MR2 value - on-going insurance

[markiii]

I would agree in once sense as you have a contract with Flux, who they use as teh underwriter shouldn't metter

however in practice I beleive you will have signed teh underwriters paperwork, giving you a contract with them

I'd take a screen dump of teh page with the note on it

and then threaten flux with going to teh ombudsmen

in my laymans mind I'd argue you have a case

if you don't already I'd get a valuation from Woodsport based on teh work they undertook and teh condition it was in before teh accident, and a quote for doing teh work again on another car

use that  and teh ombudsmen threat to beat them with

[WillsSayers]

I'm going to give Flux a call again and see if the next person I speak to agrees with me or not. Nothing - and I mean NOTHING in my paper work mentions the cover of modifications - lack of or otherwise. So I would have assumed from this (assumptions being the mother of all f**k ups as we all know) that what their website states is correct? I'll give them a call and find out!

[WillsSayers]

Right I've just given AF another dog'n'bone...........

Apparently if the car was damaged, they'd be looking to repair it, including the declared modifications. However the car has been written off as a Total Loss, which means apparently they only look at the vehicle "as a whole", and what it would be worth "with that engine in it" (the lass's words that I spoke to). So I'm not too sure what this means. I asked if I were to supply an advert for a car with the same engine as mine for sale, what would result. I was essentially told that by all means send the information on but there's no guarantee that it will affect what the payout will be. Not exactly confidence inspiring.....?

[Anonymous]

I'd probably be giving the ombudsman a call at this point before going any further. You may not get anywhere, but gotta be worth a shot methinks.

[enid_b]

I'd probably be giving the ombudsman a call at this point before going any further. You may not get anywhere, but gotta be worth a shot methinks.

+1

make them have it. i say this as i have just read the flux page about mods and how mod friendly they are.  they have to stick to that, otherwise there must be some kind of redress under the misleading advertising banner.

good luck.

[markiii]

Right I've just given AF another dog'n'bone...........

Apparently if the car was damaged, they'd be looking to repair it, including the declared modifications. However the car has been written off as a Total Loss, which means apparently they only look at the vehicle "as a whole", and what it would be worth "with that engine in it" (the lass's words that I spoke to). So I'm not too sure what this means. I asked if I were to supply an advert for a car with the same engine as mine for sale, what would result. I was essentially told that by all means send the information on but there's no guarantee that it will affect what the payout will be. Not exactly confidence inspiring.....?

contextually I see where they are coming from, and its not an unreasonable position IF and its a huge fuck off IF

they made this clear to you

which it seems they haven't

[Mad Matt]

I think you may have to send them the ad (or better ads) and see what they say before going to the ombudsman. Otherwise he'll just say that you haven't given them a reasonable chance to settle the matter.

Well that's my feeling, but I haven't dealt with UK insurance in this millennium  :-) :-) :-)

[stargazer30]

Wills, not wanting to go off topic here but i just got royally screwed over by Sky Insurance on my turbo conversion (they are wanting to up the additional premium from the origonal quoted £150 to £390   s:shock: :shock: s:shock: )  So I have just rung Adrian Flux to get a quote to take out a new policy with them and specifically asked about cover on modes, the adviser stated AF cover mods "like for like" and basically said same as markiii send in details of the cost of the mods etc..)  I think you have a case.  Oh my sky policy doesn't mention mods either they seem to avoid putting this in writing!

[WillsSayers]

I think my last ditch attempt before doing the ombudsman thing (never done anything like that before so it's a bit daunting!) will be to send Nigel's old advert to them and see what they say to that. I'll mention the whole like-for-like cover stated by Adrian Flux along side the advert and see what they get back to me with. Is it worth throwing mention of the ombudsman in there for dramatic effect, or shall I leave that out in case it seems a tad aggressive?

