Thinking about getting a MR2 but this pre-cat stuff is....

vatovey · June 17, 2009, 11:09

Morning Ladies/Gents,

Newbie here, and along with it, a newbie question which I'm sure has been asked a million times before (apologies).

Currently have a BMW E46 compact, and a Peugeot 306 HDi. Thinking of getting rid of the 306 and getting a MR2 Roadster - most probably around X/Y/51 plate (ie: around £4000-4500) , I have been doing a little research on the MR2 and it seems like some engines are failing due to pre-cat debry floating around in the engine, as a potential new owner this does worry me alot as from the sounds of things there is no way to tell when viewing a car as to the condition of the pre-cats and associated parts which fail, or am I wrong in thinking that ??, if I am - what things can I check when viewing MR2's ?

Out of say 1000 cars, how many are likely to suffer the dreaded pre-cat/engine dead problems ?

I assume the other things to check for are the same for all other cars, ie: air-con, electrics, rubber seals, water leaks, smokey exhaust etc...

All the best, Vaughn.
South Wales, UK.

enid_b · June 17, 2009, 11:46

the thing to remember is that you are asking a question on a forum dedicated to mr2 owners and enthusiasts. we generally have a better knowledge and want to improve/maintain our cars to the 'n'th degree. so any little idiosyncracy picked up on here will generally be discussed until the cows come home. (which is not always a bad thing)

consider how many mr2 roadsters there are in existence globally, and then the uk, then the members of this club it has affected, it is a very very small number. obviously it is going to draw a lot of attention on this website.

the chances of it happening to you is very slim. however it is still a chance, and as with all cars to an extent, its a risk. the club has encouraged owners to remove them as a matter of urgency, and this is a no brainer really. its not the most difficult job in the world to do, and it brings a large amount of piece of mind.

its all about doing your homework. ideally i would purchase from someone selling on here, you can find out more about the car before committing to purchase. the top of the precats can be inspected quite easily, and i would insist on seeing that when you go looking at cars to buy. any owner with nothing to hide should not have a problem showing you. check service history, mileage, condition and level of the oil, smoke, all the usual stuff.

it is unlikely that you will end up with a dud, just be aware that some of these engines are wonky. alternatively save a little more and get a slightly newer one. post 03 facelift have a little revision on the engine which seems to reduce the chances, slightly.

plus you could consider buying an aftermarket warranty if you are that concerned. they are not cheap, but will also bring peace of mind.
hope this helps, and welcome s:D

s:D

roger · June 17, 2009, 14:25

Hi Vaughn. Hope everything goes well with your search.

This "problem" is a bit like the head gasket on a K series (MGF, say). It's a known factor, and you take a chance. Other cars have other foibles. Having said that the chances are (IMO) very small.

Certainly the best way to ignore it is to buy a post '03 car.

Next best is a warranty.

Just be as sure as you can that you don't buy something that has been causing the prevous owner some concern, and then keep an eye on oil useage. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

vatovey · June 17, 2009, 14:44

Thank you very much for the replies, they are much appreciated.

Unless the owner of the car is willing for you to take the 02 sensors out to check the pre-cats (which I suspect not many will allow), are there any other easy ways of determining whether a MR2 suffering from the pre-cat problem ??

I am generally looking on eBay, and this one has taken my fancy, what do you think, is it overpriced ?, unfortunately - I don't think my budget is going to stretch to a 03 plate MR2 s:(

s:(

eBay Link

Do many people remap their MR2 ECU's for increased performance ?, I have a KWP2000+ flashing box which I've used on my 306 HDi with great success.

roger · June 17, 2009, 14:55

Just to add to the "pre-cat problem" scenario, nobody has ever really got to the bottom of whether its engine bore problems using oil that distorts the pre-cats, or the breakup of pre-cats that cause engine damage. We believe the 03 beefs up both points.

Without being able to look, the only other way is a compression test (to make engine is still OK), or somehow check oil useage. A look on the dipstick wouldn't come admiss, but that might not prove anything.

As to flashing the ECU, that's not possible. You either have to buy a piggy-back (emanage or the likes) or replace it with something like Power FC.

muffdan · June 17, 2009, 14:58

remapping the stock ECU it's possible. Even if you could the gains would be slim. Searchy for unichip to see what you can get out of a stock engine by chipping it. You'll discover its not much. Turbo conversions are the most popular mod for significant power gains, or for those wanting to stay NA, an engine swap for a 2ZZ.

Jason

*edit, roger you just pipped me!

StuM · June 17, 2009, 15:01

Hi.

That one looks to be priced ok to me - good to have FSH and the miles are low.

To be honest, the inspection of the precat matrix through the O2 sensor holes is a 5 minute (max) job and I would be a little wary of anyone who doesn't let you do this. Do bear in mind however that this is only a partial check as you only see one side of the matrix.

The main symptom I've heard is the car lacking willingness to rev - this would be evident on a test run.

