Insurance...

[mrzwei]

I noticed on a couple of recent renewals that there is a 'don't know' option box in terms of modifications.

[robsonic]

Food for thought: You buy a second hand car. How do you know what's standard and what's a factory option and therefore what you should mention to your insurance company?!

Is that not what the OP was asking?

I could have had my aygo with lowered springs and a spoiler when i bought it new - with the same insurance quote as without. If i add the same factory options now my premium goes up because its 'modified' - like it has with my '2'. Is that fair? Probably not, but i pay it all the same.

I guess you either declare everything, or save some cash against the risk of having to make a claim and it being refused (and all the legal implications of that)
Only you can decide if that risk is worth it.

[Mike68]

Food for thought: You buy a second hand car. How do you know what's standard and what's a factory option and therefore what you should mention to your insurance company?!

I (and I'm guessing a lot of people) know someone who had insurance voided (after an accident) for not declaring something which she thought was standard fitment in precisely that situation.  It wasn't standard fitment, and the insurance company politely told her that she'd be getting the grand total of £0.

The Financial Ombudsman would probably overturn such decisions
 m http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/p ... losure.htm m

As "modification" is a fairly general question as it is

From the ombudsman website:

'clearly reckless' non-disclosure
We are likely to conclude that non-disclosure is 'clearly reckless' if a policyholder appears not to have had any regard for accuracy when completing the proposal form. Typically, in such cases, the matters the policyholder failed to disclose will be of significance, and will have been well-known by the policyholder. We will probably have found it difficult to believe that the policyholder could simply have overlooked these matters. But we will not have found sufficient grounds to conclude that the non-disclosure was deliberate.

In such cases, we consider that the firm can decline to meet the claim and can cancel the policy from its start date. The firm should normally return the premiums paid. It can also seek to recover whatever it may have paid the policyholder in relation to previous claims made under the policy.





Probably would not over turn it going by the website that you gave a link for. It would be up to the owner of the car to know what is standard and options on a car even more so if it's new. There is too much information about car specs in magazines, online and from car dealers to even attempt ignorance even for a 2nd hand car.

The only reason I have persued this is I've seen similar instances (even with minor mods, say a GLX escort spoiler on a popular escort purely as a hyperthetical example but models may not be accurate) on tv and know of someone who had a minor mod and in all cases the insurance company did not pay out.

I would hate to think any of us on here face the same thing, that's all. Not trying one upmanship or trying to nab the last word.


edit:
The main thing to remember, this is from many solicitor web sites relating to car modifications goes along these lines:
"unfortunately the old saying of "ignorance of the law is no defence" still applies."

[rypt]

It would be up to the owner of the car to know what is standard and options on a car even more so if it's new. There is too much information about car specs in magazines, online and from car dealers to even attempt ignorance even for a 2nd hand car.

No it wouldn't really

[philster_d]

I would declare all significant mods. Maybe not the odd grill or wind deflector but significant mods. Suspension, wheels, handling mods, power mods, appearance mods like bodywork and spoilers that all affect the apeal to theives.

Better to bore the person on the phone listing everything and they say, no dont worry about that little bit of plastic. Than deliberately omitt potentialy significant things.

Take a little self responsibility instead of relying on and blaming everyone else.

"you didnt ask if I put a v12 ferrari engine in it?" thats just silly.

[JiMR2]

Thanks for all the posts guys.

You're boasting a 15bhp increase

Sorry, that was a silly in my sig (smiley face + sunburn = 15bhp) Last i checked it didnt  s:) s:)  will try again this summer mind!   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:  

The following comments plus the excerpt Muffdan posted from Ollie has cleared any confusion up for me i think...

With regard to "modifications", the semi-legal standpoint on this is that a modification is anything fitted after first registration of the vehicle

99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth noting that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.

I'll be speaking with Virgin tomorrow to cancel and with Sky/AFlux to take out a policy... needless to say the car wont be moving from the drive till this is sorted n all in writing...  s:( s:(

Again - thanks very much guys, really appreciate it!!!!

[Mike68]

I get what your sig is getting at now   s:oops: :oops: s:oops:    hope you get the insurance all sorted out   s:D s:D

[Anonymous]

99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth noting that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.

DING DING

Just the point I originally made.

[rypt]

99% of insurance companies will class any modification to a car after it has been manufactured as a modification. It is worth noting that some insurance companies will class factory fitted extras as modifications.

DING DING

Just the point I originally made.

Define "manufactured", surely that means first registration, in which case factory options are pre-first registration and dealer fit after registration

[Mike68]

PMSL... now you're just mucking about. I can't take you seriously any more, I'm doubting you made serious comments earlier now and I assume you are just after an arguement/debate or just trying to antagonise.

[Mike68]

OK just to clarify...
I have spoken to Sky insurance and they stated that they would need to know about factory fitted options, say a TTE exhaust option for arguement sake, they would not load the policy for that but if you did not declare it as a factory option it may cause problems later if a claim is made. For peace of mind they said declare all mods and advise them of factory options. If it's not detailed then it's not covered, simple as.

