new car.....

[ChrisGB]

thats reassuring about them having to replace the car, but i have a new question then;

if i demonstrate how much it will cost me to replace the mr2, say (for example only) we both agree it will cost 4000 to replace my car; do they then make sure that i go and buy an mr2 with that?? do they maybe buy an mr2 for me? or do they give me the money and am i free to buy anything??

i am actually really shaken up by it like, but its like i said, if i had crashed knowing i was going too fast

although i am thinking you may be right, i may have gone into the corner at x speed, and the back end slid out, but after that Im not sure how i tried to control it (more throttle/less throttle/same) but obviously it wasnt the right choice and its totally because of my lack of experience i.m.o.

To my knowledge, the insurance company give you the money and you buy whatever you like. Never heard of any clauses to prevent that (unless it is a gap insurance or new car like for like policy).

The art of catching a slide in any car is to expect it. Reading the road and knowing how your car will respond are things gained from experience, tuition and experimentation. The MR2 is a relatively stable car and you can get away with quite a lot, but it has the engine in the middle so if the tail gets away, you are treading a fine line to bring it back. I have tried to drift mine but can never hold a good angle (especially in the wet) and end up catching it or abusing it and spinning.

Once the back starts to slide you need to gather it up before it really develops. Staying on the gas will not remove the cause of the slide, but getting off it too much will transfer weight and grip forward making it worse. Opposite lock will be needed, but you need to unwind it before the car swings the other way. The joy of the MR2 is that it is a great communicator and the interactions and signals it sends are subtle and accurate. This makes it a challenging and rewarding drive. But one you need to build up the bond with before you relax in the wet. I drove mine like a granny in the wet for the first few weeks.

Chris

[Anonymous]

yea chris i know what you mean

i mean i want to believe that it was the tyres and that if this situation had taken place about a month later, the outcome would have been very different, but the truth is its just got the fear in me now! so im not sure what will happen

plus a good mr2 is hard to find near me, will have to wait and see what happens its like i said

i really am torn, i'd love to get another mr2 but at the same time, i dont - its hard to explain!

ps i just watched the butterfly effect - what a great film!!!

edit: forgot to ask - if insurance company are going to have to replace my car like for like anyway if i declare that i have a hard top, should i not just declare it then??

[ChrisGB]

yea chris i know what you mean

i mean i want to believe that it was the tyres and that if this situation had taken place about a month later, the outcome would have been very different, but the truth is its just got the fear in me now! so Im not sure what will happen

Seriously, if it happened a month or a year later, mismatched tyres could still drop you in it. No matter how good a driver you are, if you have a bit less grip at the back than at the front in a mid engined car you are at the mercy of lady luck.

plus a good mr2 is hard to find near me, will have to wait and see what happens its like i said

i really am torn, i'd love to get another mr2 but at the same time, i dont - its hard to explain!

ps i just watched the butterfly effect - what a great film!!!

edit: forgot to ask - if insurance company are going to have to replace my car like for like anyway if i declare that i have a hard top, should i not just declare it then??

Once bitten it is difficult to get back to it I suppose. As for the car value, the hardtop is part of the spec and this could help you with replacement valuation. Just because you value it with one, it is unlikely that when they come to collect it they will notice the hardtop missing. Tough call.

Chris

[darkday]

I'd definitly sit on it for a few days before making a decision. I know the feeling, you're constantly second guessing yourself and your ability to drive after an incident like that. There's not much you can do about it now but you can move on with life and avoid situations like that in the future. If you do get a new MR2 just make sure it has a staggered setup with the same tires all around. Then next time it rains drive extra slow, go to a parking lot and have some fun. IMO you really do have to get to know this car before you can catch it in a spin. At least for me it wasn't natural. For me I was able to drive slow for the most part and get away without a spin until winter came around and I was able to practice alone in the snow and really understand how the car behaves in a spin.

EDIT: And plus one for mismatched tires being bad even if you're experienced. We've got a punk on SC just today in fact who is saying experience makes up for not having stagger/mismatched tires and it's just stupid to think that. If you think you're a good enough driver that you can do stupid crap like that chances are you're just a punk kid who's full of it.

[ChrisGB]

An airfield day can be a good opportunity to learn the limits and beyond too. Don't know about your area but we have an organisation down here on North Weald airfield with Car Limits. Good fun, especially when it rains.

