Japenese Car Show Charges!

[widermuller]

I am writing this with reference to recent comments raised about JAE 2009 rules and regulations over glass policy, etc.

Ok, so some of you are not happy! But what about the gate charges! 20 quid per person? And 25 on the day! Sorry but I think its a rip off!
I think its time to open the debate over 'charging' exibitors (ie you and I ) to attend such shows, sure if camping and toilets are provided a nominal fee for those, but remember! No cars = no show!


Having been a member of numerous classic car clubs back in the 80's and 90's the debate was thrashed out then between exibitors and show organisers about charges, there was at the time a 'backlash' against show organisers overcharging and some shows even became free! The classic car magazines were supporting this, as well as the body which represents classic car clubs (association).

Is there an association representing the interest of japenese car clubs? Can't say I've heard of one, maybe there should be?

Short history lesson..... Jae was started for classic japenese cars, ie datsun z's, early celica's , toyota crowns, suzuki sc 100 whizz kids, el al . To counter the 'sneering' attitude towards 'Japanese classic' from ordinary classic car shows/ enthusiasts ( a.k.a. bobble hat, flat cap MG enthusiast ). Origionally organised by the Datsun z club, and later organised The Toyota Enthusiasts Club (tec) of which I was a member, always held a Billing Aquadrome I attended in my St 182 Celica in '98, '99 and 2000 (winning best post 1980 car in the Celica in 2000) So I am quite aware of the 'stature' of the event. However it was run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts and not for commercial gain, my gripe back the was the charge into Billing as I was'nt interested in the attractions there! Which are not much! However the 'club' did pay for the pitch out of its funds. In 2001 it went commercial as the Toyota enthusiasts club tried to find other jap clubs to help out none came forward!! I did attend it in 2001 did not like!


                                         What you must realise is as the car gets older the options increase for 'showing' the car, and a season will get very expensive, when the roadster attains a classic status, it will open up doors to some shows, both indoor and out that are the 'pinnicle' of the classic car movement. I don't want to see anyone getting ripped off regardless of what they earn, and I'M NOT DOING THIS to upset the membership who have booked and paid to go to JAE 2009. I feel this needs to be 'aired'

Over to the membership.....

[Anonymous]

It's a fair point you have made, last year I did Tatton park with the DC club, it cost me £3.00 entry fee which was charged by the club for the two days of the show.

Rob.

[Anonymous]

Couldn't agree with you more, but given the huge cost of booking a showground and not being able to guarantee being able to cover that cost much less make a profit means that they need to charge a lot to give themselves a decent chance of breaking even. I look at it that £20 for the three days is good value if you're a car club member and can get something out of it, but £25 to walk around a field and look at a bunch of chavvy cars with bodykits stuck on them (which is the great majority of cars at JAE going on previous years) is extortionate.

[Anonymous]

That's one of the reasons I stopped going to TOTB, at £20 per person for a one day event with very little to see and rip off stall prices   s:? :? s:?

[widermuller]

Well, I think Tatton park is an example of a fair charge, hats off to the drivers club, again I attended the Chatham dockyard one, 8 quid is fair and reasonable,correct me if I'm wrong but entry to Chatham was 14 quid if you were going there as paying public to get in! A good saving! Its just from a personal note I thought it would have been a bigger show, even picking up European entrants, due to location.

[Ilogik]

That is one of the gripes i get, RWYB at santa pod is my main one that bugs me, you drive there, then you have to pay £10 entry fee, then £25 to run, surely if im going there to run my car for a rwyb day you should pay just the £25 and then additional passengers in the car pay entry.

[onion86]

That is one of the gripes i get, RWYB at santa pod is my main one that bugs me, you drive there, then you have to pay £10 entry fee, then £25 to run, surely if Im going there to run my car for a rwyb day you should pay just the £25 and then additional passengers in the car pay entry.

Yeah that was quite a big thing I picked up on when I went to RWYB before Christmas last year, seemed a bit ridiculous to me.

[Ilogik]

That is one of the gripes i get, RWYB at santa pod is my main one that bugs me, you drive there, then you have to pay £10 entry fee, then £25 to run, surely if Im going there to run my car for a rwyb day you should pay just the £25 and then additional passengers in the car pay entry.

Yeah that was quite a big thing I picked up on when I went to RWYB before Christmas last year, seemed a bit ridiculous to me.

Especially if the weather is shite, there is not a great deal to do there, and if im spending time in  a huge q, I don't really want to pay to use facilities that Im not using, fair enough £10 for a spectator, but even then its just a RYWB day not a big event.

[Wabbitkilla]

I think it's really a pain for the organisers too .... when you consider they need to find a venue, do the organising, get the public liability insurance, make sure all is Health and Safety approved. I'm not sure if they make a profit from JAE and i look at it more as going camping and enjoying the company of others with like minds and see some sights i wouldn't have seen on a normal weekend. £20 for nights nights camping ... not bad! £25 per person day entry .... hmmmm not so sure that'll fly personally   s:? :? s:?  

