or 3 pages a day is good going for technical writing and a typical Haynes is about 150 pages, so even with all your material to hand, it's going to take several months to produce a manual.

Finally - don't let any of the above put you off, I'm sure people said much of the same to Mr. Haynes when he started out. I enjoy writing this kind of stuff and I hope you enjoy your project.

Anonymous · March 31, 2009, 14:12

There is a massive amount of info on here and sc which I guess could be collated into a very useful written format (Tech. Library, FAQ's, Stickies etc.). Quite an editorial task but would be good if somebody could and would be marketable within the community. No idea about copyright in these circumstances. If you go ahead then just remember to write the SMT section first s:D

s:D

darkday · March 31, 2009, 17:10

Quote from: "nelix"Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, lived a little boy.................................................................

The more time I spend here the more I realize it's what SC used to be. I love it. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

markiii · March 31, 2009, 17:11

Quote from: "darkday"
Quote from: "nelix"Once upon a time, in a land far, far away, lived a little boy.................................................................
The more time I spend here the more I realize it's what SC used to be. I love it. s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

I really wish that were true:-) we are far to tactful :-) :-) :-)

darkday · March 31, 2009, 17:25

Quote from: "markiii"I really wish that were true:-) we are far to tactful :-) :-) :-)

Yeah but you don't have the weiners who are on SC now who say "You guys stop it! He can do anything he sets his mind to! Jerks!" anytime anyone points out the faults in someones plan.

Anonymous · March 31, 2009, 17:31

Clubs like the MG owners club have taken time to capture their history (violins etc.). Seriously, if I were a bit closer to retirement it could be a really engaging project to capture the technical info on here and sc and market it.

markiii · March 31, 2009, 17:34

see I have a bit of an issue there, we are a free club run for it's members, and any info provided on here is passed on with that intent,

I'd not be too happy to have knowledge I and other provide for free sold for commercial gain

Anonymous · March 31, 2009, 17:45

Sorry, I didn't mean personal gain; something the club should consider for its own / members benefit. Some people will be prepared to pay for the wealth of info (properly organised and presented etc). It's actually free to anybody now but the guy from sc sold loads of the laminated basic data sheet for example. The club is not for money so maybe I'm out of order.

filcee · April 2, 2009, 19:02

Yebbut, there is an argument that says it is fair to pay for work done. Clearly, the information is available for free, but it can take a lot of searching (including a certain amount of stick if you don't quite find what you are looking for and ask for help), then collating and understanding the information you have found. Then there is an element of trial and error whislt you try and replicate the 'instructions' in order to meet your own particular needs, or the foibles of your particular car. Now, if someone offered to find, research and write down what I needed to save me several hours work, a few sets of skinned knuckles and generally bolster my wholly insufficient knowledge, then that would be worth something to me.

However, that would have to be balanced with the acknowledgement of the source of that information in some way. As I see it, there is a middle ground in which all parties would get something out of this. What I am going to suggest is that if a manual is produced based on information from here (and potentially SC), then any profits over and above basic production costs should be split equally between the club (or clubs) as the source of the information, and the compiler[1] of the information such that he or she is paid in some way for the time and effort they have expended in order to collect the information together and present it in an easily useable format.

[1]I chose compiler over author, as it seems to me that this would be a compilation of the work of many, rather than an original, wholly new 'thing'

Anonymous · April 2, 2009, 19:23

+1 here. Much of the info in a Haynes manual is about stripping and rebuilding the engine / gearbox etc. whereas in reality how many owners are going to go that far? Far more useful is the everyday stuff posted on here and sc.
Tom, you need to respond at some point.

markiii · April 2, 2009, 19:24

well I'll probably raise some hackles saying this but oh well thats life

If I'm buying something that aims to address a technical subject in a technical and effective manner where accuracy is all

I'd be wanting teh author/compiler (call them what you will) to have a good understanding of the subject to be conveyed, you need to understand your subject to explain it.

So far I've seen precious little evidence of that s:flame: :flame: s:flame:

Anonymous · April 2, 2009, 20:23

Then why don't you think about it? Or be technical advisor / consultant to somebody who can collate and edit (a completely different skill set). Personally, a download of some of the existing stuff properly organised (much of which has your name on it ) would be some sort of start, in a ring binder, photocopied to order etc, etc.

Workshop Manual

ex-member