Chris

[Anonymous]

ah ok so you think i should not let on that have it, but try and give them prices for 2's with hard tops?? sneaky sneaky   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

will see what happens tomorrow when they pick it up!


yea couldnt agree more.
really need a couple of hours on a wet track to get to know the car like but i dont think anywhere does that here   s:( s:(

[Anonymous]

EDIT: And plus one for mismatched tires being bad even if you're experienced. We've got a punk on SC just today in fact who is saying experience makes up for not having stagger/mismatched tires and it's just stupid to think that. If you think you're a good enough driver that you can do stupid crap like that chances are you're just a punk kid who's full of it.

yea im not familiar with the physics of it, i like to understand everything im told, anyone who knows me will tell you that if someone tells me something and its new to me, first thing i ALWAYS say is "why??"   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

but the situation i have in my head is kinda like this:

if you have worlds best ice skater, put him in roller skates, then send him out on the ice - a kid with ice skates who has skated maybe 2-3 times will still be better
[edit. what i mean to say is a pro in a car with wrong tyres still wont be able to handle it! if tyres really are that big a deal]

maybe an extreme but thats what im guessing its like (although i still find it hard to grasp as tread pattern seems like such a minor thing! [my wheels were staggered btw - 205 rear 185 front incase that changes anything])

[darkday]

i still find it hard to grasp as tread pattern seems like such a minor thing!

You're not even scratching the surface with your thoughts on this.

You've got sooo much more then tread pattern going on here. First off tread compound is crucial. The compound will determine how much overall grip you have both in dry and wet to a degree. It can also react differently to temperatures. Then you've got sidewall stiffness. This will affect spring rates and just how the car feels overall. As you mentioned earlier tread pattern is big especially in the wet (Sound familar? :p ).

Now let's just take an extrememe example to illustrate my point while keeping things simple. Let's say you have a summer tire designed for dry conditions up front and a all season tire in the rear. So you're driving along happily minding your own business and taking some corners at a decent pace on a warm sunny day. You've got a staggered setup so what's there to worry about? You'll get some understeer if anything right? Well no, that summer tire is going to grip like a mother F-er and that all-season is going to give way MUCH quicker. Now switch it around and if it's raining you'll get crazy oversteer since the all-season will be better in the wet. In fact with the differing sidewalls it can be very difficult to feel what the car is doing as well so even though you may be good at driving and able to recover normally you can't because everything is just "wrong".

Might I also add that we've had cases where people were driving on the highway in a perfectly straight line at normal speeds and the car felt unstable. After putting the same tire all around the car felt perfect again. The issue of mismatched tires is extremely complex IMO and one cannot begin to go through all of the possible issues that can arise from mixing tires.

[markiii]

yep all of the above, plus make sure they are GOOD tyres, not your cheap ditchfinders (no pun intended)

I worked out many years ago that all of my accidents in my youth were in teh wet, since then I've always made sure my tyres are good in teh wet even if it means sacrificing a little dry weather grip

get the roadster on teh right tyres and it will communicate sop well you know exactly how much grip you have to exploit, thats why I keep recommending the Yoko Neovas, they are teh nearest thing to telepathy you can get

[aaronjb]

... after that Im not sure how i tried to control it (more throttle/less throttle/same) but obviously it wasnt the right choice and its totally because of my lack of experience i.m.o.

Can I just say that this shows a level of maturity not often seen on car forums - especially (sorry to generalise  s:) s:) ) by younger drivers. Usually the tendency is to blame ice/diesel/the magical spin fairies, rather than ourselves. Not that I want to see anyone demonstrate maturity after a big accident, but you know what I'm getting at, hopefully!

I worked out many years ago that all of my accidents in my youth were in the wet, since then I've always made sure my tyres are good in the wet even if it means sacrificing a little dry weather grip

You clearly weren't trying hard enough Mark  s:P s:P  My first big accident was sticking a diesel Metro in a ditch at 70 on a dry sunny day! Ahem. Granted it was a heap - it turned out the front subframe was in two halves before the accident (can you say cut 'n' shut?). Anyway, I digress..

[StuM]

... after that Im not sure how i tried to control it (more throttle/less throttle/same) but obviously it wasnt the right choice and its totally because of my lack of experience i.m.o.

Can I just say that this shows a level of maturity not often seen on car forums - especially (sorry to generalise  s:) s:) ) by younger drivers. Usually the tendency is to blame ice/diesel/the magical spin fairies, rather than ourselves.

Big +1 on that.  Best bet is to take it as a learning experience.  I think having a little fear is a good thing for driving, riding etc - it means that you don't feel invincible, and it is those drivers that do that are a risk.  Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

ps. those spin fairies are sods!

[Anonymous]

Crikey.  Just logged on and thought you'd been 'modding' with all the comments but i didnt expect those kind of 'mods'.