Cheers for the advice yet again and sorry for the late reply. Was the girlfriend's birthday and was frankly nice to not think about any of this for a long weekend!  s:D s:D

[rypt]

I'd mention the ombudsman, not as a threat so much but along the lines of "I'll be contacting the financial ombudsman seeking clarification on whether the way you have handled my claim is in line with the advertised wording for the policy"

[JiMR2]

Hey Stargazer - had you not completed the mod listing form from Sky? I only ask as i've taken out insurance with sky in the last week!? Pretty sure the form states they cover like for like on mods...? Understand your pain at the increase though mate!  s:( s:(

I'll mention the whole like-for-like cover stated by Adrian Flux along side the advert and see what they get back to me with. Is it worth throwing mention of the ombudsman in there for dramatic effect, or shall I leave that out in case it seems a tad aggressive?

Hmm, I'd maybe speak with "Joe Bloggs" and run it past them, see where you get - you may be surprised (fingers crossed). If that leaves you less than satisfied I'd ask to speak with their supervisor and then if still no luck and no satisfactory response Id consider mentioning the ombudsman... Im sure that if you explain to them why your unsatisifed and confused with their response re: lack of like-for-like cover despite policy; I imagine they'll appreciate why you feel a call to the Ombudsman... Hopefully it wont get to that stage though!

[OlberJ]

Wills, they will be going on what they can find for an Mr2 of your age. Unfortunately there's only ever been about 2 V6 roadsters up for sale ever. That means they have next to nothing to go on.

Agreed value is the one thing you want for these cars because if they are written off then you're getting that back (90% of the time) if it ain't written off then they repiar the mods etc.

I wouldn't look at it as Highway trying to screw you over, they simply need a nudge in the right direction with evidence what the car is worth.

Which brings in a good point, what IS a V6 roadster worth?

[WillsSayers]

Well if market value of my MR2 is £4,500 and the invoice I have from Woodsport lists Parts (including no labour) as totalling £2,130, then in my mind £6,630 should be fair?

[ChrisGB]

The anount it will cost to put you back in an identical car to the one you declared to the insurance company would be my target figure.

Chris

[OlberJ]

Well if market value of my MR2 is £4,500 and the invoice I have from Woodsport lists Parts (including no labour) as totalling £2,130, then in my mind £6,630 should be fair?

That's the sensible way to look at it, so yep, i'd be aiming for that.

[WillsSayers]

All,

This is what I'm planning to send back to them. Any thoughts?

To Whom It May Concern:

In regards to my claim on reference 9000 666 1337 (not the actual number!), I would like to state that I respectfully reject the second offer of £4,500 as a settlement for my car as a Total Loss.

Whilst the offer is acceptable for a replacement standard MR2 Roadster, it fails to take the declared modifications in to account. The important ones being the engine conversion and aftermarket alloy wheels. I would like to stress at this point that all modified insurance policies taken out through Adrian Flux (and thus yourselves) incorporates like-for-like cover for modifications as standard.

The aftermarket wheels are 16" OZ Michelangelo 8's, which I can only source online for £677 including tyres, and as such I would imagine the actual alloys having a value of approximately £500.

Regarding the engine conversion, I have previously sent correspondence including the invoice for the work carried out. I have been previously told that it is only the total of the car's value and the parts that is covered by the like-for-like cover. If this is the case, then the parts alone required for the conversion amount to £2,130. I would expect to see this as a minimum on top of the valuation of £4,500 as market value for a standard Roadster. However, I am of the opinion that like-for-like cover should extend to getting an identical car to the one I had declared back on the road. Although I am happy to contact the financial ombudsman to seek clarification as to what level of financial reimbursement I am entitled to in line with the advertised wording of the policy.

I have included as much information in this document as I can, including a copy of the afore mentioned website selling the same aftermarket wheels as declared on my car, as well as the invoice sent in my original rejection letter last month.

Regards,

Captain Awesome

[edit]
This is the site mentioned:
http://www.motorspeed.com/store_main.asp?int_catalog_id=1&int_category_id=0&int_subcategory_id=0&int_page=24&int_product_id=3416
[/edit]

[StuM]

Sounds reasonable to me Wills.

The only thing that I would say is that if the wheels are damaged and need replacement, presumably the cost of wheels that they would use (if replacing parts/fixing) would be the cost of buying new OEM alloys from Toyota.  They might argue therefore that the £4500 offer includes like-for-like estimate on wheels if the Oz wheels are worth no more than the Toyota ones.

