To turbo or not to turbo...

[Tem]

Been trying to think about this for a while now...could use some help at this point. Ignoring the price and setup issues...what are the pros and cons for turbo (compared to N/A).

Pro:
More power with less money (when you're above 200rwhp anyway)
More low end torque


Con:
Wait for the engine oil to warm up
Drive nicely for a while before stopping (no turbo timer for me)
Lag
Reduced maintenance interval (not really an issue for me)
Easier to blow the engine (also not an issue, with proper setup?)


The pros are kinda easy, cause there's so much talk about them. But what about the cons..?

How long should one wait before flooring the throttle? I don't have an oil temp meter, so I have no idea. And how bad it actually is, if you don't?

Same for the cooling down...are we talking about a mile or two or more?

Lag...assuming the revs are always above 4000rpm when I wanna go, how is the lag up there? Or is there any left? Are we talking about a second, less or more?



And before anyone asks why I'm so interested in the warmup/cooling-times, most of my driving is very short distances. Just wondering if I have any time to actually use the turbo on normal drive  s8) s8)

[mph]

Best to pop over here and arrange a test drive   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Try looking at it from another perspective: how set in your ways is your driving technique?

Pros: silly amounts of torque.
Cons: engine no-longer bullet proof.*

That's what it comes down to.

You shouldn't be flooring the throttle until there's some temperature in the oil without a turbo already, so that should make any difference. Likewise, it's hardly a good idea to come straight off track and turn the engine straight off. If you already care for your engine, then having in you shouldn't have to do anything different once you have a turbo bolted on.

*The cons however will be largely negated come the TTE turbo. Us pioneers don't have the resources to fine-tune every component they way TTE have had to do.

I've only just got my oil gauge back from the manufacturers (it's a custom length mechanical capillary tube) and will be going before the end of the month (read: Anglesey circuit). I'll be able to say more then. Markii will also be bring up the PocketLogger (hint) so could bring some graphs from that.

Lag. With the PE kit, there is no lag from 3000rpm upwards. Once I get my mitts on a PocketLogger, I should be able to show some authoritive graphs (I'm thinking TPS vs RPM).


I'm currently doing a lot of very short trips at the moment. Given they're all in built-up areas there's no use for the turbo anyway. The only extra I'm doing is shortening the oil change to 3,333mile intervals.

I'm expecting to have a few laps driving markiii's '2 at Anglesey; for no other reason than to remind me how much power the turbo has   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Tem]

You shouldn't be flooring the throttle until there's some temperature in the oil without a turbo already, so that should make any difference. Likewise, it's hardly a good idea to come straight off track and turn the engine straight off.

I guess I made it sound worse that I should've  s8) s8)  I don't floor the throttle before the stock meter shows some temp and I don't park right after hard driving.

I meant more along the lines of normal driving. If I start a turbocar, should I be extra careful not to create any boost before the engine is fully warmed up, or is it ok to drive normally from the start?

And do I need any extra precaution before turning the engine off, is the normal "use my brains" good enough?

[aaronjb]

I've only just got my oil gauge back from the manufacturers (it's a custom length mechanical capillary tube)

Slightly OT - but what made you go for a mechanical guage rather than an electronic one (which would have almost certainly been easier to fit)?

The only extra I'm doing is shortening the oil change to 3,333mile intervals.

Very accurate  s;) s;)  (Visions of Martin stopping on the side of the M4 to change the oil now  s;) s;)  )

I meant more along the lines of normal driving. If I start a turbocar, should I be extra careful not to create any boost before the engine is fully warmed up, or is it ok to drive normally from the start?

And do I need any extra precaution before turning the engine off, is the normal "use my brains" good enough

Obviously I don't drive a turbo '2, but I've had a few turbo cars in the past, and my take on this was along these lines;

It depends how long you expect your turbo to last (and engine internals, to a lesser extent).

Do you consider £1500ish expenditure for a turbo every 60,000miles or so reasonable, or do you want/expect it to last 120,000 miles?

If you really baby the car during warm-up (and by that I'd mean under 3000rpm, very light throttle until the Oil has got up to temperature - which is by no means related to the stock temp guage) and then give it a good amount (2miles or so) of cooldown drive, plus 30seconds or so of idling.. You might well get 120k out of your turbo as well as a 'normal' lifespan from the engine (probably 150k-200k from the 1zz I guess.. assuming your CATs don't eat it first  s:) s:)  ).

If you drive how I used to - which is just take it easy for the first 4-5miles, under 3-4000rpm, moderate accelleration (no WOT, but not driving-miss-daisy speeds), and then 30-60seconds of idle at the end of your drive (lets face it, the last few minutes of most peoples drive are parking in the office carpark or reversing into the garage, so you already have a few minutes of low-temperature runningt here), then you ought to see decent mileage from your turbo and engine. Certainly after several thousand miles of being driving like that by me, and 40k of unknown abuse by a former Japanese owner, the internals of the engine & turbos on my 300ZX looked unworn..

And I didn't always follow my own advice. Ahem. Cough. (Lets face it, there are times when you have to boot it to avoid being hit by someone!).

Ok, that's a really long winded way of saying - as long as you're sensible, you should be fine, IMHO. E&OE. etc.

[mph]

My opinion is that turbos aren't magic devices, uncommon or only for specialist drivers.

As with any other part of the combustion engine, they wear and need suitable lubrication.  Pamper them, they'll last ages (yawn); rag them, not so long. Be sensible and you'll get a sensible life out of them.

3,333 mile intervals
Alternatively written, two oil changes in between the standard 10,000 mile ones.   s:) s:)  

mechanical vs. electronic gauge
Accuracy. Electronic temperature probes don't tend to be that well calibrated, and then you should really have the ensure suitable resistance, length and insulation (heat & electromagnetic) of the signal cable back to the gauge. Cheap electronic gauges aren't great on their calibration either. Cheap mechanical gauges are therefore oft more accurate than cheap electronic gauges.
My two other gauges are also mechanical (boost & oil pressure) and feature a 270° sweep, whereas the electronic equivlients only have a 90° sweep - so it'll look prettier with them all the same.

[Anonymous]

has anyone seriously looked at the super charger option?  as this is ´on´ all the time it may be a friendlier option for normal driving?

[mph]

Knowing how complex the mk1 SC is, I wouldn't like it do it as a custom job myself. TTE says it quite possible and I believe them - but it's way more hassle, dropping the engine, changing the pulley system etc etc. My thinking is that you'd also be the first, and as such, won't have much in the way of others to draw support from. It was enough trouble fine-tuning my turbo, and that's with the most established kit on the market.

[Tem]

There has been some talk about fitting the TRD supercharger for 1ZZ to Spyder:
 m http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=9787 m