Modifications after manufacture ie when the car leaves the factory, then these are considered to be modifications and not optional extras. This can be done before registration thats why it is stated 'as manufactured' and not registered for example fitting coilovers before registering the car, the registration document would remain the same but the car is modded.

[Anonymous]

Just tell them everything all the time. What have you got to lose?

[muffdan]

Just tell them everything all the time. What have you got to lose?

agreed.

[rypt]

What have you got to lose?

Having to spend half my life arguing with the over-the-phone people to explain what stuff is

[Anonymous]

E-mail   s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:

[rypt]

E-mail   s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen:

Only really works with specialist brokers though, which is fine and dandy for fun cars, but a pain for your everyday A-B motoring car

[Anonymous]

But then you wouldn't be putting loads of mods on your everyday A-B car though  s;) s;)

[skyinsurance]

You do NOT have to disclose any more than is asked, if an insurer never asks you whether the car has any factory fitted options then you do not have to disclose it technically, it is not up to you to be pro-active and tell them everything, it is for them to ask the correct questions.

Wrong and pretty duff advice to give out I'm afraid.  It is down to you, not the insurer.  It is also down to you to check the paperwork and make sure your car is insured correctly.  
Example:  I am insuring my Jap import Mk1 Mr2 supercharger.  I phone the insurer, they ask for the registration number, the registration number has been recorded against a UK spec NA (non supercharged) Mr2.  Insurer asks, is that an Mr2, I answer yes.  Insure the car, and think happy days.  When the paperwork comes through, it is insured as an NA Mr2 (NON IMPORT).   I have a crash and go to make a claim, insurer (rightly) refuses to pay out as they were unaware it was an imporrted supercharger.

[muffdan]

As it happens, my insurance expires on Wednesday and I've just updated a word doc I keep with all my MODs. I update my insurers as I go, but every renewal, or come quote time, I email this list through to them. Everyone that's prepared to quote me accepts the email no problem, and I have piece of mind knowing I have records of the Mods I've declared to them. Not much work required updating the list as I go either.

[philster_d]

Hi Ollie,

Thanks for popping over and sharing your knowledge.

Phil

[rypt]

You do NOT have to disclose any more than is asked, if an insurer never asks you whether the car has any factory fitted options then you do not have to disclose it technically, it is not up to you to be pro-active and tell them everything, it is for them to ask the correct questions.

Wrong and pretty duff advice to give out I'm afraid.  It is down to you, not the insurer.  It is also down to you to check the paperwork and make sure your car is insured correctly.  
Example:  I am insuring my Jap import Mk1 Mr2 supercharger.  I phone the insurer, they ask for the registration number, the registration number has been recorded against a UK spec NA (non supercharged) Mr2.  Insurer asks, is that an Mr2, I answer yes.  Insure the car, and think happy days.  When the paperwork comes through, it is insured as an NA Mr2 (NON IMPORT).   I have a crash and go to make a claim, insurer (rightly) refuses to pay out as they were unaware it was an imporrted supercharger.

You are talking about a mis-registered car though, which is the current registered keepers responsibility to ensure it is correct.
So you are talking about oranges when we are talking about apples.

If all the car paperwork is 100% correct the Financial Ombudsman works on the principle that the owner has made a best effort to tell the truth, and has answered all the questions correctly.
If the insurance company fails to ask a question, it is not for me to know that they should be told this. As mentioned before, we do not tell insurance companies about police warnings for speeding despite the action being the same as the one that gives you an SP30 from a speedcamera.

EDIT:
The real issue is whether at time of buying insurance it states that you need to declare factory options and not just "modifications"

[Anonymous]

They ask you to disclose anything which may increase the risk to them, which is a deliberately generic term. Changing the brake pads for better ones would come under modifications, but having a 911 will full factory fitted options will make the car more desirable and therefore increase the risk to the insurer.

[rypt]

They ask you to disclose anything which may increase the risk to them, which is a deliberately generic term.

And again, Financial Ombudsman does not place much weight on "deliberately generic questions", and it is not for me to know what increases the risk to them.

EDIT: Anyway, I'm done with this discussion

[JiMR2]

Update:-

Just got off the phone with Danny @ Sky Insurance.

Full comp insurance, ALL mods declared including AC/Leather seats + £500 ICE cover

£601

Covered from 2pm today.

My Virgin policy:- Full comp, NO mods (through naivety) - taken out last July

£760

They cancelled on me immediately.

Lesson learned... Should've tried Sky Insurance in the first place.

Again, MASSIVE thanks to every one who posted and offered advice/fact/opinions. I know theres been a difference in view points but now i know that I'm insured with EVERY THING covered, i am a MUCH happier person. Once all the paperwork is through the roof will be coming off and the car will be being enjoyed once more!

Peace of mind is priceless i guess   s:) s:)

[muffdan]

Good work!