Make sure that you check the oil. Ideally both before and after a lengthy test drive.

I'll leave for others to comment on the remapping.

Cheers,
Stu

Silverman · June 17, 2009, 20:25

Quote from: "vatovey"Out of say 1000 cars, how many are likely to suffer the dreaded pre-cat/engine dead problems ?

I assume the other things to check for are the same for all other cars, ie: air-con, electrics, rubber seals, water leaks, smokey exhaust etc...

Welcome, my friend. You are asking the right question ('how many'?) but I don't think you'll get the answer.

I started to admire the Mk 3 when it first appeared on our roads. One day, my wife said "Why don't you get yourself one?" (WOW! Shock !#!#! WHAT!!!etc) I searched (gently) for a year and found my
present, 2004, little baby. HAD I FOUND THIS WEBSITE FIRST, I WOULD NEVER HAVE BOUGHT AN MR2! PRE CATS, PISTON RINGS, EMISSIONS/MOT, TYRES, LUBRICANTS, MODS, HOOD, DITCHES etc!!!!!....

The ROCsters are an amiable, most pleasant and sometimes knowledgeable bunch with a too strong sense of anything goes. Nobody in the Club beats a 'policy' drum saying how good the Roadster is but, by jove, if someone reports a problem it's absorbed, digested, circulated, inflated, publicised and flag waved to all and sundry!! Dirty washing for all to see, as they say 'oop YKW.' Meanwhile, most of us are happily driving our wonder pocket rockets around, perfectly happy and marvelling at Toyota reliability, design etc. There have been times when I, after seeing a particularly wounding edition of latest probs. here, have turned back to my collection of positive motoring press stories about the Mk 3 for reassurance!! s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:roll: :roll: s:roll: s:roll: :roll: s:roll:

So, if you really want one, take note of the buying advice here, weigh up the running costs and security aspects, search the field and buy a good'un. Good luck.

enid_b · June 17, 2009, 21:25

we are a hypercritical and finnicky bunch, and we do look to the 'n'th degree when there is a problem. but there is always a solution from within these pages of code.

as silverman said, sometimes it looks all doom and gloom, but i think it is because we love these cars so much, and worry when our 'special ones' get a little sick.

take the plunge, you will not regret it.

Anonymous · June 17, 2009, 21:38

its easy to read up on forums and get scared by stuff

i didn;t worry about pre cats and it never caused me a prob.

from what i have read its not a big job to inspect them anyway- so just do this prior to buying if your really worried!

vatovey · June 17, 2009, 22:04

cheers for the info and support everyone, i currently post on the pug306.net forums, and much like this forum from what I can see - they are extremely useful with virtually unlimited help / information from its members.

The only reason I am zero'ing in on this pre-cat issue as I can see it could cost a hell of a alot of money to repair, so it would have been nice to have a quick guide when checking over potential cars, in absence of such a guide I think I will simply look to rev the engine and listen for any problems, put my hand over the exhaust and get someone to rev - maybe unburnt oil will get spat out, and take it for a run a listen/look for any acceleration type issues.

Is there anything else specific to MR2's I should be looking out for ??

Anonymous · June 17, 2009, 22:15

Make sure it only has two seats, or you are being conned!

spit · June 17, 2009, 22:27

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Welcome to the ROC s8)

s8)

The EBay ad seems pretty friendly, but just to warn you we had a recent case of a rogue seller where the precats were stuffed and the guy had smashed out the Check Engine Light on the dash - that should always come on with the ignition and extinguish when you start the engine.

Bubbling alloys are a known issue with the '2 (and Celica). Proper blast, clean and refurb is not overly expensive.

Radiators can take a corrosion hammering although we haven't seen too many failures.

Noisy power steering pumps and un-smooth steering could lead to expense if you're replacing with new pump - over £1000k ... but they are serviceable, and the jury is out as to whether the pump is always the culprit.

Rear subframe (holding two of the 3 suspension arms) can suffer really bad corrosion where it holds and catches water, so get your head in there (tricky if the under-plastics are in place but doable - take a torch!!)

Hoods are expensive and difficult to replace so make sure its well maintained.

Brake pad wear tends to be higher on the inner pads - hard to see but worth a furtle around.

Other than that, general second-hand inspection rules should see you right. Good luck.

Silverman · June 18, 2009, 20:46

Hi Vatovey,
Spit does know what he's talking about, so there you go... S'man.

vatovey · June 19, 2009, 16:10

went to view the mr2 in the above ebay link last night... nice, very nice.

the seller seemed to know what he was talking about, said he removed the pre-cats already.

had a test drive which was strange... not the car, the sensation it gave me, as I've never driven a roadster/convertable before I felt.... erm, very enclosed, almost clostrophobic due to the lack of space which I guess I am used to with most other cars I've owned, I guess it'll be a case of simply getting used to it.

All I gotta do now is sell my 306, and I think I will be on the road to being a MR2 owner s:bounce: :bounce: s:bounce: