Insurance...

[JiMR2]

Hey all,

Just got off the phone to the insurance company (Virgin) after fitting a new HU to the car. Am covered up to a grand on audio gear so thats cool.

I then just questioned as to whether or not i had to tell them about the sides/front/rear spats that are on the car. Dont want to risk anything, obviously. I explained that i believed that they were fitted from new as a factory optional extra, same as the leather seats. She then told me that due to my age, 24, they could no longer cover my car as it has a body kit...   s:? :? s:?  

Now whats the deal here, she said if the stuff was fitted from new then it would be ok - but if it was fitted retrospectively then id be voided.

Not having the car from new i dont know if the stuff was on there from new (TTE exhaust, style bar, skirts/spats) The front spats i had done this week - so fair game on that point. But as the "bodykit" seats etc "were" opitional extras - can it just be said that they were fitted out of the factory, despite it being fitted retrospectively???

I'm not trying to get around the insurance or anything like that - will just have to change if need be. When taking out the policy online it only asked if there were any modifications done to the vehicle that improved the speed/acceleration. To which the answer was no. And i thought no more of it.

Like i say im not trying to get around any one or find any loop holes, just  want to work out where it is i stand with all this.

Naievty has prevailed over me here I'm afraid.

Any advice or opinions would be greatly appreciated - thanks guys!

Jim

[Mike68]

The style bar, exhaust, skirts and spats are after market on your car so going by what you're saying... you're not insued against your own loss but they would pay out for a 3rd party claim.

You're boasting a 15bhp increase so why do you expect to be covered at the same premium? With insurance don't play games with them, you know the parts are afer market (unless it's one of the last 300) so why risk trying to plea ignorant? If you can afford to risk losing the cost of replacing your car should a you need to claim then carry on, if you can't afford to throw the cost of replacing the car then fess up and change insurance companies. Try Sky, they are very good.

Sorry to be blunt but if an insurance company can get out of paying then they will.

[Anonymous]

Technically anything not on a bog-standard car is a mod, so that includes air con and a hardtop. Whether the individual insurer wants to charge extra for them is up to them, but you should always tell them about everything and let them make the call. If they do charge you extra then take your business elsewhere.

[muffdan]

get yourself to a specialist insurer who deals with mods all the time:

Adrian Flux
A-plan
Sky Insurance

[Mike68]

Technically anything not on a bog-standard car is a mod, so that includes air con and a hardtop.

That's not completely true, if air con is manufacturers spec then it's covered that includes (if was bought with the car from new) the hard top.  the TF or FT 300 (can't remember which way round the letters are) then the TTE exhaust is covered as it's standard equipment from new as are the seats. You do not have to list standard equipment from new but any modifications need to be listed and optional extras from new should be mentioned but stated they were optional from new to the insurance company.

[muffdan]

I believe this will clear it up:

http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23520&p=293041#p293041

To try and clarify this simply.

Factory options are NOT regarded as modifications.

Factory fitted options do however need to be disclosed to your insurer for the very reason that they will cost extra money to replace in the event of an accident.  As long as the everything is disclosed at the quotation stage everything should be safe.
Declaring factory fitted options will not effect the price of the insurance premium.

regards

Ollie
Sky Insurance

[rypt]

You do NOT have to disclose any more than is asked, if an insurer never asks you whether the car has any factory fitted options then you do not have to disclose it technically, it is not up to you to be pro-active and tell them everything, it is for them to ask the correct questions.

[Mike68]

You do NOT have to disclose any more than is asked, if an insurer never asks you whether the car has any factory fitted options then you do not have to disclose it technically, it is not up to you to be pro-active and tell them everything, it is for them to ask the correct questions.

I'm sorry but that is misleading and false. It is up to you to tell them. If you do not tell them about any modification and they have not asked then it's up to you to tell them, they have no psychic ability. As already stated and highlighted by MuffDan from an insurance company, it's best to even own up to any optional extras.

[rypt]

You do NOT have to disclose any more than is asked, if an insurer never asks you whether the car has any factory fitted options then you do not have to disclose it technically, it is not up to you to be pro-active and tell them everything, it is for them to ask the correct questions.

I'm sorry but that is misleading and false. It is up to you to tell them. If you do not tell them about any modification and they have not asked then it's up to you to tell them, they have no psychic ability. As already stated and highlighted by MuffDan from an insurance company, it's best to even own up to any optional extras.

Not misleading in anyway, you are under no legal obligation to tell the insurance company anything more than what they ask for as you have no way of knowing what it is that they need to know.

For instance, do I need to tell my insurance company that I was given a verbal warning by the police for speeding, after all a verbal warning often is no different to a speeding ticket from a speedcamera (just the police officer used their discretion) - yet one counts towards insurance and the other one doesn't?
This is exactly why from the legal standpoint you do not have to be pro-active, as you as a consumer are not in a position to know what information is needed.

EDIT: The Financial Ombudsman has some related information on this

we would expect the firm to ask clear questions designed to obtain the information it requires

[Liz]

.....after all a verbal warning often is no different to a speeding ticket from a speedcamera

You don't get endorsements on your licence for a ticking off - of course it is different....mad comment!

[Mike68]

You do NOT have to disclose any more than is asked, if an insurer never asks you whether the car has any factory fitted options then you do not have to disclose it technically, it is not up to you to be pro-active and tell them everything, it is for them to ask the correct questions.

I'm sorry but that is misleading and false. It is up to you to tell them. If you do not tell them about any modification and they have not asked then it's up to you to tell them, they have no psychic ability. As already stated and highlighted by MuffDan from an insurance company, it's best to even own up to any optional extras.

Not misleading in anyway, you are under no legal obligation to tell the insurance company anything more than what they ask for as you have no way of knowing what it is that they need to know.

For instance, do I need to tell my insurance company that I was given a verbal warning by the police for speeding, after all a verbal warning often is no different to a speeding ticket from a speedcamera (just the police officer used their discretion) - yet one counts towards insurance and the other one doesn't?
This is exactly why from the legal standpoint you do not have to be pro-active, as you as a consumer are not in a position to know what information is needed.

Are you serious? April 1st has long gone! If you have not delcared everything then they will assume it's a standard car, by advising anything different from that is dodgy ground. If you want to run the gauntlet then fair play to you but it's not right to advise what you have, simple as.

As for your speeding comment, if I can expand on Liz's comment... a ticking off is not a conviction and this is what they ask for.

[rypt]

.....after all a verbal warning often is no different to a speeding ticket from a speedcamera

You don't get endorsements on your licence for a ticking off - of course it is different....mad comment!

The difference is only in the endorsement part, there is no difference in the act that you have committed which is the point I was getting at.
The fact that you have no points but lot's of warnings is no different than having points but no warnings, both show that you are likely to go above the speedlimit.

Yet none of you disclose warnings to insurance companies because they never ask for it.
Which is what I'm getting at, from the legal standpoint you only ever have to answer the questions asked and are not expected to guess what else the insurance company need to know.

Are you serious? Apri, 1st has long gone! If you have not delcared everything then they will assume it's a standard car, by advising anything different from that is dodgy ground. If you want to run the gauntlet then fair play to you but it's not right to advise what you have, simple as.

If it is factory fitted then it is "standard".

[Anonymous]

after all a verbal warning often is no different to a speeding ticket from a speedcamera

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[rypt]

In fact, there is no such thing as "standard" fit for most cars now anyway as now there are so many configuration options with many makes you can have almost any combo you want, so unless you are suggesting calling poverty/base spec as standard it won't work.

[Mike68]

The difference is only in the endorsement part, there is no difference in the act that you have committed which is the point I was getting at.
The fact that you have no points but lot's of warnings is no different than having points but no warnings, both show that you are likely to go above the speedlimit.

Warnings are as they are, warnings. Points are convictions.

My accord has a rear spoiler as an optional extra from new and is declared, there's no extra to pay and peace of mind that the car is covered is worth every penny I'm not paying by declaring the spoiler.

[rypt]

The difference is only in the endorsement part, there is no difference in the act that you have committed which is the point I was getting at.
The fact that you have no points but lot's of warnings is no different than having points but no warnings, both show that you are likely to go above the speedlimit.

Warnings are as they are, warnings. Points are convictions.

Insurance companies do not ask for SP30s solely due to them being convictions, but also because each type of conviction carries a different risk.
If you have SP30s it means you are more likely to travel at a speed in excess of the limit, and since in the eyes of the law/insurance companies the limit is set at such a value as travelling above it likely to cause a risk it means that you pose a greater risk to the insurance company. In that regard a verbal warning for speeding is no different, as it shows that you travel in excess of the limit, and thus travel in a territory considered to increase the risk.


EDIT:

With regard to "modifications", the semi-legal standpoint on this is that a modification is anything fitted after first registration of the vehicle

[Mike68]

In fact, there is no such thing as "standard" fit for most cars now anyway as now there are so many configuration options with many makes you can have almost any combo you want, so unless you are suggesting calling poverty/base spec as standard it won't work.


Insurance companies do not ask for SP30s solely due to them being convictions, but also because each type of conviction carries a different risk.
If you have SP30s it means you are more likely to travel at a speed in excess of the limit, and since in the eyes of the law/insurance companies the limit is set at such a value as travelling above it likely to cause a risk it means that you pose a greater risk to the insurance company. In that regard a verbal warning for speeding is no different, as it shows that you travel in excess of the limit, and thus travel in a territory considered to increase the risk.

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beyond belief and am not going to respond any more that I have as I can't take you seriously. These two quotes beyond belief.

For the op best to play it safe and declare everything and sorry if this topic jumped onto the nearest tangent and had a little journey of irrellevance even more so with the edit, a modification is anything that is not standard manufacturers equipment none of this semi-legal rubbish, end of.

[rypt]

You are entitled to your view as I'm entitled to mine, which has some basis in financial ombudsman rulings and so on

[Mike68]

Car Insurance Modifications - Should I Declare Them?
Yes, yes, yes and yes!!! Car modifications should always be declared even if it costs extra. If they are not declared, then in the event of a claim your insurance policy could be voided which will lead to all sorts of problems. If you have a heavily modified car it is recommended that you get insured with an insurance specialist that deals with modified cars.

How much does it Cost to Declare Car Insurance Mods?
The cost for different car modifications varies massively between insurance companies. Before purchasing a modification we recommend you check with your insurance company how much it will cost. It is also worth noting that in most cases in the event of a claim the modified part will only be replaced by the standard part.

Why does it Cost Extra to Insure a Modified Car?
There are two main reasons why mods cost extra on insurance policies. Modifications tend to fall into two categories, each category is explained below and why it increases the premium.

Performance Modifications such as suspension, engine tuning, filters, exhausts and induction kits put up your insurance as they make the car faster which means you are more likely to crash.
Aesthetic Modifications such as body kits, tints and spoilers increase your premium as it makes your car more attractive to thieves and vandals.
What do Insurance Companies class as a Modification?


99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth noting that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.

[rypt]

What do Insurance Companies class as a Modification?
99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth nothing that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.

That entirely depends on what is asked in the form when you sign up, many will simply say modifications and any extra documents linked to will (at most if they even mention modifications) simply state "from standard spec". Standard spec is open to interpretation, but is generally taken as "after 1st registration".
Factory fitted extras is a very hard way to define, as certain makers and cars have an almost infinite number of combinations so unless you call poverty spec as standard spec it won't work.

[Mike68]

 s:roll: :roll: s:roll:  

 m http://www.carinsuranceexplained.com/ca ... ations.htm m

[muffdan]

I see the point rypt is making  s:) s:)

Both a warning for speeding, and a speed camera penalty are two different reactions to the same offense. Speeding. One of these reactions results in an insurance premium hike, the other doesn't. The only reason for that is because the insurance companies don't ask if you have received any warnings.

So that makes sense and is a fair point. Same crime, different punishments.

From that, there is the point that 'who knows what the insurance companies want to know'? That's a fair point too. The reason we know convictions have to be declared and warnings don't is because the insurers ask us what convictions we have and they don't ask about what police warnings we've had. If they don't ask, how are we to know it invalidates our policy?

Therefore, if your insurance company doesn't ask you about any convictions you've got and issue you a policy, its fully valid regardless what convictions you have. Take a side step to modifications. If they don't ask about modifications, the policy is valid. It is not up to Mr Smith to know what the insurers want to know about him. It is the requirement of the insurance company to collect that relevant information about him.

But none of this matters because when was the last time you got an insurance quote and they didn't ask about modifications, convictions, claims etc. Same old questions over and over.

The real question is what classifies as a modification. I think Ollie's quote above answers that.

Food for thought: You buy a second hand car. How do you know what's standard and what's a factory option and therefore what you should mention to your insurance company?!

[aaronjb]

Food for thought: You buy a second hand car. How do you know what's standard and what's a factory option and therefore what you should mention to your insurance company?!

I (and I'm guessing a lot of people) know someone who had insurance voided (after an accident) for not declaring something which she thought was standard fitment in precisely that situation.  It wasn't standard fitment, and the insurance company politely told her that she'd be getting the grand total of £0.

[muffdan]

That is criminal in my view, but what can you do?

[rypt]

Food for thought: You buy a second hand car. How do you know what's standard and what's a factory option and therefore what you should mention to your insurance company?!

I (and I'm guessing a lot of people) know someone who had insurance voided (after an accident) for not declaring something which she thought was standard fitment in precisely that situation.  It wasn't standard fitment, and the insurance company politely told her that she'd be getting the grand total of £0.

The Financial Ombudsman would probably overturn such decisions
 m http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/p ... losure.htm m

As "modification" is a fairly general question as it is