New and not yet bought one...

Don of Croy · February 16, 2011, 14:26

Dom,

Just perused your website - very nice!

Please hurry and buy a good MR2 - then perhaps you can start producing some pictures of this modern masterpiece! I'm sure there are more than a few here who would consider a commission?

Thought your prices - on your website - were very reasonable, and am tempted by a couple...do you exhibit at RIAT?

Sorry to go off topic.

Anonymous · February 16, 2011, 15:32

Mike, thanks for the offer, I'll PM you with my email if you could send more info. A car with a known problem is better than finding a problem later, although I'd much rather not have any problems at all...

Don, you're forgiven for going off topic, and thanks very much for the kind words. Yes, I'm always up for a comission and have been thinking of doing cars for a while actually. No, not exhibited at RIAT but have at a few other places. If you are interested in any of the pieces, just let me know, I'd be more than happy to send you more info/better images etc.

Ok, back on topic now, I've decided I really like the car in black, and again, ideally with a hardtop, so what do yuo guys think of this one:

http://motors.thisissouthwales.co.uk/car-details.lml?car_id=20986676

Mike_V · February 16, 2011, 16:57

Car looks ok although I notice that there is no write up regarding the condition of the car, service history etc, etc. If you're interested in this car then you need to be armed with and ask all of the relevant questions.

Anonymous · February 16, 2011, 17:35

Quote from: "michaelasaunders"Hi,
I suspect, any car you buy that is not a 2003 and above, could have or develop oval bore symptons and be in a condition worse then mine. So at least you know what you are buying here.

Mike

What makes you suspect that?
There are no know figures for oval bore syndrome/pre cat failure that i am aware of. Yet you seem to be suggesting that all pre face lift cars suffer from it, or will at some point.

Mike_V · February 16, 2011, 17:45

QuoteWhat makes you suspect that?
There are no know figures for oval bore syndrome/pre cat failure that i am aware of. Yet you seem to be suggesting that all pre face lift cars suffer from it, or will at some point.

I second that, i've done 5000 miles in mine and not had to top up with oil yet (touching large anounts of timber !!!)

Anonymous · February 16, 2011, 18:48

Afternoon and welcome,

I have had my car about 5 months now and I am still really enjoying it, I don't have a hardtop and have not really found this to be a problem, car has been snug and watertight all winter, and the heater is volcanic so no problems keeping warm with the top up or down. I was offered the a hardtop a month or so ago and turned it down because I just could not see myself using it; I have had a lot of convertibles and like to have the roof off whenever its reasonable.

Oval bore is a problem in these cars, and without doubt there are people who have suffered with it, but I think that casually reading MR2 forums can make the problem seem much worse than it is. If you take the right precautions; take the precats out and use the best oil you can afford you should be able to sidestep the issue. Bear in mind that the same engine powers a large number of avensis minicabs that run to massive mileages.

I have been lucky, my car is on 90k, and is using about a litre every 950 miles, which I think is ok. And in 5000 miles I have had to grease a steering joint and replace two bushes in the front suspension, on a 90k car that's a great record. You should not assume that all early cars have oval bore.

MSaunders car is well worth a look, it's a good price for a car with the hardtop and it's on the right tyres ( very important), even if it needed engine work in a few months time ( and that's far from certain) it represents good value. It's local to me and looks in good nick, Michael is an engineer so you can bet that it's been looked after.

michaelasaunders · February 16, 2011, 20:04

Thanks for that scothpie, I will buy you that expensive cappuccino tomorrow then s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Well chaps, I am sticking by what I have said, as I think its a fair statement to say, that if you buy a pre 2003 car there is a risk that your car will develop oval bore syndrome at some point in the lifetime of the engine. What the percentages are of it occuring, who knows.

QuoteI second that, i've done 5000 miles in mine and not had to top up with oil yet (touching large anounts of timber !!!)

Mike V, you acknowledge this risk too since you are touching wood s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · February 16, 2011, 20:22

Quote from: "michaelasaunders"Well chaps, I am sticking by what I have said, as I think its a fair statement to say, that if you buy a pre 2003 car there is a risk that your car will develop oval bore syndrome at some point in the lifetime of the engine. What the percentages are of it occuring, who knows.

A risk is a better statement. However the original post suggested ALL pre face lifts would either already have the problem or would eventually. This is not the case.

I have probably talked to a couple of dozen owners of pre face lifts over the last few years, none of whom knew ROC or pre cats/oval bores existed and none of whom have had a problem.

We see a higher than usual amount on ROC as a lot of people only find the forum because they have a problem.

Lets not make the issue sound more widespread than it is. It certainly does not affect all, or even the majority of pre face lift cars.

Mike_V · February 16, 2011, 21:10

QuoteA risk is a better statement. However the original post suggested ALL pre face lifts would either already have the problem or would eventually. This is not the case.

I have probably talked to a couple of dozen owners of pre face lifts over the last few years, none of whom knew ROC or pre cats/oval bores existed and none of whom have had a problem.

We see a higher than usual amount on ROC as a lot of people only find the forum because they have a problem.

Lets not make the issue sound more widespread than it is. It certainly does not affect all, or even the majority of pre face lift cars.

+1

I will say that these cars have a "certain something" about them, so much so that my M3 is lurking in the background whilst my "2" receives all of my spare time and money, I find them addictive. s:D

s:D

Anonymous · February 16, 2011, 21:23

Well this is turning into a very interesting discussion, and I'm learning lots too, but now I am a little worried about getting a dodgy engine. I seem to have a track record choosing cars that turn into needing work, it's the same when I get in a queue at a supermarket - NEVER get behind me, cos you can bet your bottom dollar the queue I've got into will get stuck and all of them next to me will be whizzing though!