I would also make sure I screen print the AF website - the bit about the mods cover - because it would not be unheard of for them to amend the website wording in light of something like this and perhaps deny that it ever said anything else!   s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

Out of interest, in the box that states 'value of vehicle' on your original application, what did you put?

There are many factors that they will use when assessing 'market value'.  It becomes very hit and miss with a specialist car without a declared value policy.  For example, they might look at sold prices, rather than advertised ones.  As an engine swap car is so specialist, they are never going to be 'worth' the cost that went into them.. that said, if the cover is like-for-like, then they surely can't argue that V6 --> 1ZZ is like-for-like.

Good luck with it.

Stu

[WillsSayers]

Well truth be told I'm not terribly bothered about the wheels!
I've saved a screenshot as a backup also......!

As for what I valued the car at........ I accept I shot myself in the foot slightly for this and actually under-valued the car. What that means though I have no idea. Someone's already mentioned that they have no obligation to offer more than the amount I valued it for. However, when I was asked the question (policy was made over the phone), the question was merely "What do you feel the value of the car is?", I then asked for further clarification as to whether this meant the value of the car, or after the modifications were done. The person I spoke to then told me it was for the standard car. I have never been asked what I feel – or to prove the value of the car post modifications.

I can't see how much bearing the question has in a real world settlement, as market value can go up or down; I think the early MR2 Roadster's have about hit rock bottom for depreciation and they can't be expected to go up or down apart from the summer/winter variation. As we're hitting summer, I can confidently argue that the market has gone up for convertibles.

[loadswine]

Looks like a sensible letter to me Wills. Not too pushy, but getting your case across just firmly enough imho.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[WillsSayers]

Well POW, it's been fired. Let's see what they decide on.

Probably, £4.5k, take it or f**k off!

[stargazer30]

Hey Stargazer - had you not completed the mod listing form from Sky? I only ask as i've taken out insurance with sky in the last week!? Pretty sure the form states they cover like for like on mods...? Understand your pain at the increase though mate!  s:( s:(

Nope in my case I'd taken insurance with them with some basic mods, exhaust/chip.  Sky gave a good service and price.  It went pear shaped when I did the turbo conversion. Before I decided to do it I did the sensible thing and rang sky to see how much they'd sting me for.  I gave them new BHP of the car, the new torque output and the value of the kit told them it was a turbo kit conversion and asked for a quote.  Came back at a reasonable £146 additional premium on top of what I already paid.  However once I actually got the conversion done and I rang them to cover it they more than doubled that price! (£390)  Basically I made the mistake of assuming the torque/bhp/cost were the key premium affecting factors.  It doesn't work that way, once I declared all the "bits" in the kit like ie the injectors and induction kit, even though they all contribute to the same BHP/Torque I'd already stated it upped the premium!   So basically a 200bhp turbo MR2 costs an extra £146 but the same turbo MR2 with the same BHP costs a hell of a lot more if the kit includes an induction and injectors - WTF?

Anyway after some arguing and threats of leaving them we met in the middle so it got sorted.  Grumble Rant over....

[OlberJ]

Vehicle value means pretty much fuck all really, unless it's an agreed value.

It's only used to get the car into a bracket. say 0-£,5000 £5,000-£100,000 etc.

[Mike68]

I know it is a guide but it is still an agreement. They ask how much it is worht, you tell them and they agree to insure it. Can't really see why that's not an agreement. It is normally a guide but the quote is arranged taking that figure into account. They would normally go by market value and in this case, it's hard to put a vlaue on something quite rare. Hopefully you'll get what you want Will, keep at them and put them in a situation they cannot argue with and they normally back down.

[OlberJ]

Yep, you got it right, it goes on book value.

Seriously, you could say it's worth £5k or £50k and it wouldn't matter unless it's an agreed value.

Trust me, i sold and underwrote insurance for 6 years (Don't hate me).

[DAN@ADRIAN FLUX]

Hi,

I work for Adrian Flux and I'm on a majority of Forums as a point of contact for anyone that has any problems or Questions regards their Insurance through Adrian Flux.

I'm sorry to hear you have been having problems with your Policy with us.

If you would like me to look into it for you please PM me your Name and Postcode or your Client Ref and I shall arrange a callback for you.

Regards,
Dan.