Sorry to hear about your crash but glad you got out ok.  That's the main thing that you are ok   s:) s:)  

Sarah

[digress]

mind if i ask what happened yours disgress??

also, am i right in assuming that the insurance company WONT in any circumstances pay more than i have given as the value of the car??

for example the cheapest mr2 roadster within a 40 mile radius of me is an 01 blue, 4,695 no hard top (overpriced i know but cars here in NI are always dearer)

There is a thread on here somewhere, basically a pissed up yobbo crashed into it outside my flat and scarpered to the pub. Just 27 days after I picked it up!

My insurance company didn't pay any attention to the value of the car I had given, the impression I get is that that figure is more to get a ball-park and is more often cited to allow the value of rare or older cars to be properly assessed.

In fact I ended up with a comfortably higher payout than the car had originally cost me. It's not your fault that if you got such a good deal in the first place that a replacement will result in spending more (and it did cost me more for a replacement).

I'd be using that MR2 in NI as a major bargaining point, it's not your problem if it's overpriced and point out that the hard top is worth an extra £500-800 on top.

It's a bargaining process, don't accept their first or second offer, prove you know your stuff about the car and go from there.

As for a replacement if you're contemplating a Golf TDI then maybe the MR2 just ain't for you (nothing wrong with that)? They are completely different cars and frankly at your lower budget I'd always be a bit nervous of running an older MR2 and keeping on the road.

Sit on it for a few days. 6yrs ago when I was your age I wrote-off a 1.1 106 by heading into a field. It's a gut wrenching feeling (made worse as it was my mum's motor) but you get over it and improve as a driver.

[Anonymous]

yea i know what you're all saying

i suppose what i REALLY want to find out is whether an mr2 with the right tyres, driven by me round that corner at the same speed in same conditions would go round no problem. in which case it would really put my mind at ease and i would be happy to get another 2. the question is though am i willing to spend the insurance money to find out?

i'm not so sure  s:( s:(

good to know about the insurance payout too disgress ill be sure to get as many good high valuations as i can   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  the fact that my car was in the database as having only 15k miles on it must be worth something too right? i reckon it must have been adjusted after toyota replaced most of the engine?

if i get 4000 paid out i will be very happy as after selling the hard top i will have 4500, take off my excess (450...) and the difference in my insurance next year, ill be back at what i paid for the car, 3500. will try to get more than that though...   s8) s8)

[enid_b]

benny, you seem to be in a bit of a flap. take a breath and count to ten.

ask yourself these simple questions.

1, why did you want an mr2
2, how much effort did you put into finding the right one
3, how much effort did you go to in buying and collecting the one you selected
4, what was the feeling you had when you first took the keys for it
5, what was it like when you drove home in it for the first time
6, did you keep looking out of the window when you got home, to see if it was still there.
7, did you get worried when someone parked within 100m of it
8, had you heard horror stories about how this car is a widow maker
9, did it feel like it had 500hp and you were terrified of pressing the accelerator in case it sped off leaving a trail of flames, incinerating all other road users
10, did you want to go to a max power cruise and show off your 140bhp 'monster' and drag race all fast n furious style?

have a look at your answers, im guessing that you bought this car because it was a little different, a little special, and made you feel nice inside.  fine, you broke the first one.  most likely to be a COMBINATION of incorrect tyres, and lack of driver skill (known greasy road or bad corner)/infamiliarity of a new style of driving.

this car is not high performance. its weight is perfectly distributed between its wheels, its handling is sublime. now, i am a driving god and i say that with no bragging intended. regardless of which car you are in, your driving style has to meet the conditions of the road in front of you. on this occasion, you failed. i never span my car (apart from a deliberate session on southport beach, but thats a different story)  s:D s:D  , i never locked up or got out of control, and i always always drive to the conditions of the road i am on. if you get your money back, you should NOT be scared of getting another one, just in case you have a mishap.  85% or more of the folks on here use this car in all year round conditions, it is not a summer car, its for enjoying.

some years back, i treated (lol) myself to a rover 214 SEi, like the sable colour, half leather, nice alloys etc. i chopped in my old astra and off we went happy campers.  5 days later, having covered 152 miles, i hit some black ice on the M60 flyover by the Trafford Centre.  i overcorrected the steering and started a series of 3 x 360' spins, hitting the inside of the bridge, taking 2 feet of the front of the car, spinning some more and hitting the outside of the bridge taking another corner off the car.  i was smacked in the face by an airbag, the seat belts exploded and pulled me into the chair. i came to rest in lane 1 pointing the wrong way, with no lights on at 0600.  scratched around the footwell for my cigs and my mobile, and phone the feds.