Consider this, i used to go to the BMF rally in Peterborough, the price for that got ridiculous too ... plus they under-estimated the ground required for the campers, they took away the games, they took away the members only day to get bargains from suppliers on the site. Basically as the BMF as an organisation got more commercial, the show shifted from being a "Rally" to being a "Profit making rip off of the members", the BMF's influence in the biking world has been done considerable harm and their ability to move opinion of the establishment has melted away. And this is a "show" where all the major manufacturers have stands and shops, and then some.

So the fact that there is no overall organisation representing the Japanese Marques is an advantage, the temptation to commercialisation isn't present to any great degree. £20per car / 2 people seems fairer to me, £10 at the gate too .... however if they then can't afford to put the event on.... well who's loss is that?

As is the common refrain ... if you think you can do it better, then you're quite welcome to try. I would commend you for going for it, i would probably come along if it was at the right time, in the right place, with hopefully the right weather.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[widermuller]

Wabbitkilla, the intention of my post is not to 'knock' the committee or destabilize it, I think its a fair and reasonable comment by a person in an ordinary job, paying the usual bills  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

                   All to often on here newbies get knocked, it happenend to me! Just coz I spelt everything in capitals, on my first post, and the second, which was the last for many months! which funnily enough was about jae! At the end of the day I'm a mechanical fitter not a computer wizzkid who knows all web protocall, PC'S are just like a screwdriver to me, a tool, not some kind of demi-god. Problem is knocking newbies is you don't know what skills and experiance they might be able to offer to further this club. Some I asssume  don't come back... I did!


                I've served on club commitee's (non net based) in the capacity of events organiser, and spares secretary so I know the pointy end, but i've no sympathies with organisers/suppliers, I want a good deal for members in which, I served.  3 days for 20 quid sounds a better deal anything less than that not, I would come to the jae if I felt costs were reasonable.


I agree, enthusiasts running shows is a risk, and I assume the reason this club does not hold its own event would be risk of poor turn out, and public liability insurance. Its not a question 'can I do better'  but: 'can I contribute skills and experiance I have to a group of people with the same interests.'

[Wabbitkilla]

Haha, i wasn't really suggesting anything like that about you ... your question i feel is valid and needs thought by the organisers.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

I think the entry fee assumes that people want to spend the whole weekend there and they'll be camping, and while i appreciate it's not always easy to come up with flexible fees i think there should be a sliding scale.

The reason given for the "all or nothing" entry is it would be dificult to police who is a day visitor who should be kicked out at the end of the day and who is a weekend stayer. And i can understand that reasoning from my experience with the BMF, they had the Memba Rally area where everyone parked their bikes and camped, then the show area where all the exhibitors and shops are, you have to have a special wrist band to get into the Memba Rally area. But that's where this falls down with JAE, the "Memba's" in our case are the exhibitors too so it wouldn't work. But then if someone turns up on saturday they can only stay one night, on sunday they're just there for the day. The JAE has their own forum and th ability to give feedback, so i guess we can use it.

I'm well aware that we're not all highly paid geeks, but i have to trust that the JAE team are covering their costs to run the event. If they could bring in some kind of sliding scale entry fee i'm sure it would make a lot of people very happy.

[philster_d]

yeah. i was thinking to take my car to Wings and Wheels at the weekend but £10 then another £10 for the passenger just to park in a field for a day seems stupid.

Phil

[Wabbitkilla]

Brings to mind my recent holiday in Scotland.

It seems that in Scotland most of the car parks out in the towns and countryside are free... yet in England everywhere you stop someone wants some money off you.   s:( s:(

[celmacmat]

My two pence worth on the subject...

WITH MY DIRECTOR FROM THE DRIVERS' CLUB HAT ON
We do attend a lot of shows during the year, some National and some Regional. As much as we can, we try to make the show for the people who display their car Free of Charge, the Club basicaly pay what it cost to have a stand / plot. We can do this because we are a well establish Club (since 1991) and their is a yearly membership fee to become a member.

AS the Club is a limited company we have public liability insurance and for some shows, only members are allowed to displey their car on the stand, as, as fully paying members of the club, they are cover by the insurance.

Some other shows like the Silverstone Classic are paying shows and by paying, all exhibitor are covered by the Silverstone Classic show insurance. So in theory, we can allow non-member of the club to displey their car on our stand, although we ask them to abide by the club rules and if we thing there is any non acceptable behaviour, then we will ask that person to leave. Although, Shows like the Silverstone Classic unfrotunately is a paying show but members usually get a discount.

The £3 charge at Tatton was only introduced a couple of year ago, mainly to contribute towards trophies for the Show & Shine Competition, the petrol for the lown mower and that sort of thing.

For MR2@25 we were also covered by the Dockyard Liability Cover hence why we opened the event to all MR2 Enthusiasts and not just DC members. We would like to do this more often and are looking into it on a show to show basis.

[celmacmat]

WITH MY SHOW ENTHUSIAST HAT ON
I agree that some show charge far too much to just visit and park your car on a field. I am not coming to JAE because I am unfortunately unemployed and skint, but if I was able to come, I would have made a weekend of it to make worth it. I would not have paid £25 just to visit for the day.

  s:D s:D

[widermuller]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

[philster_d]

we are spoiled in the club becuase our members organise and contribute so much for free.

Phil