Don of Croy · February 17, 2011, 13:54

The car you link to in Bridgend (Brackla?) - their description might be off as they mention 16" rear wheels, which, IIRC were only brought in on post facelift cars...unless someone has fitted later wheels...but what else might they have changed?

However, having sowed that seed, I've visited a few dealers in a recent search (for different cars) and found that few (if any) will know the car as well as you (or any enthusiast), but that they do generally make an effort to be 'starighter than straight'. I'm of an age when most dealers (including main dealers) were 'dodgy' and that stigma remains.

Nowadays the Sale of Goods Act and other improvements in communication make it less likely a bona fide business will knowingly 'do you'. If there are faults, or they become a problem within a short time, the Law is on your side and you can apply for redress. Unlike in a private sale (yes, you could try to sue them if they mislead but I would think proving it in court would be difficult at best).

Just use all the info on here to strengthen your hand. And enjoy your weekend of testing!

Stifler · February 17, 2011, 13:56

Hello,

Nelix makes some good points about the hard top, however, if you find the perfect car without one I wouldn't discount it (unless you live in a really rough area). My 2 lived outside in the north of Scotland with only a soft top and I never had any issues with the roof or water ingress (actually I did once, but that was becuase I hadn't cleared my drains in a year s:P

s:P )

Basically, the hard top is desirable and sell-able if you ever needed to. Just don't discount any cars that are without it.

All the best with the hunt s:)

s:)

Anonymous · February 17, 2011, 14:22

Thanks again for the continuing excellent advice. I've got a new question now, I've seen a '52' plate car that looks nice, appears to be new shape, but listed as cat D. Price is £3500. Should this concern me? I'm going to phone the guy this 'avo and see whta the info is specific to the loss.

Anonymous · February 17, 2011, 14:31

Cat D is very light damage, probably cosmetic only, I would want to see some evidence of precisely the damage was, and who did the repairs. Make sure you get a long test drive, and look closley at all of the bodywork gaps.

Cat D cars are a potential bargain if they have been repaired right, as there would have been no structural damage.

Anonymous · February 17, 2011, 15:03

Scotchpie, I've phoned them and they say they have no record of what the damage was and who repaired it. The previous owner bought it in 05, cat D was '04, they are trade...4 owners from new, too far just to pop over and take a look. If I pay for a full HPI check will it show anything more than just cat D? Is there any other way to get the info so I can be satified? This could potentially be the right car, no HT though, but that could come in the future.

Toplesscouple · February 17, 2011, 15:07

52 plate. Are you sure it's a facelift car? Ask if it has the 6 speed box. Still not an absolute, but that's probably the hardest part to swap over. If the repairs were cosmetic the repairers may well have used later panels, hence the new look.

Anonymous · February 17, 2011, 15:16

I have to confess I don't know how to tell the difference veyr well, it's all still new to me, but it is listed as a six-speed, it does have the new rear lights and the new front panel...is there anything else I should look for? Was the interior much different?

Toplesscouple · February 17, 2011, 15:38

Leather seat backs on early cars are solid whereas later cars have a hole about headrest height. Fabric seats I'm not sure of any difference. Early cars have a different radio with lots of buttons whereas later ones have a simpler cleaner design. Perhaps you could PM a mod with the ad details and he could give you his opinion, But I have to say that with all those indicators it does sound like a facelift car. Date of registration could be a pointer too.

Anonymous · February 17, 2011, 16:23

Take care with the cat D. I bought one earlier to break. The front chassis legs were toast. Dont forget that there was sufficient damage for the insurance company to write the car off. This means take the trade value, deduct the scrap value and other costs. If the repairs cost more than the difference, its a write off.
Its not a scratch n touch up.
Personnally, I would avoid. Go for low mileage first and foremost. Lower the better.
Google cat C and cat D.
Only my opinion though. Many people would never feel safe in a car at 135mph, which had been questionably repaired.

Anonymous · February 17, 2011, 17:18

I dont think the HPI check will come back with enough info, personally I would steer clear if you have no inducation of the damage; just because its passed an MOT does not mean its safe. I have had cat D and C cars in the past but only when i could see what the damage was.

I once put a Mini Cooper with a cracked subframe through an MOT in order to weigh up what other work the car needed, the garage did not pick up the damage and it sailed through the MOT without any advisories.

Treboeth · February 17, 2011, 18:00

If your stuck on the car in Bridgend why not get a South Wales member to look at it?

If there are no closer volunteers I might persuade my brother to pop up with me to have a look(he always checks my buys for me s:mrgreen: :mrgreen: s:mrgreen: )

markiii · February 17, 2011, 18:24

facelift cars came out in september 2002 so a 52 plate is technically possible

Anonymous · February 17, 2011, 18:59

I ran it through WBAC to see if it would give me any more info and it lists it as first registered 02/12/02 so that fits.

Anonymous · February 18, 2011, 19:07

m http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT m
If you are thinking about a good value fecelift car, but concerned about cat D, why not buy this one and have it properly repaired? Find parts here, or elsewhere as they will constitute the biggest part of the bill. A good body shop will put this back to near perfect, with no worry about dodgy repairs.

loadswine · February 19, 2011, 08:08

+1 on that VC. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Mark is spot on with the 52 plate info.In theory there is a 6 month window where a facelift 52 plate could have been registered. Having said that, there are some 52 plate prefacelifts about as well as you'd expect really.