cause = too much speed compounded with lighter steering than i was used to (hence over correction) black ice on the motorway, and late for work.

result = very nervous about driving in icy conditions for about 3 months. also i always slow down a little on that bridge regardless of the time of year. its automatic.


did it put me off buying another rover 214 SEi ? nope. i was just gutted i could not afford another one!!!!

pull yourself together man. get another one. learn to drive it properly. make sure your tyres match and pressures are correct. drive accordingly.  read/ask here for help and advice. there are loads of people (me included) who are desperate to get one of these little beauties, but other life factors are getting in the way. you are in prime position. get your insurance company to work for you. thats what you pay them for.

rant over

E

end result = happy campers all round.

[enid_b]

i would recommend that you dont start trying to fiddle the insurance or get involved with selling the hard top. sometimes people have been investigated and little discrepencies arise.  end result. no payout, and no car!

plus, if you do make more out of the insurance, it comes out of my premium next year !!!!! and that does not make me smile

[Anonymous]

yea enid i know what youre saying, but at the end of the day it has just shaken me up a bit!

about the insurance, they WILL have to pay more though if i give them the hard top though won't they??

just out of curiosity, whereabouts would you guys say the centre of gravity of mass in the car is? i know it IS "mid engined" but to me as a complete novice it looks like the engine is in the rear, and as such all most of the weight would seem to be over the back wheels?


also its a shame i didnt take down the make/models of both sets of tyres, maybe could shed some more light on it

[enid_b]

the hard top is technically part of the car. if you insert your reg into any of these 'value your car' websites, it will pop up with ac+hard top as the model.  if so, then you are being a bit naughty to try and recover that and sell it. it is your own choice of course, but i would hate to see your claim rejected for trying to swindle them. the value of the car is reflected with the hard top already on.  it is more valuable than one without it, but not as much as you would get from a private sale.

the engine is in front of the rear wheels, albeit not a great deal. hence the name MID ENGINED.  you think of the weight of you, and all the gubbins at the front end, then it aint gonna be far off centre.  thats the whole point!!!

a crash will shake you up. thats only natural. and again, it is a powerful learning tool, that should stand you in good stead for the future, albeit an expensive and distressing lesson.
i never go round a corner at more than 8/10ths of what a car can do. that leaves me (as in individual) a comfortable margin between safety and performance.

make and model of tyre is not important. the important bit is that they were different.  it has been explained above by others. but it does not take a genuis to work out that different tyres will grip and behave differently.  its not your fault for not being aware of it, and FWD are a lot less sensitive to it. but i bet you a hundred pounds that you wont let it happen again.

just buy another one and have done with it.

[inert2k3]

I think its classified as mid engined because the engine sits in between the front and rear tyres even though its in the back of the car

Mohammed

[Anonymous]

but i bet you a hundred pounds that you wont let it happen again.

correct sir   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

well the thought of getting another one is definitely growing on me more and more but whether or not i want to go back to england for one is another story, we will see how it goes


i just rang the repair people (its with them at the minute) to let them know that i had the hard top, he says he will let them know that i have it but wont give it to them just yet as it wasnt on the car, so im keeping everything right   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

Benny, did you tell your insurers you had a hard top? If not, keep quiet, if yes you may find under the terms of the insurance it was not covered as it ws classed as a mod, in which case it is yours to keep.
If you want to get another 2, and you see any in Scotland, i would be glad to check it out for you before you come over the water, for a few guiness of course  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Aaron is right about your maturity here, it is refreshing and i think you and the club will fit well together. Take a few days to consider all your options.

[muffdan]

The car shouldn't have spun, if you consider yourself to have been driving 'normally' around that bend, if you know what I mean. Mismatched tyres and bad alignment both cause this, I can personally confirm and vouch for both. On the case of the alignment, mine was found to be within manufactures tolerances. The tolerances set by Toyota are simply huge!

I'm pretty sure if you get another one and the tyres and alignment are done, the handling in the wet will be fine. Certainly don't let what happened affect your desicion to buy another.

Jason

[Anonymous]

if only they knew!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

edit: in case you cant read it it says "mismatched tyres can inversely affect the cars handling"

[Anonymous]

edit

mr2 is totally out now, the year of NCB i was building up is gone aswell, so im back to 0, mr2 is £2200 in that case....

[muffdan]

ouch,

What happens to your present policy? Is is still active? If you buy another, can it not be covered by your present policy still for the next 12 months? I guess you'll still have the problem of zero years NCB at the end of it though.

Jason